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| I am near my first oil change at 7500 miles and i am planning to use synthetic oil. Has anyone used synthetic oil and is it a good recommendation, if so, what have you used 'mobil 1' or 'castrol synthec'? Thanks. |
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MDXtasy,
Changing regular oil every 7,500 miles is too long to go. One of the cheapest things you can do is change your oil. As far as synthetic oil, I have used it in a couple of my vehicles and you can go longer with it than regular motor oil. It also has a higher lubricity than regular oil so you might get a small improvement in mpg and definitely easier cold weather starting. Synthetic oil tends to stay cleaner longer because it is an ester rather than a mixture of paraffins and thus doesn't break down as quickly under heat either.
As far as Mobil 1 versus Castrol, I have only used Mobil 1. Amoco also has one but it may actually be made for them by Mobil.
Another thing to consider is you will probably have to change Synthethic oil yourself or bring 5 quarts to the dealer or oil change place because I doubt either would carry it. I had a Typhoon that GM required to use synthetic oil and the dealer did not even carry it or knew it was required.
Also the cost of synthetic oil has been 3 times that of normal oil therefore if you change your oil every 9-10K miles it's a breakeven. There are also some engine flushing benefits of changing oil every 3,000 miles which some will claim you get with normal oil versus going longer between changes by using synthetic oil.
Finally, read the owners manual to find out if synthetic oil is recommended or not. I have had cars in the past where using synthetic oil was specifically not recommended. I suggest you check with Acura/Honda headquarters on this issue to be on the safe side. |
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Through my involvement in automotive enthuasiast circles I have seen many changes in the properties of motor oils.
First thing I have to say is that "folk wisdom" about viscosity is mostly wrong. The worst thing you can do is use an oil with a higher viscosity than is needed. I can't tell you how many folks I have stopped in auto parts stores and told them that high viscosity engine oil will mess them up. Only a fool would believe that low static oil pressure can be improved by substitutung an oil that is harder to pump. Garden hose ain't delivering enough water? send it through a drinking straw and see how it squirts all over...(the ignorance)
On synthetics, the use of high quality 0W30 or 5W30 (or even 0W20 & 0W40,in applications that call for it) Mobil or Pennzoil 100% snythetic can give you better oil pressure at start-up, and better fuel economy. I would not recommend using sythetic to 'extend' the oil change interval, but instead would simply consider my engine "more uniformly protected" as the high quality synthetics tend to resist shifts in viscosity and in general "age" better.
The testing that the automakers has done shows that in most engines synthetics are a better choice, but costs are higher and availbility is an issue. The few cars that spec "synthetics only" are those that tend to be "babied" by their owners (MB, Porsche & Corvette come immeadiately to mind).
The so-called "racing" type synthetics have been unimpressive. They are more expensive than the already high priced Mobil & Pennzoil products and offer no real advantages. |
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| If you change the oil/filter every 3-4,000 miles, using synthetic oil is a waste of money unless you are talking about high performance car. |
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| The 3.5L VTEC produces over 1hp/cubic inch...pretty high performance. While a good quality mineral-based motor oil undoubtedly offers adequate protection, their are benefits to synthetics. It is up to each owner to decide what consistitutes "a waste of money", but synthetics are not for exotics only... |
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renov8r
Did a quick calculation on economics of synthetic versus regular oil with changes every 3,000 miles. Based upon a $2 per quart price differential, the added cost of using synthetic oil would be $170 for the first 50,000 miles. If what you say is correct, and I am not doubting you, this is chicken feed compared to the $40k MDX cost. If you run it 4,000 miles instead, the differential is even less.
I remember from my days at Amoco, the research guys were always downplaying the benefits of synthetic oil but Amoco did not produce any and they probably repackage someelses unless BP made it. I would be interested in any additional benefits that you have come across. Also do you know of any Oil Change places besides a Mobil station with a service bay in our area that will use synthetic oil. I used to change my own oil but I don't do it any more. |
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Most auto manufacturers only specify that the oil must meet certain standards. If the synthetics meet them, you are OK.
Second, most automanufactures DO NOT allow you to extend the interval between changes: If you do so you MAY void (most likely WILL void) the engine warranty.
Finally, lets say the cost is $170 for 50k miles, or $340 for 100k miles.... this is 25% of the cost of a 100k mile extended warranty, which covers alot more than the engine AND is 100% protection against ANYTHING...
Having said that, I do run synthetics .... in my lawn mower and tractor. :)
Ard |
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| I have used sythethic oil on all my cars. I have also tried almost every brand and most of the time I could not tell which brand was better. One thing is for sure I did notice that my cars were easier to start with the synthethic and it ran smoother longer. I do believe that definitely that just because you are running synthethic oil, it does not mean that you can delay the oil change interval longer. I still believe that you should still get an oil change in accordance with the same frequency as you would if you were running regular oil. I believe that even most synthetics can hold out up to three times the life of regular oil but there is still a weak link in the form of the oil filter. Most oil filters were designed to be replaced within 3500 miles, with the exception of K&N. I am really uncomfortable with the idea of changing the oil at 7500 miles. By the way the best sythethic oils I ever used in my opinion was Redline and Royal Purple. Castrol and Mobil are quite qood also. If you are thinking of delaying your oil change I would recomend you get the K&N for added protection. |
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| Actually, the 7500 mi oil change will be my first one as stated in the manual and also has been discussed on previous threads - this i guess to sink-in the "break-in oil additive". Thereafter, I plan to change my oil every 3500 or whatever is recommended by the manual. Like Remery mentioned I plan to bring in my own [synthetic] oil to the dealer at every oil change. Even though I plan to use synthetic oil only, I will stick to the required oil weight or rating for the MDX. I think it will be a worthwile maintenance investment to use synthetic oil. Thanks :) |
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primary advantage: far, far easier to pump when cold. At initial start-up the oil is flowing much faster -- most wear occurs at start-up so minimizing the oil starvation then will have greatest benefit.
Other advantages: Stays "in grade" more consistently than mineral based lubes. The degradation that causes oil to eventually not remain 5W20 (or whatever) is minimal in sythetics. While the viscosity of some mineral oils breaks down (and it in effect becomes 'lighter') while others get harder to pump, synthetics are most immune from this. Similarly the tendancy of oils to "drag" against the rotating crankshaft is minimized with synthetics, freeing up a bit of free power/economy. Synthetics form virtually no "coke" even when super heated far beyond the normal range, most important in turbo cars, or when there is loss of cooling. Finally, there are some technical details of synthetics, with regard to heat transfer, uniformity, and acid buffering capability that make it a superior product.
Granted, the high degree of standardization means that even quality mineral motor oil is excellent, but synthetic is better... |
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| WOW! Renov8r, how did you know so much about oil technicalities? You're the "oil king" :D:D |
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renov8r,
Good info on synthetics which is what I asked for in the earlier post. But here's another one. It has been mentioned in this forum that Acura recommends that the first oil change be at 7,500 miles instead of the usual 3,750 miles. My understanding is that they put in "break in" additives in the initial oil charge. I haven't heard of using break in oils in cars for over 20 years. Do you know what the Acura elves are up to? Or is this more to coincide with the need to also change the VTM fluid at 7,500 miles? |
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While I don't know this for a fact, I'd bet that the oil that Honda puts in at the factory has an extra big dose of "moly" (molybendiumdisulfide)or a similar compound which are also known as a "high pressure friction modifiers".
Basically moly works its way into the surface of steel and makes it wear better & "take" to oil. The extended change period recommended is to ensure that the compound goes through many heating cycles which helps it to bond to the steel/iron( it will only be a few atoms thick). The net result is that the cams and bearings are 'coated' with a layer of the special materials. Given that Honda has much experience with VTEC cams I suspect their in- house testing revealed that the additives are most needed on new cams, and that once properly broken, in normal life expectancy will result. The newest oils lack some compounds becuase of concerns over just how toxic the heavy metal based addititives can be at the refining steps. It is prudent to confine the use of such additives to the initial break-in, in an effort to maximize effectiveness while reducing threats from producing "regular" oil with more additives than are needed.
BTW I learned alot about oil from courses in chemical microscopy, which I took as an wanna-be chem grad student. Turns out that the properties of oils make some excellent fixitives/media for suspending specimiens & determining the properties of microscopic samples. Further, the microscopic bits of metal that end up in oil can tell a skilled microscopist where/how the engine is wearing. Most "oil analysis" firms don't do this, though the major auto makers either have staff metalurgists who do, or contract out the services -- especially on newly designed engines. I still gravitate toward to articles/papers about advances in lubricants and find lots of articles in the local community college ASAE journals (when I get time to read...) |
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| renov8r thanks for the great post. Ironically, one of the problems in refining certain types of crude oil is the concentration of Vandium in the heavier distillates with its abrasion and heavy metal toxicity problems. Now the big money question. When you get your MDX are you going to use synthetic or mineral oil? |
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So what's the harm if we change oil every 7500 vs 3750 miles. This is my third Honda and have never had any engine trouble. My present Honda Accord ('88) has 232k. For the last 130K I have changed the oil between 6000 and 8000 miles. Honda recommended I do it at 7500 and anything less would be just wasting money. I don't leak any oil, I don't burn any oil, I'm never down a quart. The engine still runs smooth and I have never had any engine related problems. I've never used synthetic oil. I have averaged just under 34mpg for the life of the car.
3750 mile oil changes are fine if you want to guarantee that you are keeping the vehicle for 500k. I don't expect many of you will even see 200k in this MDX without upgrading. My Honda engines have been far superior to the Ford's that I replaced. From past experience I don't see any need for synthetic nor 3750 mile oil changes. I know the Honda will still easily make to 200K. I've been driving Honda's for the last 19 years.
Just my two cents worth in support of Honda manufacturing. |
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When all else fails read the book. Just picked it up last night (will post experience later under appropriate thread) and spent the evening browsing the owner's manual.
Several places it clearly states to follow the recommended service schedule (duh!). Page 194 says, regarding the break-in period, to avoid changing the oil before the recommended scheduled maintenance. Pages 250 and 262 specifically refer to oil changes. No where in the manual is a discussion of a "special" FIRST oil change. The manual is clear: follow the maintenance schedule!
The confusion may result from the fact that there are TWO maintenance schedules: Normal and Severe driving conditions.
First Scheduled Oil Changes are as follows:
Normal Conditions: 7500 miles (p. 252)
Severe Conditions: 3750 miles (p. 254)
Since we meet two of the conditions for severe driving, I will get the first oil changed at 3750 miles (free from John Eagle Acura - http://www.houstonacura.com
By the way the two conditions we met were 1) hot weather (over 90 degrees - we live in Houston!) and 2) driving with a roof rack. Yes that is what the book says (p. 253) driving with a roof rack qualifies for severe driving conditions.
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| I forgot to add that we also met and spoke with the maintenance manager last night and he said to get the first oil change at 3750 miles. I asked about a special "break-in" oil and he said yes, but you are still to follow the recommended schedule, which with Houston's heat qualifies for severe. |
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| Yes snythetic oil is OK as per the Owner's Manual (p.262). They do say that the synthetic must meet API requirements for the car. Also the maintenance schedule is the same as for regular oil. |
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Thanks for the great info re: oil changes. I was told by my dealer to change the oil at my first 1000 miles. If what you said was true about the moly oil additives. Should I one try to get the dealer to get more special oil from Acura and change it again. Or not worry about it. Also I would be interested in you choice of synthetic or not and how often do you think I should change the oil in my MDX, 2/3 hwy 1/3 city.
Thanks |
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quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
I forgot to add that we also met and spoke with the maintenance manager last night and he said to get the first oil change at 3750 miles. I asked about a special "break-in" oil and he said yes, but you are still to follow the recommended schedule, which with Houston's heat qualifies for severe.
I got essentially the same story from my dealer when I picked it up last night. They also gave me a coupon to get this first change free. I would really be interested why the roof rack consitutes severe driving conditions. Does Acura think we will be strapping the in-laws to the roof when we drive around?:D |
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quote:
Originally posted by remery
Does Acura think we will be strapping the in-laws to the roof when we drive around?:D
I didn't see it anywhere in the owner's manual, but I'm interested in your results!
My wifes car is an A4 Avant 1.8t, and it seems everyone on the AudiWorld site that has a 1.8t is using Synth. I'm leaning in that direction, with 3750 for changes. How about some knowledgeable opinions on changing the filter... every other oil change, every change?
I had once been told to change the oil & filter at 1000 miles to rid the system of early particles. Tried it once on a Mazda MX3, and it happened to be the only car I every had a real problem with buring oil, low on oil, etc. Then again, that car was no Acura! |
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msu79gt82: In a previous thread, I asked Tim Poliniak to ask Acura's regional service manager specifically about the scenario you posed:
2. Perhaps a dumb question: I understand that the initial oil change interval is 7500 miles for usual driving, and less if city or hot weather driving is involved. I also have heard that the original oil contains special lubricants and should not be changed prematurely. So if you're doing driving that would normally qualify for the shorter oil change interval, when do you do your first oil change?
Tim's response:
As for your oil change, you are correct in stating that the original oil does contain special lubricants essential for proper break-in. You can change the oil at 3000 miles, but it is highly recommended that you wait until the 7500 interval for the first oil change, or at least 6 months, whichever comes first.
Also, although the manual does state "roof rack" I have read elsewhere (in official Honda text, can't remember where unfortunately) that this really refers to a "cargo carrier." There is no way that driving with that roof rack alone qualifies as severe driving (though our Houston heat certainly does).
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