| vicpai |
I recently posted a reply on www.acura-tl.com, which ended up being a long post comparing some of the other "good" FACTORY and AFTERMARKET nav systems and highlighting their shortcomings/flaws when compared to the Honda/Acura Nav system, which IMHO is THE PERFECTIONIST'S DREAM and is FLAWLESS. After extensive testing I have challenged it on every single front and it hasn't failed me!!
So, here's a copy of the post (and link). This will also help those for whom the Navigation system is a very important part of the purchase decision (as it was for me)!
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showt...?threadid=61823
TRANSCRIPT:
Basically like I've said time and again.....over and over and over, on different forums, IF IT'S NOT A HONDA NAVIGATION SYSTEM, THEN IT'S NOT A NAVIGATION SYSTEM, PERIOD!!.........for the benefit of all of you ;) , I have found this out the HARD WAY (after wasting a LOT of hard-earned dollars :( )
Overall here's how the DVD Nav systems compare:
Alpine (aftermarket) NVE-N852A : 2nd after Acura system
The 3 biggest concerns used to be the VERY LIMITED WAYS OF SEARCHING THE POINT-OF-INTEREST DATABASE (For example: No distance sort for place names), the VERY LIMITED NUMBER OF CATEGORIES and the lack of a TOUCHSCREEN. Alpine must have heard my rants all over the place. They finally fixed the first issue in their latest release (NVD-A211), making it a close second to the Acura system. However, the other 2 unresolved issues, especially the lack of a Touchscreen, makes it very cumbersome to use with the provided remote control, not to mention that the remote control gets lost all the time when you need it most :rolleyes:
The Toyota/Lexus FACTORY DVD Nav systems and the Kenwood KNA-DV2100 AFTERMARKET (both exactly the same made by Denso Corp.) come in at a DISTANT third. I've found several flaws ranging from inaccuracies in both the mapping and POI databases to the unit giving confusing directions at times (graphic on the screen shows one thing and the voice says something else). However the MAJOR SHORTCOMINGS are:
IF YOUR DESTINATION HAPPENS TO BE IN A "NON-VERIFIED" AREA (Non NAVTECH), the Nav system will abruptly leave you stranded without turn-by-turn guidance, when you leave the "VERIFIED" (NAVTECH) portion of the route. You then have to manually navigate, looking at the screen and icon.
VERY VERY SMALL POI DATABASE (you virtually cannot find anything you're looking for. Businesses such as Walmart, Home Depot, Best Buy, Circuit City, Walgreens, Kinkos etc. are non-existent :rolleyes: )
NO REVERSE PHONE NUMBER SEARCH FOR POIs
CANNOT OPERATE SYSTEM WHILE VEHICLE IS MOVING (even by a passenger :rolleyes: )
VERY LIMITED NUMBER OF CATEGORIES FOR POIs
and most important of all:
"INPUT DESTINATION BY INTERSECTION" FEATURE IS TOTALLY USELESS. A lot of times you may not know an exact address, but you know the nearest cross streets. For example, they tell you to meet them at Hollywood and Vine. There is A VERY GOOD CHANCE that you don't know if it's Hollywood "street" or "boulevard" or "way" or "place" or "road" etc. etc. etc. and same thing for Vine. Besides this you have to know if it's "North" hollywood boulevard and "South" Vine street, or "East" hollywood "boulevard" and "West Vine "street". What I'm trying to say is that there's an INFINITE number of combinations for the PREFIX and SUFFIX that it makes it impossible to go through all of them to find the right one. The Acura and Alpine systems have a very efficient "filtering" method. All you need to input is "Hollywood and Vine" and it will filter the possible combinations and if there are multiple locations it will ask you to select the correct city in THAT STATE. For example I know that the one I was looking for was in Hollywood, CA. BTW, the correct one was Hollywood BLVD. and Vine STREET. ;) .....another example: an intersection close to my house which I know only as being PACIFIC COAST HWY and AVALON is actually EAST PACIFIC COAST HWY and NORTH AVALON BLVD ......it took me a whopping 25 minutes to find this combination on the Lexus!! On my MDX Nav, I just had to input PACIFIC COAST and AVALON and it instantly found it for me! This also sometimes affect the ability to input an address: For example, someone gave me their address as 16913 Yukon Street, Hawthorne, CA. The toyota/lexus unit could not find the address. The correct address happened to be: 16913 SOUTH Yukon AVENUE, which the Acura/Alpine systems found it instantly as you do not have to know if it's north, south, east ,west, avenue, boulevart, street etc. etc.
Listening to all the criticisms Lexus introduced an upgraded Nav systems on the '04 ES330, '04LS430 and '04LX470. I immediately rushed to the dealership to test it out completely, and here's what I found. They STILL HAVEN'T GOT IT RIGHT!!. The "Phone number search" issue has been addressed and the POI database has been increased from 2 million to 5 million (however, a significant number of these POIs are only "searchable" if you know the phone number - what's that all about?? ) ....and it's still way below the 7.7 million POIs for the Acura system and the 11+ million POIs for the Alpine unit. The other issues are still IGNORED.
The Nissan/Infinity Nav systems come in at a DISTANT fourth. While the POI database is decent, the basic route calculating logic is totally flawed. I tried out the one in the FX45, and when I asked it to calculate a route from and address in Los Angeles to one in Denver, CO, it said "cannot calculate the route, address selected is too far, input a closer destination" or something like that!! Isn't that the WHOLE FRIGGIN POINT OF A DVD-BASED Navigation system???? .....and, besides, it's not TOUCHSCREEN. It's operated using buttons. Which stupid person thought of this?? As far as I'm concerned this Nav system is a write off.
As far as the rest of the Nav systems from Mercedes, BMW etc., don't even bother. They are just a TOTAL WASTE OF MONEY!! The BMW Nav system on one occassion showed the vehicle 2 miles from it's actual location in the middle of a lake :rolleyes:
Sorry for the long post, but when it comes to Navigation systems, I'm very passionate and emotional about them and will take any opportunity to show HONDA/ACURA's extreme superiority over all of them. While, initially they may not look that different (as I wrongly assumed), after living with them and using them on a regular basis, it becomes very apparent that they are not all created alike!!
After all I bought my MDX over the 4Runner Limited I REALLY wanted primarily for the Acura Navigation System. That, in itself, speaks VOLUMES for the Acura Nav system!! :29: |
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| jimfr |
Thanks for the info!!!
I agree that the MDX system is the best I've seen yet.
The Nav System in my BMW is pretty lame in comparison, not in the way that you cited, but in the lack of touchscreen (you turn a knob to "type") and, more importantly, in the fact that you need to know in what city a POI is in order to search for it.
The Acura Nav System, once I learned how to search (always search by Keyword), is just fabulous.
Nonetheless, there are a couple of things I would improve:
1). In the Garmin StreetPilot, if you see a lake or a park on the map, and you move the cursor over the POI, it tells you what it is. The Acura, as far as I can tell, does not do this (it only identifies roads/addresses when you move the cursor and click).
2). I'd love to be able to tell the system that there is only one Personal Address book, which would eliminate one step in accessing the address book.
3). It would be nice if you could specify one default search, such as "By Keyword - by Distance." That's the search I use almost all the time, and there are a few steps involved in doing it (this would be nicest when, ahem, the vehicle is moving).
4). Trainable voice and "globalization" of voice commands. 'Nuff said, but the voice recognition just doesn't like my voice or my Midwest accent. Since the recognition is so spotty, why not make all commands accessible regardless of the screen you are on?
5). One button mute. Mute is something that I do all the time. There are too many steps involved in muting and unmuting (the BMW system has one button mute).
6). Next street indication. With the Garmin Streetpilot, when you are driving around in Map Mode (i.e. not following a route), the next street you will cross is indicated at the top of the screen. This is VERY handy.
As you can see, I had to stretch a bit to come up with these, as the Acura system is truly a WONDERFUL system. It is so wonderful, that unless other automakers catch up, this will be one of the prime influencing factors in my annual/semi-annual car purchase decision.
P.S. I recently drove a friend's Lexus LS430 (2003) on a trip and got to try out the Nav system. It is quite inferior to the Acura System; it's weird when you can see 4 gas stations, but the Nav System tells you there is only one, also, at least 3 times, the Lexus Nav system plotted circular routes that involved long detours. |
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| Maik |
At least as far as my 2002 system is concerned, it may well have a gazillion points of interest all accross the country (which are of little or no value to me), and I will say that it is very simple to use (very intuative), but the heart of the system, the routing logic absolutely sucks. Time and again it will route rediculious ways to get somewhere. It has even had me take one highway south, only to get off and go north, right past where I was! It will consistantly take the long way and this happens no matter what the settings, ie highway, no highway, fastest route, etc.
Where I find it to be most useful is in zeroing in on my destination once I have gotten close, as well as simply using the "map" to find my own route, while en route.
As far as your assertion that the BMW system is a waste, I totally disagree. Its primary features are quite similar to the Acura one, but its graphics make the MDX system look horrible. Since it is not touch screen, it is not as convenient to operate. One function that I like about the BMW system is its ability to tell you your exact location in terms not just of street, but town as well. It does, however, have similar poor routing logic. |
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| jimfr |
The 2003 system will only give you such a circuitous route rarely. When it does, it's pretty easy to look at the route map and see what's going on. Other than that, the routes it generates are great, and I've even learned a couple of faster ways to get places I normally go.
When people who don't have Navs ask me if they are perfect, I tell them "nav systems will always get you where you want to go, but they may not get you there via the best route."
As for the BMW system, I didn't say it was a waste, just that it is nowhere near as good as the Acura system, especially when it comes to actually finding a POI to which you wish to go, for example, in the SF Bay Area, if I want to go to Monterey Peninsula CC, I have to know that it's in the town of Pebble Beach, or I can't find the course at all. On both the Acura and Garmin systems, MPCC is easy to find.
The BMW screen is much smaller and to my eye, the graphics look worse than the 2003 Acura system's graphics. I've not used the 2002 Acura system, so this may account for some of the difference. |
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| mcclendons |
One note on the BMW system, they changed to a DVD based in '03 (I believe, maybe late 02). I have the 03 version, and as with many technologies, it is very strong in some aspects, weak in others.
It is MUCH faster than my 01 Acura, and seemed much faster than the 03 Acura I played with briefly. I am not talking about a "little", I mean ALLOT faster. The displays are a wash. Both systems have some errors in them, although they tend to be in different locations.
The BMW has a nice integration feature, when you get under 1/4 mile to a turn the distance is displayed on the screen AND on a small LED display in the Speedo console. Nice feature
The cons of the BMW are the touch screen (more a "wow" feature than a big deal IMO), and the POI search mentioned. The BMWs is a pain.
To me, neither system is perfect, and they each have advantages. If I had to rate one better than the other, the BMW wins on one fact. BMW supports their product (read they update the database). Acura has failed here, and to give them much praise endorses their lack of customer support. |
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| Markedoc |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
At least as far as my 2002 system is concerned, it may well have a gazillion points of interest all accross the country (which are of little or no value to me), and I will say that it is very simple to use (very intuative), but the heart of the system, the routing logic absolutely sucks. Time and again it will route rediculious ways to get somewhere. It has even had me take one highway south, only to get off and go north, right past where I was! It will consistantly take the long way and this happens no matter what the settings, ie highway, no highway, fastest route, etc.
I have the same problem, and coincidentally, am also in Mass. Very staraghforward routes on major roads are OFTEN turned into significantly longer routings on small, slow, windy back roads. I'm not talking short cuts - I'm talking much longer routings. I am baffled by this. Why would the system tell you to bypass a major road headed right to your desitation in favor of a small, back road several miles away?
Easy to use - yes, map is handy - yes, but the for the main intended purpose, this system is quite weak.
For this reason and several others, I am strongly considering trying to make an even trade of my 2002 MDX for a 2004 Honda Pilot. |
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| XStatic |
Opportunities for improvement:
1) Allow routing via breadcrumb path, if I drove it I should be able to route via it.
2) Trip computer screen sucks!
3) A lot of the data is very old, need more updates
4) How about a warning indicator if you enter a reduced speed zone and you haven't slowed down
5) How about a cell interface to allow Internet access for messaging, live traffic info, or to look up data address/phone number information not available on DVD
6) Enter and/or Save location by coordinates
7) Make use of PCMCIA slot for transferring data from PC.
Use PC to create a trip, take the card to the car and load the trip!
Sync address book/calendar with outlook, lots of possibilities.
8) Calendar is useless, if I put in an appointment it should pop up a reminder or what is the point?
Lots more, decent system but it certainly is not ideal! |
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| MaDX |
I, too, am less than impressed with the Acura Navi's routing. For me, this is the most important aspect of a navigation system. It seems that about half the time, it gives absurd routes. I have used Garmin Street Pilot III for about a year before purchasing my 03 MDX with Navi, , and now a Garmin Ique3600, I don't remember either of them ever giving me a ridiculous route. On a number of occasions, I put the Ique head-to-head with my '03 Acura Navi. Ique's routes were better most of the time when the two systems gave different routes. If you want more of my initial evaluation of the Ique 3600, see my post in the following thread.
http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/show...&threadid=13634 |
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| jimfr |
There seem to be a lot of unhappy Nav customers in the Boston area. I wonder if the mapping for Boston is not up to snuff.
I've owned a StreetPilot III since they came out. I love it...it has so many cool features. I have found that the MDX's routes are almost always the same or better than the SPIII's. Additionally, the MDX does the routing so MUCH faster that it is far more useful.
Since the MDX (as well as the Nav system in my BMW) calculate the first part of the route, then report back to the user while calculating the rest of the route, I wonder if sometimes they can get into trouble by making some bad decisions initially that can't be corrected. The SPIII waits until it has calculated the entire route before giving the first instruction. Ever since they added VIA points to the SPIII (2.40 and later), the routing is not as good and takes a very long time. |
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| hockeyplayer |
I love my nav unit and will never own a vehicle without a navigation option. As far as the routing logic, I agree that it can take you a little out of your way sometimes. The main purpose I use the system is to find a place I have never been before. That means that I have no idea if I am going the best route or not. I personally don't care if there is a route that will save 3 minutes as long as I arrive at the destination I am looking for. I just "ignore" the nav unit if it wants to send me somewhere I know will take longer. It will catch on to your intentions and recalculate a path similar to your thinking. People......there are tons of ways to get from A - B. I am sure that you will appreciate your nav unit more when you enter a city that you have never been but feel confident knowing you will always have an idea of your surroundings by simply looking at the dash. I do have one question regarding "verified" and "non-verified" areas. Vicpai had mentioned that the Lexus unit "drops" you off at the verified boundary and you have to find your way via the screen from there. How is this achieved with the 03 nav?? Do you receive turn by turn instructions 100% of the time. 01/02 nav units are soon to have both areas so I am curious what to look forward to. To those on the fence about getting the navigation option with regards to the MDX.....FOR PETE"S SAKE DO IT IF YOU CAN AFFORD IT SO YOU DO NOT HAVE TO START ANOTHER THREAD ASKING IF ONE COULD RETROFIT THE NAVIGATION UNIT INTO A PREMIUM OR TOURING W/O NAV. :cool:
PS. this is my 1000th post......damn how time flies....had a blast with you guys over the past year....:4: |
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| Dale MDX |
| I saw the NAV unit in the new Mazda RX-8 get some high praise recently, such as clearly better than anybody elses, and the way everybody else should do it, by a car reviewer. I think it was a reviewer for USA Today. (Herrod? Not that I trust all of his opinions). |
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| vicpai |
quote:
Originally posted by hockeyplayer
..........I do have one question regarding "verified" and "non-verified" areas. Vicpai had mentioned that the Lexus unit "drops" you off at the verified boundary and you have to find your way via the screen from there. How is this achieved with the 03 nav?? Do you receive turn by turn instructions 100% of the time. 01/02 nav units are soon to have both areas so I am curious what to look forward to.............
......so long post, beware! ;)
To fully understand the way all of this works, a little history is in order:
Firstly,NAVTECH is the provider of digital maps to most Navigation systems used worldwide, and is the only provider of these digital maps for North America. Basically, NAVTECH is the only company that has done this "kind of mapping" (digital) that Navigation Systems need for giving you TURN-BY-TURN, DOOR-TO-DOOR GUIDANCE.
I don't know why they're called "digital" maps, but what that means is that, in these maps streets are not just represented as "lines", but each road segment has other info attached to it such as the "road geometry", "speed limits", "one-way streets", "time restrictions", "No U-turn" etc. etc. etc. (there can be as many as 130+ of these attributes). So, basically these roads are ACTUALLY DRIVEN AND THEN STUDIED by the field staff of NAVTECH, as opposed to regular public source maps (such as Rand McNally) which are just obtained from satellite images and other forms of cartography.
However, because this is such an enormous (and expensive) task (physically driving all of the 5 million miles of roadway in the US), NAVTECH has only completed digital street-level mapping of all the METRO AREAS and their surroundings as well as all the VERY MAJOR STREETS/HIGHWAYS passing through all towns, plus all the interstates, which I believe constitutes close to 2 million miles of roadway. What boggles the mind, however, is the hap-hazard way NAVTECH has gone about doing it's mapping. For example some "large-ish" cities have NOT been mapped, yet some smaller ones have been mapped. Case in point: Billings, MT (population about 120,000) is larger than Fargo, ND (pop. about 70,000). Fargo and it's surroundings are mapped, while there is no mapping done for the whole state of Montana. Similarly, Montgomery, AL metro area with over 350,000+ people which is MUCH MUCH larger than the Fargo metro area, is not yet DIGITALLY mapped :confused: It is unclear at this point if NAVTECH even intends to digitally map the rest of the U.S. (mostly rural and smaller towns), as they have issued conflicting statements on this issue.
Now that we have that explained, here is the timeline of what transpired.
Back in Feb 2000, when I bought my 2000TL/NAVI, the Acura TL was the only, and first vehicle in the U.S. with a DVD-Based Navigation system. The system used the NAVTECH database on one DVD to cover the entire U.S., but if your destination address happened to be in an area not digitally mapped by NAVTECH (say on a small street in Grand Forks, ND) you were simply out of luck.
Then a year later, Lexus (actually made by Denso Corp.) came up with an ingenious idea. They claimed to have successfully merged the NAVTECH database with a database containing REGULAR mapping (sourced from Geographic Data Technologies- GDT) to give a COMPLETE FOOTPRINT of the U.S. However there was a catch: Only the NAVTECH mapped portions would provide TURN-BY-TURN VOICE GUIDANCE AS WELL AS THE HIGHLIGHTED ROUTE ON THE SCREEN. Once you left the NAVTECH portions of the route, you would then have to manually/visually follow the little icon on the screen along the lines represented as streets to your destination (represented by a checkered flag). Unfortunately this has not beem implemented very well in practice. First off, if your journey begins in a NAVTECH area and then the destination ends up being in a NON-NAVTECH area, the Nav system will not WARN YOU of this BEFORE starting your journey, and hence my reference to "abruptly leaves you stranded". Secondly, once you leave the NAVTECH area, a little arrow in the corner of the screen points in the GENERAL direction of your destination to help you navigate the streets manually. While this is O.K. if you have a perfectly SQUARE GRID of streets without dead ends, it can get a little tricky if the streets leading to your destination are curvy/winding streets that take a circuitous route. Basically, you will have to ZOOM IN and ZOOM OUT a few times to ACTUALLY SEE WHERE YOU NEED TO BE GOING.
Then a year later, to be competitive, NAVTECH announced that it will internally merge it's own database with regular mapping to provide Nav system clients a complete footprint of the U.S. on one single platform, until they complete their digital mapping. THAT'S WHAT YOU SEE IN THE NEW 2ND-GENERATION HONDA NAVIGATION SYSTEM (AND HOPEFULLY IN THE UPDATES FOR THE 1st GEN. UNITS)
Honda took this "NAVTECH-merged" database and perfected it over the Lexus system (beat them at their own game). While Lexus never really explained (in it's owners manual or otherwise) the differences in these two mapping coverages, Honda has done an awesome job perfecting and explaining it. HONDA calls them "VERIFIED" and "UNVERIFIED" areas for simplicity. "VERIFIED" being the digital NAVTECH MAPPING and "UNVERIFIED" being the regular merged cartography which CANNOT provide TURN-BY-TURN GUIDANCE.
This has also been implemented brilliantly. Firstly, the HONDA system will warn you before starting your journey, if a portion of the route happens to be in an "UNVERIFIED" area, so that you can review and plan the entire route accordingly. Secondly, and MORE IMPORTANTLY, once you leave the "VERIFIED" portion of the journey, a blue dotted highlighted straight line called the "VECTOR LINE" attaches to your vehicle (the Acura icon on the screen) at one end and to the destination at the other end (imagine it as a piece of stretched string that moves along with the icon on the screen, but is fixed to the destination at the other end). So, even if you are at maximum ZOOM IN and cannot physically see the destination on the screen, you can follow the streets, all the while knowing in which direction your destination is. This vector line is a far better system than that little arrow found in the corner of the Lexus system.
Strangely and very surprisingly, Alpine, with it's AFTERMARKET NAV (NVE-N852A) has chosen to do it like the Lexus system (with the little arrow in the corner) in their latest DVD update release (NVD-A211)
Hope this sheds some light on the whole issue! |
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| hockeyplayer |
| Vicpai...Thank you very much for the info about the verified and unverified areas. I am sure that the 01/02 users found your post as informative as I did. I appreciate the time spent writing the post(unless you type 200 word per minute:) ) I have tried other systems as well, although not as extensively as yourself, and did conclude that Honda/Acura had the market to this point. :) Thanks again.....I/we appreciate it. |
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| mogur |
Not quite true... Delorme has provided navigation products such as Street Atlas for years that encompass the entire USA and provide turn-by-turn and door-to-door guidance, as well as POIs. I've used it on my laptop and PDA for many years with their little companion GPS and it works very well, has complete coverage of the USA, and is far more up to date than most nav system databases. They create the databases internally but I don't know the source(s) of their data.
Tom
quote:
NAVTECH is the provider of digital maps to most Navigation systems used worldwide, and is the only provider of these digital maps for North America. Basically, NAVTECH is the only company that has done this "kind of mapping" (digital) that Navigation Systems need for giving you TURN-BY-TURN, DOOR-TO-DOOR GUIDANCE.
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| hockeyplayer |
A website for anyone interested in learning more about mapping and stuff
click here |
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| texrb |
quote:
Originally posted by vicpai
The Toyota/Lexus FACTORY DVD Nav systems and the Kenwood KNA-DV2100 AFTERMARKET (both exactly the same made by Denso Corp.) ....................MAJOR SHORTCOMINGS are:...............
CANNOT OPERATE SYSTEM WHILE VEHICLE IS MOVING (even by a passenger :rolleyes: )
Vicpai - I need to correct you on the point above. the only thing you can't do while the vehicle isn't in park is enter a new destination address. You (or a passenger) can access POIs or previous destinations already in the system while driving.
I have both the 2004 Lexus & '01 MDX Nav systems & I agree that the MDX system is better for many reasons you stated above. I DO like the Lexus voice better though :4: |
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| BarryH |
| Oops. Posted twice. See below. |
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| BarryH |
Vic,
I promised this to you a while ago. Your claim of vast superiority spurred me on. ;) IMHO, Acura beats Volvo in one category as I've outlined below in excrutiating detail. Enjoy and I'll be happy to take questions as, let's face it, there aren't too many Volvo Navi users out there.
OK, many of you have asked for more information about the Volvo Navigation System (VNS). Consider this your guided tour. My two recent Acura’s (MDX and TL-S) both had Navi, so I’m no neophyte. I don’t know much about the Nissan and Lexus systems to be able to draw a comparison. I do know that the Acura system is one of the highest rated by the car rags and users of the system. This is my comparison of the two systems. Note that Acura introduced a new system both with and without voice command this year. My understanding is that it is a freshening of the old system not a complete rewrite. My comparison is to the Acura first-generation DVD system (’00-03)
Speed
VNS by a long shot. It calculates about five times faster than the Acura system and recalculates even faster than that if you accidentally blow past a guidance instruction. The Acura system used to drive me nuts because if you missed a guidance direction it went in to an endless loop of recalculation as the more you drove, the more it needed to recalculate. I don’t know whether it’s software or processor but VNS leaves Acura in the dust.
Data Entry
This is what I thought would turn me against VNS. After using it, I’ve grown to love it. The LCD is at eye level and canted in toward the driver so there’s never any glare – even in the brightest sunlight. In the TL-S, I could use the Navi or the sunroof but never both because of the glare. The VNS joystick took some getting used to, but now I’m lightning fast. The fact that the LCD is eye level and the joystick is on the steering wheel makes using VNS while driving safe and practical. Both systems work similarly in that as you begin entering text, letters or numbers that aren’t applicable are grayed out. Both systems also provide a list of possible names or locations that narrows as you enter more characters so you never have to type out a full name. Entering data is easier with the Acura touch screen but VNS is faster in the long run because, if you’re driving, you have to pause to bounce your eyes back and forth between the road and the Navi as you enter information in the Acura system. The IR remote control let’s anyone in the car enter information in VNS.
Interface
The cascading menus in VNS are easier to use then having to make a selection in the Acura system and wait for the next page of options to appear. Backing out of a selection is easier also because you know at all times where in the menu hierarchy you came from to get to the screen you’re currently viewing.
Mapping
VNS allows you to have the same area appear in split screen on the display at two different scales. This is a great feature, especially if you’re in an area you’re not familiar with. I put the left side at a higher level than the right so I can see an overview while still looking at the low-level detail on the right screen.
Navigation Instructions
An unbelievable feature is the interactive intersection guidance in VNS. It actually provides a detailed map specific to the intersection you need to take an action at with the car’s position interactively plotted as you go through the intersection. The Acura system uses a series of canned intersections that it tries to line up as closely as possible with the intersection you’re actually navigating. Some of its approximations weren’t very accurate.
The timing and detail of the instructions, both on the map and verbally, seem to be better with VNS. I used to constantly over or undershoot directions with the Acura system and haven’t had it happen once with VNS.
Itinerary Creation and Manipulation
The Acura “today’s destinations” feature used to drive me nuts. It allowed you to load a limited number of stops (5?), tried to figure out the most efficient travel order, but didn’t allow you to select the order yourself. You could pick a first destination, but never pre-load an entire itinerary in the order you wanted to travel. VNS lets you enter 10 destinations and re-order them as you see fit prior to calculating the route. Acura looked at each leg of a trip as point-to-point, where VNS calculates the whole journey as a single trip with multiple stops which it calls “way points”. The entire trip and all the way points are shown on the map as you start off.
Another absolutely huge VNS advantage is the ability to manipulate a trip in progress. The Acura Navi could only do one thing at a time. If you left guidance to look at other possible destinations it wiped out what it was currently doing and you had to restart navigation from wherever the cars then current position was. With VNS, you can actually add, change, or delete destinations on the current route without losing navigation. For example if you’re on a highway and want to know where the rest stops are 20 miles ahead, you simply pull up the destination menu, choose find facilities on current route, map scroll ahead, and enter. VNS tells you the distance and direction from the point on the route of the facility you’re searching for. When you select it, it adds it to the destinations menu in the correct order. The ability to do two things at once is a killer feature. I’m assuming it must be processor, not software driven.
Points of Interest
Acura wins – sort of. VNS has a fairly robust list of searchable facilities. However, if what you want isn’t on the list you’re screwed. For example, car wash isn’t one of the VNS categories. While Acura had more POI’s, how you used them was a pain in the ass. For example, entering Walmart would show Walmart’s all over the country. Names were also sometimes confused by the NavTech data entry people so you’d get nothing if it was keyed in as Wal Mart or Wal-Mart. The find destination by phone number was a cool feature in the Acura system but it was pretty hit and miss. I’d say you’d have a fifty/fifty shot of finding a major POI by phone number. VNS covers about 80% of what I’m looking for categorically pretty well, but Acura’s flexibility allows you to find a greater variety of POI’s.
Map and Database Currency
VNS hands down. By staying out of the middle, Volvo allows VNS users to purchase updates directly from NavTech. NavTech releases major and minor upgrades multiple times throughout the year. The most current Acura database available is two years old.
Miscellaneous
The VNS detour feature allows you to select the duration of a detour which is quite handy. There’s a big difference between a one block detour due to construction and a highway being closed down because of a major accident.
VNS allows you to customize what does and doesn’t appear on the map screen which is kind of nice. It also shows all of your stored locations as icons on the map when in range.
Because you can set a large number of destinations and manipulate them mid-trip, VNS is much more like a travel planner than the Acura system.
The maps in the Acura system are “prettier” than VNS but no more functional.
Summary
IMHO, VNS beats Acura in every category except POI. But, the interactive detailed intersection navigation and ability to manipulate trips before and after they’ve begun more than offset the advantage. As I said before, I haven’t played with the Gen-Two Acura Navi so don’t know if anything’s materially changed with regards to functionality. Let’s face it, each year Navi is going to get cheaper and more sophisticated. For now, I’m happy.
See the pictorial overview in the next post :) |
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| BarryH |
Pictorial Overview of Volvo's Navi
The ubiquitous “cover our butt” disclaimer
The primary menu
The split-screen map display with selectable scales for each view
The destination menu – facilities is the VNS term for points of interest. You can store 100 destinations in the system and, thank god, they’re not password protected which was incredibly annoying in the Acura system.
The “enter by address” screen. Pretty similar to Acura’s.
The “enter by facility” screen. After you select a category, it give you additional options such as “Italian” for restaurant type.
The “facilities” menu. There are a couple of different ways to search by facility.
“Map scroll” showing current position
How you set the scale for the map views
The map display configuration menu |
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| BarryH |
Pictorial Overview of Volvo's Navi (Continued)
The start of a trip. The greenish flag is the starting point. The red arrow is the car and the direction it’s facing.
The “itinerary builder” with the menu options available. The checkered flag is the last stop, way points are shown with a white flag.
The user definable detour function
A “guidance instruction”. Note the incredible detail of the intersection on the left screen. One way streets are shown as well as the car’s progress through the intersection. The little diamond on the right screen indicates where an action is required.
Mid-trip shown at different scales. The next instruction and distance ahead are shown on the top header and current location on the bottom. Distance and miles to destination are shown in the upper right.
Another shot of a detailed guidance instruction.
Same shot with the car appearing in the instruction.
Another guidance instruction.
With car.
Another mid-trip.
Single map view.
Another guidance instruction.
Turn-by-turn trip view with map.
Highlighting destination in scroll view to scan for facilities to add to the trip.
System customization menu.
The inverted screen for bright daylight or to create less cabin light when driving at night.
The IR remote for passengers. Note the opulent Atacama aniline leather used as background. |
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| vicpai |
quote:
Originally posted by BarryH
OK, many of you have asked for more information about the Volvo Navigation System (VNS). Consider this your guided tour. My two recent Acura’s (MDX and TL-S) both had Navi, so I’m no neophyte. I don’t know much about the Nissan and Lexus systems to be able to draw a comparison. I do know that the Acura system is one of the highest rated by the car rags and users of the system. This is my comparison of the two systems. Note that Acura introduced a new system both with and without voice command this year. My understanding is that it is a freshening of the old system not a complete rewrite. My comparison is to the Acura first-generation DVD system (’00-03)
Barry, first off, THANKS for your in depth comparison!
I'd like to point out a few things! The '03 Acura Nav is not just a freshening. The difference is like DAY and NIGHT! I, too, was an owner of a 2000TL/NAVI which I bought in Feb '00......and I agree with you that it was SLOW AS MOLASSES. Actually I should clarify this further. Initially it was slow, but not that slow. However, when Acura brought out the update (version 2.05 I think) it became REALLLY slow, which was a pain in the a$$, especially during recalculation. The '03 which features the second generation Nav system is 4 to 5 times faster than the 1st gen. So I would assume that it's equal in this respect to the Volvo system. Also, FYI, the NEW Nav system features voice recognition in all it's applications: '03/'04 Accord, '03/'04 MDX, '04TSX, '04RL and the new '04TL. The only difference being the # of voice commands recognized (130 in '03 MDX, 180 in the Accord and TSX, 217 in the '04 MDX and a whopping 293 in the '04TL). BTW, this new '04 TL is the MOST STATE-OF-THE-ART car in the entire Honda/Acura lineup with the Bluetooth integrated Nav system and that DELICIOUS Panasonic/Elliot Scheiner DVD-Audio/DTS 5.1 surround-sound audio system!! :eek: (ooooohhh, la la la.....I want this car sooooooo bad :( .....270bhp, acoustic windshield, 3-D solar sensing climate control and the list goes on......Sorry, I got a little carried away! )
quote:
Data Entry
This is what I thought would turn me against VNS. After using it, I’ve grown to love it. The LCD is at eye level and canted in toward the driver so there’s never any glare – even in the brightest sunlight. In the TL-S, I could use the Navi or the sunroof but never both because of the glare. The VNS joystick took some getting used to, but now I’m lightning fast. The fact that the LCD is eye level and the joystick is on the steering wheel makes using VNS while driving safe and practical. Both systems work similarly in that as you begin entering text, letters or numbers that aren’t applicable are grayed out. Both systems also provide a list of possible names or locations that narrows as you enter more characters so you never have to type out a full name. Entering data is easier with the Acura touch screen but VNS is faster in the long run because, if you’re driving, you have to pause to bounce your eyes back and forth between the road and the Navi as you enter information in the Acura system. The IR remote control let’s anyone in the car enter information in VNS.
I've always preferred a touch screen system. After my TL got stolen :( (9 months after owning it) I went through 3 different cars and 2 Aftermarket Nav systems. The Alpine NVE-N851A and Kenwood KNA-DV2100. I could never get used to the remote control as I kept losing it in the car and while I got much faster using it after a while, I could never match the touchscreen speed. That's the reason I sold it off on ebay and then got me the Kenwood, which was touchscreen.
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Interface
The cascading menus in VNS are easier to use then having to make a selection in the Acura system and wait for the next page of options to appear. Backing out of a selection is easier also because you know at all times where in the menu hierarchy you came from to get to the screen you’re currently viewing.
I can see that this would probably be an advantage compared to the Acura system
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Mapping
VNS allows you to have the same area appear in split screen on the display at two different scales. This is a great feature, especially if you’re in an area you’re not familiar with. I put the left side at a higher level than the right so I can see an overview while still looking at the low-level detail on the right screen.
How about the other aspects of the mapping database?? Is there complete coverage of the U.S, rural and metro areas??
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Points of Interest
Acura wins – sort of. VNS has a fairly robust list of searchable facilities. However, if what you want isn’t on the list you’re screwed. For example, car wash isn’t one of the VNS categories. While Acura had more POI’s, how you used them was a pain in the ass. For example, entering Walmart would show Walmart’s all over the country. Names were also sometimes confused by the NavTech data entry people so you’d get nothing if it was keyed in as Wal Mart or Wal-Mart. The find destination by phone number was a cool feature in the Acura system but it was pretty hit and miss. I’d say you’d have a fifty/fifty shot of finding a major POI by phone number. VNS covers about 80% of what I’m looking for categorically pretty well, but Acura’s flexibility allows you to find a greater variety of POI’s.
The POI database and the way it's organized and the countless different ways to search this comprehensive database has been the Acura Nav systems strongest plus. I agree that they could have done a better job organizing the businesses together (for example for the various locations of McDonalds. Some locations might be listed under "EATING PLACES" and others under "RESTAURANT"). However, a determined person will eventually find what they're looking for. Also keep in mind that the NEW Nav system adds several more ways to access the POI database (keyword search, keyword category etc. etc.).....it's very much enhanced!!
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Map and Database Currency
VNS hands down. By staying out of the middle, Volvo allows VNS users to purchase updates directly from NavTech. NavTech releases major and minor upgrades multiple times throughout the year. The most current Acura database available is two years old.
This is one area that Acura has really failed it's customers :28:
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Miscellaneous
The VNS detour feature allows you to select the duration of a detour which is quite handy. There’s a big difference between a one block detour due to construction and a highway being closed down because of a major accident.
VNS allows you to customize what does and doesn’t appear on the map screen which is kind of nice. It also shows all of your stored locations as icons on the map when in range.
Because you can set a large number of destinations and manipulate them mid-trip, VNS is much more like a travel planner than the Acura system.
The maps in the Acura system are “prettier” than VNS but no more functional.
A number of similar features have been added or enhanced to the 2nd generation Acura Nav system.
quote:
Summary
IMHO, VNS beats Acura in every category except POI. But, the interactive detailed intersection navigation and ability to manipulate trips before and after they’ve begun more than offset the advantage. As I said before, I haven’t played with the Gen-Two Acura Navi so don’t know if anything’s materially changed with regards to functionality. Let’s face it, each year Navi is going to get cheaper and more sophisticated. For now, I’m happy.
Like I said earlier, the gen-2 Acura Nav system is a GIANT LEAP over the 1st generation. Try it out sometime. You'll be pleasantly suprised!! :)
Once again, thanks for the comparison! |
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| vicpai |
| .......but the quality of leather sure looks VASTLY SUPERIOR to that of Acura's "quasi leather" ;) |
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| vicpai |
quote:
Originally posted by texrb
Vicpai - I need to correct you on the point above. the only thing you can't do while the vehicle isn't in park is enter a new destination address. You (or a passenger) can access POIs or previous destinations already in the system while driving.
I have both the 2004 Lexus & '01 MDX Nav systems & I agree that the MDX system is better for many reasons you stated above. I DO like the Lexus voice better though :4:
.....Didn't they change that somewhere along the way??
A friend of mine who owns an '03 ES300 told me that he could operate some of the features while driving, but I didn't exactly know which ones. |
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| texrb |
quote:
Originally posted by vicpai
.....Didn't they change that somewhere along the way??
A friend of mine who owns an '03 ES300 told me that he could operate some of the features while driving, but I didn't exactly know which ones.
I don't know about the '02 or earlier Lexus Nav,since I just bought my RX330 ('04) & didn't have NAV in the earlier Lexus. I think the RX has the same system as the '03 ES300 - TheWorm may be able to shed some light since he has an earlier version Lexus Nav.
I am going to buy the upgraded system (saw on clublexus that it's out in a couple weeks) it's supposed to be much better than my '03 system. I am a little pi$$ed that I got an '03 system on an '04 model & will try to get the upgrade for free or at a reduced cost. |
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| Ranger 1 |
| Does anyone know if the '04 NAV has improvements over the '03? I have been waiting to see prior to deciding to purchase the NAV. Also, the LEXUX is supposed to have an upgrade for the '04 GX470. Anyone got information on this one? |
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