| JeffK |
I have previously posted on this board about the distortion in my front windshield. I have been contacted by Customer Service. Here is what they say:
1) Acura engineers have been aware for some time of the distortion in the front windshield.
2) The distortion appears in ALL MDX's.
3) At this time, Acura has no intention of correcting this problem.
I was shocked by the response of Customer Service. I expected Customer Service to thank me for pointing out this problem; that their engineers were looking into the problem; that they would get back to me about a resolution of the problem; and finally that they would replace my distorted windshield as soon as possible.
Instead, Acura is "Stonewalling" this problem.
The only way this safety problem will be addressed if pressure is put on Acura.
If you agree with me, CONTACT YOUR DEALER or ACURA CUSTOMER SERVICE at: 1 800 382 2238. I spoke to Robert Craig.
Incredible, Customer Service, rather than correction the problem, has suggested I contact the NHSTB!
I expected better from Acura – and so should you! |
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| JimH |
Is this only for a certain model year (e.g. 2003), or for the 2001 and 2002 year models also? I guess I am not aware of what a "distorted winshield" would look like (i.e., what the flaw really is)?
Thanks. |
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| azfansinnc |
Jeff,
No offense, but I never noticed any distortion. |
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| JeffK |
When I spoke to Customer Service, they reported that the distortion is for ALL MDX's, 2001,2002 and 2003.
What is incredible, is that their OWN INTERNAL ENGINEERING REPORTS, acknowledge this problem, but that they choose to ignore the problem!
This is as bad as the Corvair and Ford Falcon.
It is perfectly clear to me that they do not want the cost of a Factory recall.
For complete description of the problem, go to my thread "Distortion in Front Windshield".
PLEASE CONTACT DEALER AND CUSTOMER SERVICE. This is the only way to put pressure on Acura to fix this safety problem. |
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| shootist |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffK
I have previously posted on this board about the distortion in my front windshield. I have been contacted by Customer Service. Here is what they say:
1) Acura engineers have been aware for some time of the distortion in the front windshield.
2) The distortion appears in ALL MDX's.
3) At this time, Acura has no intention of correcting this problem.
I think what Acura saying is that they don't believe it is a safety problem; this may be why they're confident in suggesting you report it to NHTSB.
Some owners have, in the past, had their windshields replaced. Looks like Acura is shutting down that warranty claim.
I guess the question is, at what point does the distortion interfere with the operation of the vehicle, rather than being a cosmetic nuisance to owners who have noticed it?
They may have a point if the distortion is low enough that it does not interfere with our view of the road. |
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| JeffK |
I spoke to Customer Service at length on two separate occasions. I also had the regional service manager inspect my windshield.
The following acknowledge the distortion:
My dealer - Rallye Motors
Amy Teerlink - Regional Service Manager
Rob Craig - Acura customer service
Rob Craig admitted that Acura has known all along about the problem but has chosen to ignore it.
Here is copy of letter I have sent to Customer Service:
"May 16, 2003
Acura Client Services
1919 Torrance Blvd.
Torrance, CA 90501-2746
Re: VIN 2HNYD18213H502156
Dear Sir:
This letter is a confirmation of my telephone call of today's date. During that call I advised you of the following:
1) I took possession of the above vehicle in November, 2002.
2) Immediately thereafter, I complained to the service department of a distortion in the front windshield. The distortion is in the center part of the windshield, approximately 2 inches above the base of the windshield. The distortion extends for approximately 4 to 6 inches.
3) The service department of Rallye Motors, where I purchased the vehicle, acknowledges the distortion.
4) The regional service manager, Amy Teerlink, has examined my vehicle and acknowledges the distortion.
5) On Tuesday, May 13, 2003, while having the oil changed at 7,500 miles, I was advised by the service department:
"Amy Teerlink confirms the distortion, but after checking with the factory, the factory has determined that the distortion is 'normal'".
6) My service department then advised me to contact Acura Client Service.
I cannot agree with the factory's conclusion. Both Ms. Teerlink and Acura acknowledge the distortion. It would seem from the factory's response that the factory has been aware all along of this problem, but has refused to take the steps necessary to correct the condition.
Page 2
May 16, 2003
A distortion in the front windshield is a hazard to driving. It is an unsafe condition that must be corrected. A distortion in the front windshield can never, I repeat, never be "normal".
Upon receipt of this letter, please contact me so as to advise me of what steps Acura will take to correct this unsafe and hazardous driving condition."
To other Boarders who claim they do not have the distortion, you in fact do - factory confirms it. Go out and reexamine and then contact Customer service and your dealer to demand that Acura take action to correct the safety problem. |
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| hammermdx |
quote:
Originally posted by azfansinnc
Jeff,
No offense, but I never noticed any distortion.
Same here, but mine appreas to be perfect, knock on plood! |
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| shootist |
Jeffk:
I'm clear that there is distortion at the base of some (but apparently not all), MDX windshields, which is what the dealer and district rep acknowledged to you. What I'm not clear about is the effect of the distortion- does it distort your vision of the hood, or is it high enough to distort your vision of the road?
One poster mentioned that it made him or her dizzy, which is a safety issue in itself. |
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| DevExpert |
I did not notice anything on mine either, but I would think it is safety hazard. The right side mirror is in a way distorting the view so it has a label that says "Objects may be closer than they appear". Most likely that label was put there because at some point somebody sued…
I do not think that distortion on front windshield is acceptable. For example laws here in MI do not allow any tint on front windshield because it would obstruct the drivers view. Most of the states have similar laws. Distortion in a way does obstruct the view, so something like this might apply… |
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| JeffK |
It distorts the vision of the road. In fact I swerved about 10 days ago changing lanes - as I went from one lane to another, the white lane markers "jumped" because of the distortion, and I reacted to it. My wife was pretty upset.
When I spoke to customer service, I told them up front that I wanted my MDX and was not looking for a way out of my lease and that other than the distortion I was 100% satisfied with the MDX.
What shocked me was Customer Service acknowledgment of the problem and the fact that they have always been aware of it, but choose not to correct it.
Remember, windshields are a supplied item - windshields are not manufactured by Acura.
So very easy for Acura to shift the responsibility to the supplier and correct the situation if they want to.
If the matter is not corrected (hope you all contact your dealer and Customer Service) then of course I will be left with no alternative but to got to FTC and NHSTB. |
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| shootist |
Thank you for the clarification that the view of the road is distorted. That turns it into a full-on flat-out NHTSB- and NYS DMV- reportable safety defect.
You obviously write a good letter- one should go to the State DMV.
Since you have a written response that a safety defect is not repairable, you've also triggered the NYS Lemon Law.
You can report defects to the NHTSB on their web site.
And you can pursue all the options including arbitration that are laid out in your owners manual.
While Acura wants to avoid mass replacement of windshields, they may just make a little adjustment to hold down the fury of an educated consumer.
And all for the lack of a nail. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffK
Remember, windshields are a supplied item - windshields are not manufactured by Acura.
And how much IS manufactured by Acura? Not as much as you might think. Their responsibility is for the finished product. Your home builder did not make the nails either. |
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| hammermdx |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
And how much IS manufactured by Acura? Not as much as you might think. Their responsibility is for the finished product. Your home builder did not make the nails either.
Great point DaleB. Acura should take the high road here and replace those windshields if folks compain about it. |
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| norcalchuck |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffK
The distortion is in the center part of the windshield, approximately 2 inches above the base of the windshield. The distortion extends for approximately 4 to 6 inches.
To other Boarders who claim they do not have the distortion, you in fact do ...........
Well, I have looked hard for this distortion and don't really see anything. Also, from the perspective in the driver's seat, how would you be viewing the roadway if the alleged distortion is only about 2 inches form the bottom margin? Wouldn't you be looking at the hood? Re the extension of 4 to 6 inches, are you saying vertically (e.g, the "distortion is from 2 inches to 8 inches above the bottom margin) or horizontally (e.g, 2 inches above the bottom margin extending 2 to 3 inches each side of the center line)? I'll look again. I looked the first time this thread surfaced. Didn't see it then, don't see it now. |
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| mgmdx |
quote:
Originally posted by norcalchuck
Well, I have looked hard for this distortion and don't really see anything. Also, from the perspective in the driver's seat, how would you be viewing the roadway if the alleged distortion is only about 2 inches form the bottom margin? Wouldn't you be looking at the hood? Re the extension of 4 to 6 inches, are you saying vertically (e.g, the "distortion is from 2 inches to 8 inches above the bottom margin) or horizontally (e.g, 2 inches above the bottom margin extending 2 to 3 inches each side of the center line)? I'll look again. I looked the first time this thread surfaced. Didn't see it then, don't see it now.
Same here. I put a conscious effort into trying to find this distortion on my '01 MDX's windshield, but could not see anything abnormal. I attempted to identify this inconsistency by looking at the windshield from different angles and in varying light conditions, but still could not find anything. :8:
Perhaps this is an issue on a small batch of MDX windshields rather than something that affects every MDX, as claimed above. Maybe it is time for a poll to clarify this. |
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| JeffK |
Dear norcalchuck
First I want to thank you for other posts - re: my fog light question.
To be as specific as possible:
In the center of the windshield go up about 2 to three inches. The distortion then is for another 4 to 6 inches vertical. The width of the distortion is about 8 to 10 inches wide.
Again, and I know I am repeating myself, Acura Customer Service has said that they checked with engineering (so did Amy Teerlink regional service manager) who CONFIRMS THE DISTORTION!
Believe it or not, they say because ALL windshields have the distortion it is NORMAL!
Sounds to me like terrible glass making!
To other posters, thanks I will also copy letter to NY State DMV, and my two Senators and Congressmen.
I just think that because of the limited number of MDX's produced, Acura is in a bind. It this was an Explorer with hundred of thousands made, the defect would have been caught and corrected. I suspect Acura had to contract for 25/50,000 windshields at a time.
When this batch (through 2003 models) is used, I am sure the problem will be corrected.
I remember the previous S class Mercedes Benz, were eating tires every 6,000 miles and that also was "normal". Clearly it was not, and they had to re-engineer the tires to carry the extra weight of the car. But it took two years, but only 25,000 units.
If not, having the problem called to their attention, they are financial very foolish! |
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| JeffK |
Dear mgmdx:
Would love to start a poll. Please tell me how to do it.
Thanks.
JeffK |
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| norcalchuck |
| Well, I am the ultimate Mr. Picky on some things, but frankly I do not see it, and, if I have to look that hard for a largely subjective defect, as they say in the law "res ipsa loquitur". I don't question your perception however, and certainly if it bothered me I would pursue it. |
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| MDXor |
| I'll check tomorrow... |
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| DaleB |
This is not a new topic. It has come up before, but is not a 'common' problem, not to say it's not a PIA for those expriencing it.
Easy damage of the windshiled has been more prevalent. |
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| socalJD |
JeffK,
Do you wear glasses or hard contact lenses ? Just wondering, maybe the addition of corrective lenses enhances the distortion that you're experiencing.
FYI - I have a '02 and wear soft contacts and I cannot detect any distortion from the front windshield. In fact I almost rear-ended a MB yesterday trying to emulate the distortion thing . . . :eek: :3: |
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| edepa |
quote:
Originally posted by socalJD
JeffK,
Do you wear glasses or hard contact lenses ? Just wondering, maybe the addition of corrective lenses enhances the distortion that you're experiencing.
FYI - I have a '02 and wear soft contacts and I cannot detect any distortion from the front windshield. In fact I almost rear-ended a MB yesterday trying to emulate the distortion thing . . . :eek: :3:
I only wear glasses for some night driving, and with or without them, i have no visible distortion. If it is that severe they should just bite the bullet and change the guys windshield. I'd try to get your own done instead of starting a "group" buy! I'd get louder if that doesn't work with acura, especially if you can get a witness to the dealership agreeing it was distorted. good luck! |
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| vicpai |
quote:
Originally posted by mgmdx
..................Perhaps this is an issue on a small batch of MDX windshields rather than something that affects every MDX, as claimed above. Maybe it is time for a poll to clarify this.
.......I tried very hard to pinpoint the "distortion" but don't see anything. I'm sure it's a batch of windshields that are defective, and that's the reason Acura does not want to do anything. |
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| vicpai |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffK
...............Again, and I know I am repeating myself, Acura Customer Service has said that they checked with engineering (so did Amy Teerlink regional service manager) who CONFIRMS THE DISTORTION!
Believe it or not, they say because ALL windshields have the distortion it is NORMAL!
Personally, I think it's just a batch of windshields that are defective. The reason they're telling you (and confirming) that ALL MDXs do this is to establish some sort of "NORMALCY" in order to get out of having to correct the issue (replacing the windshield with a new one). It's the same trick used by every service department. When ALL vehicles exhibit the problem, it becomes a so-called "characteristic" of the vehicle and then they don't have to do anything about it :rolleyes:
quote:
........Sounds to me like terrible glass making!.........
Honda/Acura has had a history of poor glass. I remember reading numerous posts on this and other boards (TL/CL/Accord etc.) of windhield glass chipping very easily. For the MDX, they supposedly made the windshield thicker for the 2002 model. However, the reason quoted was to make the vehicle interior quieter. Well, I'm not so sure about that :rolleyes:
quote:
........I remember the previous S class Mercedes Benz, were eating tires every 6,000 miles and that also was "normal". Clearly it was not, and they had to re-engineer the tires to carry the extra weight of the car. But it took two years, but only 25,000 units..........
I'm right now having an issue with the steering system (possibly related to the tires??) with "wandering" on the freeway and "lag" in steering response (loose steering/freeplay) needing constant miniscule corrections to keep the vehicle going straight (see post "steering clunk"). However 2 Acura dealership service departments "don't notice A THING" and say "it's normal". This MDX is my 2nd Acura in the last few years and all I can say is, Acura's customer service is really bad. While my first vehicle (a 2000 TL/Navi) was bulletproof as far as reliability and quality goes (not one single issue, mechanically), the purchase experience was a totally different story. In that case, Acura was very unhelpful, with a very callous attitude, besides their reps being rude and arrogant. While I think their service has improved somewhat (my current issues with the MDX - at least they are willing to "look into it further"), I still think they have a long ways to go.
BOTTOM LINE: what I'm trying to say, is that it's gonna take a lot of pressure to make them get on the ball to resolve your problem. After lots of complaining, whining and pressurising I'm finally going to meet with a district rep on Tuesday - I'm just hoping his/her response is not the same as what you got :rolleyes: ........Just like you, I let them know that besides this steering issue, I'm 100% happy with my MDX, so one would think that it is in THEIR best interest to resolve these "trivial" (for them) things to ensure customer loyalty :rolleyes: |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by vicpai
Personally, I think it's just a batch of windshields that are defective. The reason they're telling you (and confirming) that ALL MDXs do this is to establish some sort of "NORMALCY" in order to get out of having to correct the issue (replacing the windshield with a new one). It's the same trick used by every service department. When ALL vehicles exhibit the problem, it becomes a so-called "characteristic" of the vehicle and then they don't have to do anything about it :rolleyes:...
Exactly...:4: |
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| sar10 |
| Correct me if I am in error, but I seem to recall that one of the changes from '01 to '02 was a thicker windshield (something to do with noise reduction as I remember). It seems odd that the distortion would affect ALL MDX's when there have been changes made to this part. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by sar10
Correct me if I am in error, but I seem to recall that one of the changes from '01 to '02 was a thicker windshield (something to do with noise reduction as I remember). It seems odd that the distortion would affect ALL MDX's when there have been changes made to this part.
Who says it affects them all? :8: |
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| larzgold |
For what its worth, just checked my windshield out, and had someone else look at it just incase I am blinded by my love of my MDX, and we could not find any distortion on the window - I have a 2003 MDX took delivery May 2nd.
Funny thing, I am getting to be a Hypocautochrondiac (sorta like a hypchondriac but for my car) every complaint/problem i read on this board I believe i have. BUt so far the only issue I had was some loose trim which poped back into place easily.
Larzgold |
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| sar10 |
| DaleB, I believe JeffK said "all" in a previous post. |
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| Wazowski |
| I looked for the distortion on my X. Either I'm just too tolerant or the distortion is so subtle that it I don't notice it. In either case, it doesn't bother me. |
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| m2pc |
Ok, you guys have successfully made my wife question my sanity. I keep looking at the windshield and shes wondering whats my problem!
Oh, BTW, I haven't found any distortion yet
:confused: |
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| norcalchuck |
quote:
Originally posted by m2pc
Ok, you guys have successfully made my wife question my sanity. I keep looking at the windshield and shes wondering whats my problem!
Oh, BTW, I haven't found any distortion yet
:confused:
This whole windshield thing reminds me of the emperor's new clothes. |
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| azfansinnc |
quote:
Originally posted by norcalchuck
This whole windshield thing reminds me of the emperor's new clothes.
LOL
I actually looked and could not find any distortion on my 03. I had my wife check too. Same answer. |
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| mikeyu1 |
| I rushed to my garage and checked it right away after I saw this post. I checked carefully on the lower middle windshield and I found it. It doesn't really bother me because it so hard to find it and its only a little spot. Lets see what Acura will do on this problem. |
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| Will4271 |
| I checked my '03 but couldn't find it. |
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| shootist |
I looked at my windshield carefully before pickup, because I had read about the distortion. Didn't see it. Have been looking for it for 2,500 miles. Didn't see it.
After doubting the "all Mdx's have it", I looked at the white lane line on the right of the 'X, just off the hood, last night. The white line curved disconcertingly inwards! Started fixating on it, and got nauseous.
Moral: If you don't see a problem, don't look for it.
If you get class-action status, sign me up. |
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| JeffK |
Dear Shootist:
You wrote:
"The white line curved disconcertingly inwards! Started fixating on it, and got nauseous. "
Once you find the distortion it haunts you.
If you are driving and inadvertently look through the distortion as you are changing lanes, the white line will jump, which caused me to swerve !
This is why I think it is a safety issue.
Will you help out and file complaint with customer service?
If enough of us do, Acura will have to take corrective action. |
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| Dale MDX |
Distortions of varying degrees are very, very common in windshields. Not just in MDXs. Try this test: From outside of the car/truck, stand a few feet away from the drivers door, bend down to get even with the windshield, and look through the front windshield at a angle - approaching 90 degrees to the angle you usually look through it from. Move your head left and right a little, focusing on objects through the glass. On MOST windshields, you'll be able to see waves all over the glass. Try this with windshields of various makes and ages.
Once you know what to look for, you can even notice this in other cars in traffic, sitting at stop lights, etc.
I had a problem with an Audi once where these vertical waves were easily visible even from the driver's seat, and were very annoying. The dealer told me it was "normal." I checked other cars. They were right. Every windshield was essentially junk. Other brands were better. I eventually changed to a PPG aftermarket windshield. It wasn't perfect, but much better.
I think a lot of the distortion has to do with the heat treatment processes the glass goes through, plus the complex curvatures of the glass.
Another thing to keep in mind: Keep your original glass if possible. A replacement will never be installed quite as well. (Oozing sealant, trim not fitting quite right, glass set too close or far away from car body, not centered right, etc.) Spend the money to have it done by people that know what they are doing if you get new glass. (Just like repainting). |
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| MarylandMDX |
I checked this morning to see anything abnormal in my '03 X.
Happily, I could not detect anything beyond the ordinary. My Audi A6 had a more curved windshield and a lot of distortion at the sides.
Cheers.. |
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| RealWing |
| My 03 MDX has the distortion right in the lower middle section of the windshield. I looked for this specifically at the dealer when I first picked it up and could not see it. After driving, I can now see it - but only when turning corners at slow speed. |
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| JeffK |
Dear RealWing:
Thanks for your post!
Your next step is to register a complaint with Acura Customer Service.
If enough of us do this, then Acura will be forced to make the necessary corrections in the windshield. |
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