| Captain MDX |
A member from vtec.net snapped these shots of the '04 Civic over the weekend while paying a visit to Bell Honda in Phoenix.
As you can see, the new car features nice looking 15" alloy wheels wearing Bridgestone Potenza RE92s, a great tire for the money. |
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| Captain MDX |
| 3: Finally, OEM alloys |
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| Warzau |
You got that right FINALLY!
Shoot even my 85 Nissan 200sx Had alloy wheels.
When I got my 95 Honda Civic top of the line EXA. It had steelies and hub caps( wheel cover) I was upset, I ended up getting aftermarket alloys. |
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| xcel |
Hi Captain MDX:
___I really like the new Civic alloys and the new front fascia as well. Very sleek and smooth. To bad they didn’t make the Alloys in a 17, 18, or 19 for the X ;)
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| xcel |
Hi Captain MDX:
___The 04 specs and pics are listed on the Honda Civic’s web site as well ...
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| Captain MDX |
| Very nice!! Thanks xcel :2: |
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| nwaring |
It's about time. With possible impending repairs on my daughters 95 Mazda (I have decided not to spend anymore money on this car) I have had her running around looking at the year-end specials on Corolla, Civic, and Protégés. When looking at the “LX” model type for all three the MSRP is pretty much the same. She has kind of chosen the Protégé so far and one of her reasons was the overall look because of the wheels on the Mazda, which are standard alloy. I don’t have a problem with any of these three so what ever she likes the best is good with me but maybe now she should check out the 04 Civic.
Niles:) |
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| Warzau |
| She should, I like the Current Gen body, I always thought the 5th Gen was the best looking. But this current one is looking less granny. |
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| xcel |
Hi Nwaring:
___Being an 03 Corolla owner myself, the 03 Civic was right there in my decision.
___That being said, I have been watching the Hybrid groups over at Edmunds the last few weeks and it was only a few months ago that Honda was offering businesses a break to pull in a Civic Hybrid (HCH for short) for ~ $16K. Of course this was for businesses and only in the far west from my reads ...
___If that promotion were to be made available in Ohio (damn things are built just down the road!), it might be something you may want to look into. Not only does the HCH have many of the amenities of the EX like ABS and Auto climate but at $16K, you get tremendous mileage (EPA rated Manual - 46/51 CVT – 47/48) and even low emissions (ULEV or AT-PZEV depending on the emission equipment installed) than the std. Civics. Add in the 2,000 Federal deduction (your tax rate X $2,000) and it comes out to be a pretty good deal if you can find the same deal and you own a business of some type? Some in California are receiving a $2,000 tax credit from my understanding making this an even better deal for them ... I wouldn’t want to live in CA. given all the BS going on in that state but they have some very nice promotions, don’t they ;)
___I know, lots of ifs but if something is available in your state, you may want to look into it ...
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| nwaring |
Warsau...she would like that. Actually she wants a RSX Type S but because she has zero money and I'm paying, the Civic, Protégé, Corolla is as good as it gets. :D
Wayne, that's interesting, I'll do some checking on that but I don't know if she would be happy with the performance of the hybrids. She likes the 5-speed in this class of car because it feels "more" peppier to her; which it is.
Actually I was just talking to her and much to her dismay (she wants a new car) the problems, which we have been discussing over the phone (she’s at college) aren’t much of a problem. Going off her description of the noise she has been getting while shifting I thought maybe something like the throw-out bearing or the clutch was going bad. Turns out, the shop thinks, the heat shield on the cat is vibrating during her shifts. The check engine light is on now so depending on what is up with that she still might be in luck. :)
Niles |
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| ace3 |
| Are these cars meant to be sold outside the United States and Canada. They have clear corners, which U.S and Canadian Vehical regulations specify that you must have orange turn signal corners??? |
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| Dale MDX |
| Unless things are changing, the Civic Hybrid is only imported from Japan, not made in Ohio. As far as I'm concerned, that's a good thing. (Assembly quality). Also, as far as I know the Civic EX doesn't offer auto. climate control. That's a feature that only the hybrid has. It works very well. The hybrid isn't offered with a sunroof. Don't know why. Maybe weight, or maybe it's one more feature that would put the price even higher. There's currently a $2000 federal tax deduction (Not tax credit) on the hybrid, and you don't have to itemize to get it. It's questionable whether the hybrid will pay for itself (difference between hybrid and EX) in gas savings. If gas goes higher, it will, but it also depends on battery life and cost for the hybrid. I've seen estimates of 100,000 miles to life of the car for battery life. Current price estimate is $3K, but Honda has hinted that should come way down by the time people actually need replacements. Another great hybrid benefit is a very long driving range before refilling the tank. I always get 600 plus miles and could go 700 sometimes. The hybrid is also lowered about 1/2 inch over regular Civics and has bigger anti-roll bars. That's not too widely known. (But, fortunately for mpg and unfortunately for cornering, it has low-rolling-resistance tires that aren't the stickiest). |
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| xcel |
Hi Dale MDX:
___On a TCO basis, the Hybrid’s (Civic/Insight/03 or the new 04 Prius) don’t stand a chance of paying off vs. a std. ICE based automobile of similar size and manufacture here in the states. The initial cost as well as their resale is too damaging to make up for the fuel savings and the tax incentives that someone would receive here in the states. At your fuel cost however, it’s probably a lot closer to break even ... What a Hybrid does offer anyone considering one is a somewhat luxuriously trimmed vehicle that is as green (lowest emissions) as they come.
___The largest problem with the older and even the latest gen Hybrid’s is their initial cost, the lack of performance, the looming battery replacement at 100,000 to 150,000 miles or more, and terrible resale for whatever reason. It just can’t be made up unless gasoline goes to $3.00 + per gallon and even then, you might be looking at break even depending on your commute and driving habits ...
___As for 600 miles to a tank, I have been receiving 600 + miles per tank from my 03 Corolla LE w/ Auto for over 6 months. The last time I did not achieve the miles or the mileage if I filled up early was around late February/early March of last year w/ winter temps more than likely keeping the Corolla from its best in terms of mileage :( In any case, not bad for a < $15,000 (after rebates if purchased this month) 03 Corolla LE w/ Auto/ABS/ EBD/PW/PL/PM/Cruise.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| Dale MDX |
I'm not sure what the resale situation is. I've seen (heard about) some people getting very reasonable trade-ins and I've seen some eBay sales come out OK. But resale probably is lower than it should/could be, and that's because the public has absolutely no clue what these cars are. Honda doesn't even have an advertising campaign for the hybrid. I have yet NOT to be asked the question "how often do you have to plug it in?" by people when discussing the car. People also have the preconceived notion that the vehicle can't get out of its own way under any circumstances. "I sure wouldn't want to be stuck behind one!" In city driving, it's as fast as anything else, practically speaking. You can be first away from a stoplight if you want to be. (We're not talking about drag racing, but normal driving). However, on the highway, acceleration isn't the best. But the electric assist really helps. (Reported zero to sixty times with the 5 speed are typically 11 seconds). I know from experience that the speedo can pretty easily say "90 mph" when passing and still be accelerating. There are lots of cars and trucks out there with similar and slower performance that people don't complain about. (Lots of diesels, base 4 cylinder engines on some cars and pickups). So why complain about the hybrid? It isn't a sports car.
If resale is currently bad, I think it will improve greatly as other makers adopt hybrid technology and the public starts figuring out what it is, and realizing that it has real and conceptual advantages. Another point: no matter how bad the depreciation situation is with my hybrid, it will depreciate less in actual dollars than my MDX. Even if the hybrid depreciates (trade-in) by HALF in 2 years (not likely), it has depreciates less in actual dollars than a new MDX in that period. (Maybe not a fair comparison, of course, but a lost dollar is the same to me no matter where it's lost).
I don't use mine as my only vehicle, and I haven't even taken a long trip with it. I use it a little bit around town and for almost 100% of my commuting to work. In traffic, does 0-60 performance matter, if you're not a teen-ager? (By the way, when I get 600 miles on a tank, I have about 2 gallons left in the tank, meaning I can go another 100 miles if I need to. My tank is only 13.2 gal. My lowest ever mpg, first tank, in the winter, was over 46 mpg. My highest is 58, in the spring with no A/C use.)
Personally, I do expect gas to go to $3 per gallon. It might be a few years, but it will get there, either through "crisis" or through new taxes, or maybe both. If it doesn't, that's great. We'll all save money.
It may or may not pay off over the ownership period. I would have purchased a Civic EX (or maybe a Corolla LE) if the hybrid were not available. So I look at the cost difference as about $2,000, minus the ~$500 value of the tax deduction, or $1500. Then there's battery replacement, say conservatively at 100,000 miles. Some people at least pretending to be informed say $1000 for that. (I can buy the roughly equivalent batteries right now, retail, online for $600, although the charge/discharge characteristics might not be the same).
I drive the hybrid about 15,500 miles per year right now. I get 53 mpg average. Assume with the Civic EX I would get 40 mpg average. At $1.75/gallon, the EX annual gas cost would be $656 and the hybrid's would be $495, for a difference of $161 annually. So without getting into "opportunity cost", etc., the payback period for a $1,500 savings is over 9 years. And then you have to spend maybe $1000 on new batteries. So, under that scenario, assume "break even" over the long term. (At $3 per gallon, it definitely starts paying off).
If you assume the resale value is terrible, then I suppose a person could buy a USED hybrid, letting somebody else take the depreciation hit, and buy it cheaper than even a used Civic or Corolla with similar features and age. In this situation, I think it would clearly pay off economically. Or, if resale is bad, then a person should also be able to negotiate a huge discount on a NEW hybrid, bringing the initial cost way down compared to other Civics, right? (Where I live, anyway, new ones aren't discounted much, and I've never encountered a used one. I haven't found any owners that would think of selling theirs).
Do our MDX's pay off over buying a Pilot or a minivan, or a used sport utility of any make? Why do people insist hybrid technology has to pay off when very few other decisions we make meet that criteria? None of us looked at the MDX purchase as a decision that had to be the lowest ownership cost over the complete range of alternatives. We also don't buy houses that way, or furniture, etc. We all look at lots of objective and subjective factors. "Green" can be one of those factors, legitimately. The mileage and technology is actually fun, and the car ends up with "personality" because of its characteristics. Looking on a few different forums, I'm not seeing owners that regret buying. (That's not 100% the case with the MDX).
Whenever I drive my MDX, I now miss the regenerative braking, dying at a stop light with incredibly instantaneous restart when ready to go, lean burn on the highway, and other hybrid features that increase efficiency. As I own both types of technology, it has become clear just how wasteful the conventional technology is. I'm not against it, I'm not anti-SUV, and I'm not selling my MDX anytime soon, but we could all be getting maybe several mpg better with a minimal up-front investment. (And, yes, I'd like to see it done without losing any engine power). The Lexus RX330 will reportedly be offering a hybrid version, among others. |
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| nwaring |
quote:
Originally posted by nwaring
It's about time. With possible impending repairs on my daughters 95 Mazda (I have decided not to spend anymore money on this car) I have had her running around looking at the year-end specials on Corolla, Civic, and Protégés. When looking at the “LX” model type for all three the MSRP is pretty much the same. She has kind of chosen the Protégé so far and one of her reasons was the overall look because of the wheels on the Mazda, which are standard alloy. I don’t have a problem with any of these three so what ever she likes the best is good with me but maybe now she should check out the 04 Civic.
Niles:)
Well I caved in and the verdict is a 2003 Mazda Protégé LX 5-speed. Options were a moon roof, 6 CD changer and rear spoiler.
MSRP 16,995
Discount 1,254
Mazda Rebate 2,500
Total 13,201
Plus she can get another $500 bucks from Mazda if she fills out a college graduate form. Supposedly Mazda does this if you’re inside 2 years of graduation which she is.
She decided she didn't really like the Corolla. The Honda dealer didn't have much to choose from and pretty much ignored her. The Mazda dealer treated her nice, let her test drive by herself and she really liked the car and it’s features. As it is a 3-hour drive to where she is in college I let (and wanted) her do everything. As she as zero income I had to co-sign her loan. The dealer was willing to overnight me the forms to sign. She picks it up Monday.
For me…I can’t wait until she graduates, gets a job and takes over these payments.:D
Niles |
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| xcel |
Hi Nwaring:
___It sounds like a great choice for your daughter :29:
___And don’t let her not fill out the College Grad paperwork for the extra $500.00!
___Dale’s MDX, the Hybrid’s (Prius/Civic – not including the Insight do to its size) would have to make up > $4K not including the opportunity costs over and above a Corolla LE here in the states which is too much to ever be made up by fuel alone. When the Hybrid’s have just a $2K cost premium, then they will pay. My last 632 mile tank in the 03 Corolla was at 41.96 mpg w/ 2 sub 32 degree commutes.
___As for the depreciation, the 01 Prius is taking an ~ $7K hit over 2 years. A comparably equipped 01 Corolla LE’s depreciation is more in the neighborhood of $4K. I don’t know exactly what your own HCH will be worth but I will err to the side of a non-Hybrid given the high initial pricing, low residuals, and battery replacement let alone maintenance according to Edmunds, KBB, and the Black Book over at Cars.com.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___Waynegerdes@earthlink.net |
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| Captain MDX |
| Civic coupe. More pics click here |
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