| wmquan |
Our 14-year old dishwasher seems to be leaking a small amount of water while it runs. I pulled off the lower panels and watched it with a flashlight while it was running. As far as I can tell, when the dishwasher begins to drain, water seems to drip from an area in the middle, possibly around a valve that seems to be involved in the draining process.
I assume this is a replace rather than repair situation? After all, 14 year old dishwasher, availability of newer, more efficient, and quieter models? I figure getting a repairman over will be at least $100, especially since they'll probably have to pull out the unit and flip it over to work on the parts. I had heard that some dishwasher repairs are do-it-yourself, e.g. replacing a door seal. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like a door seal.
I figure that Consumer Reports is really good for this type of thing (not much subjective evaluation is required). Their only problem is that can't test every model that's out there. Right now I'm leaning toward a two-rack Maytag model (MDB7600) that they recommended. Only "average" energy efficient, but above-average in noise and apparently flexible in loading (you can lower the top rack and put 10" dishes in both the top and bottom).
Maytag makes interesting three-rack models (MDB8600, MDB9600) so you can put frying pans, baking sheets, etc. in the shallow bottom, but it apparently compromises room in the top and middle rack a lot. And reviews on Epinions have not been flattering of the three-rackers.
CR also liked a specific Kenmore model but it doesn't seem to stand out more than the Maytag, though Kenmore has been somewhat more reliable than Maytag according to CR. Plus Sears, in their usual way, is constantly switching model numbers to confuse the issue. CR liked the bottom-end KitchenAid, but it seems to trade off higher energy efficiency vs. the Maytag at the expense of loading flexibility.
I like the Bosch models on paper. Ultra-quiet, snazzy design, innovative features. But these German-made units are like the dishwasher counterpart to a Mercedes-Benz ... the trade-offs are higher maintenance (filter isn't self-cleaning), expensive, and not highly reliable (one of the worse brands in CR's view). |
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| hammermdx |
You may want to check this site if you think it can be repaired:
http://www.repairclinic.com/
I bought a new Kitchen Aid about 2 years ago. Stainless Steel Tub, very quiet and a self cleaning filter which I think the Bosch's don't have. |
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| wmquan |
Hammer,
Thanks for the nice link!
The KitchenAid that CR recommended is probably my second choice. Your model is probably better than the one I'm looking at (which is the bottom-of-the-line KitchenAid from what their web site says). I think the Maytag will load a bit more flexibly (e.g. the adjustable top rack), and the cheapest KitchenAid doesn't have flatware slots (so the utensils don't clump together). But the KitchenAid is somewhat more energy-efficient.
I should probably go to Lowe's, as they sell both Maytag and KitchenAid and I can see them side-by-side. Sears sells both as well.
That cheapest model is still about a hundred bucks more than the Maytag, mainly because of the stainless steel tub. I'm not convinced I need a stainless steel tub other than for cosmetic purposes (and even the cheapest KitchenAid has a lot of cosmetic adjustability, e.g. all sorts of colorful door panels). They don't crack, but most dishwashers have a warranty against the plastic tub cracking for 20 years.
Have you found other benefits to a stainless steel tub? Cosmetics are nice, though, especially if the dishwasher's plastic tub discolors and you have to run bleach through it. |
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| hammermdx |
| I have no scientific proof, but it seems to me that the stainless steel tubs do a better job cleaning the dishes. |
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| jswift2000 |
| When was working for a venture capital firm, we had three kitchen aids per kitchen area and you could never tell they were on. I hear bosch make a great dishwasher, as well as ge. |
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| Maik |
We also have a Kitchen Aid with a stainless steel tub and while I am not sure that the dishes get cleaner, I would say that it is very quiet.
I live in an area with hard water, so the stainless steel wont stain. I suspect that since the stainless models are generally more expensive, they may be better made. Ours is really VERY quiet, and I would highly recommend it. |
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| hammermdx |
| There's also less of an odor with a stainless tub. |
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| amazent |
wmquan,
At the age of 14 years, it is probably wiser to replace than repair. It sounds like the seal is gone, therefore the leak in the middle. A seal is inexpensive, probably about $10-$15, but unless you can do it yourself, won't be worth it.
I have a Bosch now for about five years and love it. QUIETTTTT!!! I don't hear it running at all except when draining. It was highly rated 5 years ago. Not sure about the models available now. I have had no problems whatsoever! Good luck. |
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| ECON1 |
We replaced a 10-year old mid-line GE (Profile series) last fall. Had seen a new Bosch at a friend's house, and couldn't believe how quite it was. (Our dishwasher is in an island in the kitchen, and could easily radiate noise.)
We were used to using the delay timer on it to keep the noise down, so I insisted on getting a Bosch model with a delay start as well. Dumb mistake. You just can't hear it when it's running - the most noise is makes is to drain the water.
After 9 months, still haven't found anything in the trap to clean out - it's VERY efficient. (The trap means they don't need to include the grinding mechanism, which helps keep the noise level so low. Great tradeoff in my opinion.) |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by amazent
wmquan,
At the age of 14 years, it is probably wiser to replace than repair. It sounds like the seal is gone, therefore the leak in the middle. A seal is inexpensive, probably about $10-$15, but unless you can do it yourself, won't be worth it...
What amazent said...:4: |
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| frostyra |
| We have a two-year-old near-top-of-the-line KitchenAid which is VERY quiet and does the best job of cleaning dishes of any of the three dishwashers we have owned -- even choosing all of the energy-saving options. But, the quietness comes at a price: the thing holds only about 2/3 the amount of dishes that the previous KitchenAid and GE did. The noise insulation takes up a lot of space, so the "tub" is smaller. |
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| Warzau |
| kinda off topic but related, for those who have noisy empting dishwashers, used the strainer and have it closed it stops all noise of the water rising out. |
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| BaldEagle |
You should defiantly not repair the 14 year old dishwasher. New ones are quieter, clean better, are larger inside, and use less energy (water). Even if you can do the repair for only a few parts you still have an old appliance that is noisy, does not clean well, and will likely fail again soon. The average life of dishwashers is only about 10-12 years.
I would also get the KitchenAid. The new ones have a tub larger than all other brands and they are the only US made model with a SS tub. KitchenAid was bought out by Whirlpool but they still make them at the same location as they have for 35+ years. They are by far the best dishwasher made IMHO.
If you want to save some money install it yourself. It is not very difficult. I have replaced a few over the years and can do it in about one hour if I don't run into anything abnormal. |
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| Warzau |
| I agree with eagle, especially when its a newer home. |
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| wmquan |
Thanks for all the responses.
Yes, I'm not going to mess with the old dishwasher, and we're just going to replace it. I'll take a closer look at the KitchenAid model. Unfortunately the ones with some of the features I want are pretty pricey. So it'll come down to how a $600 low-end KitchenAid with less features compares with a more-featured $500 Maytag that, accoding to CR, cleans just as well and is just as quiet and is actually slightly more reliable. Though the KitchenAid is more energy efficient and is likely better built inside.
Thanks again, it'll be an interesting shopping trip. This may come down to which unit fits the mix of stuff we wash. Think I'm gonna pack up a stockpot and a platter and see how well they fit ... |
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| renov8r |
We read those CU reports over three years ago (when our crappy builder supplied dishwasher crapped out after only 5 years of service...) BUT we also ASKED friends/neighbors about their dishwashers and Bosch came out on top.
The things that made a difference:
#1 HUGE tub. The Bosch design does NOT rely on tons of insulation to achieve quiteness. There is so much interior room you can fit almost any plate/pot/pan. Also, Bosch does NOT have an excessive number of washer arms/nozzles to take up precious space.
#2 Cleans REALLY well. Like other companies, Bosch relies on their own heater to get the water super hot. Bosch does a great job pumping that water where it needs to be, making sure that dirt does not get blasted back onto plates, and getting rid of the water.
#3 No exposed drying element. This means a) you can put PLASTIC on either rack b) no worries about the element getting busted {unfortunately I feel it also explains why that you MUST use a rinse aid in the Bosch, otherwise moisture IS left on plates/cups}
We were concerned about the "filter" but in actual use you pop the thingy out maybe ONCE every 10-15 washes, hold it under HOT running water for 30 seconds, shake the gunk down the disposer and pop it back in -- NO big deal. I think that IF you left actual eatable food on the plates you would have to clean it more often, but personally I always will at least use a dinner knife to shove all the "too little to use for leftovers" stuff into the disposer when I load the dishwasher.
The Bosch we have is the "no exposed controls" model. VERY VERY nice not to have the tempting push buttons out there for our toddler to explore. It has performed FLAWLESSLY for over 3 years. We do a TON of dishes, as we always have grandparents and or friends over.
Finally, I beleive that although the corporate parent is in the FatherLand, a large number of Bosch applicances & power tools ARE MADE IN THE USA/North America. No neighbors have had problems with service/parts or even installation (which by the way, is a DREAM, Bosch has no crappy plastic latches/spacers which ALWAYS fail on lessor brands...)
Was it a bit more than other brands, yes, but for something that we use everyday it is well worth it!
quote:
Originally posted by wmquan
Thanks for all the responses.
Yes, I'm not going to mess with the old dishwasher, and we're just going to replace it. I'll take a closer look at the KitchenAid model. Unfortunately the ones with some of the features I want are pretty pricey. So it'll come down to how a $600 low-end KitchenAid with less features compares with a more-featured $500 Maytag that, accoding to CR, cleans just as well and is just as quiet and is actually slightly more reliable. Though the KitchenAid is more energy efficient and is likely better built inside.
Thanks again, it'll be an interesting shopping trip. This may come down to which unit fits the mix of stuff we wash. Think I'm gonna pack up a stockpot and a platter and see how well they fit ...
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| one4gatr |
Very timely topic for me. My wife and I JUST purchased our first EVER dishwasher 3 weeks ago. We opted for the Kitchen Aid KUDI01DLWH. We also did extensive research using CR and friends who had dishwashers. I will tell you why we chose the the Kitchen Aid. # 1 - Hard food disposer, #2 - Stainless Steel Tub (quiet/durable), #3 - Sani-Rinse Option, #4 - Energy Consumption.
But let me get to the REALLY good scoop. We printed the Lowes web site pricing on this model (same as in store). Took it to Sears who price matched plus 10%. Kitchen Aid has FREE installation after mail in rebated until 7/31. AND if you have SEARS install it they do not charge you sales tax (corporate wide). AND to boot the day we bought it Sears was running an ADDITIONAL 10% off of all appliances.
http://www.lowes.com/lkn?action=pro...0-46-KUDI01DLWH
We actually will walk away after the rebates and price match cheaper then the sales price of $647 at Lowes plus saved on the tax.
What ever one you choose I would suggest you get it from Sears so you can save the taxes and remember they price match PLUS 10%. |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by renov8r
...
The Bosch we have is the "no exposed controls" model. VERY VERY nice not to have the tempting push buttons out there for our toddler to explore.
...
Finally, I beleive that although the corporate parent is in the FatherLand, a large number of Bosch applicances & power tools ARE MADE IN THE USA/North America.
Here's my facetious comment: well, the ML320/ML350/etc are made in the USA even though the corporate parent is in the Fatherland, and they don't do well in Consumer Reports either. :D
Now, seriously. I love the Bosch models on paper. Problem is that they're more than "a bit" more expensive for me. I see a pretty good (on paper) Maytag that's $475, with three years extended warranty for just $50, or the low-end KitchenAid which is $100 more (extended warranty is probably more expensive). A concealed-control Bosch is $900+. The "affordable" ones are the models with the exposed push-button controls. I suppose if one is looking at the $800-$900 KitchenAid models, the Bosch ones are only a bit more.
I should also mention that our kitchen isn't particularly fancy, and in terms of cabinet materials is more on the cheap side.(needs a remodel, but that's years away). A $1,000 ultra-sleek, beautiful Bosch won't do much for it.
Here's a question for you though: I know that concealing the controls keeps it away from the toddlers. But is there any latch on the door? Or does the door just pop open by pulling on the nice, long, sleek, tempting handle on the outside? I hope not, because my toddler son would have a field day with that. Thanks!
(BTW, the Maytag and KitchenAid that I'm looking at, while the controls are exposed, have a lockout feature. The kids can push the buttons but they won't do anything.) |
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| renov8r |
It requires more force than a simple cabinet catch, but it is not like it's "bolted shut". When the thing is shut there is mechanism that graps the latch plat and the opening force is definately in the pounds+ range. The handle makes an awesome towel bar too!
As to the CU rating on reliability I have to think that some of the gazillion wash option models with LCDs and such are probably making up a lot the repair claims. Our unit is pretty much frill-free.
To be honest, when we got ours the concealed control model was not the "top of line". Further, although the interior is SS, our door is just painted white (the better to get a matching cabinet front, when I get around to it...)
We also are INSANE comparison shoppers(which explains why our MDX is still on order...), and we actually got our unit from "old stock" after the next years models were in the appliance stores. Unlike Acura dealers, the appliance stores WILL cut HUGE deals on the prior year's models. We almost went with the "no box, showroom display model" but another store matched the no box price...
The independant appliance stores LIVE on haggling... They also LOVE cash sales, and unlike a Best Buy, they do not push the extended warranty. We are fortuante to still have several indy appliance sellers. |
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| JimH |
We had a Maytag at our last house and have had a Kithenaid at our current residence (Kitchenaid going on 16 years of age). The Kitchenaid is definitely quieter, and works great. I have also heard great things about Bosch. Probably comes down to price and what you want to spend. However, a few 100 dollars spread out over
10-15 years is not too much to spend per year for an upgraded model? |
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| A2MDXer |
quote:
Originally posted by wmquan
Now, seriously. I love the Bosch models on paper. Problem is that they're more than "a bit" more expensive for me.
William,
I don't have one but I have two friends that RAVE about their Bosch washers - first that it's very quiet and second that you don't have to rinse the dishes as much. If you have living or eating space near the kitchen it might be worth the extra $$ - if not then probably not worth it. Just my $.02. |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by one4gatr
But let me get to the REALLY good scoop. We printed the Lowes web site pricing on this model (same as in store). Took it to Sears who price matched plus 10%. Kitchen Aid has FREE installation after mail in rebated until 7/31. AND if you have SEARS install it they do not charge you sales tax (corporate wide). AND to boot the day we bought it Sears was running an ADDITIONAL 10% off of all appliances.
Wow! Now that is really intriguing.
I can understand the price match + 10% because most advertised prices are before any haggling or manufacturer's list.
However, the only rebate I could find was a Sears $35 rebate for KitchenAid appliances installation, but nothing for free installation.
Now, was this "no sales tax" another promotion that Sears was running? I haven't seen anything like that. Was this something on a sign in the store, or was it something the salesperson offered?
Thanks for bringing it up! |
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| wmquan |
We finally went out and looked at the dishwashers in person. My thanks for the opinions offered here!
Maytag MDB7600 -- a really practical dishwasher. Pros: Nice rack adjustability, quieter than average (according to CR, about as quiet as most KitchenAids, but not as quiet as the Bosch's), my two year old can't pop open the door very easily, average or slightly above average repair rate (8%), and pretty cheap. Cons: feels a bit cheap compared to the expensive models, not very exciting to look at -- a dishwasher that Mom would love.
Bosch SHX33xx -- nice! Pros: Attractive design, stainless steel tub, quiet (54 dB model), more energy efficient than the Maytag. Cons: No rack adjustability (the "standard" rack package), no delay-start option, my two year old can pop open the door with a small effort, CR has repair rate at 13%, some horror stories on epinions.com, and kind of expensive at a starter price (before negotiation) of $689.
Bosch SHX46xx -- wow! Pros: Attractive design, stainless steel tub, REALLY quiet (50 dB or better), good rack adjustability, more energy efficient than the Maytag. Cons: no delay-start option, my two-year-old can pop open the door with a small effort, CR has repair rate at 13%, some horror stories on Epinions, and pricey at a starter price of $819.
KitchenAids. The low-end unit was just too limited (no rack adjustability) compared to the MayTag. The mid/high-end units were the only KitchenAids I'd be interested in. Truthfully, though, after looking at the Bosch's, the KitchenAids weren't that exciting. The Boschs seem a step quieter than the KitchenAids unless you get into the $1,000+ KitchenAid models vs. the $700 Bosch units (part of it is because the KitchenAid has a self-cleaning filter). CR has KitchenAid repair rates at 9.5%, a bit better than Bosch but they do claim an "insignificance" statistical fudge factor of 3%, so they're close (though it can be said that the KitchenAid is thus statistically tied with MayTag). Pricing was fairly comparable, with the KitchenAids maybe $50-$75 cheaper. Energy efficiency is comparable.
Soooo now that we've done the in-person shopping we just need to make a decision. I do really like the Bosch SHX46xx model. After installation, extended warranties, taxes, I've computed it at $346 more than the Maytag, or about 45% more. Ouch. I realize that this purchase is for a number of years so perhaps $346 isn't too much. But I could also argue that $346 will buy something else we could really use in our house!
I'm gonna take renov8r's advice and haggle at the indie's. I'm hoping to get $75, or at least $50, off. The indie I went to quoted $819, and I didn't try to bargain, was looking at too many models. The good news is that there are at least a half-dozen good Bosch dealers around here so I can call around. The bad news is that the Seattle market seems to love paying full price (all those Microsofties, even with their stock options depressed ... heck, I used to be one).
No clearance models that I could see. Oh yes, Sears and Bosch do a nasty trick. I saw an SHX55xx at Sears for $779, $40 cheaper. But the reason it's cheaper is that the Sears model gets the "standard" rack instead of the general market "mid" rack -- no adjustability. That definitely makes it harder to get Sears to compare, let alone to match prices. Nasty little trick there.
There's one other interesting option. The Sears website still lists the discontinued SHU99xx model, that was top-rated by CR in 2002 and is still very highly rated. This is apparently a model special-run for Sears by Bosch. It claims to be very quiet at 48dB, and MAY have the "Premium" racking (I'd settle for the "Mid"). It seems to be very, very comparable to the SHX46xx (same cycles, same wash options, same general design). It was originally $869 ($900 according to CR) and is being discounted to $749 on the Sears web site.
However, this model isn't available in stores in my area and apparently you're supposed to buy it from the web site and pay $45 for delivery, and THEN pay for installation. That wipes out some of that price advantage there, especially if I can haggle down the price of the SHX46xx. |
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| one4gatr |
| The installation rebate is direct from Kitchen Aid.. but i cannot find it on their web site. I'll look for it today and let you know. You are right though sears is still giving the $35.00 off installation anyway. The no tax deal I was told by both Lowes and Sears that it's done corporate wide through Sears. The Lowes guy was a little pissed when I asked him about it and he said that because the unit is PERMANENTLY installed in your home it's subject to property taxes so hence no sales tax. But LOWES does tax them. Sears does not. The Sears guy told me it only applied when THEY installed it. But like I said SEARS did price match Lowes plus 10% plus the additional 10% off because of the sale. |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by one4gatr
The no tax deal I was told by both Lowes and Sears that it's done corporate wide through Sears. The Lowes guy was a little pissed when I asked him about it and he said that because the unit is PERMANENTLY installed in your home it's subject to property taxes so hence no sales tax. But LOWES does tax them. Sears does not. The Sears guy told me it only applied when THEY installed it.
Thank you for the information.
I called up three Sears stores in this area, and all of them told me they charge sales tax for dishwashers, regardless of who installs it.
Since sales tax policy is on a state level, it could be that the tax rules in my state (Washington) and your state are different. :( |
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| one4gatr |
Sorry to hear that. I am not really sure it's a state specific
thing though because Lowes charges sales tax on them and Sears does not. I guess the Sears salesperson was clueless because he told me it was corporate wide. Also the "free installation" on Kitchen Aid Dishwashers was a Lowes promotion. |
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| paul123 |
quote:
Originally posted by wmquan
Our 14-year old dishwasher seems to be leaking a small amount of water while it runs. I pulled off the lower panels and watched it with a flashlight while it was running. As far as I can tell, when the dishwasher begins to drain, water seems to drip from an area in the middle, possibly around a valve that seems to be involved in the draining process.
I assume this is a replace rather than repair situation? After all, 14 year old dishwasher, availability of newer, more efficient, and quieter models? I figure getting a repairman over will be at least $100, especially since they'll probably have to pull out the unit and flip it over to work on the parts. I had heard that some dishwasher repairs are do-it-yourself, e.g. replacing a door seal. Unfortunately, it doesn't look like a door seal.
I figure that Consumer Reports is really good for this type of thing (not much subjective evaluation is required). Their only problem is that can't test every model that's out there. Right now I'm leaning toward a two-rack Maytag model (MDB7600) that they recommended. Only "average" energy efficient, but above-average in noise and apparently flexible in loading (you can lower the top rack and put 10" dishes in both the top and bottom).
Maytag makes interesting three-rack models (MDB8600, MDB9600) so you can put frying pans, baking sheets, etc. in the shallow bottom, but it apparently compromises room in the top and middle rack a lot. And reviews on Epinions have not been flattering of the three-rackers.
CR also liked a specific Kenmore model but it doesn't seem to stand out more than the Maytag, though Kenmore has been somewhat more reliable than Maytag according to CR. Plus Sears, in their usual way, is constantly switching model numbers to confuse the issue. CR liked the bottom-end KitchenAid, but it seems to trade off higher energy efficiency vs. the Maytag at the expense of loading flexibility.
I like the Bosch models on paper. Ultra-quiet, snazzy design, innovative features. But these German-made units are like the dishwasher counterpart to a Mercedes-Benz ... the trade-offs are higher maintenance (filter isn't self-cleaning), expensive, and not highly reliable (one of the worse brands in CR's view).
I have the older model the MDB6000 and can swear by it, it's great and very quiet. Cleans pots and pans and don't even need to use the heat dry to dry dishes. Excellent machine, the only better would be the Bosch with much higher initial cost and maintenance. I strongly would recommend the Maytag, it was supposed to have the most jets for cleaning the dishes. |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by paul123
I have the older model the MDB6000 and can swear by it, it's great and very quiet. Cleans pots and pans and don't even need to use the heat dry to dry dishes. Excellent machine, the only better would be the Bosch with much higher initial cost and maintenance. I strongly would recommend the Maytag, it was supposed to have the most jets for cleaning the dishes.
Thanks Paul. I was beginning to think that no one here has a "basic brand" dishwasher (as opposed to a "premium brand" like Bosch or KitchenAid).
The newer Maytag MDB7600 is, according to Consumer Reports, as quiet as the most expensive KitchenAid, cleans as well, but isn't as energy efficient and doesn't have the stainless steel tub. It's also under $500. It has all the interior loading flexibility. It does feel a bit cheap, though, I think newer dishwashers use even more lightweight plastics -- the door felt really light and flimsy compared to my old GE Potscrubber 1100.
The Bosch I'm looking at is more energy efficient, significantly quieter, runs cycles quicker, has a stainless steel tub, and seems more durable. I'm down to a $300 price difference now and I guess it's justified given the stainless steel tub (usually adds about $100), the extra hushness, extra features, and fancier design (concealed controls, which usually cost more).
I think we'll probably get the Bosch but I'm still worried about the reliability. While reports here are good, Epinions.com does have a number of complaints. The site below has even more complaints about Bosch dishwashers, though it may be more skewed toward the negative like some rate-the-product sites tend to be. And while CR does show a higher repair rate for Bosch, they're not THIS bad:
http://www.10goldstars.com/bosch-di...eviews-513.html
Reading those comments do give me pause. I just don't want to end up regretting that I passed on solid and reliable and capable but not flashy, in favor of fancy and slick but unreliable. However, a lot of the complaints in the link above seem to be with specific models with specific designs (at least when someone actually specifies it, which is a huge problem on that site -- epinions.com is superior). |
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| renov8r |
...as I said me & the renov8rtress are INSANE shoppers (just a for instance this past weekend we went to the mall on BOTH Saturday & SUNDAY with the 18 month old & the TWO week old...)
We have the Bosch-- no problems -- knock on silicone... we asked around a DOZEN folks who have SIMILAR vintage Boschs whether they'd buy 'em -- all thumbs up -- we went to AT LEAST SIX completely INDEPENDANT dealers and NONE of them "bad mouthed" the Bosch (and some of these dealers also sold the really exotic brands (Fisher & Paykels, Viking, Miele, Equator...) and did not hestitate to say of those are "more for look than function..."
SO, are the 10 stars folks fibbing? I doubt it, afterall there are MANY different models, some with overcomplicated controls and/or outdated electro-mechanical controls. As I said, we got the "simple" hidden control model and have been VERY happy, we don't find it lacking in features/function at all. In fact, as far as "delayed start" goes we often do a cycle as we head to bed, it truly is so quiet that the HVAC downs out most noise. (and we are both "morning shower" people so there is no hot water issue) |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by renov8r
SO, are the 10 stars folks fibbing? I doubt it, afterall there are MANY different models, some with overcomplicated controls and/or outdated electro-mechanical controls. As I said, we got the "simple" hidden control model and have been VERY happy, we don't find it lacking in features/function at all. In fact, as far as "delayed start" goes we often do a cycle as we head to bed, it truly is so quiet that the HVAC downs out most noise. (and we are both "morning shower" people so there is no hot water issue)
Well, let's hope so, because we ordered a Bosch SHX46 dishwasher today! White finish, with the concealed controls. 50 dB sound rating, with the top-rack-only wash option. This is basically the second-cheapest Bosch model with the concealed controls (the SHX33 is the cheapest one, comes with "standard" racks and a 54 dB sound rating).
Spoke to five independent dealerships (didn't visit them all). No major reports of unreliability, though some may sense what brand you're interested in and adjust accordingly. Curiously, one salesperson swore that they tend to perform warranty service on more KitchenAids than Bosch models.
Priced worked out to be $799. I got quotes varying from the "sucker" price of $979, to an "$849 minimum quotable price that Bosch lets us give customers who aren't contractors" (I actually got the latter three times; two of those said that they could go lower if I brought in a local, documented price). For comparison, the cheapest price I could find on the Internet (found six different dealers that will ship appliances to you) was $779 so I think I'm in the right range. Got an extended warranty price knocked down a bit. Bosch has a $50 installation rebate going now and my power company will give a $20 rebate for an Energy Star dishwasher.
Regarding the lack of delay start, my power company doesn't give a break to running the dishwasher late at night, so that made it much less of an issue. I'm counting on the quietness of the dishwasher to just let us run it immedately. The plumbing in the house is decent enough so that it shouldn't affect showers.
Regarding the 10goldstars website, most of the posters don't indicate which model they've had a problem with. However, if there's any common thread to them, they seem to be 1) the models with the push-button controls and 2) the touchpad ones apparently limited to a specific model range.
Sears sells the Bosch line but beware the subtle differences. E.g. I bought the SHX46A model, but Sears has Bosch make the SHX46B. Huge difference -- the Sears model has the cheaper sound insulation package, 54 dB versus 50 dB, and only has the mid-level rack on the top, and not the bottom. With those specs, it's barely better than the Bosch SHX33A model (which has the same sound rating).
I would have bought the one that Bosch used to make for Sears, the SHU9952. It's been discontinued but the web site has it at a good closeout price of $749.99 -- and it's 48dB, with premium racks. Unfortunately Sears seems to have the remaining ones only available for certain parts of the country, they won't ship it to some parts (I guess they're in regional warehouses). Oh well.
Anyway, thank you and everyone else here for the feedback. You got me really interested in the Bosch again, and in my heart, that's what I really wanted all along. It'll be installed next Monday and hopefully everything will go nicely. |
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| renov8r |
quote:
Originally posted by wmquan
Well, let's hope so, because we ordered a Bosch SHX46 dishwasher today! ...
Priced worked out to be $799. I got quotes varying from the "sucker" price of $979, to an "$849 minimum quotable price that Bosch lets us give customers who aren't contractors" ... It'll be installed next Monday and hopefully everything will go nicely.
It is simply AMAZING that so many stores will straight faced say they sell 'em for MSRP -- oh wait, this is the MDX board :D
But seriously, I think you will be very pleased with the model. If you have an older dishwasher the lack of whoosh-grind-chug type sounds is simply amazing. The loudest sound we typically hear is from the drain, the other sounds are like a fridge compressor. I think they may have stolen some technology from a Navy sub program ;)
There is something magic about drying agent in the Bosch dishwasher -- if you run out it will be a sad day as you almost certainly WILL have some moisture on the dishes/glasses. We buy the HUGE size rinse agent at Costco and/or stock up the regular size bottles at WalMart (where they will honor the coupons that Bosch packs into the owners packet...) While you're at WalMart you pick up some "Sam's Choice" dishwasher powder, which CU gave top marks to, I suggest getting a RubberMaid pitcher to store the powder in, as the POS cardboard 'box' will let moisture in and turn the the stuff into a brick otherwise... |
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| paul123 |
| EXCELLENT CHOICE, I'M SURE YOU WILL BE HAPPY FOR YEARS TO COME! |
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