| pacpal1 |
Are there any true audiophiles out there?
I believe that I have read all the posts regarding audio systems. I know that most of you, like me, have retained the Bose head unit...probably for the same reasons I planned: 1) because it's shape is so integral to the dash and 2) to avoid any visible evidence of an aftermarket system (i.e., theft deterrent).
Does anyone have experience swapping out the factory head unit? I'm not concerned about how to wire the aftermarket unit (I've done this many times on other vehicles). My main objective is to 1) determine if an aftermarket DIN chassis adapter exists for the Acura MDX dash or 2) hear what you've experienced in terms of custom dash modifications. I've just e-mailed a couple companies that seem to make such adapters for a variety of vehicles...however, it seems they haven't got around to manufacture a DIN adapter for the MDX.
My initial plan was to replace only the amplifiers and speakers, retaining the factory Bose head unit because it's shape is so integral to the dash. I'm at the end of the "proof of concept stage". I've personally installed a/d/s/ speakers, a/d/s/ amplifiers, a Boston Acoustics sub and an Audio Control equalizer. This is very good equipment, however, no amount of adjustment on the speaker crossover or equalizer settings results in a satisfying sound.
Yesterday, I bypassed the head unit by connecting an old Nakamichi compact disc player to the other aftermarket components currently installed in my MDX. Obviously, this was only a temporary connection of a home audio component to see what kind of sound my aftermarket components would provide with a proven, high quality input signal. Believe me...the Bose head unit has significant limitations at the high end and probably throughout the audible spectrum.
Any comments? |
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| R Stevens |
pacpal1,
I had a new headunit installed because the installer convinced me the end result would vastly improve the sound quality. The new headunit also has superior features and functionality such as XM radio display, time correction, equalization, sub output level control, etc. Here is a picture of the result. The HU is an Alpine CDA-7998 with the Phantom Face display that retreats into the unit ehen powered down. Above it is the Alpine 5205 DVD player and below is the Alpine TME 760 monitor.
The trim piece was fabricated out of plexiglass with a texture coating and final color matched painting by a local auto interior repair company.
I'll submit a couple photos as soon as I remember how to do it!! :confused: |
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| slackass |
| I too replaced the factory head unit. I used the Eclipse 7002 indash screen. I originally had it installed in the top DIN slot but, just this week, moved it to the bottom spot. When the screen is out, it blocked the trip computer somewhat and made the buttons right below it almost impossible to reach. Moving it to the bottom slot fixed the problem. The entire screen is visible and the buttons can now be reached with no problem. I also made a trim plate out of plexi. I cut it out on a CNC machine so, it is very precise. It is pretty much a press fit into place. I made 3 to get 1 perfect fit. So, I am trying to color match with the extra 2. |
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| WarfRat |
Perhaps the limitation in the head unit is a crappy D to A converter.
Is the sound just as bad with FM radio and tape?? I know this isnt a fair comparison, but might point us in the right direction as to the head units weak points.
Does anyone know if the Bose head units have a digital (RCA or Optical) output?? I really hope that they do so that a quality D/A converter can be added. All I want the factory head unit to do is be a "transport" to feed an D/A>preamp/crossover>amps> speakers
I would also like to know the diffrences between the Non-RES BOSE head unit and the RES Bose head Unit,as well as who makes them for Acura, Alpine? Panasonic? etc. |
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| TheyCallMeBruce |
quote:
Originally posted by WarfRat
Perhaps the limitation in the head unit is a crappy D to A converter.
Is the sound just as bad with FM radio and tape?? I know this isnt a fair comparison, but might point us in the right direction as to the head units weak points.
Does anyone know if the Bose head units have a digital (RCA or Optical) output?? I really hope that they do so that a quality D/A converter can be added. All I want the factory head unit to do is be a "transport" to feed an D/A>preamp/crossover>amps> speakers
I would also like to know the diffrences between the Non-RES BOSE head unit and the RES Bose head Unit,as well as who makes them for Acura, Alpine? Panasonic? etc.
Optical outputs on a stock model of the "lower end" of luxury lines, eh? Get a hold of yourself.
No optical. No RCA.
In place of rca line level output cables to the amp, Bose/Acura uses standard, un-sheilded and un-modified, thin-gauged, automotive harnesses - the same as all the other harnesses on the vehicle. I suspect the poor head to amp cabling to be the culprit for the substandard sound quality even after upgrading the amp and speakers. I've swapped in headunits of varying qualities (from a friend's $89 Jensen to a $450 Sony) for testing, and with all other system components the same, same car, same everything, I haven't been able to distinguish a qualitative difference in the sound quality (apart from dsp and parametric equalization, and other artificial modifications to the sound). However, if the Bose headunit is going to output to plain wires and are bundled together or adjacent to other system harnesses, there will inevitably be signal loss, induction of electronic noise and the distortion which accompanies such effects. So much technology goes into high end signal cables, and all of that is lost to the Bose.
J.W., before you dive into the expense of a full custom integration of an aftermarket headunit, you might perform another proof of concept attempt with a borrowed headunit (those Competition Soundworks people sure seem nice to you) instead of the home cd play you previously tested with. You can temporarily tap headunit power off the amp harness wires. This might give you an idea if a new headunit will solve the sound quality problem for you. |
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| pacpal1 |
To those that responded, I appreciate the discussion. Let me add three responeses:
1) To TheyCallMe Bruce: First, thanks for all your online and offline help over the past few weeks. Your comment above suggests an interesting alternative: You saw my install at the Comp Soundworks parking lot, so you know that I am currently tapping into the factory head unit at the point where it entered the Bose amp (near the transmission housing). Where are you tapping yours? Do you think there would be any benefit to tapping the signal just as it exits the head unit??????? As an aside...I've checked the stats of Alpine's line of aftermarket head units (CDA 7998, 7894 and 9811), all share the same CD and FM specifications (i.e., signal to noise, number and type of DA converters, sampling rate, channel seperation, etc.)...in fact, the specs of Alpine's current line haven't changed in many years...I know this because I saved the manual to the Alpine head unit I installed in my last vehicle 8 years ago (an Alpine 7815)...except for signal to noise ratio (both CD and FM tuner) it shares performance specs with Alpine's current line. Consequently, one would assume that this stuff qualifies as commodity electronics today and that the Bose head unit shouldn't be so far off (although anyone who's removed the Bose amp and speakers knows the depths to which Bose/Acura sacrificed quality of components to save $$$). And you're correct, before I move forward, I'll definitely perform a quick temporary install of whatever aftermarket head unit I select (probably the Alpine 9811, since I care only about signal quality and not so much about flashing lights and features) just to verify the signal quality and improvement in sound.
2) I'd love to see any pictures of custom faceplates, if I go down the road of a custom install, I'll need some ideas!
3) FM signal quality is as poor as the CD. However, everyone reading this thread should realize that with respect to both CD and FM, I'm talking about the last 15-20% improvement in sound quality...installing high quality speakers, amps and an equalizer has GREATLY improved sound quality over the stock Bose system...I'm now talking about the last bit of improvement that makes my wife just roll her eyes and wonder what's wrong with me. I know this additional benefit is available, because I have installed complex systems in about 5 different vehicles I've owned over the last 15 years...in the past, however, I've never had to deal with the issue of factory head unit signal quality because all my previous vehicles used standard DIN openings, making replacement of the head unit a no brainer. |
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| xcel |
Hi Pacpal1:
___According to AikiMDX, the 03 Touring w/ either NAV, RES, or both (I am not sure which one he owns?) now have RCA pre-outs on the OEM/Alpine head unit if that helps. I don’t know what your own X is given its not in your sig so hopefully at least that issue is not a problem with later X’s? Please let us know what you find as I have yet to pull the head unit out for the Blitz adapter install myself. Maybe next week sometime …
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| pacpal1 |
| Do you mean 1) RCA pre outs or 2) RCA input jacks that accept another form of signal input (i.e., for a DVD or remotely located CD changer? I'll certainly check up on this, but I'd be floored if the Bose head unit had RCA pre outs...that would mean Bose/Acura purposefully designed their system to be upgradable in terms of bypassing the Bose amp and speakers. Any others have a comment on this? |
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| xcel |
Hi PacPal1:
___I am almost positive AikiMDX said RCA Pre-amp outs. A search should show the post as it was buried deep in one of the many MDX Audio upgrade threads if I remember correctly.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| Curtsan |
I just finished my custom faceplate last week. Difficulty was not that bad, and easier than I thought, Time however, was huge, so be prepared....Cost, less than $25.
I first removed the Bose CD player. I then used the wood grain trim as the rough outline for the new faceplate traced onto 1/2" MDF. When you look at eh Bose radio face, you can see that it is contoured at the edges to allow it to "tuck behid" the wood trim, and protrude slightly at the edges, so when I cut my MDF, based on the pattern I had, I allowed about a 1/4 " all around the sides and bottom. Top is completely flat to rest up against the LCD unit.
Then, I routered the edge of my MDF to get an exact fit into the Wood trim, and depth so it was the same as the LCD unit fit.
Once this was done, I then used Bondo to give the whole face the same curvature that the original CD player had. It's not much, but does curve outwards about 3/8" in the middle point at its highest.
(the trick to getting this right is to take the face off the factory CD changer, just a few small screws and a couple of clips, then you can simply use the face for fit and curve measuring purposes, without having to fumble around with the whole radio.
Once I got the rough curve, it was a matter of sanding, sanding and more sanding. Some fill here and there, and more sanding.
then, I figured out where the head unit will need to be cut through, based on the factory mounting brackets which also hold the LCD screen, Alpine HU's match up perfectly with the existing holes. Once I had this marked out, I simply drilled and cut out with a jig saw the area to have the components reside. I am using two components stacked, so I mounted the top one based on the the factory brackets, and the bottom one is a display unit only, so I left a small bit of the face plate in tact to separate the two components, rather than mount them together in a typical double din set up. I then used a bit more bondo to contour the area around the head units a bit and yes, more sanding.
I bought some special spray paint which is to mtach interior black plastic from a local auto body shop. It gave a perfect texture match, but color actuall y too black, and the acura black has a bit of grey to it, so I used alternating coats of grey and black until I got it right (or at least close enought to be satisfied, I could never get the shine/matte finish the same).
I then put it all together and it fit like a glove, and am very happy with it. The LCD has a few tabs which fit into the top of the MDF, so I just drilled these out and it helps keep it aligned while mounting. The whole thing is kept in place by pressure from the wood trim. Very solid, and looks pretty good IMHO.
Low cost, dificulty is not too bad, and time is about 8 hours in total work. (I'm a bit pokey though) Toughest part is the matching of paint finish, as it changes in different lighting conditions (garage vs. outside)
I'm now working on my custom MDF/fibreglass Sub box. It will have one 12" R series Alpine Sub...big time mounting depth needed...
I'll fire up some pictures once the whole install is complete... |
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| EXCALIBUR |
Curtsan,
May we see some pictures of your work please? |
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| R Stevens |
Folks,
I am having a devil of a time posting some pictures of my headunit install. They are within the kb size limit and are in .jpg format, but nothing happens. I posted some pics last fall with no problem. Any clues? I'm running XP. Thanks.
Curtsan,
In response to your comment about the color match my installer had the same problem - sometimes too grey, sometimes too black. He finally had an auto interior repair company do a custom dye mix of the paint using the factory formula.
pacpal1,
Did the pictures come through on my email? |
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| AikiMDX |
quote:
Originally posted by xcel
Hi PacPal1:
___I am almost positive AikiMDX said RCA Pre-amp outs. A search should show the post as it was buried deep in one of the many MDX Audio upgrade threads if I remember correctly.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net
Yup, dual RCA preouts. The Nav/RES also has one RCA input as well (right rear video and audio input). |
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| pacpal1 |
Well...this is HUGE news to me and a key point of system planning for any future reader of the Audio & Electronics thread. Although your post clearly states that there are RCA outputs, it's unclear if you mean two as in left and right or two pairs of left and right (i.e., left and right front and left and right rear).
I've reviewed my Service Manual...the radio removal procedures look fairly simple, so I'll post a reply later tonight. |
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| pacpal1 |
For the record, I have a 2003 Touring...no RES and no Navigation.
I just pulled my head unit...mfg by Pioneer...the screen is mfg by Alpine. The head unit is comprised of two distinct components screwed together: 1) a disc changer coupled to 2) a tape player/receiver. There are no external wire connections between the disc changer-tape player/receiver...the connection must be made inside where it's not visible at this stage of dissasembly.
The head unit has no RCA outs...although there is a 14 pin connector on the rear of the tape player/receiver segment that is not utilized (this is the smaller connector labeled "A" on page 22-159 of the Service Manual...I think it's the passenger side one, on the opposite side of the antenna connector). Are these unused pins outputs, inputs or a combination of both? Are they used for RES (this is my bet...why would Acura source two totally different head units simply to satisfy the RES/Navigation option)? I don't know why they'd be outputs.
AikiMDX, I think you have RES/Navigation, and I think you may mean that someone installed RCA outs onto your system...this is the same thing I did by tapping into the wires leading into the Bose amp that was mounted on the passenger's side of the the transmission shifter. AikiMDX...please confirm this point! AikiMDX, if this is not the case, then please confirm that you found your system, as supplied by the factory, to include two (or four) unused RCA pre out connectors suitable for hooking up an aftermarket two (or four) channel power amplifier (i.e., allowing you to bypass the Bose amps). |
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| WarfRat |
Keep up the good work here!
I will have a 2003 Touring with NAV, which should be the same head unit as a touring w/o nav. Sounds like I will have to resort to a multi-pin to RCA adapter coming out of the head unit, would be thrilled to learn otherwise.
What we want is an output from as close to the source as possible, can take it to aftermarket gear from there, using the stock head unit.
"No digital output for you!!"
Warf |
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| Curtsan |
You bet, I have been snapping shots (non-digital camera) all the way so far throughout the install.
I'm about 60% complete, just in the process of shipping away at it a few hours every night after the kids hit the sack.
Running lots of wire and cables right now under the carpet.
Once I get it complete I'll post the shots...stay tuned... |
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| AikiMDX |
I have the Nav/Res model. My installation did not require hi/lo adapters and my amp is taking a low level signal. There are no typical red and white rca jacks, but the Blows amps are receiving a low level signal. My installer said they tapped into the outputs behind the head unit (I believe) and spliced them onto regular rca's. There was also another post (can't remember who right now) who had done the same thing with the splicing onto regular rca cables. I had left them my Helms manual to help them with tracking wires down.
My installer was quite surprised when I told him I wouldn't be needing the hi/lo convertor he quoted me (thanks to others posts here). Afterwards, he said, "you were right, I'm really surprised" when they didn't need it. |
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