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Okay,
So I received my mirror that I ordered from Tim today, and I haven't had any real time to look at it and discover how to dissasemble it -- but my first findings are:
If you tilt the mirror down all the way, you'll notice the reservoir where water is supposed to collect -- on the driver's side mirror, on the right of this reservoir is a drainage hole. If you fold the mirror, then you can see the drainage hole from the outside of the mirror.
In my tests, if you fill the reservoir and the mirror is in the correct horizontal position, then all the water in the reservoir drains out of the hole onto the side of the car where the water mark we're accustomed to appears. Now the question is, why does water remain inside the housing when there's a drainage hole. Unfortunately, the drainage hole only allows water that's accumulated in the reservoir to drain out. If there's water inside the main mirror housing, or if water collects inside the large pipe where the cables feed from the mirror housing through the hinge, then it has no way to escape unless the car is in motion and the water is forced out or jostled over the edge of the pipe.
My thought now is to figure out how to disassemble the mirror housing, and to see what I can do to stop water building up in this pipe, and in the housing behind the mirror.
Pictures to follow...
Rail
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The drain hole from the outside with the mirror folded in.
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The screw pipe where the wires pass thru, I believe when water is sprayed in at a car wash, it may fill up the pipe -- you should be able to see this pipe by bringing your mirror in all the way towards the driver's window.
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Someone else felt that the rubbery/grommet was holding water... that's certainly a possibility - I wet the grommet and it definately acts as a sponge... worse is that the grommet has waffle style pockets where water could build up and sit keeping the grommet wet for days -- In my previous vehicle, they used a similar grommet, but it had a clear plastic gasket which kept water from actually reaching the grommet itself... Perhaps some seran wrap would do the trick...???
The main question is, where does the water come out of - the drain hole, or from the grommet which is behind the plastic molding making contact with the vehicle?
This is a picture of the grommet side of the mirror housing:
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This is a pic of the mirror grommet...
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As discussed in the thread at http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/show...p?threadid=1165, after doing some tests, I believe that water is coming in through the pipe I mentioned above and enters behind the grommet (spongy material) where it can linger and soak through. My idea is to use a silicon caulk to fill the pipe's hole at the top. Because there's no way to disassemble the mirror housing without breaking the mirror (update: actually there is, read my later posts) - this should be able to be done by moving the mirror to its innermost extreme. I will attempt this in the next week and report back.
Here are pictures describing what I believe the problem is caused by:
[img]http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/upload/Mirror(WaterIn).JPG[/img]
Note - when disassembled, as in this picture - I found that any water inside the mirror housing will make its way into the reservoir... so that discounts the idea that the problem is caused by water being left inside the mirror housing. The only way water would stay inside the mirror housing would be if the drainage hole were blocked.
Rail |
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and this is where the water comes out (behind the grommet):
[img]http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/upload/Mirror(Waterout).JPG[/img] |
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| Great post Rail, thanks for all your efforts! You should get lifetime oil changes from Acura if you figure this out... :) |
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I'll repost the complete post I made in the "Weeping Mirror" thread for consolidation - and I'll post the pictures below (Originally posted 4/7/01) :
Well I was at the dealer today -- and they wouldn't perform the surgery (at 2 different dealers)... but they would remove the mirror assemblies from the MDX for me. Their reason was that it wasn't an "Acura approved" job and that they "couldn't warranty it" -- even though I offered to sign accepting any responsibility, they wouldn't do the work... just as well anyway. They removed both mirrors for me and disassembled the mirrors themselves from the mirror assembly -- these were the main steps that I was concerned I would screw up on -- to remove the mirror assembly completely from the MDX, you have to remove the door trim -- although the fix can be performed with the mirrors still attached to the door -- I don't recommend it, 'cause you'll be able to do a much better job of caulking, etc with the mirror assembly removed.
To remove the mirror from the assembly requires that you pull it up so that it unclips from the actuator behind it -- this I left to them. (A new mirror is about $24, the complete assembly incl the mirror is about $120). If you prefer, you can order new mirrors, do the prep work at home and take them in to your dealer to exchange with your old mirror assemblies on the MDX.
I followed only 3 of the steps I had suggested in the previous post -- and I changed the caulk.
Requirements:
1) 2 x GE 100% silicone Rubber Sealant for Window & Door (Clear) - available from Home Depot at $3.47 ea.
2) 1 x Caulking Gun for the above sealant - available from Home Depot at $4.97
3) 1 x Reynold's Plastic Wrap - Clear (I bought 50 sq. ft. and had plenty over.
4) 3-6 x stirring sticks or Q-Tips or Chopsticks (something to help spread the sealant)... I used stirring sticks which were by the coffee machine.
5) Paper towels.
Steps:
1) Have the dealer remove the mirror assemblies from the vehicle
2) Have the dealer remove the mirrors from the mirror assemblies - note there are two cables that are attached to the mirrors for heating... tape over the top one to identify which is which (not that I believe it matters... but just to be safe). Tape the 2 wires to the bottom of the mirror assembly to keep them out of your way while caulking.
3) Have the dealer unscrew the little "star screw" with the white plastic clip and place it to the side. This will allow you to pull the grommet (rubbery foam piece) back from the mirror assembly.
4) Cut the tip of the caulk dispenser nozzle and push a hole into the sealant's seal. Put the sealant into the caulk gun. Have a paper towel available to place it down on while you work. (I performed this surgery in the dealer's waiting room being watched by some fascinated customers BTW).
Make sure that the inside of the mirror assembly is dry and if there is any moisture on the grommet - dry it with the paper towels... also dry behind the grommet area.
5) Start by applying sealant into the 'pipe' where the cable harness feeds through the assembly. Then proceed to fill the complete 'pipe' side of the assembly with sealant... Water gets through not only through the pipe, so it's important that the complete pipe side is covered. Make sure that you also don't get any sealant on the actuator mechanism, and that you keep the sealant behind where the mirror itself will reattach. Also try and smoothe a trough in the sealant for water to run down into the resorvour... you don't want to create any spots in the sealant where water will pool or get trapped. Use the stirrers (or sticks) to shape and smoothe the sealant. When you've done one mirror, move to the next - allowing this to cure a little before the next step.
6) Go back to the first mirror you started with, and tear off a piece of reynold's Plastic Wrap about 15 or so inches long. You're free to do whatever you wish really, but I lay it down with about 6 inches to my left and 9 to my right and I pierced a hole in the middle.... I then fed the harness with the connectors through this hole and folded the plastic wrap around the grommet until it was completely covered -- if there was a spot which wasn't covered, I tore off more wrap and added it. You can't make it too tight around the grommet, as the grommet still has to be able to "seat" back against the mirror assembly... but I had no problem getting it "comfortable". Test that when the grommet is placed in its normal position, that the plastic wrap won't extend over the edges of the plastic mounting piece -- this was actually pretty easy to do. Once you're happy with the wrap job, pierce holes through the 3 mounting screw positions, so that the mechanic will be able to reattach the mirror assembly. Finally, in the middle, pierce a little hole for the screw attached to the clip you had the dealer remove in step #3. Finger tighten this in to hold the grommet against the mirror assembly for now (you won't be able to screw it in very far by hand, but it should hold).
7) Fold back the grommet at the bottom of the mirror assembly (I had someone else fold it back and hold it for me)... and fill the "exit hole" where the cable harness exits the mirror assembly, with sealant. Fill in as much of the 3 sections at the bottom that you can -- this is your last defense against water reaching the grommet.
Great - you're done. Take it back to the mechanic who can tighten the screw mentioned in step #6 and reattach the mirror taken off in step #2.
Let the sealant cure for at least 24 hours - try and keep the vehicle dry.
I'll try and post some pictures in the next few days or so. I'll have to recreate what I did on the "test" mirror assembly I have at home -- I didn't take pictures today while performing the surgery.
Just so you know - I had my car washed last on Monday (5 days ago) and I drove to the dealer today in a very slight rain.... when I got there they were very skeptical about me... however when they removed the mirror assemblies and I showed them the grommets - they were soaked through and water was dripping out of the area behind where the grommet sits (between the grommet and the assembly)... By the time I was done, they didn't think I was such an idiot (perhaps :))
I know this was a long post - but I wanted to post it while what I did was still fresh in my (old) mind... It's raining on & off today, but as soon as the weather clears - and the sealant's had time to cure -- I'll let y'all know if the operation was a success. By all indications it should be completely cured.
Finally, the dealer did write the following on the work order:
Customer request remove mirrors for customer - Removed mirrors and reinstalled after customer modified mirrors - Note: No warranty on any repairs to mirrors/possible wind noise
Cost for labour: $105.00
I didn't notice any additional wind noise at 55-65mph on my drive home... I did notice slight more road noise now that I have my silver powder coated side steps installed tho'... but that's another thread :)
Best regards to all, and let's hope this does it.
Rail |
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There is some white residue that you won't get on your mirror -- that is left over from previous attempts at caulking with DAP white caulk.... I switched to the GE 100% silicone which is better.
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This is another look at inside the mirror, you can also see the plastic wrap. If you have the Touring Package, remember that the passenger mirror still has to have clearance to tilt all the way down when you're in reverse.
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Here's a picture of the grommet covered with the Plastic Wrap -- with the clip screwed in finger tight. The circles I drew are around where the mounting screws will mount the mirror to the MDX.
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This is a picture of the sealant behind the mirror (between the mirror assembly and the grommet).
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I performed this repair on Saturday - the repair requires 24 hours for the sealant to cure... and it's rained since then... so I haven't had the opportunity to wash the vehicle yet. As soon as I have conclusive results, I'll post them. I am confident that this will fix the problem.
Rail |
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Oh, this is the type of sealant that I used.
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Rail: I can't begin to tell you how impressed I am with the time and effort you put in to get to the root of the problem. If and when Acura ever cops out to there being a problem with leaking mirrors, the company ought to hire you as the "Leaking Mirror Fix-It Project Manager."
Having said that, I'm far too lazy and have too many thumbs on my two hands to attack the problem in the manner you did. So for me, it's Ziploc bags for my car wash excursions for the duration.
Thanks again for all your hard work! |
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Thanks Bill
To me it was either fix the problem or get rid of the MDX... I also have a hard time being told something can't be fixed :)
I owned my last car for a long time -- if I was going to own this one for even half the time, I wouldn't want to have to put Ziploc bags over the mirrors every time I have the MDX washed for the next seven years.
Best regards.
Rail |
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Well I'm happy to announce that my fix works like a champ!!!
I just had my car washed and detailed again (more Zaino Z-2) and took it for a long drive -- every other time previously it's had water drips and splatters by the time I took the short drive home (less than a mile) from the detail store. Today, not a drop on a much longer drive!!!
Very Happy!!!!
Rail |
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Wow. A lot of time and effort was put in here.
Congrats Rail!!!!
(Great pic's, by the way)
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Rail:
Thank you so much for your DETAILED information on the mirror fix. I'm so glad to hear it worked out for you. I too will not own a black vehicle that leaks water down the side doors every time I wash it or it rains. I will be following your instructions to a tee in the next few weeks. Have to install running boards, painted rear deflector and mudguards first. However, mirror fix will definitely be the next job. This problem is unacceptable!
Now if only the crappy Bose audio system can be re-worked.
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| Thanks Rail for all the details on the mirror fix! I'm very impressed. Glad to hear that it was a success!! Wish I could perform this surgery on my MDX too, but I definitely know that I am not capable. Hope that Acura learns of this and can provide the work under warranty. I would even be glad to pay for it, if they would even *do* the work. Hey, if you're ever in the SF bay area, and are looking for a few extra bucks... ;) Thanks again. Excellent job!! |
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Thanks guys
I called Acura TLC today to bltch about the Mahogany touch up paint being unavailable since day one... and mentioned this fix -- the guy was aware of the problem, but unaware of the fix. He said he'd check it out - he knew of this site. Perhaps he'll pass it on to the powers that be.
Washed the MDX again today -- and once again... no water spraying onto the sides on the trip home. Note, you'll still have to blow out any extra water that's in the mirror assembly and dry off water that gets trapped in the gutter below the mirror and the rear window panels... but that's normal.
Regards.
Rail |
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Rail; I looks to me based on your experiment with the mirror, that two items could be produced that would simplify the mirror sealing. 1. a gasket that is closed cell or made of solid silicone rubber, and 2. a tight fitting cap that could be pulled down over the mirror side of the screw pipe. I would think a new gasket could be used to create a reusable mould to cast solid non-porous gasket and it would be necessary to make a model of the screw pipe cap/gasket and cast replicas.
Jusy an idea at this point.
Hal Davey |
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