| laborlitigator |
Not a documentary watcher but I rented the movie and absolutely loved it.
It really is fascinating how, as a country, we are obsessed with firearms, controlled by the media and are surrounded by violence.
The topper though is how he gets Charlton Heston - - Moses himself - - to walk away from an interview, IN HIS OWN HOUSE!
(Nobody's getting me to walk away from anywhere in my own home, I'm sorry. . . )
If you haven't rented, give it a try. |
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| mogur |
Yep, I saw it and thought it was great. Very well done.
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Not a documentary watcher but I rented the movie and absolutely loved it.
It really is fascinating how, as a country, we are obsessed with firearms, controlled by the media and are surrounded by violence.
The topper though is how he gets Charlton Heston - - Moses himself - - to walk away from an interview, IN HIS OWN HOUSE!
(Nobody's getting me to walk away from anywhere in my own home, I'm sorry. . . )
If you haven't rented, give it a try.
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| Fireblade6 |
As a matter of fact....I just saw it..
I will NEVER EVER have the same respect for Dick Clark and Charles Heston again...What a buncha *ssholes.... |
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| renov8r |
alot of the scenes in R&M were sorta stagey, but at least it was mostly done in "wink 'n nod"sorta way.
In "columbine" MM went off the deep end. He edited so much of the stuff to suit his personal idealogy that he clearly misrepresented the actions/words of almost everybody -- from the bank teller (who admits that they do not hand out guns, merely give people a certificate, and MM had them GET the gun wait TWO weeks then COME BACK and act like it was all at once) to Heston (who does have Alzheimers...) ...
Not a very good place for a "documentary" ... |
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| laborlitigator |
| I didn't know that about about the bank. . . overall, though, I really liked it. |
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| HARDROCK |
Saw it in Seattle with my friend and I being the only "people of color" in the audience. It got real quiet during the animated portion about the history of blacks in America (but we were laughing our heads off!).
Highly recommend - plan to show my high school students this year. |
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| BaldEagle |
| Michael Moore:28: |
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| BigDog |
We rented it last weekend. I liked it a lot, and I would recommend that you see it before bashing it. The big surprise is how well spoken and intelligent Marilyn Manson sounded. Who knew?
I didn't think it was all that anti-gun, but then I'm not a gun nut either. Neither is Terry Nichols' brother, (according to him), but then he veers off into weirdo-land shortly after saying that, proving by his own words and deeds just what a lunatic he really is. Paranoia like that is exactly what breeds the Timothy McVeighs of our world.
Michael Moore grew up with guns, was a champion shooter as a teenager, and is a lifetime member of the NRA, and I think that give him a certain credibility on the subject of guns, and gun violence. It's not like he grew up on a hippy commune living peace and love.
I thought it was more about our American culture of violence and fear than anti-gun, but it is pretty anti-Corporate America.
Mrs. BigDog |
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| mdxxxx |
| Wow, I just saw approx 10 minutes of it in passing... from the looks of it, I'll have to rent it now... |
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| Number 6 |
yeah, it's great if you like totally falsified "documentaries".
not only should that america-hating jerk be sued for libel/slander and defamation of character by those whose words he edited, and whose images he manipulated to show what they did not show originally, he should also be forced to publically apologize for his intentional smears of virtually everyone in his film opposed to his socialistic anti-second amendment drivel. |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by Number 6
yeah, it's great if you like totally falsified "documentaries".
not only should that america-hating jerk be sued for libel/slander and defamation of character by those whose words he edited, and whose images he manipulated to show what they did not show originally, he should also be forced to publically apologize for his intentional smears of virtually everyone in his film opposed to his socialistic anti-second amendment drivel.
Specifics please. . . I didn't see anything doctored in the way Mr. Heston or Mr. Clark responded. |
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| keremoner |
| Don't watch anything produced by that freak!! I never support quasi-communist Hollywood leftists with my dollars. |
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| zafer |
| Watched it last night. Well done. |
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| Number 6 |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Specifics please. . . I didn't see anything doctored in the way Mr. Heston or Mr. Clark responded.
please check this website. it goes into painstaking detail as to how heston's and others comments were edited to have them making statements they did not make.
this guy should be sued for every dollar he made on this piece of trash.
www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html |
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| keremoner |
quote:
Originally posted by Number 6
please check this website. it goes into painstaking detail as to how heston's and others comments were edited to have them making statements they did not make.
this guy should be sued for every dollar he made on this piece of trash.
www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
AMEN !!! |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by Number 6
please check this website. it goes into painstaking detail as to how heston's and others comments were edited to have them making statements they did not make.
this guy should be sued for every dollar he made on this piece of trash.
www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
I have not seen the movie, yet, based on the referenced article
the only arms going to and from the LM facility belong to security guards working there. I can attest to that first-hand.
The rest I don't know, but certainly looks highly suspect.
BTW Number 6, not to beg the issue, but 2 elderlys in Honda Civic were killed by a pickup truck running a redlight last Friday in suburban Fresno at a major intersection during rush hour. The vehicle was literally blown off the road. A police spokesman was quoted as saying the video from the camera on the signal post will be priceless in concluding the investigation.
Agreed, sometimes it can go too far, but not sure where you would draw the line. |
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| keremoner |
| STOP watching (thus supporting) movies made by Hollywood leftists. This bunch make me sick to my stomach! |
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| Number 6 |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
Agreed, sometimes it can go too far, but not sure where you would draw the line.
check out the film "minority report". one of the striking things in this film was the use of retina scans everywhere people went. they were used for targeting advertising but were also used by the police to track people's movements by the minute. this type of thing is what scares me and the technology is here, today. all that has to happen is for us to keep giving up our rights by inches. we have proven time and again we are more than willing to do so. red light cameras are just the latest intrusion. but, "it's for the children..." sound familiar? |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by Number 6
check out the film "minority report". one of the striking things in this film was the use of retina scans everywhere people went. they were used for targeting advertising but were also used by the police to track people's movements by the minute. this type of thing is what scares me and the technology is here, today. all that has to happen is for us to keep giving up our rights by inches. we have proven time and again we are more than willing to do so. red light cameras are just the latest intrusion. but, "it's for the children..." sound familiar?
Office of Homeland Defense
Too much power to government, agreed. |
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| Number 6 |
| we're off topic but judging from the silence on this thread, a few people have checked out the link i posted. |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by Number 6
we're off topic but judging from the silence on this thread, a few people have checked out the link i posted.
True in my case, I've checked out the link. I still want to see the film in its entirety before I reach any conclusions. The portion of the film I did see, however, was a bit comical. The irrational fears some people have, also, the attempt to interview an officer who was completely ignoring him. The segment was hilarious...:D |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by Number 6
check out the film "minority report". one of the striking things in this film was the use of retina scans everywhere people went. they were used for targeting advertising but were also used by the police to track people's movements by the minute. this type of thing is what scares me and the technology is here, today. all that has to happen is for us to keep giving up our rights by inches. we have proven time and again we are more than willing to do so. red light cameras are just the latest intrusion. but, "it's for the children..." sound familiar?
Oookkkk.....I saw the movie. I see that as quite a stretch. What the gov has now pales compared to redlight cameras. I fail to see much of a connection. A camera can be used for good or bad, gee sounds like a gun.. It is 2003 not 1984. I thought I was enlightened I guess I need to be more paranoid. |
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| XStatic |
Heston was apparently very prophetic:
http://www.hardylaw.net/Bowlingtranscript.html
One more thing. Our words and our behavior will be scrutinized more than ever this morning. Those who are hostile towards us will lie in wait to seize on a soundbite out of context, ever searching for an embarrassing moment to ridicule us. So, let us be mindful. The eyes of the nation are upon us today. |
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| robrecht |
I saw most of the movie (fell asleep for one part) and read the Hardy links.
Most intelligent viewers wouldn't expect a serious documentary from Michael Moore but rather the sarcastic, smart-alecky type of piece that he made in Roger and Me. Still, this was an even more serious subject, and Moore was not attempting to be as funny in Bowling for Columbine. He did play with facts in a manner akin to Oliver Stone's JFK and added a huge dose of sarcasm and not a little humor and even a cartoon.
While I do appreciate Hardy's rigorous attention to the factual details, at times he seemed to try and force Moore's piece into a genre that it just never intended. Should Heston sue Moore? Sure, if he wants.
But I also appreciate the questions that Moore was raising and I can even appreciate his smart aleck tone most of the time. Although it's a cliche, at times Moore really seemed to be raising questions rather than answering them. One of his questionable means of doing this was by forcing juxtapositions of events and ideas. Did he sometimes misrepresent and take things out of context. Sure. But some of his larger attempts at contextualizing this tragedy within larger societal and historical issues were at times thought provoking and profound IMHO. In the end, he was grasping at ways to make sense out of senseless tragedies. It was gutsy (and sometimes unfair) to employ humor and satire in this process.
Good film. Good discussion. Reality is sometimes complicated and deserves alternative viewpoints. While one may easily fault this "genre," personally I like it better than most polemical shouting matches I see on Cable TV. Lots of one-sided misprepresenting going on there, on both sides, but no one even hears what the other people are saying. |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by robrecht
Most intelligent viewers wouldn't expect a serious documentary from Michael Moore but rather the sarcastic, smart-alecky type of piece that he made in Roger and Me. Still, this was an even more serious subject, and Moore was not attempting to be as funny in Bowling for Columbine. He did play with facts in a manner akin to Oliver Stone's JFK and added a huge dose of sarcasm and not a little humor and even a cartoon.
While I do appreciate Hardy's rigorous attention to the factual details, at times he seemed to try and force Moore's piece into a genre that it just never intended. Should Heston sue Moore? Sure, if he wants.
But I also appreciate the questions that Moore was raising and I can even appreciate his smart aleck tone most of the time. Although it's a cliche, at times Moore really seemed to be raising questions rather than answering them. One of his questionable means of doing this was by forcing juxtapositions of events and ideas. Did he sometimes misrepresent and take things out of context. Sure. But some of his larger attempts at contextualizing this tragedy within larger societal and historical issues were at times thought provoking and profound IMHO. In the end, he was grasping at ways to make sense out of senseless tragedies. It was gutsy (and sometimes unfair) to employ humor and satire in this process.
Good film. Good discussion. Reality is sometimes complicated and deserves alternative viewpoints. While one may easily fault this "genre," personally I like it better than most polemical shouting matches I see on Cable TV. Lots of one-sided misprepresenting going on there, on both sides, but no one even hears what the other people are saying.
Well articulated analysis, robrecht. I think it adds some perspective...:4: |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxxxx
Well articulated analysis, robrecht. I think it adds some perspective...:4:
Thanks! This movie really provoked a lot of thought, even though I was dead tired and fell asleep. My wife and I decided to keep it an extra day and watch it again tonight. Hopefully, I can stay awake! |
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| wmquan |
Well said, robrecht. I hadn't bothered replying before (as I know where these kinds of discussions can go). But the Hardy claims may not be 100% kosher either, trying to force literal interpretations into areas that are, quite simply, gray. Trying to paint Moore into a corner that isn't really the intent of "Bowling for Columbine."
E.g. the business about Moore being incorrect about aid to the Taliban -- that it was humanitarian aid administered through the U.N. rather than direct military aid. From what we've seen of events throughout the world, humanitarian aid easily translates into military aid. Like humanitarian famine relief to Korea seems to end up first in the mouths of their considerable armed forces and not their starving citizens. Or humanitarian relief in various African nations being pillaged first by various militias. What is clear is that we were obviously subsidizing the growth of the Taliban for a long time, starting with the considerable aid we gave to the mujahedin so they could drive out the Soviet occupation. Was the aid as direct as Moore claims? Probably not. Was it still aid and comfort? Probably.
It's fine to question Moore's motives, as he clearly has an agenda. But a lot of the conservative bile directed at him also seems to be following an agenda. It's up to the individual to decide.
I welcome Moore's materials, though I haven't gotten around to watching "Bowling for Columbine" yet. I don't take everything he says as a given, going back to "Roger and Me." I enjoy the humor in his work, and take the facts with a grain of salt that's worth thinking about. But I'll make up my own mind rather than have it made up for me. The First Amendment, what a concept! |
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| XStatic |
quote:
Originally posted by wmquan
The First Amendment, what a concept!
I have never purchased a gun and don't expect to ever join the NRA. But I think the point from their perspective is:
The Second Amendment, what a concept!
Personally I think the anti gun people should start working on ammunition. The most reasonable thing I think is to require a license to buy it, track the purchase and use of it, tax it, put tags in the powder to trace purchase like they do in England. Basically turn the ATF into ATA (Alcohol Tobacco and Ammunition). As far as I am concerned anybody should be able to own what ever piece of hardware they want. Howitzer, Anti Tank, Grenade Launcher, but the ammunition should be scarce and highly controlled. |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by XStatic
Personally I think the anti gun people should start working on ammunition. The most reasonable thing I think is to require a license to buy it, track the purchase and use of it, tax it, put tags in the powder to trace purchase like they do in England. Basically turn the ATF into ATA (Alcohol Tobacco and Ammunition). As far as I am concerned anybody should be able to own what ever piece of hardware they want. Howitzer, Anti Tank, Grenade Launcher, but the ammunition should be scarce and highly controlled.
Sort of like the Chris Rock segment in Bowling for Columbine? That was hilarious. |
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| perk |
quote:
Originally posted by BaldEagle
Michael Moore:28:
Normally I hate to copy others, but in this case I believe BaldEagle puts it perfectly. |
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| hhwc |
Moore is an idiot.
He's part of the same bunch that is against self-defense; most likely part of the same group that screams we should do nothing after being attacked (embassies, USS Cole, 9-11, etc...)
Predators hunt weak prey...(FACT OF NATURE) |
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| dbehrens |
We liked it so much we bought a copy. :4:
I loved the part about getting a gun for opening up a deposit at a bank. It is too ironic about getting a gun at a bank no matter how long you have to wait. Next, the bank can give out ammo so the new customer can make a withdrawal. :D |
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| MDX350 |
Before commenting, everyone should take a world history book, and read about how civilizations have evolved over the centuries, and who has killed whom over the years. Its quite an eye opener - you may choose to ignore the facts, but the facts are there, whether you like it or not. Facts will not change just because someone chooses to ignore or deny them.
Unfortunately, most of our media does a pretty good job of totally suppressing these facts. That's why one needs to turn to books, and READ - FOX news just doesn't cut it.
Its some of those very facts that were shown in this movie. |
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| laborlitigator |
| That's why they should outlaw "organized" religion. |
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| robrecht |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
That's why they should outlaw "organized" religion.
I think they tried that once somewhere but as I recall the killing didn't stop. |
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