| MesaBeige |
I have a 2001 Touring with Bose.
I have swapped the front and rear door speakers with Infinity 652's and removed the front door tweeters. I like it much better and do not have the boominess or low volumes others have reported. $150 for the speakers from millionbuy.com and $30 for the harnesses from Circuit City. Took me less than a half hour including mod's to the rear door rain baskets.
I know there have been lots of threads that include discussions about subwoofer replacement but they always seem to be somewhat less than specific and there have been many speakers mentioned.
I am looking to swap the speaker with a free air subwoofer but I do not want to do any modifications or add another amp. I just want a better speaker to start with. After that I would consider adding a filter so it only reproduces bass.
So.. has anyone replaced the Bose subwoofer without modifications. If so, what brand/ model subwoofer and was the swap worthwile.
Please - no theory - have you done it with the Bose system, is it a stock fit, how does it sound, and would you do it again?
Here is a partial list of all the speakers previously mentioned in other threads and info from their websites:
Boston Acoustics Pro Series 10.5LF (not free-air, 4-3/4", 2 and 4 ohm)
Image Dynamics sub (site does not specify free-air or depth)
JL Audio 10W6 (no JL free-air woofers)
PolkGNCDVC10 (GNX10DVC 4-13/16, free-air?, 2 and 4 ohm)
A/D/S 310rs2 - not free-air
Focal Polykevlar 27W -not free-air
Audiobahn 10cq DVC with a 100hz low pass filter (4 ohm, site does not specify free-air)
Pioneer TS-W28C (does not fit, too deep - magnet hits panel)
Pioneer TS-W2451DVC (not free air, 2 and 8 ohm, no depth specified)
kicker VR 10 - did not fit (top mount 5")
Kicker Comp c10 (4-9/16", 4 and 8 ohm)
Cerwin-Vega (4 and 8 ohms, site does not specify free-air or depth)
Xtant 10" Subwoofer (5.125, 4 ohm)
Thanks
MB- |
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| sstclairs |
Wow! You really did your homework! From my review of related posts, and discussions elsewhere, I can only help winnow the list. Boston Pro and A/D/S 310rs (or newer r10s) are NOT free air. I don't think the Focal is either.
Some that have done the simple swap, without building an enclosure, have suggested the Polk GNX10DVC, specifically because it is configurable for 2 ohms as well as 4. Back when I was considering these, I found this site selling for $69.95.
http://www.mmxpress.com/polk/polk.htm
Hope that helps! Have fun!
Steve |
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| TheyCallMeBruce |
quote:
Originally posted by MesaBeige
I have a 2001 Touring with Bose.
I have swapped the front and rear door speakers with Infinity 652's and removed the front door tweeters. I like it much better and do not have the boominess or low volumes others have reported. $150 for the speakers from millionbuy.com and $30 for the harnesses from Circuit City. Took me less than a half hour including mod's to the rear door rain baskets.
I know there have been lots of threads that include discussions about subwoofer replacement but they always seem to be somewhat less than specific and there have been many speakers mentioned.
I am looking to swap the speaker with a free air subwoofer but I do not want to do any modifications or add another amp. I just want a better speaker to start with. After that I would consider adding a filter so it only reproduces bass.
So.. has anyone replaced the Bose subwoofer without modifications. If so, what brand/ model subwoofer and was the swap worthwile.
Please - no theory - have you done it with the Bose system, is it a stock fit, how does it sound, and would you do it again?
Here is a partial list of all the speakers previously mentioned in other threads and info from their websites:
Boston Acoustics Pro Series 10.5LF (not free-air, 4-3/4", 2 and 4 ohm)
Image Dynamics sub (site does not specify free-air or depth)
JL Audio 10W6 (no JL free-air woofers)
PolkGNCDVC10 (GNX10DVC 4-13/16, free-air?, 2 and 4 ohm)
A/D/S 310rs2 - not free-air
Focal Polykevlar 27W -not free-air
Audiobahn 10cq DVC with a 100hz low pass filter (4 ohm, site does not specify free-air)
Pioneer TS-W28C (does not fit, too deep - magnet hits panel)
Pioneer TS-W2451DVC (not free air, 2 and 8 ohm, no depth specified)
kicker VR 10 - did not fit (top mount 5")
Kicker Comp c10 (4-9/16", 4 and 8 ohm)
Cerwin-Vega (4 and 8 ohms, site does not specify free-air or depth)
Xtant 10" Subwoofer (5.125, 4 ohm)
Thanks
MB-
You left out mine: SoundStream Generator 2 ohm. Free air. I used 3/4" spacer cut from mdf shelving board. I don't know if you call an adapter ring a modification, but its pretty basic install procedure. |
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| EXCALIBUR |
MesaBeige,
If you want to only replace the Bose subwoofer, you will get a marginal improvement. That is because you will rely on the Bose subwoofer amp to drive your aftermarket subwoofer. Seriously, take a look at the Bose subwoofer amp. It is no bigger than a deck of cards. Try replacing the Bose subwoofer first. If you can live with that and like the sound, then that is all you may want to do. As Tim Allen would say, "We need more power!":4: |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by EXCALIBUR
MesaBeige,
If you want to only replace the Bose subwoofer, you will get a marginal improvement. That is because you will rely on the Bose subwoofer amp to drive your aftermarket subwoofer. Seriously, take a look at the Bose subwoofer amp. It is no bigger than a deck of cards. Try replacing the Bose subwoofer first. If you can live with that and like the sound, then that is all you may want to do. As Tim Allen would say, "We need more power!":4:
That's a good analysis in a nutshell. I opted for the Polk GNX with a 100 Hz filter and there IS a difference. But a different amp would likely do wonders. More so for the sub.
For most listening I do in a car, I found the changeout of the door speakers more than adequate.
But for real impact closer to home theater performance, all the amps should be replaced and then the door speakers should be upgraded to component systems. |
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| MesaBeige |
quote:
Originally posted by TheyCallMeBruce
You left out mine: SoundStream Generator 2 ohm. Free air. I used 3/4" spacer cut from mdf shelving board. I don't know if you call an adapter ring a modification, but its pretty basic install procedure.
TheyCallMeBruce
The reason I left it out is because that model (any 2 ohm) is not listed on their site, nor does any search engine bring it up. Where can I get the info on it?
MB |
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| TheyCallMeBruce |
quote:
Originally posted by MesaBeige
TheyCallMeBruce
The reason I left it out is because that model (any 2 ohm) is not listed on their site, nor does any search engine bring it up. Where can I get the info on it?
MB
]
Slap me silly.
How could I have mixed up the names of my two favorite brands? Almost as bad as confusing your significant others' name with a previous name. Ouch.
I feel Soundstream makes killer amps, but mediocre subs and component sets.
Boston Acoustics is the maker of the Generator sub.
www.bostonacoustics.com
Sorry about the mix up. They are readily available in many outlets here in So. California so it was easy for me to audition a unit. Hopefully, you'd be able to find a local vendor that carries it so that you can check out the sound for yourself and ask some installers about their experiences with them, as compared to some of the other brands you are considering.
Good luck on your search. |
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| hondacuraworld |
| Another excellent place for audio components for car and home is www.partsexpress.com . I'm a regular customer :) |
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| MesaBeige |
quote:
Originally posted by TheyCallMeBruce
]
Slap me silly.
How could I have mixed up the names of my two favorite brands? Almost as bad as confusing your significant others' name with a previous name. Ouch.
I feel Soundstream makes killer amps, but mediocre subs and component sets.
Boston Acoustics is the maker of the Generator sub.
www.bostonacoustics.com
Sorry about the mix up. They are readily available in many outlets here in So. California so it was easy for me to audition a unit. Hopefully, you'd be able to find a local vendor that carries it so that you can check out the sound for yourself and ask some installers about their experiences with them, as compared to some of the other brands you are considering.
Good luck on your search.
Thanks. BTW, every site I have seen on the BA speaker recommends an enclosure rather than free-air. Did you put in some sort of enclosure?
MB |
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| TheyCallMeBruce |
quote:
Originally posted by MesaBeige
Thanks. BTW, every site I have seen on the BA speaker recommends an enclosure rather than free-air. Did you put in some sort of enclosure?
MB
All subs sound better in an enclosure, assuming the enclosure design is appropriate. This is why you will never see free-air mounted subwoofers in car audio competitions. Because manufacturers want installers to get the best sound out of their subs, they will never recommend free-air mounting over using an enclosure. The questions is: if you choose to go free-air to avoid the costs of a custom fiberglass bulb in you quarter panel and also upgrading the sub amp to handle the higher power needs of a sealed design, does the sub have the parameters to accommodate it? The reason I bought this sub was that the specs I read indicated it was very versatile, would work in a small vented, or medium sized sealed enclosure, as well as free-air.
I have the generator sub in a sealed enclosure packaged as a unit by Boston Acoustics in my Mazda Millenia. I use the same size and ohm rated Generator sub as a free-air design in the MDX. The enclosed model is slightly tighter and sharper, but hard to tell unless you crank it up really loud with a very strong (and large) amplifier.
I've had a few dozen subs in my time - from 8" to 15", in enclosures as small as .29 cu ft, and as large as 7 or 8 cu ft for a pair, and at one point a bank of 8s for upper bass, 12s for mid, and the 15 for sub-bass, each type with its own dedicated array of amps, pulling 130amps. Those days are gone, I'm a simple-sub guy now. Still, I'm very satisfied with the performance of these Generators. I'm not pushing these over any other. There are a many good subs around, I'm just saying they happen to work well for me in the MDX with very little custom work and without having to use a powerful amp. |
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| Consultant |
| I expect the recommended Polk GNX to arrive shortly. Is it a "drop in" or do I need harness connectors, holes to be drilled, etc.? I'd like to have everything ready before I begin the disassembly. Is it worth adding a 100 Hz filter? |
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| TYP |
Free air?..
what does it mean free air or not free air?..
Sorry I am a newbie in this..;) |
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| sstclairs |
You can probably get a much better explanation from one of the more knowledgeable members of this forum (?TheyCallMeBruce).
Subwoofers (and all speakers) move air. The low frequency sounds that the subwoofers are reproducing create soundwaves that can cancel each other out, depending on whether they are bouncing off other surfaces (such as an enclosure). Although all subwoofers sound better if enclosed, some are designed to sound "less bad" if they are not enclosed (i.e., free air).
Since enclosures cost money and take up space, it is cheaper to use a subwoofer without an enclosure. As is always the case, the tradeoff is poorer sound quality. It is always a subjective and individual decision whether the tradeoff in sound quality is worth the savings by not enclosing the subwoofer. Enclosures built into the factory location appear to run $200-$300 (usually fiberglass); box enclosures are cheaper but take up space.
I hope that helps.
Steve |
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| TYP |
Ah..
I got it now.
Same idea for the home systems..right?
Hum.. where's the sub for the x again!?.. LOL
All these options are making me dizzy.. and yet still have to find more $$...
Sigh..
So little $$ so much stuff..
:1: |
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| R Stevens |
| There is another issue here besides sound quality when deciding to enclose a sub or not. My sub, the Boston Pro 10.5 LF, must be in a sealed enclosure, otherwise it will literally self destruct when in operation. |
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| Consultant |
| The Polk GNX subwoofer arrived. I haven't heard anyone else discussing filters. Do I need the 100 Mz? My guess is that Infinities could use a little boost without it. Will the factory connectors fit or do I need an adapter. (I'd prefer not to splice if possible.) |
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| phins2rt |
| You can always put the filters in at a later date if you don't like the sound. I have a 140 hz filter on the factory sub and it is amazing how much is filtered out. I still need to get a Polk sub and make the switch, though. I am still trying to figure out which front speakers to go with. |
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| TYP |
After reading all the good stuff..
I went and talk to a local shop..
They told me that the "signal" from the Bose
is not as good as other they sell.. and if I want
to change the set up, I'd better change the
head unit too, other wise it would be a waste
of $$???
How's that working out?..
Is the Bose really that bad?...
:eek: :( :1: |
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| tnguyenmdc |
| They're semi-correct about the signal output from the Bose. I don't think there's such thing as 'bad output signal', however, when you input the signal from the Bose head unit into an amplifier, you do have to turn the gain on the amp almost all the way up (different voltage, resistance, etc??). So there's a chance that if you have to turn the gain up so high, you would encounter unwanted noise and/or distortion. |
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| EXCALIBUR |
quote:
Originally posted by TYP
After reading all the good stuff..
I went and talk to a local shop..
They told me that the "signal" from the Bose
is not as good as other they sell.. and if I want
to change the set up, I'd better change the
head unit too, other wise it would be a waste
of $$???
How's that working out?..
Is the Bose really that bad?...
:eek: :( :1:
I am running the Bose headunit with my aftermarket stereo system. It is quite adequate. It sounds (pun intended) more like your local shop is pushing to sell you an aftermarket headunit. Try another reputable shop and get another opinion. Good luck. |
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| sstclairs |
Originally posted by TYP
After reading all the good stuff..
I went and talk to a local shop..
They told me that the "signal" from the Bose
is not as good as other they sell.. and if I want
to change the set up, I'd better change the
head unit too, other wise it would be a waste
of $$???
How's that working out?..
Is the Bose really that bad?...
As with all these issues, just how much difference the headunit may make is open to subjective interpretation. Absent a reason to keep the OEM headunit - such as integration with the NAV or RES system - I would probably swap it out, as there are lots of headunits out there with much better feature sets, better looking, etc.
If sound quality is the only issue, the headunit is probably the last piece of equipment to be upgraded (speakers clearly 1st, amp clearly 2nd, then headunit). Lots of users of this forum have been VERY happy with audio upgrades that kept the OEM headunit.
My final install - amps and subwoofer - is this Friday. With the factory NAV & RES, I don't think headunit swapping is an option. All to do over, I might have foregone these and done everything custom, but I expect to be quite pleased - for many years to come - with my X as configured and upgraded.
Steve |
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| MesaBeige |
I have replaced all four door speakers with Infininty 625's and disconnected the front pillar tweeters. Big improvement (sad that $170 improved the sound so much).
But..... subwoofer was still disappointing. So..
Step 1 - I installed a filter and now I get get bass response. Good but very very low volume, even when bass is turned all the way up. So....
Step 2 - installed a POLK GNX in the factory space. Would have fit without a spacer but existing MDX mounting ring is not large enough to support the sub so a combo spacer and mounting ring works best. Now I get a cleaner, more distinct, very very low volume bass sound even when the bass is turned all the way up. So...
Step 3 will be installing a separate amp to drive the sub.
Step 4 will be building a small custom enclosure for the sub in the existing factory space.
Step 5 will probably be to replace the overhead rear tweeter - sounds way too tinny.
thanks for all the help!!!! :D
MB- |
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| Consultant |
MesaBeige
I'm very interested in your findings since I'll have nearly the same setup. The Polk sub arrived and the Infinities are on the way. It seems that the sub does not "drop in". Where did you get the spacer ring to attach the Polk? Do the wires clip on or did you use a harness adapter? I assume you kept the filter on, which reduces the bass volume. I'm also thinking of amping. However, a 5 channel may be the way to go. Otherwise, I'd like to minimize the wiring by replacing the sub amp with a small, but more powerful, unit at the same location. |
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| Consultant |
Further to my previous post, I found a sub amp that is both powerful and described as "small". I wonder if this can be "dropped in" as a quick and easy replacement to the OEM. The price seems good too.
http://www.sounddomain.com/sku/ROC200M |
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| MesaBeige |
quote:
Originally posted by Consultant
MesaBeige
I'm very interested in your findings since I'll have nearly the same setup. The Polk sub arrived and the Infinities are on the way. It seems that the sub does not "drop in". Where did you get the spacer ring to attach the Polk? Do the wires clip on or did you use a harness adapter? I assume you kept the filter on, which reduces the bass volume. I'm also thinking of amping. However, a 5 channel may be the way to go. Otherwise, I'd like to minimize the wiring by replacing the sub amp with a small, but more powerful, unit at the same location.
The wires clip on - no harness change needed.
I made the adapter out of plexiglass and drilled the screw holes using the Polk supplied template and a template I created for the factory ring (lots of measurements and trial fitting needed to get it right).
I won't be doing the sub for a few weeks so keep us updated if you pull ahead.
thx
MB- |
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| TYP |
What might be the best amp if I change the sub to A/D/S R10s ?.. does it fit?
:confused: |
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| sstclairs |
"What might be the best amp if I change the sub to A/D/S R10s ?.. does it fit?"
The A/D/S r10s does fit, but may need something other than the stock grill. My installers added a custom grill. Looks gorgeous - better than factory (pics may follow at some point).
I am using an Xtant A6001 - rated at 300 watts for 4 ohms - which appears to be enough power. Could probably have gotten by with less power, although the r10s can certainly handle it, and may need it (I just picked it up tonite - I haven't played with the gain, etc.). Xtant A-series amps offer a remote bass control (RLC - remote level control), which I have already found very useful - allows specific control of the subwoofer contribution/volume.
I bought my A6001 on eBay with no problems. My installers tell me that the A3001 - rated at 150 watts for 4 ohms - has had some significant problems, but they have seen few problems with the A6001.
Hope that helps.
Steve |
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| MDX Moto |
Steve,
I am looking at the a/d/s/ r10 sub. The shop/dealer for a/d/s is telling me I need a custome enclosure...to the tune of 400-500 dollars. How does yours sound with out the enclosure? |
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| sstclairs |
I paid about $200 for my enclosure. It sounds very good, but honestly I don't know what to expect from a subwoofer as I have never had one before.
In my entire install - Focal speakers, PPI amp, A/D/S sub and Xtant amp - the subwoofer is the only part that I am not sure was worth what I spent on it ($165 for the sub, $190 for the amp, $200 for the enclosure, $175 for the amp install - $730 total). Doing over, I probably would have used a single 5 channel amp and used a free-air subwoofer, or just done without the enclosure.
Keep in mind, I'm not a great judge of the subwoofer. Overall, I am extremely pleased with my whole system.
Hope that helps.
Steve |
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