| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxxxx
Actually the point is the same. "Overall" quality would take into consideration Best vs Best, Average vs. Average, and Worst vs. Worst. As I previously mentioned, IMO I think the Pats of '76 would defeat the Pats of '03. That translates to the fact that the 3rd/4th/5th best team (however you want to rank them) that lost in the playoffs, would beat this years "best" team, the team most likely win the Superbowl. I use the Pats as an example because I believe you followed your team(s) most closely, and could easily see it.
I apoligize for my lack of communication skills... apparently, It's my fault for not properly communicating a relatively simple concept and observation.
While I agree that there is no one dominant team this year, I would hardly state that the overall quality has diminished this year. Whether the 76 Pats could beat the 03 Pats is a moot point that could be argued ad nausium.
As to your suggestion that you failed to communicate a simple concept properly, well, it was so simple as to be little more than a statement that really can not be supported by anything more than your ever so humble opinion.
As you said, I guess we can agree to dissagree. |
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| MDteX |
How 'bout them Cowboys!
What? You mean they aren't in the playoffs any longer? As a true Cowboy fan we root for the Cowboys and anybody that plays the Eagles. :moon:
Go Panthers!:yesyes:
The AFC should win the Super Bowl. I think either team is better than either NFC team. |
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| mdxxxx |
The "Parody" continues (I'ts not just me)....
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...SPG8M48QLK1.DTL
quote:
"Yes, the redistribution of talent means hope for floundering franchises, creating a fresh batch of contenders each year. But the football itself, the caliber of play that allowed the atrocious Bears to finish 7-9 and the incompetent Saints to stay in the playoff chase until the penultimate weekend of the season, became increasingly drab and uninspired"
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| Maik |
I have no quarrel with the notion that there has been a redistribution of talent. Gwen makes that point quite eloquently.
And speaking of Gwen, certainly you can do better than that as a point of reference. While I admit I have not researched her qualifications, I suspect that she is not exactly even a beat writer for any team and that her typical writing ends up on the entertainment pages.
Perhaps you can enlighten us with your analysis of what went wrong with your Raiders this year. Loose many free agents? Age factor? Coach have a brain fart? To many egos?
I am sure many of us would be interested in your analysis. |
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| mullysalt |
Thanks to ESPN's Chris Berman for the one liner and now onto the news. All these posts I've read since I've been back are astounding. Did anyone watch football last weekend or just sit around thinking of ways to come up with intelligent posts?
Those four playoff games were amazing. Yes, the Chiefs lost and their D couldn't get off the field. Peyton played an amazing game and he should get some credit for turning around his team in the postseason. Not all of his success can be put on the porous Chiefs D. He did a masterful job of audibilizing and took excellent care of the football. The Chiefs would have had to play a perfect game on offense and special teams to have won that game.
On Saturday I had the pleasure of watching the Panthers/Rams from the comforts of the CLUB level at the Edward Jones Dome in St. Louis. That game was almost as predictable as the Chiefs game the following day. I knew that if the Panthers could hold the Rams to field goals then they would have an excellent chance to win the game. Don't be surprised if the Panthers are the NFC Champions. If they can punk the Rams without S. Davis then they can take out the Eagles.
As for the other two games I only caught the second half of both of them. So I can't give a very detailed opinion except for the fact that the Pats are incredible at getting just enough points to win. That field goal was just the latest example of their ability to get the job done one way or another.
P.S.-Maik and Mensa Man good luck this weekend against the Colts. I think you might need it. |
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| keremoner |
I think that KC has a great offensive team. With some improvements to the defensive unit, they should be up there contending again next year.
Can you believe some here who say that the quality of football has diminished since a few years ago? They must know nothing about football. Of course, back then when there was no parity, good teams were noticably better than the rest and looked awesome. The overall quality of football has increased several fold. Players are stronger, faster and smarter. So how can that result in poorer teams? That is beyond me!! |
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| mullysalt |
I see both sides to the debate. From a historical perspective football in the past was about drafting well and grooming a group of players who would play most if not all of their career with one team. Therefore, dynasties such as the Steelers(70's), 49ers(80's) and the Cowboys(90's) ruled the day. With the advent of the salary cap and free agency that era is a thing of the past. Now it's entirely possible that a team can go from mediocre(7-9,8-8,9-7) to a Super Bowl champion in a year. This is the NFL that Pete Rozelle dreamed of; a league in which every team wasn't that far from the top or the bottom. A league where everyone has talent and the edge comes down to coaching and preperation.
Today's player is truly something to behold. I find it difficult to compare players from different eras because as technology advances the advantge cleary tilts towards the modern athlete. Todays players are amazing to watch but the thing is the top players from each era were just as amazing but in different ways.
In my opinion, as a kid I watched the NFL every weekend and from there a deep passion for the sport has become imbedded in me and it is that passion that inspires me to watch and go to as many games as I can. I wish the other major sports could bridge the gap but my passion just isn't there for MLB, NBA or the NHL all of which are suffering from some sort of economic or social trouble. The NFL suffers from some of these same social problems but the game remains strong and thus so does the fans' passion for the game.
For me personally I'm asking who is going to be the next Defensive Coordinator and which free agents will the Chiefs keep on their team and who can they go after?
For me it's all about the passion and as you have read that passion remains strong even after another humiliating Chief loss at home in the playoffs.
P.S.-There is another sport that evokes a similar passion from me or at least it did. I will have to see if that passion remains the same this season. |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
I have no quarrel with the notion that there has been a redistribution of talent. Gwen makes that point quite eloquently.
And speaking of Gwen, certainly you can do better than that as a point of reference. While I admit I have not researched her qualifications, I suspect that she is not exactly even a beat writer for any team and that her typical writing ends up on the entertainment pages.
Perhaps you can enlighten us with your analysis of what went wrong with your Raiders this year. Loose many free agents? Age factor? Coach have a brain fart? To many egos?
I am sure many of us would be interested in your analysis.
Interestingly enough, I really didn't research or look for a "point of reference", haven't had much time lately, but I just came across Gwen's article during my morning newspaper sweeps, just to quickly get the latest news. I have read her columns is the SF Examiner off and on for several years, and found her insight informative. She been covering the Raiders for years, and does not pull punches. If I come across more corroborating observations from others, (which shouln't be that difficult), I'll let you know.
I predicted recent Raider superbowl window being shut in the middle of last year. They were built to win the last 3 superbowls. And should have won 2 of the 3. I knew a decline was imminent, due to several factors including age, free agency, scheme adaptation (opposing teams know the Raiders playbook better than the Raiders do), a heavy influx of extremely talented, but raw and inexperienced personnel which would not mesh with a veteran oriented scheme, team chemistry issues resulting from (two teams within one) , and front office instability, (Allen now gone), Several people thought I was crazy then, but that's nothing new, getting ridiculed for seeing things "ahead of the curve" is understandable. I predicted the final record (4-12) during the first couple weeks of the season.
As I posted earlier, If we settle down front office and coaching/scheme issues, the time horizon will be 5 years minimum before the Raiders play at a respectable level, otherwise, a turn around will never happen, especially when dealing with systemic obstacles (I'll leave it at that). Al Davis has got to tone down that ego, and hire a proven turn around specialist, ie (Jimmy Johnson). The probability of that happening is 5%. Oh well, it was nice while it lasted....:( |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
... Players are stronger, faster and smarter. So how can that result in poorer teams? That is beyond me!!
keremoner,
I thought you espouse the ideal that the team is more important than the individual? My position has been is that the overall quality of play "Teams" is not as good as it once was. Individual characteristics, stats, ect are irrelevant. Not one dominant team, but several dominant teams. Several teams with units made up of hall of fame level talent. I doubt we'll see that again. Talent redistribution/dilution has done to the NFL, what income redistribution would do to the US economy. Scary.
Also, you may be too young to evaluate the earlier teams of your beloved Pats, but I tell you there is no guard in the present that was as strong, quick and intelligent than John Hannah. |
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| socalJD |
Mdxxxx - very interesting and honest observations re: the Raiders. As many here well know, I'm not a member of the Al Davis admiration society, and to me, reform/change has got to start from the TOP . . . I openly questioned the promotion of Calahan at the time, and it's interesting to note that the grand experiment only lasted 20 months - how can a casual observer like myself clearly see or not see something that the Raider braintrust obviously missed . . .
I humbly admit that I thought you were insane when you predicted the 4-12 mark, but it just further highlights the brilliance of Gruden and the incompetence of Calahan to take a superbowl team to cellar dwellers in less than a season . . . I feel your pain . . . |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by socalJD
Mdxxxx - very interesting and honest observations re: the Raiders. As many here well know, I'm not a member of the Al Davis admiration society, and to me, reform/change has got to start from the TOP . . . I openly questioned the promotion of Calahan at the time, and it's interesting to note that the grand experiment only lasted 20 months - how can a casual observer like myself clearly see or not see something that the Raider braintrust obviously missed . . .
I humbly admit that I thought you were insane when you predicted the 4-12 mark, but it just further highlights the brilliance of Gruden and the incompetence of Calahan to take a superbowl team to cellar dwellers in less than a season . . . I feel your pain . . .
Are you sure that Gruden was brilliant or maybe he saw the same writing on the wall as mdxxxx, and decided to bail out. Not the first coach to do that, ie Parcells and the king of bailing, Pitino!
I also remember mdxxxx predicting 4-12 for his Raiders and assumed at the time he was simply positioning himself to be satisfied with an 8-8 season. Too bad you did not have the conviction to take the under for the season, which I suspect was greater than 4!
And, while we are talking about how much better those dynasties of yesteryear were, let's also not loose site of those 7-7 ,and 7-6-1 mighty Vikings teams that made the playoffs! |
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| laborlitigator |
I think the second biggest boneheaded decision of the week was by GB head coach Mike Sherman for not going for it on 4th down. His team was running well against the Eagles and could have sealed the game with one additional yard.
Then, on the Eagles next play, he busts a run out to the 40 anyway. |
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| Maik |
Not much discussion about the Colts win. Mully, what was up with the defensive game plan? Looked like the defense was attempting to disquise the schemes but actually only screwed things up. If they stuck to their normal d, I believe that they would have stopped Manning on a couple of drives. The the combination of no pressure and linemen getting caught one on one was the death.
And, my hats off to the Carolina Panthers. They have come from nowhere this year and gotten it done. I think they have a real good chance to beat the Eagles this week.
While Manning is certainly on fire, I suspect that he will cool off quite a bit this Sunday. In addition to playing in his first sub freezing weather game this year ( 20-25 degrees forecast), he will be playing one of the better defenses, and on the road. The Colts have fared quite well this year on the road, but they have not had to play in Foxboro.
Interesting trend. Three teams have scored 30+ points against the Pats this year. Colts, Titans and Bills. Each time, it was the first of two meetings. In the rematches, the Bill scored 0, the Titans scored 14 and I predict that the Colts will score 17-21 (but loose the game).
While the Colts offense is terrific, the defense is quite lax and the are very weak on special teams. The only real weakness the Pats have is the punter, whose ability to put a back spin on all of his punts is truly remarkable. They all bounce back toward the line of scrimmage.
Lets see some predictions for this weekend, here's mine:
Pats 24 Colts 20
Panthers 17 Eagles 13 |
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| keremoner |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxxxx
keremoner,
I thought you espouse the ideal that the team is more important than the individual? My position has been is that the overall quality of play "Teams" is not as good as it once was. Individual characteristics, stats, ect are irrelevant. Not one dominant team, but several dominant teams. Several teams with units made up of hall of fame level talent. I doubt we'll see that again. Talent redistribution/dilution has done to the NFL, what income redistribution would do to the US economy. Scary.
Also, you may be too young to evaluate the earlier teams of your beloved Pats, but I tell you there is no guard in the present that was as strong, quick and intelligent than John Hannah.
True. I do espouse that team is more important than individuals. Afterall, how else do you explain Pats of 2001 and 2004. I also see your point that talent is more evenly distributed now. Although individual players are overall better athletes, there are fewer superstars on the same team as there used to be. |
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| Maik |
While I might agree that the current Pats team is not likely to go down in history as one of the dominant teams previously mentioned, lets understand that it is still a very good football team. You can argue all you want about the overall quality of play, but winning 13 straight is still an amazing feat in this or any other season.
The team is comprised of many very good players, who make it to the next level with teamwork, hardwork, determination and that old standby, excecution. The players make the plays they are supposed to make, when they are supposed to. Their confidence in eachother allows them to maintain focus and not get rattled in the face of adversity. This has allowed them to win many very close games this year.
As a season ticket holder and longtime fan, I have never seen so many games where the score did not indicate the "real" game. For example, the Pats beat Dallas 12-0 in what might seem like a close game, but I can assure you, the Cowboys were never in the game. Same story with the Dolphins (12-0) Browns (9-3) Jags (27-13).
No, they may not have a roster filled with hall of famers, but if they run this streak to 15, then I would strongly suggest that they are in the same class as some of the great teams of the past. Whatever the outcome of this weeks game, I have gotten my money's worth this season. |
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| mullysalt |
I think the defensive game plan is heading out of town on I-70. Blitzes that didn't get there, senseless substitutions, laying off Marvin Harrison by 10 yards in coverage and a non-existent pass rush and most importantly of all and this was something that Culpepper did very well as well and that is getting his team to the line and having time to audible according to whatever feeble blitz package the Chiefs had in because they always tipped their blitz on the first noise from the quarterback. That scheme was ill-conceived and poorly executed from the beginning. Scheme is something you pat fans might take for granted because you have the best in the business designing yours.
All your points are well backed up with quality stats, Maik. Problem is maik nobody has ever thrown the ball in the playoffs the way Peyton Manning has the last two weeks and he deserves the credit before anything is said about his opponents schemes and coaches. Manning displayed the finest quarterbacking skills I've ever seen the last two weeks. Now if the pats do win this week and in Houston, and I think your scores are very accurate predictions in my opinion, then I'll agree that they're one of the finest teams ever. As far as money worth I feel like I got mine too, I had a blast rooting on the Chiefs this season and can't wait until training camp opens. |
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| keremoner |
| Which will prevail: Pats defense or Colts offense? I still think that Pats CBs and DLs will take away most of Colts offensive punch. They are going to have to blitz a lot and take some chances. At the end, I believe the team that commits the fewest penalties and doesn't turn the ball over will win. That team, in my prediction, will be the Pats, partially thanks to the home field advantage and the weather. |
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| Maik |
Can you say deja vu?
Weather forcecast is calling for ligh snow tommorrow, with accumulations of 2 to 4 inches.
Do we have a snow bowl II in the making?
While 2 - 4 inches is not much, could pose a problem for Payton and his receivers.
The anticipation continues to build. Fortunately, winds will be light, so there should be no problem getting the grill lit! |
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| keremoner |
That was a thrashing. Pats made Colts look like a CFL team. Colts weren't even as close as the 24-14 score would indicate.
LL, do you still think Philly belongs in the same stadium as the Pats? I know, Maik, in his cautious way will have a say but he has been a Sox fan too long and does not want to jinx the team. Confidence man, confidence!! |
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| hockeyplayer |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
... Pats made Colts look like a CFL team....
Why the derogatory comment towards the CFL???? Have you ever been to a CFL game?? Do you understand the concept of the CFL?? The difference in rules?? Are you insinuating that the Colts played an exciting fast paced 3-down game with emphasis on passing?? Did the Colts think they were playing on a different sized field?? Did the Colts take a substantial pay decrease and make the team a high profile part of the community??
:shutup: |
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| m2pc |
All I can say was that it was a well executed game plan for both the offensive and defensive teams. I loved the short fake pass out to the left flat to let him run into the end zone, cb bit and it was 6 points!
Fauria should have caught 2 end-zone passes:( and I didn't understand why the Pats threw into the endzone when they could have ran and then go for FG if that failed....guess he has a lot of faith in the offense...
Want to see them play Phili, but Carolina may just pull it off ;) |
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| greatscot |
Well, Congrats to the Pats. They handled the Colts well, but stumbled a bit toward the end. They let the Colts back in the game and it was interesting until the final field goal made it academic.
2nd Superbowl in 3 years is impressive. But can they win it? |
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| keremoner |
quote:
Originally posted by greatscot
Well, Congrats to the Pats. They handled the Colts well, but stumbled a bit toward the end. They let the Colts back in the game and it was interesting until the final field goal made it academic.
2nd Superbowl in 3 years is impressive. But can they win it?
To the contrary. They did not stumble. Like any Pats fan who has watched all their games will tell you, that is Pats way of playing. When they reach a score they believe they can preserve for a win, they stop passing and go to the running game. They could have scored more but their philosophy is to win without unnecessary running up of the score. You gotta know coach Belichik to understand that.
Now, when it comes to winning in two weeks, I say it is in the bank! There has not been such a clear cut favorite in 17 years. |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
That was a thrashing. Pats made Colts look like a CFL team. Colts weren't even as close as the 24-14 score would indicate.
LL, do you still think Philly belongs in the same stadium as the Pats? I know, Maik, in his cautious way will have a say but he has been a Sox fan too long and does not want to jinx the team. Confidence man, confidence!!
Keremoner,
If you check, I did pick the Pats easily over the Colts. As for the Eagles, choke city again. It looks like a battle of 2 defensive teams in the Superbowl. . .
You've got to favor the Pats right now. They should be at least a touchdown favorite. Perhaps even as much as 9 or 10 points. |
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| greatscot |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
To the contrary. They did not stumble. . . . that is Pats way of playing. When they reach a score they believe they can preserve for a win, they stop passing and go to the running game. They could have scored more but their philosophy is to win without unnecessary running up of the score. You gotta know coach Belichik to understand that. . .
O.K. Whatever you say . . . :rolleyes: good luck in the big game. |
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| mullysalt |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
You've got to favor the Pats right now. They should be at least a touchdown favorite. Perhaps even as much as 9 or 10 points.
Yes indeed good call on the early line. I heard on TV that the Super Bowl opens at Pats -7. Early money is coming in on the Panthers.
Onto the games.
Good day to be a CB wearing #24. Ty Law and Rickey Manning each had three picks for their respective teams. First, the Pats game, honestly after each teams' first drive I thought the game was over even though there were three minutes left in the first quarter. NE moved the ball in their normal fashion with a big fourth down conversion mixed in to keep the drive alive resulting in Tom Brady's lone TD pass on the day. The Colts answered and moved the ball right down the field and Manning promptly threw the ball to the wrong Harrison, Rodney not Marvin. In my mind, that was game, set match right there, Pats win.
In the late game, Carolina beat the crap out of the Eagles in every aspect of the game and won easily. The game wasn't as close as the score might indicate. Carolina looked really impressive in playing their game for the third week in a row. Three wins all with different game plans and all well executed. John Fox and his team have some well overdue respect coming their way the next two weeks in the national media.
Now for Super Bowl predictions: New England will win a close game. I like Carolina to cover (+7). Brady and Vinateri(SP?) will be the difference. It will be a very physical game and low scoring. Brady will add to his growing mystique as the Pats will attempt to become what I thought was impossible, a modern day dynasty in the NFL. According to ESPN's John Clayton the Pats have seven picks in the first four rounds of this years' draft. Wow! The Pats should remain a threat for several more years to come since it looks as though all the coaches will be back along with an influx of young talent. Bellichik and Scott Pioli's track record is very convincing in regards to evaluating talent. Combine that with the fact that the Pats are always well prepared and their window for championships should remain open for quite awhile.
P.S.-Dickie get your Gun!
Chiefs hire former head coach Gunther Cunningham(16-16) as their new defensive coordinator. This solidifies their coaching staff for next season as OC Al Saunders also signed a two year extension @ 1 million per, making him one of the highest paid OC's in the league. Saunders deserved a raise after the offenses' performance during his tenure. Vermeil wants Saunders to succeed him as head coach. The return of Gun hopefully will give the defense the lift that it needs. During his tenure as Chiefs head coach the defense was very solid while the offense withered with Tony Gonzalez as the only big-time player. I like the move but only time will tell if it's the cure-all for the Chiefs defense shortcomings.
Have a nice day! |
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| Maik |
Awesome championship game yesterday. Coaching staff put together an amazing game plan, both offensive and defensive.
The defense was hitting so hard, the receivers were hearing bells all day. Pats secondary proved that man to man with pressure up the middle is the way to distrupt Manning. Also, not showing defensive scheme until offense was set. Long drives on offense killed the clock. If they could have scored one td in the several trips in the red zone, the game would have been a blowout. As it was, Pats were in command the entire game.
That game was the loudest I have ever heard Gillette (only 2 seasons mind you).
Two MVP's back to back, giving up 14 points to each.
14 in a row, baby...one more to go!
:2: |
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| mdxxxx |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
That was a thrashing. Pats made Colts look like a CFL team. Colts weren't even as close as the 24-14 score would indicate.
LL, do you still think Philly belongs in the same stadium as the Pats? I know, Maik, in his cautious way will have a say but he has been a Sox fan too long and does not want to jinx the team. Confidence man, confidence!!
As expected. If you read my posts, you shouldn't be surprised. I repeat, the Colts are too soft, despite Maiks disagreement. One can plainly see it in watching them play. The Colts were never a threat, and neither will be Carolina.
:24: :23: |
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| MDteX |
quote:
Originally posted by MDteX
How 'bout them Cowboys!
As a true Cowboy fan we root for the Cowboys and anybody that plays the Eagles. :moon:
Go Panthers!:yesyes:
The AFC should win the Super Bowl. I think either team is better than either NFC team.
Yeah baby! The Eagles are starting to look like Buffalo, get to the dance and then trip on your on feet!:2party: |
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| m2pc |
quote:
Originally posted by MDteX
Yeah baby! The Eagles are starting to look like Buffalo, get to the dance and then trip on your on feet!:2party:
:crying:
Ouch, now thats cold! |
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| socalJD |
quote:
Originally posted by MDteX
Yeah baby! The Eagles are starting to look like Buffalo, get to the dance and then trip on your on feet!:2party:
Sorry, cannot agree with the 1st part - getting to 4 straight SBs is light years better than getting to 3 straight div championship games AND not making it to the SB. Buffalo was a MUCH better team and with a lil' luck should've come away with at least 1 SB - if Norwood's FG doesn't go wide right, Buffalo beats NYG 22-20 in their 1st SB appearance . . . heck even Denver lost 4 SB's before winning back to back titles - gotta make it to the dance which Philly has not done since Vermiel in 1981. . . |
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| MDteX |
quote:
Originally posted by socalJD
Sorry, cannot agree with the 1st part - getting to 4 straight SBs is light years better than getting to 3 straight div championship games AND not making it to the SB. Buffalo was a MUCH better team and with a lil' luck should've come away with at least 1 SB - if Norwood's FG doesn't go wide right, Buffalo beats NYG 22-20 in their 1st SB appearance . . . heck even Denver lost 4 SB's before winning back to back titles - gotta make it to the dance which Philly has not done since Vermiel in 1981. . .
True. Philly hasn't been there in a LONG time. Buffalo had some great years and an awesome run but for some reason couldn't pull it off. Dallas has lost its share of Superbowls's too. :crying:
Philly can't be in the same league as Buffalo until they make it there or at least win one. |
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