| Rosiesdad |
| I have a 03 MDX, 4500 miles. Never thought the steering was precise and it doesn't steer well at all in snow. Thought it might just be me getting used to this car. But the other day while in my garage I tried turning the steering wheel with the engine off. I heard a metal clunking like worn ball joint banging inside its socket or something not bolted tight. Made the trip to the service department and after listening to my car the mech. went straight to a new X sitting nearby. That car did the exact same thing. So he passed it off as normal. Somehow I don't think it's normal. I tried a Acutra TL of a friend and his doesn't do it. My wifes Toyota don't do it, and I've had a few Hondas over the years that didn't do it. I was wondering if it's a defect in all 03 X's. Can anybody else try this with their X and let me know if they hear any noise. I just don't like the sound of this, don't seem normal to me. I read all the claims from others about how great this car is in the snow. I can't agree as far as the steering goes. Switching lanes from one rut to another and the car gets nasty trying to pull the steering wheel out of my hand. On slush I just don't get a feeling of confidence like I had with other Hondas. Is it me, or does anyone notice this. Is it related to my clunking noise ? Thanks in advance for any help |
|
|
| hammermdx |
| My 02 does not exhibit any of these symptoms. You may want to try another dealer or tell the dealer you went to that you don't feel safe in your X, make sure they write the safe part on the service order. This sometimes causes them to pay more attention. Good luck and let us know how you make out. |
|
|
| Rosiesdad |
| Yeah well I'm sure this is going to be a long drawn out ordeal. I hate dealing with dealers and their mechanics who treat you like your stupid. This is probably the same trained mechanic who installed my trailer hitch and forgot to tighten four of the bolts which I found and fixed. Well thanks for your comments. It just helps me build up the resolve to talk to these guys. |
|
|
| BOCAMDX |
| My 03 steering rack has the same noise with the engine off....It is normal and I was told it is not advisable to turn any power steering without the hydraulics running. |
|
|
| Rosiesdad |
quote:
Originally posted by BOCAMDX
My 03 steering rack has the same noise with the engine off....It is normal and I was told it is not advisable to turn any power steering without the hydraulics running.
I'm sure all the 03's probably do the same. Just curious why I can't find another vehicle that does it. Do you find that your steering is sharp, precise and tight ? Mine seems to be a wee bit rubbery. Of course I could just be getting paranoid about this whole thing. |
|
|
| BOCAMDX |
| The steering is not quite Germanic in nature but tops as Japanese vehicles go...I find it very stable at 80-85...The only time I find a steering problem is when you lay into the gas too much and it leaps foward...It can get a touch floaty as you blow by someone....The only other thing is I'm tall and I just wish the steering wheel telescoped so I could be more comfortable with my right arm on the console when cruising long distance. |
|
|
| vicpai |
quote:
Originally posted by Rosiesdad
I have a 03 MDX, 4500 miles. Never thought the steering was precise and it doesn't steer well at all in snow. Thought it might just be me getting used to this car. But the other day while in my garage I tried turning the steering wheel with the engine off. I heard a metal clunking like worn ball joint banging inside its socket or something not bolted tight. Made the trip to the service department and after listening to my car the mech. went straight to a new X sitting nearby. That car did the exact same thing. So he passed it off as normal. Somehow I don't think it's normal. I tried a Acutra TL of a friend and his doesn't do it. My wifes Toyota don't do it, and I've had a few Hondas over the years that didn't do it. I was wondering if it's a defect in all 03 X's. Can anybody else try this with their X and let me know if they hear any noise. I just don't like the sound of this, don't seem normal to me. I read all the claims from others about how great this car is in the snow. I can't agree as far as the steering goes. Switching lanes from one rut to another and the car gets nasty trying to pull the steering wheel out of my hand. On slush I just don't get a feeling of confidence like I had with other Hondas. Is it me, or does anyone notice this. Is it related to my clunking noise ? Thanks in advance for any help
......and I'm not at all pleased with the MDX's handling and steering response :28: . I took the vehicle twice to 2 different dealerships to complain, but they say there is nothing abnormal or wrong. The vehicle "wanders" ever so slightly on the freeway requiring constant miniscule corrections. It also feels like it has a lot of "PLAY" or "FLEX" (to use another word) just off center :( which gives it a very IMPRECISE feeling and sensation (Where are those car mag reviewers that gloated over the "razor precise" steering :rolleyes: ) Additionally, the steering seems to have a slight "LAG" or "DELAYED" response to input, again resulting in my overcorrecting sometimes :( .....and when I take gradual curves, or come out of them, the vehicle seems to get "unsettled" during the manuver. The service advisors swear up and down, that there's nothing wrong with the shocks........Also, where is the "TORQUE-SENSING" VARIABLE ASSIST POWER STEERING?? :confused: .....seems like it doesn't "stiffen" nor "loosen up" during high speed driving or low speed manuvers :rolleyes: (I'm beginning to wonder if that could be the culprit??) .......Unfortunately, if these service techs can't diagnose something, you get the standard "everything is normal" response :mad: .....Guess, I'll just have to live with it :( |
|
|
| Rosiesdad |
quote:
Originally posted by vicpai
......and I'm not at all pleased with the MDX's handling and steering response :28: . I took the vehicle twice to 2 different dealerships to complain, but they say there is nothing abnormal or wrong. The vehicle "wanders" ever so slightly on the freeway requiring constant miniscule corrections. It also feels like it has a lot of "PLAY" or "FLEX" (to use another word) just off center :( which gives it a very IMPRECISE feeling and sensation (Where are those car mag reviewers that gloated over the "razor precise" steering :rolleyes: ) Additionally, the steering seems to have a slight "LAG" or "DELAYED" response to input, again resulting in my overcorrecting sometimes :( .....and when I take gradual curves, or come out of them, the vehicle seems to get "unsettled" during the manuver. The service advisors swear up and down, that there's nothing wrong with the shocks........Also, where is the "TORQUE-SENSING" VARIABLE ASSIST POWER STEERING?? :confused: .....seems like it doesn't "stiffen" nor "loosen up" during high speed driving or low speed manuvers :rolleyes: (I'm beginning to wonder if that could be the culprit??) .......Unfortunately, if these service techs can't diagnose something, you get the standard "everything is normal" response :mad: .....Guess, I'll just have to live with it :(
Yep, that's it. You've explained the problem better then I did. I also wondered if it had anything to do with the power steering " variable assist" I really wonder why no one else seems to notice the same. |
|
|
| jpinto |
I had that same problem before the VIBRATION started...that's a whole other story. At highway speeds, it feels like I hit a tuning fork extremely hard & held onto it. The vibration goes through my wrist & arms, and makes my hands numb. It is not an actual "shimmy" but an undeniable, headache of a vibration. It also hesitates after curves or turns, creeping it's way back little by little, vibrating along the way.
Driving from NJ to FL in the X was NOT a pleasurable experience. But the steering feels a little tighter since the vibration started up. I think I prefer the loose steering to this.
I can't wait to trade it in! |
|
|
| BOCAMDX |
| Your problem is almost certainly a tire that is out of round and must be replaced...It is also possible that you threw a weight and as the wheels go in and out of 'phase' you notice it more. Either way they need to do some detailed analysis. |
|
|
| feliz |
| Mine doesn't have any of the symptoms described. |
|
|
| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by feliz
Mine doesn't have any of the symptoms described.
Ditto, smooth as silk especially at speed. Very predictable and easy handling in the mountains, esp for an SUV.
Turning the wheel with no power and standing still is tough on the steering linkage. Not so bad if at least the car is rolling and you lost the power assist. No fun, but it can still be driven. |
|
|
| rvehock |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
Ditto, smooth as silk especially at speed. Very predictable and easy handling in the mountains, esp for an SUV.
Make that three in a row, mine is as smooth as silk!!! |
|
|
| feliz |
This may be a bit off-topic but after reading all the posts regarding "clunks, vibration, gas pedal flutter, brake clicking, wind noise" etc I went out to a lonely stretch of highway (from the Eagles song) and checked out my fairly new MDX (I'm retired and don't have a life). I mainly tried to find a quiet spot as I live in a urban area and it's hard to find quiet!!
I drove it under nearly every possible condition and could not find any of the problems I've read about on this board, not even a slight one. You would wonder if these vehicles are coming off the same assembly line. If someone is having problems it's not all MDXs and the dealer should have to recify the problem. |
|
|
| frostyra |
| Smooth, precise, and fairly quiet -- but the snow problem may be related to the small amount of clearance behind the front wheels; snow builds-up quickly between the tires and fenders, and causes a drag when trying to steer, which could account for "trying to pull the steering wheel out of your hands". The only cure seems to be to stop and scrape out the excess snow. Luckily, we have little snow in central NC, so it's not a big deal here. |
|
|
| fzie |
| I just got my new '03 X last Thursday. I have noticed nothing so far in a mix of city/highway driving in the way of clunks, bumps, pulls, sloshes, or anything else untowards. So far, the X is everything I was told it would be and then some. |
|
|
| DaleB |
If you notice strange noises when you drive 'normally' then bring it in.
Like that old joke where the guy goes to the doctor "Hey, Doc, my arm hurts like hell when I do this!"..
"So don't do that, idiot!"
Sorry, almost past my bedtime...:o |
|
|
| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
...the guy goes to the doctor "Hey, Doc, my arm hurts like hell when I do this!".. "So don't do that, idiot!"..
That's one of my favorite one liners... I occasionally paraphrase it with some of my users...:2: |
|
|
| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxxxx
That's one of my favorite one liners... I occasionally paraphrase it with some of my users...:2:
and it never does any good, but makes you feel better temporarily...:2: |
|
|
| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
and it never does any good, but makes you feel better temporarily...:2:
Precisely!:D |
|
|
| jpinto |
feliz & frostyra:
I had the same experience as you until I had my 15K service. I got it back screwed up. Have you had a service yet?
I hope you don't run into the same problems I am having, because it sucks. I used to love driving this car,a nd now I HATE it! That vibration in the steering wheel goes right through me, and I am wondering if it will slowly cause nerve damage in my hands, wrists & arms (yes, it's THAT bad)...and Acura mechanics say "UHHH, I don't feel anything unusual..." Creeps! |
|
|
| feliz |
jpinto:
WOW!! Sounds bad. No I haven't had a service yet and after having read your experience I'm not looking forward to it.
I don't think it's right and I wouldn't accept the dealer's response. I test drove a lot of MDxs (every time I took my CL or TL in for service my salesman would throw me the keys for an MDX and let me drive it while I was waiting) and I never found one that vibrated as yours does. Hope you get it corrected. |
|
|
| frostyra |
quote:
Originally posted by jpinto
feliz & frostyra:
I had the same experience as you until I had my 15K service. I got it back screwed up. Have you had a service yet?
Yes. I believe in servicing under the Severe schedule, so I've had service every 3750 miles; I'll be taking it in for the 22,500 service in a couple of weeks. If there are no warranty issues involved, I take it to the Honda dealer for service, as they're more convenient to my home. |
|
|
| manus1980 |
quote:
Originally posted by vicpai
......and I'm not at all pleased with the MDX's handling and steering response :28: . I took the vehicle twice to 2 different dealerships to complain, but they say there is nothing abnormal or wrong. The vehicle "wanders" ever so slightly on the freeway requiring constant miniscule corrections. It also feels like it has a lot of "PLAY" or "FLEX" (to use another word) just off center :( which gives it a very IMPRECISE feeling and sensation (Where are those car mag reviewers that gloated over the "razor precise" steering :rolleyes: ) Additionally, the steering seems to have a slight "LAG" or "DELAYED" response to input, again resulting in my overcorrecting sometimes :( .....and when I take gradual curves, or come out of them, the vehicle seems to get "unsettled" during the manuver. The service advisors swear up and down, that there's nothing wrong with the shocks........Also, where is the "TORQUE-SENSING" VARIABLE ASSIST POWER STEERING?? :confused: .....seems like it doesn't "stiffen" nor "loosen up" during high speed driving or low speed manuvers :rolleyes: (I'm beginning to wonder if that could be the culprit??) .......Unfortunately, if these service techs can't diagnose something, you get the standard "everything is normal" response :mad: .....Guess, I'll just have to live with it :(
Whenever I'm driving someone else's car on the highway for the first time I find myself making continuous efforts to keep straight. Then once I get use to the vehicle and relax a bit the cars always seem to stay on track with little effort. Try loosening up a bit with one hand on the wheel and see if that helps at all. ;) |
|
|
| shootist |
quote:
Originally posted by jpinto
feliz & frostyra:
I... until I had my 15K service. I got it back screwed up. ...now I HATE it! That vibration in the steering wheel goes right through me
A wise poster mentioned that you might want to try unlatching your steering wheel tilt, change the tilt, and re-tighten it. I have no idea why or if this would work, but it sure is easy to try. |
|
|
| alaturka |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxxxx
Precisely!:D
Reminds me of a problem I had with my Corolla many yrs ago. At high speed, it felt like the wheel would come off. I went thru real hell as I had to commute from NJ to MA every week. I think it eventually turned out to be a rim plus tire fit issue. I still do not know how and why it went away.
I love my 2003 MDX now. Very smooth. Especially since it is replacing my good old 300D'84! Yes, there is that "klunk" at low speed brakes, and I did have to attend to the fold-down seat lever etc.. but overall, it delivers what I expected.
I am counting on you guys here. Dealers are like doctors I found out. You have to tell them exactly what is wrong, then they are useful, especially if it is not visible. |
|
|
| Rosiesdad |
quote:
Originally posted by Rosiesdad
I have a 03 MDX, 4500 miles. Never thought the steering was precise and it doesn't steer well at all in snow. Thought it might just be me getting used to this car. But the other day while in my garage I tried turning the steering wheel with the engine off. I heard a metal clunking like worn ball joint banging inside its socket or something not bolted tight. Made the trip to the service department and after listening to my car the mech. went straight to a new X sitting nearby. That car did the exact same thing. So he passed it off as normal. Somehow I don't think it's normal. I tried a Acutra TL of a friend and his doesn't do it. My wifes Toyota don't do it, and I've had a few Hondas over the years that didn't do it. I was wondering if it's a defect in all 03 X's. Can anybody else try this with their X and let me know if they hear any noise. I just don't like the sound of this, don't seem normal to me. I read all the claims from others about how great this car is in the snow. I can't agree as far as the steering goes. Switching lanes from one rut to another and the car gets nasty trying to pull the steering wheel out of my hand. On slush I just don't get a feeling of confidence like I had with other Hondas. Is it me, or does anyone notice this. Is it related to my clunking noise ? Thanks in advance for any help
We all missing the point a bit here. Mostly because I didn't explain it properly the first time. After a lot more miles and checking and thinking. The whole thing is exactlly like the reviews in magazines when they say poor emergency handling. There is no vibration, no buzzing. Just smooth but the faster you go over 40mph. The more rubbery and less responsive the steering gets. Imagine if you were crusing at 75 on a way out interstate. Not paying attention, when all of sudden you look up and see a deer in front of you. I don't want to think of the result. With the reaction times and imprecise steering of my X, there is going to be a problem. My first question is why there is a very small amount of people who notice this. Is it just with my X ?? I firmly belive now that it all has to do with the torque sensing power steering and the way it handles the steering. Whether it normal or abnormal, whether it just a few vehicles or all of them. I need to find a fix, modification or something becasue this will someday cause an accident ! None of this seems to happen below 35mph. Now I'm not a physics engineer but I don't believe speed alone would cause such a change, also because the more you move the wheel at speed the worse it gets. |
|
|
| vicpai |
.......the techs at South Bay Acura on Tuesday. They're gonna have me drive another MDX for comparison purposes :rolleyes: and I'm supposedly going to be speaking with a Technician directly to describe the issue.
Bottom Line: I have decided to not let them off the hook so easily, EVEN IF THIS TURNS OUT INTO A LEGAL BATTLE WITH ACURA!! Personally, I don't care if this is "a characteristic of the vehicle" or whatever these service guys want to call it (just because they don't have a clue how to fix it) - FYI, the power steering FROZE (momentarily) on me twice, when I was trying to make a QUICK steering manuver - there's definitely something wrong within the system!! (it's either a DESIGN FLAW or a problem - In either case, I expect a resolution!!). Besides this, I was sold a vehicle which supposedly has VARIABLE ASSIST POWER STEERING - the vehicle does not have this feature as far as I can tell, which amounts to false advertising! (if they keep continuing to say "everything is normal" :rolleyes: , I can get them on this one)
Rosiedad, just as you say, I'm almost convinced by now that part of the problem has to do with the so-called "Torque sensing" variable assist power steering which is providing the "assist" randomly/unevenly, thereby resulting in an imprecise/non-linear and inaccurate feel BETWEEN THE STEERING WHEEL AND THE WHEELS. If all else fails, maybe we could join forces in trying to get this issue resolved?? I'll see what happens on tuesday and will post the result.
FYI, I also tried the same thing (turning the power off and rotating the steering wheel and heard the same clunking noise as though there was freeplay in the linkages - a very disturbing noise) |
|
|
| Rosiesdad |
quote:
Originally posted by vicpai
.......the techs at South Bay Acura on Tuesday. They're gonna have me drive another MDX for comparison purposes :rolleyes: and I'm supposedly going to be speaking with a Technician directly to describe the issue.
Bottom Line: I have decided to not let them off the hook so easily, EVEN IF THIS TURNS OUT INTO A LEGAL BATTLE WITH ACURA!! Personally, I don't care if this is "a characteristic of the vehicle" or whatever these service guys want to call it (just because they don't have a clue how to fix it) - FYI, the power steering FROZE (momentarily) on me twice, when I was trying to make a QUICK steering manuver - there's definitely something wrong within the system!! (it's either a DESIGN FLAW or a problem - In either case, I expect a resolution!!). Besides this, I was sold a vehicle which supposedly has VARIABLE ASSIST POWER STEERING - the vehicle does not have this feature as far as I can tell, which amounts to false advertising! (if they keep continuing to say "everything is normal" :rolleyes: , I can get them on this one)
Rosiedad, just as you say, I'm almost convinced by now that part of the problem has to do with the so-called "Torque sensing" variable assist power steering which is providing the "assist" randomly/unevenly, thereby resulting in an imprecise/non-linear and inaccurate feel BETWEEN THE STEERING WHEEL AND THE WHEELS. If all else fails, maybe we could join forces in trying to get this issue resolved?? I'll see what happens on tuesday and will post the result.
FYI, I also tried the same thing (turning the power off and rotating the steering wheel and heard the same clunking noise as though there was freeplay in the linkages - a very disturbing noise)
I am very interested in hearing the results of your appointment at the dealer. I firmly believe now that it's all in the " torque sensing" steering in that the sensing part is going wacko. I know this is a SUV and it wont have steering like a BMW 330 but I've driven large 35k plus gross weight trucks with better steering reaction. I really love this vehicle other then the steering and want to keep it but this problem makes me wonder if I want to trade it away, because I know someday this will cause a problem in an emergency situatuion, not to mention it's just plain annoying. I also wondered if it only applies to vehicles with the tow package and the included cooling, since there aren't a lot of others noticing the same thing. I also have the dealer installed tow package. If I can help at all , don't hesitate to ask. |
|
|
| feliz |
Are you sure the MDX uses torque sensing power steering and not engine speed sensitive? From Acura Canada's web site "The MDX's steering is tuned for quick, linear, car-like response and sensitive feel-and the engine speed sensing power steering is high for parking manoevers and low at highway speeds"
I do notice the Honda Pilot uses torque sensitive power steering though. After reading some of the above posts I was going to try testing my steering to see if mine worked OK but it would make a difference how I tested it depending on what type we have. Just curious. |
|
|
| vicpai |
I took the car in on tuesday to South Bay Acura, and spoke with the technician, who claims there is nothing wrong with the steering (and that it's all in my head) ..........They made all kinds of excuses for not having another MDX for me to drive and compare......figures :rolleyes: (THIS TYPICALLY HORRENDOUS ACURA SERVICE WAS TO BE EXPECTED ANYWAYS)
Finally the guy (technician) said that "just to satisfy you :rolleyes: we'll do an alignment and I'll "toe it in" a little more to give it a more on-center feel" ........BOTTOM LINE: This did not help at all. The steering still feels as VAGUE AS EVER. Now, more than ever, I'm COMPLETELY CONVINCED that this problem has NOTHING to do with any of the suspension components at all (alignment etc. will not solve the issue) .......It's definitely a POWER STEERING SYSTEM problem!! Rosiedad, maybe like you said, it has something to do with the power steering cooler that was installed with the tow package that is making the power steering hydraulics go on the fritz?? ......or possibly the "torque-sensing" device??
Now they tell me to give them a couple days. The service advisor is going to speak with the Manager and they're supposedly going to get the Acura tech line involved (as I think it's beyond their scope)
I also tried to very carefully observe what's happening. It seems as though the "assist" fades away sometimes and comes on in varying amounts at other times. It is especially noticeable when the road dips on one side and the wheel follows that direction, when you try to correct, it's really hard to steer at first and then when you tug at the steering wheel a bit more, it kinda snaps into place (like there was a lag or delayed response......."rubber-band-like" response) - hard to describe :( ......same thing happens when approaching a gradual curve in the road. You turn the steering slightly - NOTHING HAPPENS - then you give it some more input and all of a sudden it TURNS TOO MUCH (again like a "rubber band" effect) .....now you've got to counter this again to compensate and bring it back on track, resulting in a series of little corrections - this can get very tiring after a while!!
I'm really very dissappointed as I really love this vehicle in every other aspect, besides it's horrendous steering: Butter smooth engine, very quiet, gobs of power, out-of-the-universe Navi system etc. |
|
|
| vicpai |
quote:
Originally posted by manus1980
............. Try loosening up a bit with one hand on the wheel and see if that helps at all. ;)
......what I CANNOT do, but would love to!. I could keep one hand, relax and drive my old 4-Runner, but if I try that with my MDX on the freeway, I'm guaranteed to meet with an accident. With the MDX I have to concentrate like hell and wonder when the next "sudden" deviation (with no sensation in the steering wheel) is going to happen and what "series of corrections" I have to make to the steering wheel to prevent it from drifting into either lanes on my right and left. |
|
|
| Rosiesdad |
quote:
Originally posted by vicpai
I took the car in on tuesday to South Bay Acura, and spoke with the technician, who claims there is nothing wrong with the steering (and that it's all in my head) ..........They made all kinds of excuses for not having another MDX for me to drive and compare......figures :rolleyes: (THIS TYPICALLY HORRENDOUS ACURA SERVICE WAS TO BE EXPECTED ANYWAYS)
Finally the guy (technician) said that "just to satisfy you :rolleyes: we'll do an alignment and I'll "toe it in" a little more to give it a more on-center feel" ........BOTTOM LINE: This did not help at all. The steering still feels as VAGUE AS EVER. Now, more
than ever, I'm COMPLETELY CONVINCED that this problem has NOTHING to do with any of the suspension components at all (alignment etc. will not solve the issue) .......It's definitely a POWER STEERING SYSTEM problem!! Rosiedad, maybe like you said, it has something to do with the power steering cooler that was installed with the tow package that is making the power steering hydraulics go on the fritz?? ......or possibly the "torque-sensing" device??
Now they tell me to give them a couple days. The service advisor is going to speak with the Manager and they're supposedly going to get the Acura tech line involved (as I think it's beyond their scope)
I also tried to very carefully observe what's happening. It seems as though the "assist" fades away sometimes and comes on in varying amounts at other times. It is especially noticeable when the road dips on one side and the wheel follows that direction, when you try to correct, it's really hard to steer at first and then when you tug at the steering wheel a bit more, it kinda snaps into place (like there was a lag or delayed response......."rubber-band-like" response) - hard to describe :( ......same thing happens when approaching a gradual curve in the road. You turn the steering slightly - NOTHING HAPPENS - then you give it some more input and all of a sudden it TURNS TOO MUCH (again like a "rubber band" effect) .....now you've got to counter this again to compensate and bring it back on track, resulting in a series of little corrections - this can get very tiring after a while!!
I'm really very dissappointed as I really love this vehicle in every other aspect, besides it's horrendous steering: Butter smooth engine, very quiet, gobs of power, out-of-the-universe Navi system etc.
I guess we expected that response from the service tech. BTW I only notice the problem over 45 MPH, how bout you ? If the torque sensing is in the pump ( which I believe it is ) then how about they put a 3.2 or RL pump on our vehicle and see how that works. |
|
|
| DaleB |
| Maybe it's time for a Poll on this problem. After almost 15,000 miles of all kinds of drving I can not relate to it. |
|
|
| Rosiesdad |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
Maybe it's time for a Poll on this problem. After almost 15,000 miles of all kinds of drving I can not relate to it.
It's certinally not a question of we are seeing something that is not there. We're not imagining something. I would love to drive your vehicle or any one else's who doesn't seem to do this. Then take both to a dealer and show them the difference. Anybody in the South Jersey/Phila Camden county, Gloucester County area who has an MDX without the problem and would like to try mine is welcome. Just to be sure I am not crazy. I keep an open mind. Prove to me my steering does not suck ! |
|
|
| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by Rosiesdad
It's certinally not a question of we are seeing something that is not there. We're not imagining something. I would love to drive your vehicle or any one else's who doesn't seem to do this. Then take both to a dealer and show them the difference. Anybody in the South Jersey/Phila Camden county, Gloucester County area who has an MDX without the problem and would like to try mine is welcome. Just to be sure I am not crazy. I keep an open mind. Prove to me my steering does not suck !
No one is questioning YOUR experience. It is just not a problem that is frequently reported by many forum members.
Neither are transmission failures, but they do happen. But a poll would put it in perspective as to how many find the steering problematic. I am very sensitive to handling in cars, and would certainly be ticked if I was experiencing the same symptoms. |
|
|
| TheWorm |
Rosiesdad,
How close are you to Park Ave Acura? During the first model year they spearheaded a number of issues (including the infamous "thud") and seemed capable and interested in solving problems that many other dealers either couldn't or wouldn't.
Might be worth a pitstop there to check in. |
|
|
| vicpai |
.......do you know of any such "foward thinking" dealerships in the California area. I'm willing to drive all the way to Northern California or the surrounding states if it means getting this thing resolved. (In the event I'm unable to get satisfactory results from South Bay Acura)
Thanks!
Vic |
|
|
| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by vicpai
.......do you know of any such "foward thinking" dealerships in the California area. I'm willing to drive all the way to Northern California or the surrounding states if it means getting this thing resolved. (In the event I'm unable to get satisfactory results from South Bay Acura)
Thanks!
Vic
I would suggest Desert Acura in Palm Springs, Hopkins in Redwood City, and yes the infamous Los Gatos Acura...rob is gone but they are conscientious and have lots of fussy NSX owners.
Not much experience yet with University here in Clovis. |
|
|
| vicpai |
quote:
Originally posted by Rosiesdad
I guess we expected that response from the service tech. BTW I only notice the problem over 45 MPH, how bout you ? If the torque sensing is in the pump ( which I believe it is ) then how about they put a 3.2 or RL pump on our vehicle and see how that works.
.......at all speeds. However, in the city at slow speeds it's very slight and happens only when the grain of the road becomes rough/uneven. or the road dips to one side. It becomes really apparent at higher speeds, especially on the freeway. Another instance I notice this, is when it's windy.
Do you think there might be any possibility at all, that it could have something to do with the Power steering cooler that comes with the tow package?? Ever since you mentioned this, earlier in this thread, it got me thinking. For the first 1000 to 1500 miles the vehicle tracked like a laser. Now that I think about it, it seems odd that the tow package was intalled at about the same time (around 1500 mi on the odo) and I began noticing this shortly thereafter. It could be pure coincidence, but it has got me wondering now????...........and even if it has something to do with the "torque sensing" device, maybe the power steering cooler is interfering with it's operation is some way?? |
|
|
| TheWorm |
Vic,
No personal suggestions for Califomia (sorry). In addition to DaleB's suggestions for NorCal, you might peek @ the CL or TL boards to see who's having luck and where -- they're pretty performance oriented and picky, too.
Park Av is the one that was mentioned repeatedly during the diagnosis period of "the thud".
It sounds to me like what's being described might be related to the PS pump -- perhaps it's not cranking out consistent pressure? Wild guess but I can't imagine at least checking it would be that difficult.
If it's the logic in the variable assist, that is a different matter -- but if it were such a software problem *everyone* would be complaining.
So put me down for a bad PS pump or related component that hasn't failed completely but is unable to provide constant/consistent pressure.
BTW, have you checked the PS fluid level? I can't imagine the cooler itself would cause the problem, but the PS fluid should be topped up (post-install) for the extra capacity it provides. That could explain sporadic power during turns for sure. I believe there have been a couple low-fluid issues on the Pilot board when the tech didn't top it off appropriately. |
|
|
| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by TheWorm
Vic,
No personal suggestions for Califomia (sorry). You might peek @ the CL or TL boards to see who's having luck and where -- they're pretty performance oriented and picky, too.
Park Av is the one that was mentioned repeatedly during the diagnosis period of "the thud".
It sounds to me like what's being described might be related to the PS pump -- perhaps it's not cranking out consistent pressure? Wild guess but I can't imagine at least checking it would be that difficult.
If it's the logic in the variable assist, that is a different matter -- but if it were such a software problem *everyone* would be complaining.
So put me down for a bad PS pump or related component that hasn't failed completely but is unable to provide constant/consistent pressure.
BTW, have you checked the PS fluid level? I can't imagine the cooler itself would cause the problem, but the PS fluid should be topped up for the extra capacity it provides. I think.
Was not the PS valving reworked on the 03s? The entire rack and spool assy, is part of the PS system too. Many of us have coolers too, on older models. |
|
|
| TheWorm |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
Was not the PS valving reworked on the 03s? The entire rack and spool assy, is part of the PS system too. Many of us have coolers too, on older models.
I dunno...never checked :D
I'm just taking shots in the dark. But IMO if it were either an inherent design flaw OR bad logic in the software, then everyone would be complaining.
Since not everyone is complaining, it's gotta be a bad part. Somewhere. Just trying to throw out some ideas of which it might be.
Vic's sounds REALLY bad. I sure as hell wouldn't want to be wrestling the car down the road! |
|
|
| vicpai |
| ......the replies, suggestions and ideas! Sure helps to see different perspectives. The Power Steering pump possibility seems quite logical. The tough part now it to find a dealership that is willing to PROACTIVELY INVESTIGATE the cause :( |
|
|
| vicpai |
......I opened the hood to check the power steering fluid level. It was full (upper level), but the fluid in it was "boiling" or "gurgling". Is this normal??? (I had driven the car for a while on the highway). Every time I shut off the engine, I used to hear a "gurgling" noise coming from the right front engine area (behind the glovebox).......now it looks like the noise could be this PS fluid that I saw "bubbling" away the other night!
Do any of you think that this is not normal and could be the source of this steering issue?? ............Anyone else hear a "bubbling/gurgling" noise after shutting off the vehicle at night?? (I say at night, because it's very quiet at around 12am when I return sometimes, and since the noise is subdued, it can be heard clearly then)
The Owners manual says on Pg. 320:
"Always use Honda Power Steering Fluid. If it is not available, you may use another PS fluid as an emergency replacement. However, continued use can cause increased wear and poor steering in cold weather. Have the PS system flushed and refilled with Honda PSF as as soon as possible."
It also says on the same page:
"Turning the steering wheel to full left or right lock and holding it there can damage the power steering pump." (I've never done this, but what if someone at the dealership did??)
It's got me wondering now, if the stup*d tech topped off the PS fluid with some other kind, after installing the Tow Package?? ....or worse yet, carelessly put something else like transmission fluid in there?? :3: ......it specifically says on the very last page of the owner's manual "Do not use ATF (see page 320)"
Gosh!!...I'm beginning to feel like an LAPD detective trying to solve a mystery here :rolleyes:
BTW, I checked the PS fluid level the next morning when the engine was COLD and it was still full at the upper level. |
|
|
| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by vicpai
......I opened the hood to check the power steering fluid level. It was full (upper level), but the fluid in it was "boiling" or "gurgling". Is this normal??? (I had driven the car for a while on the highway). Every time I shut off the engine, I used to hear a "gurgling" noise coming from the right front engine area (behind the glovebox).......now it looks like the noise could be this PS fluid that I saw "bubbling" away the other night!
Do any of you think that this is not normal and could be the source of this steering issue?? ............Anyone else hear a "bubbling/gurgling" noise after shutting off the vehicle at night?? (I say at night, because it's very quiet at around 12am when I return sometimes, and since the noise is subdued, it can be heard clearly then)
The Owners manual says on Pg. 320:
"Always use Honda Power Steering Fluid. If it is not available, you may use another PS fluid as an emergency replacement. However, continued use can cause increased wear and poor steering in cold weather. Have the PS system flushed and refilled with Honda PSF as as soon as possible."
It also says on the same page:
"Turning the steering wheel to full left or right lock and holding it there can damage the power steering pump." (I've never done this, but what if someone at the dealership did??)
It's got me wondering now, if the stup*d tech topped off the PS fluid with some other kind, after installing the Tow Package?? ....or worse yet, carelessly put something else like transmission fluid in there?? :3: ......it specifically says on the very last page of the owner's manual "Do not use ATF (see page 320)"
Gosh!!...I'm beginning to feel like an LAPD detective trying to solve a mystery here :rolleyes:
BTW, I checked the PS fluid level the next morning when the engine was COLD and it was still full at the upper level.
The gurgling sound might indeed be a clue. Are your symptoms worse at higher temperatures?
When it comes to any Honda/Acura fluid that does not specify an equivalent I would use nothing else.
The warning about not keeping the wheel at full lock is common for all vehicles with Power Steering. It develops excessive pressure and can cause seals to fail as well as increase the temperature of the fluid.
Have to remember to check my own and see if the sounds are 'normal'. |
|
|
| feliz |
| Mine definitely does not gurgle, I don't think it's normal. Any air in the system should purge itself in short order. Sounds like it's overheating, possibly due to wrong fluid. Good luck? |
|
|
| vicpai |
South Bay Acura service department finally called me today and my service advisor said that the district rep is meeting with me on Tuesday the 27th of May, in order to "look into" my problem, possibly take an extended test drive to find out what's going on. Will post the results!
In the meanwhile I was talking to one of my clients (an experienced auto mechanic) who said that it sounds like, what he calls "radial-pull". He thinks the tires are defective and are "fighting each other" ......Any thoughts on this?? |
|
|
| jpinto |
It's interesting that you describe it like that, because when I had the tech go on a test drive with me (for the steering vibration) he said he felt it and he said that it felt like the tires were "competing with each other" - although my tires are not defective. I already had two replaced and the problem did not improve or change in any way.
Anyway, my update is now the tech denies feeling it, and they say there is nothing wrong with my vehicle, it is driving "characteristic of an MDX." Either they are full of sh*t or my husband, my mother, 2 of my friends & I are extremely sensitive to vibration! (basically everyone who has driven the car EXCEPT Acura employees!)
Hope we get some resolution here. Good luck with your rep meeting. |
|
|
| strife63 |
quote:
Originally posted by Rosiesdad
But the other day while in my garage I tried turning the steering wheel with the engine off. I heard a metal clunking like worn ball joint banging inside its socket or something not bolted tight.
Could this just be the steering wheel locking mechanism? |
|
|
| Rosiesdad |
quote:
Originally posted by vicpai
South Bay Acura service department finally called me today and my service advisor said that the district rep is meeting with me on Tuesday the 27th of May, in order to "look into" my problem, possibly take an extended test drive to find out what's going on. Will post the results!
In the meanwhile I was talking to one of my clients (an experienced auto mechanic) who said that it sounds like, what he calls "radial-pull". He thinks the tires are defective and are "fighting each other" ......Any thoughts on this??
Yeah.....good luck |
|
|
| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by vicpai
South Bay Acura service department finally called me today and my service advisor said that the district rep is meeting with me on Tuesday the 27th of May, in order to "look into" my problem, possibly take an extended test drive to find out what's going on. Will post the results!
In the meanwhile I was talking to one of my clients (an experienced auto mechanic) who said that it sounds like, what he calls "radial-pull". He thinks the tires are defective and are "fighting each other" ......Any thoughts on this??
A 'batch' of bad Michelins? hmmm.... |
|
|
| vicpai |
I met with the Acura district rep today, and we went on an extended test drive to "see" what I'm feeling. He followed me in another MDX, with 4500 miles on it, for a while on the freeway, and then we exited and swapped cars, so that he could see the difference and then I could see the difference. The moment I drove the other MDX, I noticed the difference. It was like DAY AND NIGHT. The other MDX tracked like a laser, had TWICE the amount of POWER ASSIST at low speeds. I'm almost now beginning to wonder about that VARIABLE ASSIST DEVICE
Anyhow, when we got back the rep said "I did note a slight difference, in that the steering in your vehicle feels a bit more loose and the tires are 'gripping' the road a bit more. However, to me everything seems normal, and it's just the fact that your vehicle has 10,000+ miles on it, and the other one has 'worn' a little less. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the tires or the power steering system." ........YEAH RIGHT, WHAT A FRIGGIN BUNCH OF BS :3:
Then he went on to say: "We'll do another alignment, just to be sure, and we'll do the alignment with someone sitting in it, so as to ensure that the specs are compensated for the weight.". When I asked him if this was gonna resolve the problem, he replied "I cannot guarantee it will change anything because EACH PARTICULAR VEHICLE (emphasis added), has it's own individuality and feel. No two vehicles (MDXs) are gonna feel exactly the same. However, it should at least give the steering a tighter feel after readjusting the alignment specs" - All I can say is: BULL SH*T!!! ......Even before this rep talks alignment, I know this is not gonna do anything. They have ALREADY performed an alignment TWICE without any results, for cryin out loud!! :rolleyes:
I really feel, I'm getting THE SHAFT here! :3: ........The next step might be to pursue LEGAL ACTION (lemon law, arbitration). I would really appreciate it if someone can give me advise!
Rosiedad, maybe we can combine our efforts to FORCE Acura to do something about this. Now, that I've driven another MDX for about 12 miles, I'm LITERALLY AND PHYSICALLY POSITIVE that the steering in my MDX is not at all normal!!!
Laborlitigator do you think I'm up against a brick wall fighting a giant like Acura?? It's just that I feel so helpless against these scoundrels :(
All I want is for them to either DIAGNOSE AND FIX the problem or exchange the vehicle for another MDX!!
Thanks!
Vic |
|
|
| RealWing |
The Service Manual has many checks for steering problems. Some examples:
- Check Rack Guide adjustment
- Check for air in the fluid that may be due to air leak at pump inlet hose
-Check Power Assist
- Measure pump pressures
-check pump relief pressure
-Check flow control valve
-Check for bent rack shaft
-etc
I guess the question for the dealer is: Why are they not following the Service manual diagnostics???????
I also checked the Electrical Manual to see if there is any connection form the computer to the steering system and cant spot any. I'm not sure at this point how the assist is varied. More reading required!!! |
|
|
| vicpai |
Whoa!! :eek:
After almost 11000 miles on the odometer, it finally looks like they have RESOLVED MY MDX's PROBLEM!!!! WOOHOO!! :2: .......life's worth living again!! (just kidding) :D
When South Bay Acura called me, to let me know that my vehicle was "ready" to pick up, I told them that I was going to pursue the lemon law and legal action etc. etc. (I was REALLY P*SSED) .....so the guy said fine, they're washing your car and it should be ready in 15 minutes!
I, then, went to pick up the car, after they supposedly did the alignment (for the 3rd time :rolleyes: ) per the district rep's (Kenneth Lim) specifications. They were supposedly going to put both my MDX and the white MDX, I drove earlier for comparison, on the rack and compare specs to match them exactly, as well as compensate the alignment with someone sitting in the driver's seat (and I thought to myself "yeah, right! what a bunch of baloney!" )
Anyways, just before I was about to take my car and drive off, the Service Manager, John, came to greet me and I got into an extended conversation of the different possiblilites of the steering system being filled with the wrong fluid etc. etc. etc. - stuff discussed earlier in this thread - He seemed like a really nice guy and said they'd investigate into those things further if I was still not satisfied with how the steering felt. He did say that they performed a "steering system pressure test" etc. etc. and they also measured the "bumper to ground height on both sides" and also "rotated the tires". He also said that the district rep, Kenneth Lim was conversing with the Acura Engineers back and forth to eliminate certain things.
Finally, when I drove off, I was in for a REALLLY BIG PLEASANT SURPRISE!! The steering was perfectly tight (just like the white MDX) .....no lag or freeplay at all!! .....As I drove on the street the assist was perfectly weighted and the car tracked straight and true (just like the white MDX). I took it everywhere, including the freeway and it tracks perfectly!! (Yes, just-like-the-white-MDX :D )
My mind is totally boggled. I have no clue what they did, but whatever it was that they did, has completely fixed the issue. Personally, I think they had to have done more than just an alignment. I have a strong suspicion that they took apart the steering wheel and tightened some linkages somewhere. Additionally, the "compensating for someone sitting in the driver's seat" is beginning to make perfect sense, because in retrospect, I recall the vehicle was leaning quite a bit to the left. Now it sits level. Best of all, and most importantly, the steering does not exhibit any "looseness" or "rubber-band-ness" or "freeplay" just off center!!!! .......I'm now a HAPPY CAMPER and all is well again! :) ........I'm still very curious to know what they did :confused: ......will try to find out tomorrow! |
|
|
| m2pc |
Wow,
Thats great. Yes please, if you can find out, it would be good to know. AS for some one sitting to compensate for weight, I dunno about that. being the only fix either.
Anyways, thats great news! |
|
|
| shootist |
| Your experience confirms mine on other cars. If the alignment is off, it feels like the car is wandering around center. The symptoms you described were so severe that I hesitated to mention it. |
|
|
| feliz |
| Good for you vicpai, enjoy your "new" MDX. Persistance can pay off. |
|
|
| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by vicpai
Whoa!! :eek:
After almost 11000 miles on the odometer, it finally looks like they have RESOLVED MY MDX's PROBLEM!!!! WOOHOO!! :2: .......life's worth living again!! (just kidding) :D
The funny thing is it may be something minor that they embarrasingly overlooked. Or even something dangerous like a bad steering link.
The important thing is that it is resolved.
Damn, I was just getting used to your constant whining!!
LOL..kidding! Congrats!!
:2: |
|
|
| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by vicpai
...I'm still very curious to know what they did :confused: ......will try to find out tomorrow!
I am too... what's the verdict?? |
|
|
| mdxer46 |
I posted one of your problems (inconsistent power assist around long turns) on another thread - did not realize you had this same issue.
What was the fix? Is it possible to call the dealer to post the fix for others on the forum? |
|
|
| jpinto |
| Man, I wish they would solve my problem. Lucky dog! |
|
|
|
