| jedge78 |
Hi Guys,
I have an 02 base MDX(not the touring) and I want to add a subwoofer and amplifier. I have a JL 100/1 and a 12W7 that I installed using a line output converter but it sounds really bad. I was told that there is a factory amplifier located near the passenger side, rear wheel well, that powers the factory subwoofer. I was wondering if this amplifier has rca outputs. Basically, I am looking for an alternate way to connect the JL amplifier. I have tried using the speaker level inputs on the amp by tapping into the speaker wire going into the factory sub, but this sounded pretty crappy as well. Does anyone have any recommendations with regards to connecting the amplifier. I would really appreciate any advice.
Thanks in advance,
Joe |
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| jedge78 |
oh...forget to mention....the car is leased so I definately want to keep the factory head unit and also, is the rear factory amplifier solely used to power the stock subwoofer or does it power the rear speakers as well?
Thanks Again |
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| jedge78 |
I did a bunch of searches and was really impressed by some of the installs. I have opted to install a special fiberglass enclosure that will be placed ove the area where the factory sub now lies but I am still unsure about the amplifier issues. I am sure someone has encountered the same issues.... anyone?
thanks |
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| kimsta |
quote:
Originally posted by jedge78
oh...forget to mention....the car is leased so I definately want to keep the factory head unit and also, is the rear factory amplifier solely used to power the stock subwoofer or does it power the rear speakers as well?
Thanks Again
Joe,
I am not 100% sure but I think the factory amp only powers the sub. I think the interior speakers are powered by the head unit. Can anybody confirm?
Did you have any problems installing the w7s? Was there enough depth space in the factory enclosure?
Thanks,
Charles |
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| R Stevens |
| If the Base model is set up like the Touring model, then the sub amp powers the sub and the twiddler. There is another small amp located in the center console that powers all 4 door speakers/tweeters. |
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| jedge78 |
I opted not to put the W7's in the factory sub location because they are so long that it would have been nearly impossible to fit them, and even with the strongest of fiberglass enclosures, the ratling in that tight space would have killed me. Instead, they are in separate enclosures facing one another in the rear of the truck. I must say though, I have been having worlds of trouble getting them to sound good with the factory radio. The line level converter just doest have enough power from the radio to supply the amp with a good signal, and using a line driver will just further color the signal. I tried running leads off of the factory subs and run those into the amp but the sound was pretty bad also. I am thinking now that the best thing to do would be to tap into the signal going into the factory sub amp. Does anyone know if the signal going into the amp is high or low level signal. Furthermore, is it crossed over before it gets to the amp or does the amp have its own crossover? Thanks for the help.
Also....Charles....if you don't have your heart set on a W7, there are a couple of subs out there that will sound just as good and might be able to fit in the factory location. Check out the Elemental Designs A series subwoofers and the Adire Audio Brahmas. Both will compete with a W7 and the Elemental sub, which comes in an 8" version, is way more efficient. |
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| pacpal1 |
Jedge78:
I tapped the head unit's signal where it entered the Bose amp mounted in the shifter housing located to the left of the passenger's left calf position...this is a low level signal in the sense that it has not been amplified (same for the signal going into the rear subwoofer amp). However, if you're looking for a clean signal, you should see my posts stating my view of the factory installed Bose head unit...I've installed very high quality amps/speakers/signal controls (so far retaining the Bose head unit) and found the resulting sound to suffer from lack of clarity throughout the audible spectrum (i.e., at the high, mid and low range). I was actually quite surprised by this...I expected the Bose head unit would lack signal clarity mostly at the high end...I don't think this is the case, in fact, I believe the Bose head unit imparts a significant amount of distortion/signal coloration at the low end.
My opinion currently is that if you choose to not swap out the head unit and you happen to possess highly discerning ears, you will be disappointed. In fact, I am now planning to replace the factory Bose head unit with a high quality Alpine aftermarket unit...this should occur in the next week or so. I own my MDX and usually hold onto cars for a very long time, so I'm not faced with the same limitations as a lessee.
By the way, I can take as well as dish it out...if I don't achieve the sound quality improvement I expect, I will post my conclusions and eat crow on this board for all to read. However, if you've already replaced the speakers, you can attest to the very low quality of their physical construction...I've replaced the amps also (and have taken them apart...they're construction is of very low quality). My opinion is that Acura's Bose system was a marketing and cost containment effort, and nothing else. My hypothesis is that the poor quality evident in the speakers and amps is also present in the head unit.
Good luck...please post your results! |
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| jedge78 |
I completely understand what you mean... "no highs, no lows....must be bose"...lol... I am used to very high end audio equipment and I do have a discerning ear but, unfortunately, I do not have the time, money, or patience to put a crazy system in this car. I, nor should anyone, expect incredible sound from a factory head unit using a crappy converter. But one thing everyone must keep in mind is, sound quality is very relative. Compared to the base or bose audio system, adding some Quart or Focal components to the factory locations of the car will sound relatively incredible. Will it sound as good as someone who has made custom kickpanel enclosures, is using expensive sound processors, and has a high end deck. Definately not but it is still a huge step up from the factory system. Therefore, I definately think it is worth my while to upgrade. I go into it knowing that I wont be winning any SQ competitions any time soon, but I will definately enjoy listening to music in my truck more.
As far as ways to get a high quality signal from a factory deck, there are ways. One way, is to crack open the factory deck and tap into the low level signal before it reaches the radio's internal amp. This signal then run through a high quality line driver, eventually reaching the amp. It is a difficult procedure, but I guess it is worth it for those die hard audiophiles. I was really interested in finding out whether the signal (on the base model mdx) that goes to the rear amplifier from the HU is a clean, full range signal. If so, it seems like the most logical place to tap the signal needed to connect an amp as it is does not require removing the deck and lends itself to a fairly easy install. Just wodnering if anyone has tried this yet because, if it is a crossed over signal, i might as well not waste my time with it.
Best Regards and I really appreciate all of the input. |
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| pacpal1 |
| In response to my post above, I finally purchased an aftermarket head unit (Alpine 9813). I completed a temporary install of the Alpine 9813 this evening to quickly guage the improvement in sound quality over the factory head unit (refer to my many other posts stating that I've installed very high quality amps, speakers and an equalizer and still was not satisfied with the system's performance). MY CONCLUSION IS THAT THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT IMPROVEMENT IN SIGNAL QUALITY TO BE GAINED BY REPLACING THE BOSE HEAD UNIT. To those of you who have been considering this move after already replacing the speakers and amps, I guarantee that you won't be disappointed! I carefully listened to a few select recordings prior to installing the Alpine 9813 aftermarket head unit and then reviewed those same recordings after the install. Although I have been suspicious of the Bose head unit's signal quality, I was surprised at the increase in definition and the amount of sound that "appeared" once the aftermarket Alpine unit was supplying the signal. Believe me, there is an entire layer of sound (across the audible spectrum...low end to high end) that's not present in the Bose head unit output signal, and no amount of equalization will ever bring it out. In fact, I'll withdraw my prior statement about reaching for the last 10% or 15% of improvement...it's much more than that, as long as you've also installed high quality amps and speakers. I hope my posts and final conclusion help some of you plan your systems accordingly...if you're objective is a top notch sound system, don't waste your time holding on to the Bose head unit...I felt I had to at least give it a try...I've installed many systems in other vehicles I've owned, but none of those cars had a stereo that was as molded into the dash as the MDX. The difference is so significant that I'll gladly accept the additional theft risk by mounting an aftermarket head unit in the dashboard as well as any esthetic issues caused by replacing the Bose unit with an aftermarket piece that doesn't retain the same rounded appearance as the remainder of the MDX dashboard. |
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| shootist |
| I don't understand- why did you initially think that a medium quality factory system, with medium quality factory speakers and factory amps, would have a very high quality factory head unit? What am I missing? |
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| R Stevens |
pacpal1,
Congratulations on achieving your objectives with the new headunit. Your results further validate my experience in replacing the headunit. |
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| pacpal1 |
| shootist...as I noted above, although I've installed many systems in previous cars I've owned, I've never attempted to retain the head unit...therefore, I have no experience with the quality (or lack thereof) of factory installed head units. In fact, all of my previous vehicles had standard DIN sized factory head units...making replacement a no-brainer. On the MDX, I initially pursued a system that retained the factory head unit to 1) retain the original design integrity of the dashboard and 2) avoid attracting thieves. In addition, as of February 2003 (when I took delivery of my MDX) a review of all the posts on these boards did not reveal any discussion relating to the quality of the factory head unit signal...in fact, many posters were reporting high degrees of satisfaction from simply swapping out speakers. I chose to be very vocal about my feelings to set the record straight in the future for others like myself who are pursuing very high quality sound. |
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| shootist |
quote:
Originally posted by pacpal1
I chose to be very vocal about my feelings to set the record straight in the future for others like myself who are pursuing very high quality sound.
I'm not disagreeing with you, either. If you're going to the expense of putting in new amps, you should swap the head unit. If you want to spend just a hundred and a half, you swap $40 speakers for the $5 speakers.
An audio signal suffers from the sum of its degradations. I had my ears upgraded when I was young, and have since burned them out.
Magneplanars forever. |
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| OP MDX |
Shootist...
How many inches does your Black Rhino hitch step stick out? I only have a few inches to spare in the garage space. |
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| shootist |
| I'll measure it tonight- but figure at least 6 inches, maybe 8. The tube itself looks to be about 3. |
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| shootist |
quote:
Originally posted by OP MDX
Shootist...
How many inches does your Black Rhino hitch step stick out? I only have a few inches to spare in the garage space.
The Rhino hitch step sticks out 5 inches more than the hitch receiver. It also has holes drilled to stick out more if you want it to really hang out.
Interestingly, the first time I parked in a valet garage, the Rhino hitch step saved my bumper. When I picked it up, I pointed out the concrete bits embedded into the hitch step to my friend the attendant.
And I tip these guys an entire months garage rent every Christmas! They were even looking out for my brand new car! |
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| Spud |
This whole thread makes me glad I decided on the base model and didn't go for the touring because of the "upgraded" stereo.
I don't have any immediate plans to mod the audio, but it appears (as is almost always the case) that aftermarket beats OEM big time.
My advice to anyone trying to decide on premium vs touring is unless you want/need nav - save your thousands and buy the base model. IMO, YMMV :2: |
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| EXCALIBUR |
Spud,
Yes, the Bose Stereo is definetely not the sole reason for going with the Touring model. There are many features in addition to the NAV that make the Touring model a great choice, eg. tilt down passenger side mirror, memory seats, nicer alloy wheels and tires, etc. YMMV, and I am glad you like your Base model.:4: |
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| Curtsan |
| This is what is behind the rear panel. Prior to my soundproofing and install of custom sub box |
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| Curtsan |
| An 12 inch Alpine DVC R series sub box will have about .7 cu ft to work with in this box. This is before final fibreglassing of back area which is protruding out into factory opening and another front baffle of MDF, to give the sub a recessed look. |
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| Curtsan |
Box now in place and interior trim put back...front 3/4" baffle to be installed and some bondo to shape the final exterior of the box prior to carpeting...will fill with fibre fill also
R series subs need almost 8" of depth....these are some huge baskets and magnets to work around....let's hope it fits....?? |
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| imraw |
Curtsan,
It definately looks like you know what you are doing. I am doing an install on mine next week. I am just doing a sub box for now. Do not want to alter the sub area yet. Had upgraded with just some diamond audio speakers and sub and Memphis amp. Bad idea. Now comes the head unit I should have put in next week. I am prepared for this thing to rock. |
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| Curtsan |
Here's a look at the faceplate I made, using the old factory deck as the template...basically 1/2" MDF, routered on the edges to replicate the factory edge of the radio and tabs, then built up with bondo to give the correct curve to the face (up and down and side to side...) then cut out for the components to go....
Top is the Alpine slide out 6.5" screen, bottom is the EQ/surround processor .....
Lots of sanding to get the curved face correct....color matching was also tricky...used this paint that matches most factory plastics, however, Acura's was a bit more gray, so I did alternating light coats of this black and gray until it got close enough ...the following pics actually look worse than in real life in terms of color...the flash kind exagerates the texture a bit... |
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| imraw |
| awsome job Curtsan. Very professional looking.!!! |
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| phins2rt |
| Looking good!!!:29: |
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| kimsta |
| Very clean and professional looking!!! |
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| DaleB |
Geezz! Do you sell your services, Curtsan? You should! I am peeved that someone can take a RAV4 put in an awesome Sony front end with adaptors from Circuit City and we can't do diddly on the X unless you are an artiste like Curtsan and few others on the board.
By the way, it was Amazent that mod'ed his RAV. I hope to see it in a couple of weeks. |
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| Curtsan |
thanks for the remarks....I hope to have some further pictures posted next week if all goes well with the final product. I just got the matching carpet in today, so I will be putting that on, and with any luck get all the tweaking done.
So much of an install like this is not seen afterwards, so I take a lot of pics as things progress.
Of course in the event I don't keep a vehicle forever, I don't allow myself to do any cutting of sheet metal or anything. So far, I've only put an inverter in the back of the center console (other thread) which will stay with vehicle anyway, and cut the back plastic panel where the sub is....(I 've already received a new one from Tim which will stay on the shelf until the time comes to sell. Everything I've done can pop out, and factory stuff pop back in...(other than Dynamat of course) see other thread on soundproofing vehicle in General topics.
Everyone has their hobbies and passions, and mine is audio. To be honest, for me its more of a "thrill in the build" type of thing, than it is the sound afterwards. This is my fourth "major" install , however, this is the first big time video install, so I am really looking forward to it.... |
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| jedge78 |
curt: i really appreciate you posting the pictures...i do have a couple of questions though....
First, you mentioned that you did not actually cut any metal. Is that enclosure going to go into the factory location somehow? Or, rather, is it going to look something like this... http://www.pasmag.com/img/news/image966.jpg
Furthermore, what exactly had to be permanantly modified? I believe you mentioned a plastic sheet.
Last question :-) I have been having an incredible amount of trouble getting a signal from the factory HU (not the touring model)
I have tried using both an LOC and using speaker level inputs to get a signal for the amp yet, with the speaker level inputs, whenever I turn the amplifier up (JL Audio 1000/1), the output starts to distort heavily. And with the LOC, the signal is far to week for the amp and I get no output with my gains all the way up. Any ideas?
I really appreciate all of the help.
Thanks Again,
Joe |
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| Curtsan |
Thanks for the comments...
As far as you second point, I can't really help out, since I changed out my entire system, including headunit, amps, and even totally new wiring throughout....possibly Ron from street effects can jump in with a comment, as he is an expert in the industry and I beleive he is very familiar with the integration of signals from the factory head units.
As far as my project, the piece which was cut out was the interio plastic trim garnish, in the area of the factory sub. I essentially cut out the shape of my box, so it could recess further back into the wall of the MDX, right against the frame structure, rather than rest up against the plastic trim. I gained about 1-2 " in doing this, which I really needed, to keep the box from coming out too far. That pic in the link looks like it comes out past the wheel well, but mine is actually right in line with the wheel well, so overall max cargo width is not impeded.
In fact, I have already ordered and received that plastic panel for future replacement, sitting on a shelf in my garage for some day down the road...simply take out the old trim and sub box, and pop on the new panel and nothing different from the way I bought the MDX (other than dynamatted)
No metal has been cut or modified in the install....although a few small plastic trim pieces here and there have switches , etc. in them...usually I try to "sacrifice" the smallest, easiest and least expensive parts to replace....(B pillars for example are cheap to replace, and a good location to place switches or indicator lights for the middle row...)
I ended up getting the same 12" woofer from Alpine in though, by building out of fibreglass a build out area for the magnet which goes through the metal hole where the factory sub was....total box cubic feet is around .70 which is fine for this sub....the project is now complete and I'll post some pics.....maybe through a new thread.... I love the finish (vinyl or paint?) in that picture...I just went with carpet, for durability in the trunk area....I find it is more foregiving to work with than vinyl also....I'll leave that to the pros! |
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| jedge78 |
| thanks for the info....really appreciate it |
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| Curtsan |
| Here is the link to some of the same, and new pictures in the gallery....The sub box ones are near the end... |
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| Curtsan |
MDXXXX
Hey, thanks for inserting that...I was so busy posting pics, I forgot to hit paste with the link.... |
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