| wmquan |
Brands with the fewest problems per 100 vehicles, for three-year old vehicles:
1) Lexus
2) Infiniti
3) Buick
4) Porsche
5) Acura
6) Toyota
7) Cadillac
8) Lincoln
9) Honda
10) Mercury
By manufacturer:
1) Porsche
2) Toyota
3) Honda
4) Nissan
5) BMW
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos...8-quality_x.htm
Now, take all of this with a grain of salt. There's been plenty of threads here discussing the viability / fallability of JD Power's surveys. Including their problems-per-100 counts. |
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| MDX350 |
| buick and cadillac above honda? these JD power guys are smoking something ...... I have known many people with TONS of problems with these two brands. |
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| xcel |
Hi MDX350:
___Not to defend the domestics but they have come up in quality over the decades given your statements about Caddy and Buick owners with tons of problems. Have you ever perused the MDX Problems forum? I know a lot more people with problems with their X’s than I know of from any other make or model. Our own X had a defective wiper spray, Sub woofer screw threads stripped, seat belt knick(s), and the exterior is so thin as to be almost laughable. My Brother-in-laws 01 Chevrolet Silverado 2500 (loaded) and my fathers 03 Yukon haven’t ever seen the shop? My fathers 98 Expedition never saw the shop either? My 2000 Chevrolet truck never saw the shop other than for a cracked windscreen which was caused by a gravel truck. I am not saying there is not trouble with the domestics because there must be given all that you read about it but in my own experience, my 97 Nissan truck and our 91 Honda Accord, have been far more costly and much more troublesome. Even my 03 Corolla needed 2 visits to cure itself of a bad Goodyear Integrity tire problem. No fault of Toyota itself but it was in the shop twice within its first 5000 miles.
___Finally, given the cost of Caddy’s lately, I wouldn’t mind owning one. I am partial to the CTS ;) I know your resale is screwed but if they make it up on the sale side, it might just be worth it for those of us longing for a domestic with a lot more bells and whistles. Now if they only got 44.2 mpg like my Corolla w/ Auto just did :( Need I mention that these high end domestics have considerably more comfort than our X’s?
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| Bnuke |
| I guess that maybe I can see how the mirrors dripping water on a newly Zaino'd MDX can be placed in the same "problems" category as the "grinding transmission shakes" my friends 2003 Cadillac CTS experiences when driving over 70. Of course it may be the precursor tremors as the CTS approaches the requisite 88 mph for time travel. |
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| xcel |
Hi Bnuke:
___I understand you have a friend with a tranny problem on an 03 CTS? Have you read this thread? Like I said, just walk yourself down the Problem forum for a good look at what our X’s have provided. After looking at the list, I believe most of these are a bit more serious than the weeping mirror issue so many of the 01 owners had to deal with …
___On a different note, I do enjoy our X and its amenities but as far as quality, I am a bit disappointed. I didn’t mention the small pin sized tear in the driver door leather/pleather insert which will take another trip to the dealer and god knows how long to get that fixed and the 4000 mile traveled X seats are already showing the infamous worn look :3:
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| Bnuke |
xcel,
You're right and I suspect that the CTS problem is more of a "first generation" CTS issue. The CTS is actually a nice car for the price. And while I haven't had any problems with my X I find myself wanting some of the Cadillac features such as the ability to custom program almost every function in the car...really cool.
I'm driving my 5th Honda/Acura product and can't seem to break away from them. While my cars have had some problems the effort by Honda to fix them has been significantly better than what my friends with their domestics have experienced. Take a Dodge product in for service someday and see what happens. I have yet to hear a good story from them...of course, they aren't on the list.
Was anyone else surprised that Porsche was up there? I'm guessing that the repairs are so expensive that nobody has them done. I know that the oil change costs over $250 if the dealership does it. |
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| wmquan |
I think a number of factors are showing up in the JD Power results.
1) As discussed in other threads, I think Consumer Reports' surveys are more accurate for 3-4 year old vehicles. People quibble about the details but CR is probably the best that's out there. They tend to have some different numbers than these mid-term JD Power results. However, the differences are not huge so there are some patterns of agreement.
2) As surprising as it may be to some who are not as familiar with newer domestic vehicles, their quality has definitely been improving.
3) That said, a brand's score can be heavily affected by the vehicles they are carrying at the time. Remember these are three year old vehicles -- vehicles like the MDX aren't even in there. The Honda scores are probably negatively affected by the Honda Passport (rebadged Isuzu Rodeo) and the significant problems that the Honda Odyssey had. I'm not sure if the early redesigned Honda Civic is in there -- it definitely had some quality problems. I'm also not sure if the Acura SLX (rebadged Isuzu Trooper) are in these numbers as well.
So it's easy to see how Honda and Acura didn't do quite as well as some might have expected.
4) Numbers like the Buicks are heavily influenced by the mix of vehicles and their driver demographics. For three year old vehicles, they have to be talking about the Regal, Century, Park Avenue, and that other big sedan that Buick sells. Typically sold to buyers in their 50's and 60's, and not driven particularly hard. The Rendezvous wasn't out yet I do think that Buick builds better qualify vehicles than most other GM divisions, but I suspect their problem counts benefit here. Whereas Toyota and Honda tend to have a younger, harder-driving demographic. JMHO.
On the other hands, the Buicks fare significantly worse in CR's surveys so who knows for sure.
5) Can't really explain the Porsche numbers, though they've done pretty well in CR as well.
6) Still mystifying are the Subaru numbers, where CR has them much higher. |
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| Captain MDX |
| What???????????????????????????????? Buick?????????????????????????????????? That SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't believe it am I dreaming?????????????????????? |
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| alphaforcex |
quote:
Originally posted by xcel
Hi MDX350:
[DELETED]...my 97 Nissan truck and our 91 Honda Accord, have been far more costly and much more troublesome.
I used to have a '91 Accord but it's been trouble free the entire time I owned it ('95-'00). Consumer report also listed my Mitsubishi Eclipse as unreliable and it has never seen the shop except the only one time that the battery was dead in its first year. I got friends who bought the exact same car and need to take back to the dealership almost every month in its first year. I guess I must be lucky! :) I hope my '03 MDX is as troublefree as my other cars. I'll have my finger crossed. |
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| msu79gt82 |
| US manufacturers are gaining (rapidly) on foreign quality and no amount of delusional self-denying can change that. |
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| donsev |
quote:
Originally posted by wmquan
6) Still mystifying are the Subaru numbers, where CR has them much higher.
While not their best showing, Subaru is still above average and higher than Nissan. In addition, the 3-year old cut-off would put the rating squarely on the (then) all new Forester and completely re-designed Legacy/Outback. Meaning that roughly 90% of Subaru's sales volume during that period was attributable to models in (basically) their first-year of production. I can't recall any major issues, so I assume it was/is first-year niggles. |
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| DEZRVIT |
| Keep in mind, those JD numbers are driven off "reported" problems, purely based on the consumer and what they are willing to tolerate. They are highly subjective, and hardly an accurate representation of the truth. Kind of the garbage in - garbage out theory. |
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| MDX350 |
apart from measurement issues, these numbers are so highly aggregated across dissimilar vehicles (cars/suvs/vans) and varied price segments, that they don't make much sense.
take mercedes for example. their M class is what destroyed their rating. their E-class is one of the finest luxury sedans around, even quality wise.
JD power should go to segment level details, otherwise its just junk. Also age group of drivers matters. |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by MDX350
JD power should go to segment level details, otherwise its just junk.
JD Power actually does go down to the segment level, and to the vehicle level. Press releases love to focus on the brands, though.
You can see individual vehicle results at:
http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/jdpa...indJdAwards.jsp
quote:
take mercedes for example. their M class is what destroyed their rating. their E-class is one of the finest luxury sedans around, even quality wise.
Actually, the M-class didn't destroy Mercedes's rating. I checked the 2000 scores for all MB vehicles, and the E-class had similar quantities of problems as the M-class. At least according to JD Power (again, please take these with a grain of salt). The S-class didn't do well either. The CLK was near average, the SLK slightly above average. Not enough data for the C-class.
I checked the Honda numbers and, sure enough, the worse performing vehicle was the Passport. |
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| ImOnlyTen |
| I never trusted J.D power myself |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by ImOnlyTen
I never trusted J.D power myself
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| ostrowc |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
US manufacturers are gaining (rapidly) on foreign quality and no amount of delusional self-denying can change that.
North American OEMs are improving the quality of vehicles but loosing market share as well as increasing giveback per vehicle content whereas imports are decreasing their givebacks and increasing market share.
A rather disturbing trend. |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
:jester: |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by MDX350
buick and cadillac above honda? these JD power guys are smoking something ...... I have known many people with TONS of problems with these two brands.
Agreed |
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| Blackura |
I rented a new DeVille with 2000 miles on it, and the dashboard kept blacking out. I just KNOW that fixing that has to be expensive and involved. That was my only domestic car experience in a while, and figured it might be nice to check out how much "quality has improved" on American cars. I'd never buy one.
Very comfy, powerful car though. |
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| norcalchuck |
quote:
Originally posted by Blackura
I rented a new DeVille with 2000 miles on it, and the dashboard kept blacking out. I just KNOW that fixing that has to be expensive and involved. That was my only domestic car experience in a while, and figured it might be nice to check out how much "quality has improved" on American cars. I'd never buy one.
Very comfy, powerful car though.
What's the definition of an "American" car? Does it include Nissan, Mercedes, BMW and others assembled in the US? ( And soon to include Hyundai). Is it the nationality of a majority of stock ownership? Is it the site of the home office? Is it 51% of the originating country for parts? Or is it a plurality of parts for the location if no one country is 51%? I think the line on that has become blurred. Is Mercedes and American car? |
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| hockeyplayer |
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by ImOnlyTen
I never trusted J.D power myself
quote:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by msu79gt82
How long you been reading J.D. Power?
___________________________________________________
LOL....they rated the top ten go cart manufacturers a month ago. Before that was the special edition Skateboard survey.:) :) |
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