| jswift2000 |
I have a question about lawn care - are you here wayne (xcel)?
We're using Natual Lawn of America (http://www.nl-amer.com/) to treat our lawn this year and the results have been unreal. Our grass is so green and grows like gangbusters. They applied the 2nd treatment yesterday and since we have two clover patches and some weeds on the lawn so they recommend seeding in the fall. Here are my questions:
(1) Can I seed earlier than the fall and if so, will it take?
(2) What is the best grass seed to use? Ive heard about the grass seed called Water Saver with RTF (http://www.aboutrtf.com) and it looks promising.
(3) Next spring I have to lay down some topsoil on an area of my lawn to level it out - should I wait until then or do it now? Hydroseed?
Anything I need to put on my lawn has to be environmentally, dog and child friendly.
Thanks for the help all. |
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| ghost |
Nice to see a lawn company that is attempting to employ IPM - I hope they do well! So many companies simply use a spraying schedule designed for overkill (in more ways than one!)
Fall is a great time to plant as far as seed establishment goes - the climate is much friendlier (less heat load, usually more water available). Also, it's a time of year when plants start to translocate sugars and nutrients down to their roots (as opposed to growing more leaves), so it's a good time physiologically as well. You really don't want to seed in the heat of August.
Spring (like now) is the next best time, you could probably get a decent cover established = keep it well watered, kids off, etc.
Check with your local extension folks for the best varieties for your area - it varies with part of the country, local conditions (sun or shade, clay soils or loams, etc).
If you put down topsoil now, you should plant at least an annual grass on it - otherwise you'll have a great weedbed next year.
Finally, hopefully Natural Lawn did a soil test! People use way too much phosphorus on their lawns, and it just ends up turning the local lakes green. Here's some info on that from some Minnesota lakes - but it's a real water quality problem in most urban areas.
http://www.lakeaccess.org/lakedata/...er/mainlawn.htm
Good luck! |
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| jswift2000 |
| Thanks ghost. They did a soil test and they said if it same back bad, they would let me know and tell me what they can or I can do. As I said above, this is the 2nd treatment and the lawn is night and day compared to last year. I will be using them next year. We looked at ChemLawn, LawnDoctor, etc and they all used chemicals. A friend of mine uses chemlawn and every year after the 1st treatment, the lawn burns out b/c of the chemicals. It turns green a few weeks later but what about all those chemicals? With a kid and dog, I needed something a little safer. Am I still babing? |
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| laborlitigator |
Jswift,
I actually use Chemlawn which has done a great job on my lawn. It's interesting the information you've put out regarding all the chemicals. I'm definitely going to take a look at your provider.
BTW, I seeded this past fall and it worked out well. However, I did notice that when chemlawn came in, some of the shrubs on the lawn died after their treatment.
However, my lawn is way thicker with no weeds whatsoever. Compared to last year where it was 1/3 full of weeds, it's a great turnaround. |
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| jswift2000 |
LL,
My lawn is very thick and it grows too fast - im cutting it every 4-5 days at a height of 3 inches. I'm not saying chemlawn is bad and I hope I didnt come across that way. I just wanted to use an organic solution for my daughter and dog. |
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| xcel |
Hi Jswift2000:
___I can only tell you what works in my neck of the woods … Many people are taken in by the Chemlawn type guarantees, free analysis, fast work … whatever. The problem is not only are they hitting many up with expensive treatments, many are receiving second class results. They come around way to often with fast acting spray fertilizers and herbicides. Not only is it terrible for the environment but it creates thatch like a SOB with the over fertilization they provide! I try and keep my fertilization to just 2 apps. A Slow release high N2, low P, low K, w/ Pre-emergent in early spring (25-3-5 SCU w/ Dimension). I usually apply an easy app of 10-10-10 or 18-18-18 depending on the health of the turf in late August/early Sept. The timing of the second app is dependant upon the recent and expected temps and how much rain we have had over the course of the previous 4 weeks. For Weed control, I use Trimec – Classic around June 1st and again September 1st. If the turf being considered is weed free in early June, we will go to just 1 application in very early Sept. Trimec w/ Spot spraying where need be in between. Trimec or any other weed control should not be applied where new turf is going to be laid/grown for at least 6 weeks so I have to balance weed control with new turf wherever applied. The best time of the year for weed control and new grass growth in my experience is September 1st. Unfortunately, the 2 do not work together as explained above. For spraying herbicides, I highly suggest that you attend a spray class before even thinking about trying it. This stuff is dangerous in the concentrate Landscapers use and if not handled properly, you could not only harm yourself but harm your family in the process! I can go into more detail on this if you would like but your local extension service should have spray classes at regular intervals over the spring and fall periods. I can’t stress this enough. Herbicides are killers of more than just weeds and if you are not careful, long term effects can be your undoing depending on what you are exposed to in the process to have that extremely pristine lawn.
___For seed, I have noticed Menards and Home Depot have been improving there seed germination and mixes over the last 3 or 4 years. Irregardless, I still purchase a specialty Sun or Shade mix. For shady lawns, Fescue will be a major % of the mix. For opened up lawns, 3 to 5 varieties of Blue > 60% by weight total volume with the remainder rye and a sprinkling of fescue will be in the mix. New lawns get a 100#/ acre app whereas a relatively full lawn will receive a 25 to 50#/acre over seed. Germination rates listed on the bags are in the 90 + % range and always less than 9 months old when I pick them up.
___Before I ever spread or spray anything, I have a little discussion with the arborist at my main supply house to see if I need a change. They like to apply 3 or 4 fertilizer apps but in my opinion, it is a bit much and very expensive as well. The turf will look absolutely pristine throughout the summer months but I really don’t think applying fertilizer in a 6 to 8 week cycle is ideal for our native waterways nor when I have to remove thatch because of the over fertilization problem. If I was doing sports fields and had consistent rain w/ sprinklers as well as twice weekly mowing, than fine but for most peoples homes, turf is not damaged from the little use most turf sees …
___As for costs, I charge $60.00 per care for spray and $80.00 per acre of fertilizer on mostly 2 + acre sites.
___Lastly, the best thing one can do for turf is to core aerate in the spring. I would do this with over seeding in the spring or fall as well. Compaction, aeration, and easier growth of new turf is the result. It’s environmentally friendly and easy enough for the average homeowner to do in a few hours on any given weekend.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| laborlitigator |
Wayne,
I'm printing that one out. Excellent advise! |
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| jswift2000 |
Wayne,
U rule. Good advice, and like LL, I will print that. I know about aeration and dethatching. My only concern is aerating with the inground sprinklers - will that damage the heads? |
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| Blackura |
I'm schizophrenic with my lawn. Front half (visible from street) gets four professional treatments per year. It's so well manicured I was considering getting it a pedicure too. Back half (visible, but who can tell crabgrass from fescue from a distance?) has been getting mowed, period. No fertilizer, no seed, nothing.
In dry years, both the front and back looked almost the same. This year with all the rain we've had, the front looks phenomenal and the back has turned largely to weeds.
My solution this year is to keep the pro's doing the front and now I've started doing the Scott's four step program myself on the back. When the pro's come to do the first treatment on the front, I do the Scotts on the back. It'll be ditto for the other three treatments later on.
I'm not looking for a professionally manicured lawn on the back 9, just as long as it looks OK from the street. The front lawn is impressive though, and I'm saving about $400 a year this way.
Jswift2000 and Laborlitigator, we're in the same region, so we've had the same weather. The rain has made a huge difference this year, hasn't it? It's pretty lush out there!
Wayne, thanks as usual for your green genius. We'd all be living with thatch and mud if it wasn't for you! |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by Blackura
Jswift2000 and Laborlitigator, we're in the same region, so we've had the same weather. The rain has made a huge difference this year, hasn't it? It's pretty lush out there!
I'm in MA and it has rained so much that the grass AND the weeds are thriving. My lawn looks great without having had to turn on the sprinklers. However, the weeds are really trying to invade the lawn and there hasn't been enough time between rain storms for weed killer to work.
jswift2000: Most grass seed sold in the northeast germinates best between 60 and 80 F. So if you think it will stay below 80F and you can keep the areas watered, you could reseed those areas now. If the areas you are reseeding have not been fertilized, then use starter fertilizer. If they have been recently fertilized then you will have to wait.
For filling in areas, I have found that Scott's performs the worst in my lawn. It seems to be very fragile and dies off easily before becoming established. I did find a Loft's brand at Home Depot that performs exceptionally well. It germinates super fast with some weeds. But I found that using Weed B Gone gets rid of the weeds and the grass then fills in nicely. It is Lofts, All Perennial Landscape Mixture, good for sun and shade, and it grows in dark green. It seems to sell out at Home Depot relatively quickly.
Monroe is a great area. I worked in Stratford from 1988 til 96 and lived in the Huntington area of Shelton. Good Luck with the lawn. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by jswift2000
Wayne,
U rule. Good advice, and like LL, I will print that. I know about aeration and dethatching. My only concern is aerating with the inground sprinklers - will that damage the heads?
When I had my sprinkler system installed, they left me with flags to place at all the sprinkler heads when I aerated. That way I could mark them and aerate around them without any damage. |
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| jswift2000 |
blackura,
I thought about doing the 4 step scotts program myself but it would not have been that much cheaper than having someone come and do it. I also have the dog who owns the lawn and it would be tough keeping him off. The rain this year has been unreal and it has helped the lawn. My weeds are almost non-existant except two small clover patches in the back and they're begining to die off.
jl_ss,
Monroe is great. Small town that is close to everything. I can easily mark the heads with some flags but the prev owner of the house did the sprinklers in the rear and I dont know how far he buried the lines. I might just take my chances and aerate. I will dethach in the fall and again in the spring.
Once again thanks to Wayne, who will hopefully keep us green with his advice. |
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| zafer |
Any using Scotts LawnService? Comments?
Called Natural Lawn of America. They're coming next week for an estimate. Do they require a years contract? |
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| jswift2000 |
zafer,
I went with NL America and they rock - no chemicals and the lawn was green and thick throughout the year. However, I did have some bare spots that I didnt get to last year that I will overseed this spring. I signed up for 4 treatmens at a $90/ a treatment for 1.2 acres. Well worth the money and I highly recommend them. |
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| DaleB |
When I bought this new home over a year ago I wish I had planned to do the front landscaping as I had the rear done by an indenpendent landscaper.
I suspect new homes come with minimal nutrients in the soil. But it has survived quite well after a bout of fungus, and general malaise, if you will.
I now have it to where it maintains a nice color with enough water just before it starts to runoff. And it's growth has improved tremendously since last year. Now we will see how it survives the onslaught of summer torture. |
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| jswift2000 |
DaleB,
I suspect that most builders put down minimal, if any top soil at all. Excel (wayne) could give better advice but if you need a thick lawn or more nutrients, you need to start with the soil. I would put down some nice, dark top soil and then a good quaility seed for your zone. Then, in the fall (althought I dont know if this applies to CA) aearate the lawn and overseed. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by jswift2000
DaleB,
I suspect that most builders put down minimal, if any top soil at all. Excel (wayne) could give better advice but if you need a thick lawn or more nutrients, you need to start with the soil. I would put down some nice, dark top soil and then a good quaility seed for your zone. Then, in the fall (althought I dont know if this applies to CA) aearate the lawn and overseed.
I don't believe we overseed or aerate as often. But aeration is recommended about every 2 years from what more experienced (and/or knowledgeable) neighbors have told me.
Right now things are going well, as I stated. And I just want to keep it that way. I do not cut too short, and have achieved a good balance when it comes to watering, and fertilizing 3 times a year.
I can not believe how many people cut their lawns too short, and pay for it big time in during scorching summers. |
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| jswift2000 |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
Right now things are going well, as I stated.
I can not believe how many people cut their lawns too short, and pay for it big time in during scorching summers.
Sorry Dale. I misunderstood. My bad.
I agree with cutting too short or too often. That was the first rule I learned when I really began taking care of my lawn. I cut my lawn when I need to, not every sunday or on a schedule. I let my lawn grow to about 3.5" - 4" and never cut more that 1/3 off its length. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by jswift2000
Sorry Dale. I misunderstood. My bad.
I agree with cutting too short or too often. That was the first rule I learned when I really began taking care of my lawn. I cut my lawn when I need to, not every sunday or on a schedule. I let my lawn grow to about 3.5" - 4" and never cut more that 1/3 off its length.
No problem, no I was not going to dig up the lawn to put down a better one..but the thought crossed my mind :cool: |
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| ghost |
quote:
Originally posted by zafer
Any using Scotts LawnService? Comments?
Called Natural Lawn of America. They're coming next week for an estimate. Do they require a years contract?
Scott's is first and foremost a lawn chemical company, so their recommendations tend to rely heavily on chemical treatments. They also tend to apply blanket formulas to lawn care, like 4 treatment per year of an NPK formula - as opposed to basing it on something like a SOIL TEST. (Any homeowner can have a soil test run for $7-10 through the state land grant university - call your ag extension folks for details. You get really good info from this...)
Finally, Scotts has lobbied pretty heavily against a municipal ban phosphorus-containing lawn fertilizers in suburban cities around Minneapolis, where the soils are naturally rich in P and the water quality in area lakes is an issue (excess P in lakes causes algal blooms, oxygen depletion, etc).
So, I guess I don't have a very good opinion of Scotts, Natural Lawn sounds like they have the right approach to things... |
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| DaleB |
I have 2 drains in the backyard that run out to the front curb. I now see I will need to add one more for one side that still collects too much water, largely because of fencing it gains little in the way of wind or solar evaporation.
From the sprinklers alone, there is one area about 2X3 that is always 'puddled'. In the interim, before the permanent fix, what should I use in the water to prevent insect breeding?
I don't want to mess with kerosene, etc.
(It is a fully fenced yard and no pets to drink the water...) |
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| A2MDXer |
quote:
Originally posted by jswift2000
Wayne,
U rule. Good advice, and like LL, I will print that. I know about aeration and dethatching. My only concern is aerating with the inground sprinklers - will that damage the heads?
I have the same concerns about the lines. I have marked the heads. My question now is what is the best or easiest way to aerate? I can rent a machine that pulls the plugs (but it's heavy and many miles away) or I can go with a simplier solution like aeration sandals or hand aerators (like a shovel). Any ideas? The sandals sounded like an easy way but I have heard from some that it really doens't do much to help the soil. Does everyone either use a service or rent the machine? Thanks in advance. |
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| evoge |
The only aerating that does any good is the plug removal method. The spikes and tines can actually compact the soil even more.
Check out the pros: http://server2.lawnsite.com/index.php Good advice for a DIY, or at least see what a lawn care guy charges.
I tried dethatching and probably shouldn't have, but the aerating with the right machine (though a b@llbuster) was well worth it. The rental center might even have a small trailer for it. Better done in the fall, and then only every 2-3 years depending on lawn traffic. |
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| A2MDXer |
quote:
Originally posted by evoge
The only aerating that does any good is the plug removal method. The spikes and tines can actually compact the soil even more.
Check out the pros: http://server2.lawnsite.com/index.php Good advice for a DIY, or at least see what a lawn care guy charges.
I tried dethatching and probably shouldn't have, but the aerating with the right machine (though a b@llbuster) was well worth it. The rental center might even have a small trailer for it. Better done in the fall, and then only every 2-3 years depending on lawn traffic.
Thanks for the tip and the link. I have a lawn that's probably 2-3 years old (I moved in last summer) and I suspect that little was done to it since the beginning. I may go ahead and aerate now. |
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| jswift2000 |
quote:
Originally posted by evoge
The only aerating that does any good is the plug removal method. The spikes and tines can actually compact the soil even more.
Check out the pros: http://server2.lawnsite.com/index.php Good advice for a DIY, or at least see what a lawn care guy charges.
I tried dethatching and probably shouldn't have, but the aerating with the right machine (though a b@llbuster) was well worth it. The rental center might even have a small trailer for it. Better done in the fall, and then only every 2-3 years depending on lawn traffic.
I agree. The plug aerator is the only way to go. I have learned so much about lawn care from lawnsite.com. Remember, if you are in the cool season zone (northeast) you can still aerate (watch out for crabgrass - thats why its best to wait until fall) and seed the lawn - use a quick germinating grass like an perenial ryegrass and then overseed in the fall with some bluegrass or fescue. Lawnsite does rock. Lots of great people with a lot of good ideas. |
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| renov8r |
If the weather is expected to be over 70 degrees and/or extended period WITHOUT rain you DO NOT want to the aeration done. The lawn will lose too much moisture, the core plugs will dry to a brown dusty mess and you will be inviting insects and weeds in.
The nice thing abot fall aeration is if you wait 'til after all the bugs die off you have wiped out almost all of the risk.
For spring aeration you have to time ut much closer.
If you are really good about watering you might be OK, but I don't have an inground sysatem and hate draging around the hoses(they kepp ratcheting up the water rates too) so if I don't get done in the fall I don't do it....
quote:
Originally posted by A2MDXer
Thanks for the tip and the link. I have a lawn that's probably 2-3 years old (I moved in last summer) and I suspect that little was done to it since the beginning. I may go ahead and aerate now.
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| nightguy |
I suspect that most builders put down minimal, if any top soil at all.
The original property owners across the street from me said the developer paid him to let them scrape off the topsoil. Nice, huh ? I added about 24 yards worth before I laid sod. In return I have one of the nicest lawns on the block now that I added irrigation. BTW, anyone building and thinking of putting it in, do it ! It's much better to do it right away.
Anybody know if birds eat fertilizer ? I just dropped some Scott's pre-emergent a couple of days ago and birds are on my lawn as though I just overseeded. I haven't watered in a couple of days so I don't think they're taking worms out. Maybe they're finding grubs ? |
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| A2MDXer |
quote:
Originally posted by renov8r
If the weather is expected to be over 70 degrees and/or extended period WITHOUT rain you DO NOT want to the aeration done. The lawn will lose too much moisture, the core plugs will dry to a brown dusty mess and you will be inviting insects and weeds in.
The nice thing abot fall aeration is if you wait 'til after all the bugs die off you have wiped out almost all of the risk.
For spring aeration you have to time ut much closer.
If you are really good about watering you might be OK, but I don't have an inground sysatem and hate draging around the hoses(they kepp ratcheting up the water rates too) so if I don't get done in the fall I don't do it....
Thanks for the info. Well, I live in Michigan so forecasts are worth the paper they are written on. At the start of this week, there were a few snowflakes in the air - yesterday it was 78 I believe:eek: Although I have a sprinkler system, the lawn isn't that bad so I might just wait. Thanks. |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by nightguy
I suspect that most builders put down minimal, if any top soil at all.
The original property owners across the street from me said the developer paid him to let them scrape off the topsoil. Nice, huh ? I added about 24 yards worth before I laid sod. In return I have one of the nicest lawns on the block now that I added irrigation. BTW, anyone building and thinking of putting it in, do it ! It's much better to do it right away.
Anybody know if birds eat fertilizer ? I just dropped some Scott's pre-emergent a couple of days ago and birds are on my lawn as though I just overseeded. I haven't watered in a couple of days so I don't think they're taking worms out. Maybe they're finding grubs ?
In my area, birds lunching on my lawn is a SURE sign of grubbs. Do a couple of test diggings and check, but I would be very surprised if there were none. |
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| jswift2000 |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
In my area, birds lunching on my lawn is a SURE sign of grubbs. Do a couple of test diggings and check, but I would be very surprised if there were none.
If you have grubs, then you need to elimate the food source. I use organic ferts on my lawn and there is one saying that I live bye: treat the soil and the lawn will come. |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by jswift2000
If you have grubs, then you need to elimate the food source. I use organic ferts on my lawn and there is one saying that I live bye: treat the soil and the lawn will come.
Since the food source is the grass roots, I prefer to kill the little bastards!
Better living through chemistry.
Unless things have changed, I have had very little success in years past dealing with insects using the "organic" methods. |
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| ghost |
quote:
Originally posted by nightguy
I suspect that most builders put down minimal, if any top soil at all.
The original property owners across the street from me said the developer paid him to let them scrape off the topsoil. Nice, huh ? I added about 24 yards worth before I laid sod. In return I have one of the nicest lawns on the block now that I added irrigation. BTW, anyone building and thinking of putting it in, do it ! It's much better to do it right away.
Anybody know if birds eat fertilizer ? I just dropped some Scott's pre-emergent a couple of days ago and birds are on my lawn as though I just overseeded. I haven't watered in a couple of days so I don't think they're taking worms out. Maybe they're finding grubs ?
Fertilizer would be pretty toxic to birds, and the pre-emergent stuff is an herbicide added to fertilizer. Depending on the bird, they're eating bugs, worms, seeds, or maybe grubs, but most are smart enough not to eat fertilizer pellets (or learn quickly about natural selection!) |
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| nightguy |
Fertilizer would be pretty toxic to birds, and the pre-emergent stuff is an herbicide added to fertilizer.
Yeah, I agree with you but they were out there again today when I got home. Sprinklers are set for 4:30 a.m. and it's the last part of the yard to get sun, so maybe there were worms out there. It only got to 50-something in the cities today so the soil probably was still nice and cool. Upon further inspection there's still a lot of yellow Scott's pellets laying on top of the grass.
Hey, off-topic from the off-topic...have they added anything to the aquarium in the last year or so ? We went there about a year ago, and I was a little bored but since we're headed up to the cabin soon, I thought I might check it out again. |
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| zafer |
http://www.nbc17.com/print/3285419/detail.html
Formula Includes Soda, Beer
With hot weather often comes burnt, brown patches of grass in our yards. But, you may not have to say goodbye to the beautiful green grass you have now.
"I have the best lawn in the neighborhood," said lawn tonic expert Tim Heffron. "It's greening up real nice."
Heffron has deep, thick, beautiful turf-like, grass that stays this way all season. He gets these great results with no sprinkler system and only a little fertilizer.
His secret is a tonic made up of common household ingredients.
"I started using it about five years ago back in Oklahoma where it's 100 degrees every day -- day in and day out," Heffron said.
A soda, a beer, a little liquid dishwashing soap, some mouthwash and some household ammonia, all mixed in to a 10-gallon hose-end sprayer.
The soda and the beer are essentially food for your lawn.
"The combination of the two will allow the grass, the dead grass in your lawn, help to begin to break down and to compost much quicker," Heffron said.
The liquid soap is a wetting agent, helping the formula to penetrate to the roots. The ammonia promotes growth and turns your lawn green, and the mouthwash does something you would never suspect mouthwash would do -- it kills the bugs and grubs.
It essentially messes up their reproductive cycle and keeps them out of your lawn and makes it look a lot better and leaves it minty fresh," Heffron said.
Because the tonic is applied with the hose sprayer, it's a direct shot to your sod.
"When you don't have a lot of water -- and we're on watering restrictions -- this is another way to get the nutrients to your lawn and keep it growing," Heffron said.
Here's the exact formula if you'd like to try it:
- One can of soda -- not diet
- One can of beer -- not light
- 1/2 cup of dish soap
- 1/2 cup of mouthwash
- 1/2 cup of ammonia
- Mix all ingredients into a 10-gallon hose-end sprayer.
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| ghost |
quote:
Originally posted by nightguy
[B
Hey, off-topic from the off-topic...have they added anything to the aquarium in the last year or so ? We went there about a year ago, and I was a little bored but since we're headed up to the cabin soon, I thought I might check it out again.
Hi Nightguy, sorry I didn't get back to ya sooner, I've been a-travellin' and off the site.
I actually worked on some of the aquarium exhibits when they first opened up - the underwater robot that's hanging from the ceiling over the otter exhibit was one of our projects, as was the computer kiosk that delivered GIS information on Lake Superior.
But they've had a lot of changes since I was involved with them, the aquarium is now managed by Ripley, of Ripleys' Believe it or Not. They've done a whole bunch of things that are not definitely not aquarium-like, like having a work record brick-breaking contest and "most weight on a board on top of a guy laying on a bed of nails" thing.
So they've defininitely sidled away from their educational mission, but since knowledge wasn't paying the bills perhaps this is the way to go (the FOX TV/LCD approach attracting the American public). Anyway, attendance is up (I'm waiting for the wet-T shirt in the sturgeon tank attraction!), and it's probably worth checking out again. May have to go myself sometime, my boys used to love the place...
Where's your cabin? I'm in the deep woods, north of Twig, south of Cotton.
Cheers!
Ghost |
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| nightguy |
Well, the cabin is more of a house in a small town off of 61....without pinpointing it, I'd say almost halfway to Grand Marais. It's still nice as there's no phone, not much TV, no broadband, and no skeeters. Lots of hiking, lots of room for the dog to run and of course the new Betty's, though I have yet to go in.
Maybe we'll check out the aquarium again; I knew it had bad reviews but at the time, at least I was making a donation to the city. There's always Maritime, where those plaster statues with the recordings in the mock-up staterooms still give me the creeps ! :eek: |
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