| keremoner |
Who in their right minds would put the best defensive SS to play in third? Only if Jeter threw a fit about not switching positions. Sounds like possible trouble brewing down the road.
On a side note, with the addition of Maddux, NY payroll will exceed $200 m. (or 80m more than Sox or almost 3x as much as some teams like the Expos) |
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| Maik |
Yankees will not get Maddux.
This is simply a negotiation ploy by his agent. Maddux wants to stay in NL. |
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| gdot |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
Who in their right minds would put the best defensive SS to play in third? Only if Jeter threw a fit about not switching positions. Sounds like possible trouble brewing down the road.
I agree. It'll be interesting to see how the NY media and fans react after Jeter commits his first few errors. |
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| socalJD |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
Yankees will not get Maddux.
This is simply a negotiation ploy by his agent. Maddux wants to stay in NL.
I disagree, rewind to when the Yanks were courting Clemens - the only thing missing on Maddux's HOF career is the elusive ring(s). Maddux is arguably one of the most successful & durable pitchers of his time, besides the 4 CY awards, the only thing missing is a WS title and perhaps a no-no, I think he'll settle for the title. Besides, Maddux is known as the professor, for the analytical way he approaches his craft, and I'm sure he will school the younger pitchers on the Yanks a thing or 2. Money is not the object, a chance at a few WS titles is the wild card. Maddux in pinstripes is more of an impact than Arod . . . |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by socalJD
I disagree, rewind to when the Yanks were courting Clemens - the only thing missing on Maddux's HOF career is the elusive ring(s). Maddux is arguably one of the most successful & durable pitchers of his time, besides the 4 CY awards, the only thing missing is a WS title and perhaps a no-no, I think he'll settle for the title. Besides, Maddux is known as the professor, for the analytical way he approaches his craft, and I'm sure he will school the younger pitchers on the Yanks a thing or 2. Money is not the object, a chance at a few WS titles is the wild card. Maddux in pinstripes is more of an impact than Arod . . .
Looks like he is heading to the Cubs. |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
Looks like he is heading to the Cubs.
I don't know how he would have done here. New York isn't for everybody. |
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| laborlitigator |
ESPN.com news services
BOSTON -- Red Sox owner John Henry now believes a salary cap could be good for baseball after watching the rival Yankees trade for Alex Rodriguez -- a deal his own franchise could not complete.
Henry said in an e-mail response to reporters early Wednesday morning that he is changing his mind on whether the sport needs a salary cap "to deal with a team that has gone so insanely far beyond the resources of all the other teams."
Yankees' owner George Steinbrenner called Henry's comments "sour grapes."
"We understand John Henry must be embarrassed, frustrated and disappointed by his failure in this transaction," Steinbrenner said in a statement on Wednesday. "Unlike the Yankees, he chose not to go the extra distance for his fans in Boston. It is understandable but wrong that he would try to deflect the accountability for his mistakes onto others and to a system for which he voted in favor. It is time to get on with life and forget the sour grapes." |
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| socalJD |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
Looks like he is heading to the Cubs.
Hmmm, very interesting - going back to where he started. Obviously wasn't for $ as he's getting about 1/2 of what he made with the Braves - clearly under his market value. IMO the Cubs aren't serious contenders for the Title - don't get me wrong, they may very well make the playoffs, but I'm sure the jinx or Baker will find some way to prolong the suffering of loyal Cubs fans. The Yanks were his best shot at a ring . . . |
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| socalJD |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
I don't know how he would have done here. New York isn't for everybody.
LL - looks like it's all a moot point. But if you look at Maddux's career, consistently low ERA, low BBs, high IP, double digit Ws, gold gloves, something tells me he would be allright and even the most rabid NY fan will somehow learn to warm up to him . . . |
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| alwx2 |
the only thing missing on Maddux's HOF career is the elusive ring -- 1995 Atlanta Braves were World Series winners.
What what I've seen Maddux wanted to go the West Coast where he lives, Chicago because of his earlier career was the only other option he considered. He is 11 wins short of the 300 milestone. I was really hoping Atlanta would resign his for one more year so he could get 300 as a BRaves, but Time-Warner said cut the payroll (not everyone is owned by Steinbrenner).
Yes Hicks is sour grapes, but other owners have got be thinking the same, the system will only be out of wack if NY wins the series. The last three years have proven small markets can win, not over the long haul, but they can have thier 15 minutes.
No comments on doping? I'm thinking this will be bigger news and have more impact than A-Rod to NY.
Looks for a number of players to show up at camp smaller and have less productive years. Bonds has got to sweating bullets. |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by alwx2
No comments on doping? I'm thinking this will be bigger news and have more impact than A-Rod to NY.
Looks for a number of players to show up at camp smaller and have less productive years. Bonds has got to sweating bullets.
As with Giambi too. I wonder if they could void his contract if its revealed he used the juice?! |
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| msu79gt82 |
| I think the record book needs a few ********* in it for home runs now that we know that it was chemically enhanced:rolleyes: At least the "juice" Ruth and Marris used was booze - hey maybe they need ****** also:1: |
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| mullysalt |
When I started this thread I never thought the Hot Stove would still be kickin' out the heat this late into February. It looks like all the big names have landed so it's time to turn the stove off and head south for spring training.
Good luck to everyones teams this season and may the Tigers lose less than 100 games.:rolleyes: |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by mullysalt
When I started this thread I never thought the Hot Stove would still be kickin' out the heat this late into February. It looks like all the big names have landed so it's time to turn the stove off and head south for spring training.
Good luck to everyones teams this season and may the Tigers lose less than 100 games.:rolleyes:
Well I certainly do NOT need any more points :rolleyes: ; so I'll leave it up to someone else to start the MLB: Spring Training Thread :cool: :1: |
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| ghm2112 |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/colum...yson&id=1738161
Thanks for this link , msu, here's my favorite:
BEST TRADES:
1. Red Sox get Curt Schilling from Arizona for four eminently replaceable parts, one turkey dinner and a lifetime membership in the Sons of Sam Horn. :21:
Unfortunately, the only mention of my beloved G-men is that they didn't screw up with Tomko like they did with Marvin (I'm Dusty's buddy) Benard.
As the great Homer (Simpson) said: Woohoo!:yesyes:
As for a Spring training thread, shouldn't we at least wait until the day b/f pitchers and catchers report???
Update: oops, they did today (2/19) so I'll start a thread.
-Traveller |
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| socalJD |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
Well I certainly do NOT need any more points :rolleyes: . . .
Geez MsuGt, how about tossing some of your excess points my way - would it help if I told you I am a grad of Memorial High ?!? :4: |
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| msu79gt82 |
| Nolan Ryan rejoins the Astros as a special consultant :1: |
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| msu79gt82 |
I was at my sons High School baseball game last night (he's a sophmore and plays LF) and looked over and saw Roger and Debbie Clemens sitting in the stands. We were playing their oldest son's team (he played 1B).
A clause in the contract allows Roger to leave the team when 1) he is not pitching and 2) his son is playing. He exercised that clause last night. Pretty cool sitting on the same high school bleachers w/ the Clemen's. :cool: Now that I have the High School schedule in my hands and see that they play twice a week through April, Roger will not be missing that many Astros games. |
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| msu79gt82 |
| ESPN Pre-Season Top 10 |
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| msu79gt82 |
| The Bottom 5 :eek: |
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| msu79gt82 |
| All the teams in between |
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| mullysalt |
We had our first real snow today so what better time then to fire up the old hot stove.
As usual the Yanks and Bosox are making the most noise, however, several teams could be waiting in the wings.
Boston has added Wells and want to go after Edgar Rienteria to step in @ SS. The Yankees have added a former Tribe prodigy and 2b Tony Womack.
Where will Pavano land? I think it comes down to Detroit and NYY.
Word around these parts is that the Tigers could target Adrian Beltre next. Dodger fan input on Beltre would be nice, I know he had a big year but I personally don't think he's worth it$$$. If I could play g.m. of the Tigers I would sign Pavano and Derek Lowe and add Steve Kline if he's healthy or two other veteran relievers who can get people out and pitch an inning or two.
What about Carlos Beltran? |
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| laborlitigator |
Mully,
It's nice to see Detroit spending some moola on players. I hope that the Yanks don't sign Beltran but they probably will. Then again, Bernie is off the payroll next year (freeing up 13M) and so is Kevin Brown (another $15).
I just hope they can somehow get out of Giambi's contract. As a Yankee fan, what he and Sheffield did was an embarassment to the team.
As for Pavano, if the Bosox land him, they'll repeat in 05. Hopefully, the Mets somehow land Pedro and then the Yanks land Pavano.
Then somehow work a deal for Randy.
Best case scenario, next years starting five:
Johnson
Mussina
Pavano
Wright
Hernandez
Now, that's not bad. |
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| mullysalt |
LL,
I find it hard to believe that those in power of the NYY didn't see the signs of Giambi's use-age prior to giving him the big contract. It's water under the bridge though, MLB needs a drug policy with some teeth, yesterday. I think that the likes of Bonds and Giambi have stained the game perhaps permanently. If Selig has a set like Stern he would suspend them both for the 05 season. |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by mullysalt
LL,
I find it hard to believe that those in power of the NYY didn't see the signs of Giambi's use-age prior to giving him the big contract. It's water under the bridge though, MLB needs a drug policy with some teeth, yesterday. I think that the likes of Bonds and Giambi have stained the game perhaps permanently. If Selig has a set like Stern he would suspend them both for the 05 season.
Unfortunately, Selig doesn't run baseball, it's Feir and Orza. I agree wholeheartedly with you.
The Yankee brass should have known and this is certainly a black eye on the organization. I find it curious that George hasn't said much. If I were Giambi, I'd look into somehow mending fences with the fans or get out of Dodge. They are going to come down on him so bad. It'll be ugly.
But for the grief Giambi will take, I wonder what the future home run king is in for. It'll probably be worse, but he won't give a damn anyway. |
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| mullysalt |
| Is to see Carlos Beltran wearing the olde english D. |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by mullysalt
Is to see Carlos Beltran wearing the olde english D.
I hope you get him. All I want is Randy. |
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| mullysalt |
| It'll happen and probably would have by now if the Randy wasn't such a red-a$$ and NY's farm system was STOCKED. |
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| laborlitigator |
| Farm System?! What farm system. . . |
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| mullysalt |
| Please Carlos, please................don ye olde english D |
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| mullysalt |
The Big Unit in the Big Apple looks to be a done deal an should be approved now that the worthless Dodgers aren't part of the deal.
P.S.-I'd take Vazquez and the two highly thought of prospects for a 41 year-old pitcher. |
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| socalJD |
Mully, be honest now, if you were the GM of the Dodgers, would you have done that 3 way deal ? Would you have seriously given up Penny, Green, Brazoban & Ishii for Vazquez, Duncan, Navarro & Koplove - not to mention Vazquez is owed $35mm for the next 3 yrs ???
The only reason (thank God) that the deal fell through is Vazquez publicly stated he would not pitch for LA or the White Sox (to whom LA was gonna package Vazquez after the Yanks-AZ trade). Yanks fans need to understand that Vazquez blew up the deal, and it was not Depodesta having cold feet . . . besides, if Vazquez was such a gem, why is George shopping him around ??? |
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| mullysalt |
socal,
If I was GM for the Dodgers, I'd let you and your boys sit in my box.:4: |
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| socalJD |
quote:
Originally posted by mullysalt
socal,
If I was GM for the Dodgers, I'd let you and your boys sit in my box.:4:
Well then, that settles it . . .
Depodesta 'You're FIRED' (in my best Trump impersonation voice)
Mully, welcome to Hollywood . . . :D :D :D |
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| mullysalt |
| Word has it that Mr. I, Dombrowski and Tram all were on hand for Magglio's workout. If he's healthy he should come on down even though a couple more quality relievers would have been nice. |
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| mullysalt |
Yeah Boy! Just think we may actually have a worthy all-star on the team this year and did I mention that the MLB All-Star Game is at Comerica Park?:eek:
What next .500?:p |
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| laborlitigator |
| Your Tigers do look good this year. But how's the starting pitching? |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by mullysalt
Yeah Boy! Just think we may actually have a worthy all-star on the team this year and did I mention that the MLB All-Star Game is at Comerica Park?:eek:
What next .500?:p
Big year for Detroit...2006 Super Bowl is in Detroit as well. |
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| mullysalt |
| Hopefully right on schedule. I still would like a vet other than Jason Johnson otherwise Maroth, Bonderman, Robertson and Ledesma are quality youngsters with experience. The bully still scares me.:eek: |
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| mullysalt |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
Big year for Detroit...2006 Super Bowl is in Detroit as well.
and they complained about Jacksonville........:2: |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by mullysalt
Hopefully right on schedule. I still would like a vet other than Jason Johnson otherwise Maroth, Bonderman, Robertson and Ledesma are quality youngsters with experience. The bully still scares me.:eek:
You've got a very good closer. I'd be worried still about those starters. |
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| mullysalt |
| Defense will be poor to terrible but the hitting should be good and the pitching somewhere in between. If the pitching is closer to the hitting in AL stats then the Tigs have a chance. |
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| laborlitigator |
For a young staff, you only really need one stud pitcher. Perhaps they should have added someone like Radke or Pavano.
Saw you added a middle reliever also. |
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| mullysalt |
This is a move that I really like the more vets down in the bully the better.
Radke was bound to stay with the twins and Pavano was targeted by the King George. Pavano came here and they tried but some poeple(ie-healthy free agents) look for something better.:rolleyes: |
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| laborlitigator |
At least he comes forward and apologizes for it. Unilke his fellow teammate and the Home Run King.
Probably would help if he actively goes out and speaks against steroids. |
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| mullysalt |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
At least he comes forward and apologizes for it. Unilke his fellow teammate and the Home Run King.
Probably would help if he actively goes out and speaks against steroids.
What's wrong with flak seed oil?:2: |
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| laborlitigator |
| Yeah, they shot me up but I didn't know what the stuff was. |
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| nightguy |
OK, seriously. Does Barry Bonds have his own version of the truth or even realize how contradictory his statements are ?
No, there's no correlation between steroids and making contact with the ball. No he hasn't taken steroids. The press has stretched the truth from time to time so it's ok for him to do so. :confused:
I'd really like to thank him for making this is a race issue too. Babe Ruth was white. I guess he conveniently decided he's just chasing Ruth for now and not the black all time leader Hank Aaron. Nevermind that there are still questions about McGwire who was taking some non-banned (I hate the term 'legal' here) substances and possibly other stuff. He's not even playing anymore.
I don't care what this jag does, he will always have an asterisk in my mind just for being stupid. |
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| laborlitigator |
| If you asterisk Bonds, do it to McGuire and Sosa also. |
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| nightguy |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
If you asterisk Bonds, do it to McGuire and Sosa also.
You're right. Didn't mean to leave the impression I wouldn't. |
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| socalJD |
I totally disagree. Didn't we go thru all the backlash & nonsense with the original asterisk on Maris and #61 ? Barry is correct, steroids does not make the avg Joe a superstar baseball player - you must have the fundamental skills & abilities of a MAJOR league ballplayer. Whether Bonds is on the juice or not, does not change the fact that he is a FIRST ballot Hall of Famer. You can argue that he would never have hit 700+ HRs, but as his early career shows, he would still be the only player to go 400-400, the very rare blend of speed and power, along with a career .300+ BA. Look at the Canseco twins, Jose made it as Major leaguer, Ozzie could never make it out of AAA, you can be identical twins, yet one has the skills & the other doesn't - pure & simple.
If Baseball doesn't want Bonds to break Ruth's or Aaron's record, they simply won't pitch to him, he'll get walked or drilled every AB. That's what happened to Maris, Baseball did not want him to break Ruth's record in 154 gms, so when he got close, he didn't get pitched to, then when he broke it in 162 gms, they slapped that ridiculous asterisk in the books - nothing but politics and back room shenanigans.
Baseball will be fine. If steroids is not a good thing, they'll ban it and punish those who continue to use it and eventually it'll all go away. When they said the pitchers were too dominant in the 60's - they lowered the mound. When the batting avgs were getting too high, they gave the pitchers the outside corner and enforced the top of the strike zone. Point is, baseball will self regulate and 'even the playing field' just like they always do. After all it IS America's favorite Pasttime . . . |
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| nightguy |
quote:
Originally posted by socalJD
I totally disagree. Didn't we go thru all the backlash & nonsense with the original asterisk on Maris and #61 ? Barry is correct, steroids does not make the avg Joe a superstar baseball player - you must have the fundamental skills & abilities of a MAJOR league ballplayer. Whether Bonds is on the juice or not, does not change the fact that he is a FIRST ballot Hall of Famer. You can argue that he would never have hit 700+ HRs, but as his early career shows, he would still be the only player to go 400-400, the very rare blend of speed and power, along with a career .300+ BA. Look at the Canseco twins, Jose made it as Major leaguer, Ozzie could never make it out of AAA, you can be identical twins, yet one has the skills & the other doesn't - pure & simple.
If Baseball doesn't want Bonds to break Ruth's or Aaron's record, they simply won't pitch to him, he'll get walked or drilled every AB. That's what happened to Maris, Baseball did not want him to break Ruth's record in 154 gms, so when he got close, he didn't get pitched to, then when he broke it in 162 gms, they slapped that ridiculous asterisk in the books - nothing but politics and back room shenanigans.
Baseball will be fine. If steroids is not a good thing, they'll ban it and punish those who continue to use it and eventually it'll all go away. When they said the pitchers were too dominant in the 60's - they lowered the mound. When the batting avgs were getting too high, they gave the pitchers the outside corner and enforced the top of the strike zone. Point is, baseball will self regulate and 'even the playing field' just like they always do. After all it IS America's favorite Pasttime . . .
The Maris situation was because of a change in the season length by MLB. I think the situation is interesting by today's standards but it was a huge deal back in the day.
Sure steroids don't help you with the god given talent of hand eye coordination but they do give you enhanced strength. Strength means hitting the ball farther and more bat speed. More bat speed means you can watch the pitch a split second longer and judge whether or not you want to hit it. Either way the stuff he was taking is illegal. Not sure what MLB needs to mull over on that.
Strangely enough Bonds' body got bigger and his home run production increased when he got to SF, which coincidentally enough is where his steroids came from. The numbers could be coincidence but they don't lie. Several experts have said that a body like Bonds had last season at the age of 40 is virtually impossible to obtain without the use of some kind of substance.
He's an idiot if he's still on them after this but anyone that can swallow the garbage he unleashed at the press conference is kidding themselves. He's a joke. Don't forget these guys don't live in the real world. He probably doesn't know what the truth is anymore.
I thought he looked kind of fat. If he indeed is off them, and isn't using masking agents, this season will be interesting. |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by socalJD
Barry is correct, steroids does not make the avg Joe a superstar baseball player - you must have the fundamental skills & abilities of a MAJOR league ballplayer. Whether Bonds is on the juice or not, does not change the fact that he is a FIRST ballot Hall of Famer.
Canseco even stated that he wouldn't have been a major leaguer had he not been on the juice. So let's not downplay the advantage he and Barry gained through the use of the stuff.
As for the HOF stuff, no doubt he belongs. However, the issue is whether his march towards HR immortality are valid since it is obvious they were inflated because he cheated. |
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| mullysalt |
Barry is a goofball. That presser the other day was a joke. No Barry 'roids don't help hand eye but when you already have hand eye and then add super jet fuel to your body when that hand eye mixes with 'roids you get 73 homers.
Karma is a *****, Barry. |
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| laborlitigator |
| His best argument is that there was no policy against the stuff. But by attacking the media, he's setting the target sights on himself. |
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| nightguy |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Canseco even stated that he wouldn't have been a major leaguer had he not been on the juice. So let's not downplay the advantage he and Barry gained through the use of the stuff.
That might explain the performance of his twin brother Ozzie. O HR's in 65 major league at bats. I saw him play a minor league game once. It was spooky how much he looked like Jose.
My favorite part of the p.c. was whenBonds said why are you guys here ? Would Bank of America let you in to start asking questions.
Gosh, I thought there was human interest in sports. The answer to the question, "What does it feel like to hit 73 home runs ?" is interesting. Not sure I could say the same for "Hey, what did it feel like to approve that big loan?" Besides, doesn't the team have a media relations department as part of their marketing plan ?
Besides being a liar and a fraud, the guy is an ass. He gets at least 3 lockers (often at road games too) and has a leather recliner in the locker room because the standard stool issued to other players isn't good enough for his pedigreed behind. |
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| socalJD |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Canseco even stated that he wouldn't have been a major leaguer had he not been on the juice . . .
Oh, and you believe every word that comes out of Canseco's mouth ? I'd believe Bonds before I trust anything coming out of Canseco's piehole - he's just trying to sell books and stay in the limelight by outting big names, truly despicable . . . I think Bonds falls in the same category as McGwire, they most likely used some kind of substance that was not illegal at the time, but is obviously frowned upon now . . .
Let's not get carried away with this 'cheating' term - it happens ALL the time, albeit not everyone cheats, but there's always those who push the envelope in every sport - it's just not considered cheating until they get caught ! Have we forgotten Albert Belle & Sosa corked their bats - who knows for how long and how many stats were effected. Phil Neikro & Gaylord Perry were known for loading up the ball (spit balls), they're not banished and both I believe are in the HOF. And this is just the modern era, with media coverage the way it is, who really knows what occurred before the 1960's.
I think everyone gets on Barry's case because he is so media-unfriendly, and he takes every opportunity to rip those who like to rip him. Frankly, he talks the talks, but also walks the walks, in other words he backs up his talking with his performance on the field. Steve Carlton was the same, notorious for hating the media, and a surly SOB on the day he pitched, but history will remember him as a pretty good pitcher . . . |
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| mullysalt |
Take a look at that Texas team in the early-mid 90's. The numbers are scary after Jose and his juice arrived.
Palmerio used to swing the bat like a wet noodle. |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by socalJD
it happens ALL the time. . . who really knows what occurred before the 1960's.
So are you saying Aaron, Mays and Ruth cheated or "pushed" the envelope like Bonds. If either of those 3 had the artificial assistance Bonds had, they'd probably have HR's in the 900's. When a player is chasing one of baseball's immortal records, you kinda want to believe he did it legitimately. That's all I'm saying.
Yeah, he can walk the walk. Albeit, with help of Balco. |
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| nightguy |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
When a player is chasing one of baseball's immortal records, you kinda want to believe he did it legitimately. That's all I'm saying.
For me, it's more than that. I don't necessarily buy into the player as role model idea. But because MLB takes our money, it has a social repsonsiblity to do what it can to curb potentially harmful and possibly illegal performance enhancers. Ever wonder why they along with the player's association has dragged their feet so much on this ? Because they have a huge conflict of interest. Of course they want to see a lot of home runs...it's good for business. And it's good for players who take them, produce more offense and can present themselves as larger and maybe squeezing out players with legitimate, clean talent.
The corked bat controversy really just enhances the anti-Bonds feeling in my gut. It's illegal and maybe the records should show it. With the exception of Sosa, I'm not so sure they've been used by a lot of big players or changed a lot of records. But even if it just increases bat speed, and even if it's just Billy Hatcher, that's enough for me.
To say that steroids don't matter is like saying the NFL has never depended on Vegas. |
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| socalJD |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
So are you saying Aaron, Mays and Ruth cheated or "pushed" the envelope like Bonds. If either of those 3 had the artificial assistance Bonds had, they'd probably have HR's in the 900's. . .
Not sure about Hank or Willie, but Ruth did things to help & harm his performance on the field. It is widely known that Ruth drank & ate like a drunken sailor, if he stayed sober & healthy, who knows what kind of records he would've set, it probably helped that Gehrig was such a boy scout and pushed the Babe to be better. However, Ruth used tree trunks for bats back in the day when there were no requirements for bats as they have now. It is reputed that Ruth regularly swung a 40 inch, 60 ounce bat to club HRs in his prime. Nowadays, the largest bats you'll find in the majors are 35 inch, 36 ounce 'toothpicks' . . . point is, we may never know just how much players really pushed the envelope back in the day when media coverage was more of an art form compared to today. |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by socalJD
Not sure about Hank or Willie, but Ruth did things to help & harm his performance on the field. It is widely known that Ruth drank & ate like a drunken sailor, if he stayed sober & healthy, who knows what kind of records he would've set, it probably helped that Gehrig was such a boy scout and pushed the Babe to be better. However, Ruth used tree trunks for bats back in the day when there were no requirements for bats as they have now. It is reputed that Ruth regularly swung a 40 inch, 60 ounce bat to club HRs in his prime. Nowadays, the largest bats you'll find in the majors are 35 inch, 36 ounce 'toothpicks' . . . point is, we may never know just how much players really pushed the envelope back in the day when media coverage was more of an art form compared to today.
So now you're arguing bat size and steroids should cancel each other out? Yeah, ok.
For a sport that honors its statistical records as much as baseball does, nobody (outside of Northern California and anybody on ESPN) wants the record cheapened that way. For Barry's sake, let's hope he breaks the record in Pac Bell. |
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| socalJD |
LL, not arguing, just stating the facts.
Personally, I don't care if Bonds breaks Ruth's or Aaron's HR records or not, I just know a phenomena when I see it. I was a lil' too young/naive to appreciate Aaron's feat, and never saw Ruth play, but love him or hate him, we'll never see the likes of Barry again. Everyone thought Jr would be the one, but bad luck & health took it's toll - and don't even talk about Arod, pretty boy doesn't have the heart or moxy to challenge the immortals . . .
If Bonds was/is heavily into 'roids, we'll know soon enough when he croaks at a relatively young age due to complications/side affects of being on the juice (ie Caminiti). |
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| nightguy |
| I thought the bat size and whatever harm Ruth inflicted on himself with the sauce or the racks of ribs was legal. Conversely, the stuff Bonds has been taking is illegal. |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by socalJD
If Bonds was/is heavily into 'roids, we'll know soon enough when he croaks at a relatively young age due to complications/side affects of being on the juice (ie Caminiti).
IF?! You're kidding, right. He already admitted to using it. He just didn't "know". He thought it was flaxseed oil @ $15K a pop.
Right. . .
Even my 4 year old gives better excuses.
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c...NGGFA0UDU65.DTL |
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| nightguy |
quote:
Originally posted by socalJD
If Bonds was/is heavily into 'roids, we'll know soon enough when he croaks at a relatively young age due to complications/side affects of being on the juice (ie Caminiti).
Would have been good to see him at the hearings but I guess it just happened to be the day he needed arthroscopic knee surgery. :rolleyes: |
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| mullysalt |
His news conference with his son about how they(the media) finally broke him and he may not be ready until mid-season was pathetic.
I suppose it was the media's fault too that Bonds took a mistress in the first place. He's such a jerkhole. Perhaps Bonds is the most unliked great player of all-time in any sport. Mind you I said GREAT. There are only a few things that Bonds is great at, baseball and being an a-hole. |
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| laborlitigator |
| Makes you wonder if he really believes his bull****. |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by mullysalt
His news conference with his son about how they(the media) finally broke him and he may not be ready until mid-season was pathetic.
I suppose it was the media's fault too that Bonds took a mistress in the first place. He's such a jerkhole. Perhaps Bonds is the most unliked great player of all-time in any sport. Mind you I said GREAT. There are only a few things that Bonds is great at, baseball and being an a-hole.
Could not agree more.
I truly hope he hangs up his cleats for good. I would be willing to bet that this surgery has more to do with allowing enough time for the roids to filter out than his knee.
He is a huge looser in the court of public opinion. |
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| keremoner |
Are the Red Sox nuts paying $51 m just for the right to negotiate with the Japanese pitcher? I understand that they'd get it back if no deal is struck but if they can sign him, say for $15 mill per year for 4 years, wont he cost them $60 mill plus the 51 mill = $111 mill for 4 years???
Is anyone woth this kinda dough?? |
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| laborlitigator |
I don't wanna hear anymore whining about the Yankees overpaying. $25 mil per year. That's little under $1M per start.
But I guess Boston wanted to make a splash. |
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| maddawg995 |
| I think it's a great move on Boston's part and I'm a Yankee fan. They'll surely more than make back that 51mil in Japan through advertisements and merchandise sales. Look at what Hideki did for the Yankees and Ichiro for the Mariners. |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by maddawg995
I think it's a great move on Boston's part and I'm a Yankee fan. They'll surely more than make back that 51mil in Japan through advertisements and merchandise sales. Look at what Hideki did for the Yankees and Ichiro for the Mariners.
Really?! For a $110-120M, I could sign both Zito and Schmidt. Like our 3rd baseman, he'll never live up to that contract. |
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| maddawg995 |
I want him to bomb as much as any other Yankee fan but from a financial perspective, it is a great move. The 51 mil will easily be recovered by selling Red Sox merchandise and TV rights in Japan. Not only does the team win, Boston, the city wins as well. I remember reading somewhere that Hideki Matsui generates something like 500 mil a year in tourism for NYC. I'm not saying he'll do the same thing (to be fair, who wants to visit Boston:D ?), but the buzz he generates will at least attract more media.
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Really?! For a $110-120M, I could sign both Zito and Schmidt. Like our 3rd baseman, he'll never live up to that contract.
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| laborlitigator |
If one can take a lesson from the Yankees, it would be to stay away from big ticket items. If NY is like a fishbowl, Boston media/fans are worse.
It just seems so steep a pricetag for someone who's never thrown a pitch in the major leagues.
In an interview with Bobby Valentine, who is now managing in Japan, he saw him as a solid #3. Then again, he though Kaz Matsui would be a star. |
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| maddawg995 |
| Kaz Matsui IS a star... or at least he'll be playing in Colorado. Wouldn't surprise me if he hits .320/30/100 next season. |
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| laborlitigator |
Let's see him do it a little longer.
As for the Yanks, I hope they don't go after Zito. Suppan is the guy I want. Give me 4 #2's and 3s rather than 1 big #1 any day. |
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| keremoner |
| As a Sox fan, my nightmare is that he will not be as effective in the MLB as he is in Japan, especially after hitters figure out his 'gyroball' pitch. |
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| maddawg995 |
| I don't want Zito either. He'll probably end up with the Mets or the Padres. I'll rather have his former teammate, Mark Mulder, especially since he can be had for cheap. Schmidt would be a good pickup too is he'll take a 2 or 3 year deal. |
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| keremoner |
| BoSox out-maneouvering the Yanks for a change. Hope all that cash being spent freely will result in a championship. Still need a closer. I wonder who will be the next lottery winner. |
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