| laborlitigator |
After practicing for 5 years, I finally engaged my first labor and employment trial (my area of specialty). For some reason, I've been able to settle all if not most of my cases prior to actually reaching the box.
Well, this past week the County of Hudson (New Jersey) called my bluff and put me through a two-week trial. I was up against a twenty year veteran with about 100 trials under his belt.
OBTW, I represented two corrections officers who claimed they were retaliated for complaining about discrimination in the workplace. Anyway to make a long story short, after 5 days of testimony and four hours of deliberation, a verdict. I run back to the courthouse (right around the corner from my office) and await the jury to be lead in. (Seven in jurors since one had to be excused due to family illness).
Madam forewoman. "Were the plaintiffs retaliated against?"
" YES."
Madam forewoman, how much in damages are the plaintiff's to be compensated?
"$325,000."
Ladies and gentlemen, beers are on the house! |
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| socalJD |
So does that mean you're entitled to 33% of the award, or do you work on straight fees ?
BTW - make mine a Heineken . . . |
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| laborlitigator |
Under our state's discrimination law (as well as the federal counterpart), we are entitled to our retainer fee (1/3) AND attorneys' fees on top of that.
I'm a Corona man, myself. |
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| m2pc |
Great job!
Wheres the beer?
:7: |
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| mdxxxx |
Nice going LL... looks like you brought your "A" game to the trial. Did you get to talk to opposing counsel yet, to get his take? More details!
Oh, and I'll take a Heineken or Becks... |
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| socalJD |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Under our state's discrimination law (as well as the federal counterpart), we are entitled to our retainer fee (1/3) AND attorneys' fees on top of that . . .
Well then, congratulations and well done counselor . . .
oh, and make that 2 Heinekens :D |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Under our state's discrimination law (as well as the federal counterpart), we are entitled to our retainer fee (1/3) AND attorneys' fees on top of that...
Hmmm I'd guess Tim (www.hondacuraworld.com) might be hearing from you soon?:D |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxxxx
Hmmm I'd guess Tim (www.hondacuraworld.com) might be hearing from you soon?:D
More like the BMW. . . time to trade in the "commuter" car. . . |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxxxx
Nice going LL... looks like you brought your "A" game to the trial. Did you get to talk to opposing counsel yet, to get his take? More details!
Oh, and I'll take a Heineken or Becks...
Opposing counsel was fuming. . . I could tell, although he did congratulate me. My clients on the other hand were in tears. Remember, these are corrections officers. One 6'4", 240 lbs and the other 6'2" and 250 lbs.
Funny thing is, even though they were happy about the money, they were more elated about their winning beating the Correctional center. It confirmed the hell they were put through. |
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| zubinh |
Labor,
Looks like you need the services of an experienced Smith Barney Financial Advisor (AKA yours truly).:D |
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| laborlitigator |
| Minimum 2 years before I get a sniff of that. . . appeals, appeals, appeals. |
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| hammermdx |
LL,
Congrats, it's nice to see the good guys win! BTW, I'll drink any beer that is free.:7: |
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| Warzau |
| Allrighty LL when can we start asking legal questions. :2: |
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| Blueflame |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Minimum 2 years before I get a sniff of that. . . appeals, appeals, appeals.
Congrats, For free beers, I could wait that long. By the way, want to take a case in Ca.? Just kidding... :7: |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by Blueflame
Congrats, For free beers, I could wait that long. By the way, want to take a case in Ca.? Just kidding... :7:
Cali. . . I've got a tough enough time here . . . :4: |
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| TheWorm |
Good for you! Coincidentally, I also had my first jury trial just last week. Except I was a juror :D
But I'll have a Heineken, too. |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by TheWorm
Good for you! Coincidentally, I also had my first jury trial just last week. Except I was a juror :D
But I'll have a Heineken, too.
Easiest way to get off the jury. . . just tell the judge you don't need to hear the facts and you've already made your decision
:xnuts: |
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| greatscot |
Well done laborlitigator, wins are always nice.
BTW, I stopped drinking years ago, but a Chocolate Malt would be nice :2: |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Easiest way to get off the jury. . . just tell the judge you don't need to hear the facts and you've already made your decision
:xnuts:
Yup, works for me every time... another one is expressing doubt about the legal system... |
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| laborlitigator |
| Here's another one. . . just tell the judge you tell if they're guilty by just looking at them. . . :crazyeye: |
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| EXCALIBUR |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Here's another one. . . just tell the judge you tell if they're guilty by just looking at them. . . :crazyeye:
Reminds me of those old wild West movies, " We'll give you a fair trial before we hang you."
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| AcuraMDX2002 |
| As a trial attorney I find it kinda repulsive that people will give 'pat' answers just to NOT serve on a jury! If eveyone felt that way, our system would truly come to a grinding halt -- then I guess we'd never win one for the good guys!:2: |
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| A2MDXer |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
After practicing for 5 years, I finally engaged my first labor and employment trial (my area of specialty). For some reason, I've been able to settle all if not most of my cases prior to actually reaching the box....
Ladies and gentlemen, beers are on the house!
LL, congrats from a fellow attorney. BTW, I mostly do transactional work (RE, corp.) and rarely am involved in litigation so I have never had a trial period (and don't intend to anytime soon). Anyway, great to get the first out of the way plus a positive outcome. Maybe I will take you up on that beer in a few years:D |
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| TheWorm |
This was the first time I've ever been selected and believe me, I was amazed it was the case. This was a civil trial (car crash, property damage and personal injury) and I could've been excused for cause for a variety of reasons: law enforcement background, judges in the family, doctors and expert witnesses in the family, pre-law undergrad, family members involved in crash litigation, etc. But the reality was that during voir dire when asked if these associations would cause bias, my honest answer had to be "no".
One thing I will mention is that IMO some of the "excuses" that potential jurors gave during selection were absolutely shameful. The "piling on" and echoing of "oh, I also have vacation planned for this Thursday-Friday" was absurd. When the judge asked for specifics, 3/4 couldn't provide them since they're apparently poor at thinking on the fly. Those people were directed to reschedule for a trial within 60 days, rather than outright excused.
I was most impressed by some of the hourly-wage workers who had no objections to serving, yet don't even get paid by their companies (or if self-employed, by anyone) if they're sitting on a jury. One guy was a United construction person who had just finished a forced, unpaid 30-day layoff yet had no complaints about serving.
Not to say that I haven't hoped to be excused on a number of occassions, but the reality is that sitting in the box for a week is never optimally convenient. And this trial, at least, was interesting and fun. It was a worthwhile experience.
(OK, back to our drinks) |
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| xcel |
Hi LaborLitigator:
___Sorry to be so late to the party … In any case, congrats are definitely in order.
___Now on to more important items … what new X accessory are you going to purchase again ;)
___For those that have served, I want to personally thank you for your time and commitment. I have yet to be called myself but if the call ever comes my way, I will do so to the best of my rather short list of abilities ;)
___LL, Good Luck with the next trial!
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| Wazowski |
| Congrats, LL! What a great feeling to be successful on your first try (jury trial that is)! I know much of this may sound cliche, but IMHO, to serve on a jury is to perform our civic duty. As flawed as our justice system is here in the US, it is among the best in the world and a significant part of our freedom that we enjoy. In the meantime, LL, enjoy your success! I'm sure it is well deserved! :7: |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by A2MDXer
LL, congrats from a fellow attorney. BTW, I mostly do transactional work (RE, corp.) and rarely am involved in litigation so I have never had a trial period (and don't intend to anytime soon). Anyway, great to get the first out of the way plus a positive outcome. Maybe I will take you up on that beer in a few years:D
I feel physically exhausted. . . I do need some time to recover. |
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| caroline |
LL,
Pay no attention to that stock broker guy, boy, you'd think they were as bad as lawy...oh, sorry.. Bet you are glad you didn;t take that Oreo Cookie Case! Congrats.. :jump3: :jump3: :jump3: |
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| laborlitigator |
During the jury selection process, each side receives 6 challenges. The purpose being, each challenge can be used to remove jurors.
Anyway, after reading books on jury selection, my main goal here was to remove "linear" thinking jurors, ie. accountants, computer programmers, mathemeticians, etc. The theory being, in order to understand discrimination, people that process problem solving in a linear manner would have a more difficult time understanding an amorphous theory. Because if you think about it, I would not be able to show a memo saying, "Hey we discriminate or retalitate." I had to show inconsistencies and variances from the norm.
Well, to make a long story short, after I had used my fifth challenge, defense counsel calls for sidebar. He's huffing and puffing and tells the judge that he's going to ask for a mistrial. He claims I only excused white males, which was true, but I did not realize it. Although it's a no-no to use color as a means of excusing, that wasn't my intent.
Judge warns me but I was not intending to excuse anymore jurors since another unwritten rule is that you always leave yourself with a challenge, no matter what.
It is pretty ironic, that in a discrimination case, it is the Plaintiff's attorney is the one getting accused. . . |
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| A2MDXer |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
I feel physically exhausted. . . I do need some time to recover.
Yes, my co-workers sometimes appear to be zombies for a week after. By the way, the beers do help that. ;) All that preparation time and you still found time to keep posting on this site. Ah, someone his priorities well in line.:D Congrats again. Number two will be easier. |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by A2MDXer
Yes, my co-workers sometimes appear to be zombies for a week after. By the way, the beers do help that. ;) All that preparation time and you still found time to keep posting on this site. Ah, someone his priorities well in line.:D Congrats again. Number two will be easier.
Believe me, I was scared. . . I just didn't let it show.
I remember when I left my previous firm about 3 years ago to start my own thing. The partner asked me which firm I was going to. I told him I wasn't going anywhere and that I would be starting on my own.
He just started shaking his head. . . btw, that previous boss had 2 lawsuits against the correctional center and lost both times. :2: |
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| A2MDXer |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
I remember when I left my previous firm about 3 years ago to start my own thing. The partner asked me which firm I was going to. I told him I wasn't going anywhere and that I would be starting on my own.
He just started shaking his head. . .
Then double-congrats. IMO it takes a lot of guts to leave a more secure but more controlled firm-life for the solo or startup practice. More guts than I have I guess.:D The stakes are higher so the result here is doubly nice. And the head shaking - probably just extra motivation for you. |
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| laborlitigator |
| Especially starting up, you just don't know how many times I asked myself, "What the heck am I doing?!" |
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| A6MDX |
quote:
my main goal here was to remove "linear" thinking jurors , ie. accountants, computer programmers, mathemeticians
These types actually understand variances better than most as they examine things from a scientific or analytical perspective. You just have to put things in terms they understand. However, they may be analytical to the point that it limits their ability to examine things with an emotional or social facet.
I'm an ex-scientist and now an IT consultant and I'm always excused very early from jury pools even though I wouldn't mind serving. It always appears that the attorneys are after one of two things with propective jurors. One, someone possibly sympathetic to their client or two, someone who can easily be swayed (i.e. not an independent thinker). I know that last statement sounds a bit cruel but if I were out to convince someone to save me from a prison term or large settlement then that's probably what I would look for in a juror as well.
Personally I think voir dire has gotten out of hand. I think it tends to build in bias rather than reducing it. |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by A6MDX
These types actually understand variances better than most as they examine things from a scientific or analytical perspective. You just have to put things in terms they understand. However, they may be analytical to the point that it limits their ability to examine things with an emotional or social facet.
I'm an ex-scientist and now an IT consultant and I'm always excused very early from jury pools even though I wouldn't mind serving. It always appears that the attorneys are after one of two things with propective jurors. One, someone possibly sympathetic to their client or two, someone who can easily be swayed (i.e. not an independent thinker). I know that last statement sounds a bit cruel but if I were out to convince someone to save me from a prison term or large settlement then that's probably what I would look for in a juror as well.
Personally I think voir dire has gotten out of hand. I think it tends to build in bias rather than reducing it.
My thoughts exactly... Until a few years ago, my profession (Software engineer) automatically warranted an excuse. However, the last time, to my surprise, it didn't work! (probably an anomaly) I think the reason for our dismissal is because we are "independent thinkers". Good point A6MDX |
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| TheWorm |
Good points A6 and mdxxxx. I actually spoke with the defense atty after the trial and asked him about the jury selection/composition that I found surprising. Not just me, but some others with specific medical/industry knowledge and even a guy who is an expert witness (albeit in a different area) were on it.
He said he was looking for analytical thinkers who are open minded but have a "prove it" mentality. Obviously makes sense for a defense that believes there isn't sufficient evidence to prove the case. I would imagine the defense would tend to prefer the "prove it" jurors whereas the plaintiff would rather have the sympathetics. |
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| laborlitigator |
| That and I wanted minorities on the jury. . . :2: |
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| greatscot |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Believe me, I was scared. . . I just didn't let it show.
That's the way to be, behave like a duck-stay calm on the surface while your'e paddling like hell underneath :D |
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| laborlitigator |
| In the words of Kid Rock. . . if you want to be the sh!t, you gotta act like the sh!t. |
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| greatscot |
"Sometimes your'e the windshied, sometimes your'e the bug
sometimes your'e the Louisville Slugger, babe, somtimes your'e the ball . . ." Mary Chapin Carpenter |
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| laborlitigator |
| I like that one. . . |
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| caroline |
LL,
what made you choose that type of law, it amazes me, I have a new neighbor who has an engineering degree and is going to law school for Patent law. I can't think of anything more dry.. |
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| laborlitigator |
Caroline. . .
It kinda chose me because the first job I got was employment litigation. I still remember my boss saying, "This is real law. Real litigation. Not that garbage that they do in PI." |
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| greatscot |
quote:
Originally posted by caroline
LL,
what made you choose that type of law, it amazes me, I have a new neighbor who has an engineering degree and is going to law school for Patent law. I can't think of anything more dry..
caroline,
that's funny, my oldest son has his Mech. Engineering Degree and he just finished his first year of law school here in CA. Looking to go into patent law, and btw, not as dry as you might think. Intellectual property law can be boring all the way to the bank. Not my line of work, though. One of my other kids is also a Mech. Engineer, but she does ME for a living, she agrees with you that patent law is too dry. |
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| AcuraMDX2002 |
| My youngest son (actually I have only one son, and a daughter, too!) has a degree in Computer Engineering and is going to law school in the fall and plans to pursue patent law as well, with my full encouragement. Maybe I'll 'follow' him with my Computer Science/Math BS and my JD, I guess I qualify but will have a little 'brushing up' to do! |
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| laborlitigator |
| Patent law seems real popular. . . |
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| rudy331 |
quote:
Originally posted by caroline
LL,
what made you choose that type of law, it amazes me, I have a new neighbor who has an engineering degree and is going to law school for Patent law. I can't think of anything more dry..
I work for a large DC based intellectual property law firm (patent/trademark). You'd be surprised that it isn't dry at all. The litigation side of it can really be quite intense and get the blood flowing! We've been to trial many times and you never can predict what a jury is going to do--they can be your best ally or your worst nightmare. |
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| laborlitigator |
| Personally, I love labor and employment litigation because of the passion it emotes from my clients. Aside from family law issues, it is probably the most passionate people get about anything. |
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| caroline |
| I think if I were going to be a lawyer I'd be an estate lawyer, you hold hands of old widows and get them to leave you all their money....:4: |
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| BaldEagle |
quote:
Originally posted by caroline
I think if I were going to be a lawyer I'd be an estate lawyer, you hold hands of old widows and get them to leave you all their money....:4:
:19:
You sound qualified to be an attorney. |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by caroline
I think if I were going to be a lawyer I'd be an estate lawyer, you hold hands of old widows and get them to leave you all their money....:4:
:22: |
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| caroline |
| You all may think it is a terrible proposition, but I know of a nice guy who has been a good friend to all these really old ladies and just in the past few years they have decided to leave this planet. One left him her condo on the water in Sarasota, another left him about 500K, and a few left expensive antiques and jewlery for his wife and daughters. Now, in his defense when I kid him about it, he tells me of the hours that he never billed these clients for remaking wills, or setteling family disputes, so he feels that although he never asked for these things, he's not going to turn them down! I think it is a great retirement plan...:4: |
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| laborlitigator |
| Obviously, I'm in the wrong specialty |
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| mdxxxx |
| Hmmm, I may have to rethink my planned intellectual property specialty...:4: |
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| kishino |
quote:
Originally posted by caroline
You all may think it is a terrible proposition, but I know of a nice guy who has been a good friend to all these really old ladies and just in the past few years they have decided to leave this planet. One left him her condo on the water in Sarasota, another left him about 500K, and a few left expensive antiques and jewlery for his wife and daughters. Now, in his defense when I kid him about it, he tells me of the hours that he never billed these clients for remaking wills, or setteling family disputes, so he feels that although he never asked for these things, he's not going to turn them down! I think it is a great retirement plan...:4:
Hmm... just ask Anna Nichole Smith and look what she got. No offense to your friend the lawyer. It is just that too many people take advantage of the senior citizens.:mad: |
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| A2MDXer |
quote:
Originally posted by caroline
You all may think it is a terrible proposition, but I know of a nice guy who has been a good friend to all these really old ladies and just in the past few years they have decided to leave this planet. One left him her condo on the water in Sarasota, another left him about 500K, and a few left expensive antiques and jewlery for his wife and daughters. Now, in his defense when I kid him about it, he tells me of the hours that he never billed these clients for remaking wills, or setteling family disputes, so he feels that although he never asked for these things, he's not going to turn them down! I think it is a great retirement plan...:4:
If you nice friend is an attorney, he may have violated his ethical standards, especially if there is a pattern of non-billing and then accepting such gifts, particularly such sizable ones. I also take it that he has reported all of this as income, right? Now the facts of each individual case may not be fully apparent or as simple as you indicate here but let's just say that estate planning attorneys are not allowed to make a living this way. My guess is he would be wise to consider this very seriously.
Oh, and I should add that if this IS his motivation then yes I do think that it is improper. |
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| Blueflame |
quote:
Originally posted by kishino
Hmm... just ask Anna Nichole Smith and look what she got. No offense to your friend the lawyer. It is just that too many people take advantage of the senior citizens.:mad:
I do not think most of us has what she has before she became a whale..:2: |
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| jswift2000 |
| I thought about going back to law school. I love to argue and always thought it would be fun as a prosecuter. I work in IT and do really well for myself but I need a change. Oh well... maybe. |
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| laborlitigator |
Jswift. . .
Please, you're not missing much. |
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| caroline |
quote:
If you nice friend is an attorney, he may have violated his ethical standards,
There is an oxymoron somewhere in that statement, I just can't figure it for sure,
... Moreover If you provide a service, as a counselor, B]Whereas [/B] you do not receive renumeration for your time and or counsel, you might be entiled to some form of consideration given by your client in his or her will. Howbeit in form of real estate, stocks, bonds or currency.
And to think, I never took 1 course in lawerspeak.:jump3: :jump3: |
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| laborlitigator |
| As long as he discloses it, he should be covered. |
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| jswift2000 |
LL,
Forgot to say it earlier - as Cartman from Southpark would say... "Kickass!". Nice win. |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Jswift. . .
Please, you're not missing much.
Except nice fees! :4: |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by caroline
There is an oxymoron somewhere in that statement, I just can't figure it for sure,
... Moreover If you provide a service, as a counselor, Whereas you do not receive renumeration for your time and or counsel, you might be entiled to some form of consideration given by your client in his or her will. Howbeit in form of real estate, stocks, bonds or currency.
And to think, I never took 1 course in lawerspeak.:jump3: :jump3:
LOL - Not bad caroline! :D |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxxxx
Except nice fees! :4:
Yeah, those help. . . just a little |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Yeah, those help. . . just a little
I think they help a LOT! Hastings, here I come! :D |
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