| Suit claims automakers, dealers conspired to stop Canadian imports
- Click HERE for Original Thread
|
| crikey |
Found this article on Edmund's:
Suit claims automakers, dealers conspired to stop Canadian imports
JOHN PORRETTO
Associated Press
DETROIT - Antitrust lawsuits filed in several states claim that top automakers have conspired since at least 2001 to prevent U.S. consumers from buying new vehicles in Canada, where prices can be 30 percent less.
Complaints have been filed in recent days in Massachusetts, California, Illinois and New York. Attorneys eventually hope to receive class-action status.
The suits claim automakers and dealers have tried to hinder U.S. residents from buying vehicles across the northern border by refusing to honor warranties in the United States, among other measures.
The complaints say some automakers have taken punitive action against Canadian dealers who have sold vehicles to U.S. consumers.
"Talk about sticker shock: Carmakers have rigged the deck to make U.S. consumers pay thousands of dollars more per vehicle than Canadians for virtually the same car," said Joseph J. Tabacco Jr., a Boston attorney involved in the filings.
Named as defendants are General Motors Corp. and its Canadian subsidiary; Ford Motor Co. and its Canadian subsidiary; Toyota Motor Corp. and its U.S. subsidiary; Honda Motor Co. and its U.S. subsidiary; DaimlerChrysler AG and its Canadian subsidiary; Nissan Motor Co. and its U.S. and Canadian subsidiaries; and BMW and its U.S. subsidiary.
Also named are Canadian and U.S. automobile dealers associations. U.S. and Canadian franchise dealerships for manufacturers named in the suits are cited as unnamed coconspirators.
General Motors, the world's largest automaker, said the allegations in the suits were without merit.
In a statement, No. 2 Ford said it was in full compliance with the law and that the cases were "egregious examples of abusive class-action litigation and unlawful forum shopping by class-action lawyers."
"Pricing varies by regions and markets around the world, based on different content, marketing strategies and the competitive environment," Ford said.
A statement from Tabacco's firm said Canadian dealers pay manufacturers 10 percent to 30 percent less for cars than their U.S. counterparts. The Canadian dollar is weaker than the U.S. dollar, and Canadians pay higher taxes than their U.S. neighbors.
The complaints claim the conspiracy permitted manufacturers to maintain higher prices on virtually every vehicle sold in the United States compared with prices of the same vehicles in Canada.
The suits claim that manufacturers also conspired to block Canadian imports to the United States even though Canadian cars were, for all practical purposes, identical and conformed to U.S. regulations.
I hope the automakers and dealership organizations get penalized for this. This will be interesting to follow. |
|
|
| walrus104 |
When I ordered my MDX, I indicated that I was going to pay cash.
The dealer responded by saying I had to take a loan for part of the invoice. When I objected, the dealer indicated he would reimburse one month's interest.
This was required so that the dealer could indicate to Acura some diligence in ensuring that the buyer would not take the MDX to the US for reselling.
On delivery of the MDX, had to sign a document where I agrred not to sell my vehicle in the US for 1 year.
If it was not for the fact that I really wanted the X, I would have purchased something else!!
You have noted that some MDX were offered on Ebay as canadian models.
Acura apparently fines dealers who "helped" in shipping MDX to the US.
Those dealers get a fine and see their allocation of new MDX reduced. |
|
|
| marktr6 |
I have recently starting purchasing my prescription drugs from Canada. I can save about 30-40% for the exact same drugs from the exact same manufacturers. It arrives by Canada Post to my door. Too bad we can't buy our MDX's the same way.
I'd like to see the drug companies and the car manufacturers have to deal equally with USA and/or Canada. |
|
|
| crikey |
Aren't these manufacturer policies/penalties against NAFTA?
Shouldn't a US resident be able to buy merchandise from Canada and vice versa without having to be subjected to these penalties in the form of non-coverage of warranty, etc.?
I, for one, want these policies overturned/removed. IMO, whatever it is that benefits the consumer is the right thing. Why are the same cars sold cheaper by manufacturers to Canadian dealers? Is it because Canadian residents pay more taxes and generally have a higher standard of living? And because of this, US residents have to subsidize those costs by having the same manufacturers sell the same vehicles to US dealerships at a higher cost? I think cross-border car-buying should be allowed with FULL warranty coverage OR make car prices the same or very similar between the US and Canada. |
|
|
| N_Jay |
Its because Canada has less lawers and therefor litagation reserves are kept down.
Or maybe Canada has different laws with rtegard to Warrenty.
Or maybe its because we live in a free market society where a manufacturer can decide how he wants to price and position his product to capture the share of market hewants at a margin that allows continued success.
Stop whining!!! |
|
|
| BlueStreak |
Did you read the drug companies are getting in on this as well? They are going to stop deliveries to Canadian companies who ship over the boarder. You're right - it is cheaper in Canada, but the drug companies are trying to protect their profits just like the car companies.
The drug companies really kill me. Stop giving the pills away, lower your marketing cost, and the price of drugs will be a lot less. My bro-in-law, an ortho doc, has viagra samples to give away. What does an ortho doc need viagra samples for? And the weeks of golf at Pinehurst #2.....
I hope the whole damn bunch of them gets the screws put to them.
-Greg
03 SS/Quartz/Nav/Res |
|
|
| xcel |
Hi All:
___Its about time :3:
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
|
|
| N_Jay |
Lets make some crazy assumptions.
Lets assume 10% of the MDX production goes to Canada (I am fairly confident that is high, Right?)
Lets assume that the US MDX is 1% more expensive. (Way low, right?)
Lets assume all costs are the same.
Lets assume the Acura sells both US and Canadian models at about the same reletive rate, and sells out both models.
So for every $1 we save, they have to raise the price of the Canadian model $9!
So for us to get a 1% savings (~$400), the Canadian model would have to be increased ~$3600 US, or over $5000 CD! (Ouch)
Now at that new price they would sell less Canadian models, so maybe They only get 8% of production.
So for each $1 we save the price of the Canadian model needs to be increased $12.50!
So being as it is best for all of us for Honda/Acura to remain a strong company so they have the resources required to design and build the vehicals we love, it would be best for us to just mellow out a bit on this issue.
(Stepping off my soap box)
:D |
|
|
| marktr6 |
I know what you mean about the perks the drug companies offer. My wife's cousin is a drug company rep in Florida. She gives away all kinds of stuff and trades other reps for stuff she wants to give other people.......like me. I am Type 2 diabetic and take 3 different drugs. Her company manufacturers only one. She has a $25,000 yearly entertainment budget and gets fussed at if she doesn't use it all and ask for more.
As for the Viagra samples you bro-in-law gets, the samples are given to almost all docs. This way they all can give samples to all their interested patients and hopefully write scripts. Pfizer doesn't want to miss any chance to promote. With your bro-in-law being in Ortho, think of the older men he sees who might have a need for Viagra. A six pack of samples is worth about $50 retail. |
|
|
| scoobs |
| If this suit is successful it will result only in increased prices in Canada, not lowered prices in the U.S. . Thanks for nothing. |
|
|
| scoobs |
The price differential between vehicles sold in Canada and those sold in the U.S. is nothing more than the simple economic theory of supply and demand. If vehicles were priced in Canada at rates comparable to the U.S. rates the vehicles would not sell. Canada has a lower standard of living than the US, not higher. If you want to understand the Canadian vehicle market look up stats on the best selling vehicle in Canada vs. the U.S. . Check out the market share of the different types of vehicles Canada/U.S.. Also look at the average vehicle age Canada/U.S..
I live just outside Oshawa, Ontario, the site of General Motors largest manufacturing facility. They build Chev and GMC trucks, Buick Regal, Buick Century, Pontiac Grand Prix, Chevrolet Impala, and Chevrolet Monte Carlo. Almost all of the production goes to the U.S.. If you see anyone driving around town in one of these vehicles chances are that they work at GM and get an employee discount. Few other "regular working people" can afford to buy these vehicles new. |
|
|
| crikey |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Or maybe its because we live in a free market society where a manufacturer can decide how he wants to price and position his product to capture the share of market hewants at a margin that allows continued success.
Stop whining!!!
That's exactly the point, US and Canadian residents live in a free-market society. How come it should only benefit manufacturers and not consumers? If a manufacturer is free to price and position a product, then a consumer should be free to buy a product anywhere the product is sold without any penalties since a manufacturer is not being penalized for freely pricing and positioning said product. Your analogy is flawed.
And it's a free country so anyone can whine as much as they want especially if one is getting screwed over. |
|
|
| crikey |
quote:
Originally posted by scoobs
If this suit is successful it will result only in increased prices in Canada, not lowered prices in the U.S. . Thanks for nothing.
Who said it couldn't go the other way? So, car manufacturers will price themselves out of an entire market to resolve the issue? I think it would be the opposite. If prices were to be hypothetically adjusted, I think the median price between the two countries will be taken, an increase in price in Canada and a decrease in price in the US. Or at least, allow US residents to come to Canada and buy the vehicles there. This will bring money into the Canadian economy, so it should benefit Canadians. It will, however, have a detrimental effect on US economy depending on the volume. This is why US dealerships are up in arms about cross-border car-buying. |
|
|
| crikey |
quote:
Originally posted by scoobs
The price differential between vehicles sold in Canada and those sold in the U.S. is nothing more than the simple economic theory of supply and demand. If vehicles were priced in Canada at rates comparable to the U.S. rates the vehicles would not sell. Canada has a lower standard of living than the US, not higher. If you want to understand the Canadian vehicle market look up stats on the best selling vehicle in Canada vs. the U.S. . Check out the market share of the different types of vehicles Canada/U.S.. Also look at the average vehicle age Canada/U.S..
I live just outside Oshawa, Ontario, the site of General Motors largest manufacturing facility. They build Chev and GMC trucks, Buick Regal, Buick Century, Pontiac Grand Prix, Chevrolet Impala, and Chevrolet Monte Carlo. Almost all of the production goes to the U.S.. If you see anyone driving around town in one of these vehicles chances are that they work at GM and get an employee discount. Few other "regular working people" can afford to buy these vehicles new.
I understand the Canadian vehicle market pretty well -- I am Canadian. I used to live in lovely TO and still frequent every year.
I understand that a Canadian buys a car without knowing the invoice price of a vehicle since it is not privileged information. I understand that one has to pay a 15% sales tax on top of GAS, TIRE, and AIR Tax, i.e. a tax on a tax.
In my case, Canada has a higher standard of living since it is more expensive for me to live in Canada than it is for me to live in Florida. Manufacturers provide less supply to Canada since the population is much lower in comparison to the US. If all the vehicles produced at the Oshawa plant can be bought by Canadians, GM would be happy to sell all of them to Canadians. But that is not the case. The average vehicle age in Canada is no worse than those US regions with the same climate, e.g. Buffalo, NY. |
|
|
| crikey |
quote:
Originally posted by marktr6
I have recently starting purchasing my prescription drugs from Canada. I can save about 30-40% for the exact same drugs from the exact same manufacturers. It arrives by Canada Post to my door. Too bad we can't buy our MDX's the same way.
I'd like to see the drug companies and the car manufacturers have to deal equally with USA and/or Canada.
marktr6, it's funny you mentioned this. A local station did a story on this exact same issue. There is now a store at a local mall that processes Canadian prescription orders. See http://www.canadianprescriptions.com. |
|
|
| N_Jay |
quote:
Originally posted by crikey
That's exactly the point, US and Canadian residents live in a free-market society. How come it should only benefit manufacturers and not consumers? If a manufacturer is free to price and position a product, then a consumer should be free to buy a product anywhere the product is sold without any penalties since a manufacturer is not being penalized for freely pricing and positioning said product. Your analogy is flawed.
And it's a free country so anyone can whine as much as they want especially if one is getting screwed over.
Yep, That is the point. The manufacturers are free to sell the vehicles in different markets with different prices and different conditions.
And the consumer is free to buy the vehical under the conditions of the offer. (Warrenty restrictions, etc.) |
|
|
| crikey |
quote:
Originally posted by N_Jay
Yep, That is the point. The manufacturers are free to sell the vehicles in different markets with different prices and different conditions.
And the consumer is free to buy the vehical under the conditions of the offer. (Warrenty restrictions, etc.)
These so-called warranty restrictions were only added after more people started cross-border car-shopping. It does not have any bearing on the performance of the vehicle for which warranties were initially created for.
I'll give you a possible loophole on these warranty restrictions. Say a Canadian goes on vacation in the US driving his/her Canadian-spec Acura MDX. Now, for one reason or another, this Canadian individual required Acura Roadside Assistance (probable but may not be likely). AFAIK, Canadian Acura Roadside Assistance covers the entire North America. Then, the MDX gets looked at by a service department of an Acura dealership and makes an assessment that requires warranty fixes to get the Canadian customer on his/her way. Would the Acura dealership balk at fixing it since the Canadian-spec MDX is not covered by US Acura warranty? The answer is NO, the US Acura dealership will fix the Canadian-spec MDX and have the customer on their way.
Now, every Canada-spec MDX has a similar roadside assistance coverage. So, if one buys a Canada-spec MDX, similar warranty coverage should apply. |
|
|
| crikey |
| This provides resources to obtain invoice prices for a fee. They also include a formula to get an idea of how much invoice prices would be. Looks like a good resource. |
|
|
| xcel |
Hi All:
___Not to take the thread off track but since the X is almost $7,000 dollars less in Canada than here; I only wish the NAFTA agreement was held up with free trade across the three borders for consumers instead of just manufacturers. It is very simple … We all should be able to legally go where we want to legally purchase what we want. The NAFTA agreement gave the large manufacturing entities the ability to trade across the 3 borders tariff and hassle free so why not the consumer? Honda/Acura should have its @$$ handed to them for this $7,000 discrepancy and forcing the Canadian dealers to abide with allotment cuts if they don’t go along with this is in my eyes, illegal.
___Once again, who here wouldn’t fly/drive/bike/walk to a Canadian dealer for a $7,000 savings on an X? My guess is everyone would so Honda/Acura, wake up and smell the roses. If you want to manufacture in a country where labor costs are ~ 30% less with the NAFTA rules in place, we should have the right to purchase what we want in Canada with the same NAFTA rules in place irregardless of what Honda/Acura thinks a dealer just 300 miles to the Northeast of me should be selling the X for vs. the dealer down the road or 3000 miles across the country but still in the United States!
___I will leave the podium for someone else to rant now ;)
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
|
|
| N_Jay |
Nafta is about Tarrifs by governments, not pricing freedom by companies.
You do have the right to go and biuy a canadian MDX, and Acura of Canada has the right to ask you to have it serviced at Acura of Canada dealers.
They also have the right to place restrictions on their francises. Just as McDonalds can insist that a Big Mac be made a certain way.
A free market is just that. They are free to charge what the market will pay, and you are free to buy elsewhere.
PLEASE, stop asking the Government to fix the minor problems with the free market, as they have a history of making big problems out of small fixes!
How do you think all the tarriff issues that NAFTA had to address got started. |
|
|
| xcel |
Hi N_Jay:
___Unfortunately I cannot go and buy an X from a Canadian Acura dealer because of Honda/Acura’s strong arm tactics … I would have gladly given up the warranty for the $7K in savings. Believe me, I tried :3:
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
|
|
| MichaelLjung |
I have read this thread with great interest, as I was hoping to buy in Canada.
I have documented some key considerations to buying in Canada, in some cases summarizing what has already been written in this forum. (Make sure to validate any information below before rushing to Canada to buy.)
FEASIBILITY
Wayne mentioned that "Unfortunately I cannot go and buy an X from a Canadian Acura dealer because of Honda/Acura’s strong arm tactics … I would have gladly given up the warranty for the $7K in savings. Believe me, I tried."
I would've expected to be able to find a dealership that would sell. Wayne, what was the hang-up?
PRICE
Wayne's post mentions a $7K (presumably USD) price differential. I found a similarly high difference; www.acura.ca lists an MSRP of $50,750 CAN (includes freight) compared to US MSRP of $38,800 USD. The CAN MDX apparently only comes in a touring model, although it wasn't labeled as such on the site.
Assuming MSRP is the market price, the difference is $5,400 USD. So where did you get $7K from, Wayne -- I'm going shopping with you!
GETTING THE CAR HOME
Obviously depends on location; not an issue for me in Chicago.
WARRANTY
(1) Do the warranty issues in the linked articles (Yahoo, Toronto Star) affect Acura as well? The articles mention Honda; does anyone know of actual issues with Acura. Anyone have documentation from a Canadian warranty?
(2) I have been considering an extended warranty. Need to investigate if such a warranty covers repairs during the manufacturer's original warranty period, if Acura won't pay for US repair work. Anyone know anything about this, do share...
CANADIAN TAXES
There are many useful links, including
http://www.ccra-adrc.gc.ca/tax/nonr....html#P205_8111
http://www.ccra-adrc.gc.ca/E/pub/tg.../rc4031-02e.pdf
http://freespace.virgin.net/john.cl...taxes/index.htm
According to these sites, if the car is bought in Quebec, Manitoba, New Brunswick, Newfoundland (including Labrador), Nova Scotia, Alberta, Northwest Territories, or Yukon, you will get back your GST/PST or HST.
Are there other Canadian taxes (someone mentioned an AIR tax)?
CUSTOMS DUTIES
For bringing it back into the U.S., see the following for duty information,
http://www.customs.gov/ImageCache/c...portingacar.doc
http://dataweb.usitc.gov/SCRIPTS/tariff/0301c87.pdf
http://dataweb.usitc.gov/SCRIPTS/tariff/0301gn.pdf.
Together, these seem to suggest that duty will either be 2.5% or 0%, depending on some NAFTA legalese I need to read through. This needs further investigation. (You get to avoid the first $400/person and the first $1,000 that is dutiable may be taxed at 10% regardless.)
STATE USE TAXES
I hail from Illinois, and when you register a car in Illinois you have to pay use tax. (See http://www.sos.state.il.us/departme...les/apply.html.)
Presumably it's like this in other states. Basically, IL taxes me as if I bought the new car in state. That's fine; I would've paid such taxes if I bought the car here anyway. The relevant IL form for vehicle use tax (IL RUT-25) gives credit for tax paid elsewhere. I wonder if the 2.5% customs duty (if necessary) counts as a partial credit. Any tax experts?
CAR DIFFERENCES
o Mileage in KM. Presumably a dealer can fix that.
o Emissions? Seems to be roughly the same car.
o Green tint. The acura Canada site mentioned something about green tint on the windows. Don't know if US cars have the same, but I can live with that.
Other differences?
FINANCING
The rates shown on www.acura.ca were 6.8%. Ouch! You can get 4.9% from Acura dealers in Chicago. I am looking into other loan sources, such as www.peoplefirst.com. Seems to have pretty good rates.
PAPERWORK HASSLE
Not an issue for me, but may be a consideration for some.
INSURANCE
Any gotchas here? Cannot imagine so...
Thanks all for your thoughts, corrections, addendum.... |
|
|
| xcel |
Hi MichaelLjung:quote:
I would've expected to be able to find a dealership that would sell. Wayne, what was the hang-up?
___I believe I have explained this previously. The Canadian Acura dealers would have had their allotments cut if they were to sell an X to an American citizen. I called 5 Canadian dealers and received the same story or less each and every time. If you don’t believe me, you can use the Canadian Acura site for the location and phone numbers of any Canadian dealers you want to call for yourself. Here is the link to those Acura dealerships listed in the Ontario Province and I implore you to get on the phone and begin your own leg work. The no-sale to American citizen policy is still in force as far as I know.quote:
Wayne's post mentions a $7K (presumably USD) price differential. I found a similarly high difference; www.acura.ca lists an MSRP of $50,750 CAN (includes freight) compared to US MSRP of $38,800 USD. The CAN MDX apparently only comes in a touring model, although it wasn't labeled as such on the site.
Assuming MSRP is the market price, the difference is $5,400 USD. So where did you get $7K from, Wayne -- I'm going shopping with you!
___When I was searching for a Canadian X from a Canadian dealer, the Canadian to US Dollar exchange rate was ~ .62. You can use X-Rates.com for your own review of exchange rates of the recent past. The 02 Canadian X was I believe $48,950 vs. an American purchased 02 Touring’s $37,800 at the time. Do the math … It comes to > $7,000! No matter, I tried to always state an ~ $7,000 USD difference in my posts of the last 6 months when discussing this topic.
___As for the rest of it, you will receive a rebate of the Canadian based VAT? taxes expended on the Canadian purchased X but I am not sure if you will receive the full amount? You will also pay the full Il. tax when registering as you already know.
___Finally, the speedometer will have to be changed to an English unit model and this can be done at any number of Canadian car repair shops. I don’t believe a Canadian Acura dealership will do this for you however. The ULEV/ULEV-II status will get you across the border as well since the engines are identical but you did need some kind of compliance certificate from Honda/Acura for customs to allow the X to pass without any trouble … At least that was the case when I was looking into it last year.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
|
|
| crikey |
MichaelLjung, I think that it has been adapted into policy that Canadian dealerships are not allowed to sell vehicles to US residents. Even Canadian residents like walrus104 have been asked to sign a document stating non-sale of vehicle to the US market for at least a year.
Regarding warranty, American Honda has stated that it will not honor the Canadian warranty on a Canada-spec MDX. Or for that matter, any vehicle bought in Canada and brought to the US. However, I gave an example of a possible loophole that might be a YMMV situation.
For US residents, the GST will be refunded. I'm not sure about the duties. And yes, when the vehicle is registered, state sales tax will apply. :(
If you can live with the KM/H speedo, I would just keep it. I think it's going to cost about $400 to have it changed.
Back in 1998 when I moved to the US, I brought with me an Acura 1.6EL. This car is only sold in Canada, it's not available in the US. I had to get a document from American Honda that states that it complies with American EPA Standards (it does). The car was placed in an 18-wheeler with all of our belongings and the document was used by the shipper to bring the car in. I did not have to pay duty since I was considered immigrating to the US at that time. I did not get GST refunded since I was considered a Canadian resident. When I registered the vehicle in FL, I had to pay the state sales tax. I did not bother to change the speedo/odo gauge cluster since I'm used to converting from KM/H to MPH. I still own the car and I use it as my daily driver.
The Acura dealerships in my area never gave me grief about warranty claims since they honored my Canadian Acura warranty. That's saying a lot since US Acura dealerships don't really work on the ELs. I guess it depends on the service department of the Acura dealerships. Actually, I recently had a recall on the car -- the ignition switch issue which the Accords and TL/CL also had. And they fixed it without even considering whether they can get the claim processed.
I'm not saying that this is what they will do for me on a Canada-spec MDX but this is what they have done for me so far. |
|
|
| MichaelLjung |
Thanks for the comments thus far.
Yes, this appears to have been adopted as formal policy by a variety of manufacturers. Besides refusing warranties in the U.S., the lawsuit mentions export blacklists, dealer fines, dealer's refusal to convert from KM to Miles, forcing consumers to sign non-export agreements with penalties, etc.
Link to the official complaint, for those who are interested:
http://www.bermanesq.com/pdf/canadi...r_complaint.pdf
Interestingly, the class action suit was filed on behalf of those who purchased a car in the U.S. and were subject to unfair price competition. (I.e. lots of people, for billions of dollars.) I would've thought the suit would also name those who had actually bought a Canadian vehicle, but who were denied warranty coverage in the U.S. |
|
|
| xcel |
Hi MichaelLjung:
___Thank you for the link.
___I wish Cathy Ann the best in her suit. It is not frivolous in my eyes given my own experiences when attempting to purchase an X from multiple Canadian based Acura dealers. Although I don’t know what she will gain, I am happy she is going forth with the suit for the benefit of not only future X owners but possibly any future Canadian purchased American automobile owner …
___I really like the X for all the reasons everyone here has discussed in painstaking detail but I do not like to see manufacturing collusion at the expense of a group of citizens including those of the United States. I may be a bit naïve since I am sure there is similar activity in most every country with an interest to protect but at least someone is standing up for the every day citizen in this case. The Automobile manufacturers have been in contact with one another and have made back room deals through NADA/CADA and this has got to stop immediately … I can only hope.
___Good Luck and thank you again.
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
|
|
| crikey |
| Interesting reading. |
|
|
| MichaelLjung |
I wanted to update the group with my latest findings, after many phone calls:
(1) I believe this can be done; I found a salesperson in the Quebec province who was more than willing, who worked for Acura a number of years, and who just sold two recently to Americans.
(2) If you might do this, then definitely call customs to make sure you arrange for the right paperwork. You will need documentation for DOT and other government organizations to get the car into the US. (At the very least, to import it without duty.)
(3) I validated that US custom duty on this car should be $0.
(4) You may have to have the speedo changed in Canada before entering the US (look into the DOT safety regulations; I didn't dive deeper). The Acura dealer I spoke with had a local repair shop that could do it for $500 CAN.
(5) If you want an extended warranty, a few Internet providers will do it. Call around. You just need to make it clear that you are buying from Canada, that it's a "grey" market vehicle without the manufacturer's warranty. one of the warranty providers (I don't remember which one) charged only an additional $500 over their normal, bumper-to-bumper, 7/100 extended warranty for the grey market factor. That was a deal compared to what else I found.
(6) If you plan to finance, check with your bank first. PeopleFirst.com has very favorable rates, but it will not finance Canadian vehicles. My bank would do it, but the rates were not very competitive. So my plan was to get a loan with my bank and then immediately refinance with PeopleFirst under their "refinancing" terms. The rates with PeopleFirst under refinancing were still pretty favorable.
(7) The colors available in Canada are different. May or may not matter to you; check the Acura Canada website.
All told, I determined I would save about $5K. Definitely worth it for me -- I was willing to pay the money for the hassle. In the end, though, we decided to buy a completely different vehicle. The MDX is awesome, but even with the "discount" it was more expensive than we wanted to spend. Maybe in a few years....best of luck to all of you until then. |
|
|
| xlargebee |
quote:
Originally posted by walrus104
When I ordered my MDX, I indicated that I was going to pay cash.
The dealer responded by saying I had to take a loan for part of the invoice. When I objected, the dealer indicated he would reimburse one month's interest.
This was required so that the dealer could indicate to Acura some diligence in ensuring that the buyer would not take the MDX to the US for reselling.
On delivery of the MDX, had to sign a document where I agrred not to sell my vehicle in the US for 1 year.
If it was not for the fact that I really wanted the X, I would have purchased something else!!
You have noted that some MDX were offered on Ebay as canadian models.
Acura apparently fines dealers who "helped" in shipping MDX to the US.
Those dealers get a fine and see their allocation of new MDX reduced.
hmm, i never thought of this...
it could be tempting for someone looking for quick profit though. |
|
|
| MichaelLjung |
I asked the salesperson specifically about such documentation and was told there wasn't any. He has been working for Acura Canada for many years, and he recently sold to two Americans. I had the impression he knew what he was talking about, but of course I never validated it, because I didn't buy the car.
In any case, people should be diligent.
Cheers -- Michael |
|
|
| feliz |
Well, I just purchased my MDX in Canada yesterday and the dealer was paranoid that I mght try and export the vehicle. I had to sign a separate NON EXPORT AGREEMENT and on the bill of sale it was stamped "This vehicle is sold and registered in Canada. This vehicle is not to be exported. If it is exported the warranty is void."and I was required to initial it.
I paid cash for the vehicle and was asked to fill out a credit application. When I asked why they said it was to help Honda Canada determine that I wasn't an auto broker that did this for a living or on a regular basis. The dealer said that if they knowingly sold a car for export they would lose an allotment of three MDXs for a month.
An article in one of our financial papers some time back claimed a lot of the difference was due to a LOT lower legal costs in Canada versus the US. We just don't have the lawsuits you folks do. We also don't have lemon laws as you do in most/all states. This might account for some of the price difference but obviously not all of it.
Just thought I would pass this on. As far as I'm concerned there should be free cross border shopping between Canada/US.
Sorry for the long post. |
|
|
| Sid |
I know that this topic has been idle for some time but I was wondering if anyone has any updates. I purchased a 2002 Canadian MDX a year + and 35,000 ago. Very pleased with everything so far. Now though with the transmission recall coming in the Acura dealer who has done my service work has said that he isn't sure that he can get my MDX in under the warranty. From reading these postings, I'm guessing not. I will be going back to the Lexus dealer who sold me the car as a "new" used car and I would like to have anything that I can take in with me to back up my position. Essentially that for $30,000+ they better take care of reasonable warranty issues.
Any help out there would be greatly appreciated. I have learned a lot already from reading the other postings.
Sid |
|
|
|
|
