| ndahbar |
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I am going nuts. Even though I DO NOT plan to buy a new TV anytime soon (probably summer 2005 at the earliest), I have read and researched these 3 technologies online extensively. Actually, that's an understatement.
It is still nonetheless tough to figure out which is the future. I wanted your opinions.
In a very very short and imcomplete nutshell, what I learned was:
1. Plasma looks best now, but burn-in is assured to occur after like 4000 hours (or if you play video games, MUCH sooner). So it doesn't look like it will prevail
2. DLP vs LCD quality of pic...DUNNO hard to tell from what they say. It seems DLP more complex so more prone to permanently blackened pixels due to failing mirrors? Or can they get an early handle on that? It seems LCD has the upper hand...
3. ...but LCD is too expensive. DLP much more affordable.
In the end, we are witnessing a FRENZY in the consumer market of these three or four competing technologies, widescreen proliferation (at least the start of it), and HDTV etc. All this stuff IMHO is in its infancy, and we all need to be smart and WAIT a year or TWO to see how things settle. HDTV is lame to spend $$ on now (unless you have $$ to burn...if you do send me some!) because there are like 4 channels in HDTV (i heard HBO is attainable in HDTV though)
Admittedly, I think 2005 will be a great year for the TV market. 2004, way too muddy now to know wassup. Hence, no way will I spend a buck on any of it before 12-15 months from now.
In the meantime if you really need to, get something like a traditional display Sony WEGA which is in Widescreen and supports HDTV. You might as well get something nice if you're buying in 2004, but it's under $2K which is fine! But to me those spending money on plasma are just not being savvy consumers.
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| DaleB |
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I think its wise to wait, newer technologies (Intel, etc.) promise better quality for less dough in 05, plus the others will improve and prices drop accordingly. No rush!! Wait at least until the next Super Bowl.
There are still fine RPTVs around if you must have HDTV now, or conventional direct view wide screens with great pictures, even if you can't hang them on the wall.
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| XStatic |
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Don't forget about LCoS (liquid-crystal-on-silicon), not quite the contrast as DLP but better color and higher resolution for a comparable price.
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| kuroyama |
quote:
2. DLP vs LCD quality of pic...DUNNO hard to tell from what they say. It seems DLP more complex so more prone to permanently blackened pixels due to failing mirrors? Or can they get an early handle on that? It seems LCD has the upper hand...
If you take a look over at avsforum.com, there are very few reports of stuck mirrors on DLP displays (and DLP displays have been out for several years now). If you do get a stuck mirror, it can be replaced under warranty.
OTOH, there is a fairly high (maybe 40-50% ?) percentage of LCD displays that have one or more stuck pixels. And these displays can develop stuck pixels over time. If you check the warranty, it allows for a certain number of these (also depending on their position), and they will not replace your display for these.
I agree, it seems like all of those moving mirrors on a DLP display seem to be more prone to failure, but their history seems to suggest otherwise. I, myself, have a Samsung DLP rear projection and am very happy with it (and may explain my bias).
Prices are sure to drop, but some of the high-def content out there looks amazing on these displays. Check out avsforum.com for all the latest info.
Don
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| JayPogi |
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I heard of a projection LCD--- good lcd quality at a good price. :D
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| mgtr |
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I faced all these choices last summer. I had a dedicated room for a home theater, but did not know how to choose. I now know that the future is definitely front projection, but with uncertain technology. I also think that plasma is not the answer, just too many potential problems.
But, you want to do something now. So I bought a 65" Mitsubishi rear projection widescreen, along with associated equipment (settop box, amp, DVD, etc). I am pleased for now, and will see how the front projection stuff shakes out over the next year or so.
Re HDTV: There is a lot of HDTV on right now. About 50% of all prime time, sports on ESPN HD, major events, much is available over the air, digital cable, Directv, Dish, etc. Warning: once you have seen large screen HDTV, you will be hooked.
A side note: My wife said "well, go ahead if that is what you want." Hah! If it is in HDTV, she is in there before me, watching what she wants!
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| mogur |
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HDTV is my business. I recommend only two types of sets to those who ask: DLP and LCOS. I beleive everything else is technology that is either past its prime or has too many drawbacks. That being said, I would wait until mid year when the next generations of DLP (HD2+ and HD3) and LCOS engined sets are introduced. I have seen all of them and they are worth the wait...
Tom
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| XStatic |
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For DLP I think it would be best to wait for 3 chip systems to come down in price.
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| BlueStreak |
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I'm not sure I want to wait this long. Plus, what's to say this time next year we're not all saying "...wait another 8-10 months for the latest...". There is always going to be bigger and better at lower prices; this is a given. I'm not a plasma fan due to the related issues with burn-in and durability, but the others have issues as well.
I liked the Sony Grand Wega series, and they are priced to move. Since my basement is almost finished, it will be decision time in the coming months and I'll want to use the room (after working on it for 8 months).
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| DUBYA123 |
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i had the same question about 2 months ago, i bought a plasma, i really wished I hadnt, I keep lookin at the PHILLIPS LCoS at the stores, i love playin video games and noticed the little burn ins it gets, but it goes away when you keep changing the channels, The LCDs dont get that, wanted to hook up my computer to the plasma
but if it gets bad with video games just imagine the damage the computer layout would be........safe bet go with LCDs DLPs or LCoS
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| JeffK |
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Think about Moore's law.
Think about all those factories in Asia building lap tap computers with LCD screens.
Wait 18 months and you will see that technology applied to big screen TV's and apply Moore's law.
You do the math - IMHO LCD's because of price will rule.
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| mogur |
The first and second generation TI DLP chips were out a little over two years each. Therefore, it is reasonable to assume a twp year life for the generation coming out mid year. To me, that makes it worth my while to wait until mid year to buy my set. I've seen the improvements and they are significant and very visible. Past this point, we have come to the juncture where the presentation mechanism, in terms of contrast range, blacks, colorimetry, screen door effect, etc., at least for 720P devices, has reached close to the maximum capability of the video signal itself and further display improvements will bring neglibile visual improvements. Three chip devices (which will totally eliminate rainbow effect but increase convergence errors) are the next likely plateau but represent a very small ROI.
Tom
quote:
Originally posted by BlueStreak
I'm not sure I want to wait this long. Plus, what's to say this time next year we're not all saying "...wait another 8-10 months for the latest...".
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| Tom-TX |
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LCD TVs face fierce fight from new tech CRTs
Shallow TV technology displayed
By INQUIRER staff: Monday 23 August 2004, 07:52
RESEARCH COMPANY Meko said that LG-Philips will show off a shallow depth cathode ray tube (CRT) for TVs, while other giants such as Samsung are also identifying opportunities in the technology.
According to Bob Raikes, MD of Meko, his firm's forecasts show that CRT tech will remain the dominant technology in TVs for Europe. He said: "Even in 2007 we see CRTs outselling flat panel TVs by around three to one".
It's performance that's the key, it appears. Flat panel TV makers, like their counterparts in the LCD monitor business, still need to do a great deal to match the performance of the 100 year old CRT technology.
Raikes said that speakers from LG-Philips, Samsung and AU Optronic will join many others to discuss trends in the TV and display markets at a DisplayForum conference jointly held in the Netherlands at the end of September.
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| MDteX |
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I'm still in the market to replace my old Sony XBR tube. It still works perfectly just want something newer and larger.
I still think plasma is the way to go, for now. Technology changes so fast there will be newer display technologies appearing at a rapid pace IMHO.
From what I've learned from avsforum over the last year or so.
Plasma - Possible burn in problem but very rare, especially if you turn off the panel and don't use video games. Best side to side viewing and most lifelike color. Most expensive. Size now reaching to 82" inches, for LOTS of money!
LCD - Great picture but has size limitations. Less side to side viewing that plasma and not good top to bottom viewing so the panel needs to be mounted at viewing eye level--which most people do anyway.
DLP - Good cost ratio for size but some people report the "rainbow" problem and the screen door problem. Larger units than plasma and LCD. Overall users seem less happy with these purchases than buyers of the other two technologies.
On the horizon are new types of LCD, OLED, SED, etc.
The new Fujitsu, Hitachi and Sony 55" plasmas are on my list. Now I must convince the wife and find the funds to buy the darn thing!
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| MK23666 |
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Sarnoff Corporation’s New CRT Technology Will Cut Depth of TVs and Computer Monitors By 50%
New S3 Picture Tube Enables Big Screens with 11-Inch Depth at a Fraction of the Cost of Flat Panel Monitors; Can Be Manufactured on Existing CRT Assembly Lines
Princeton, NJ (August 15, 2001) – Sarnoff Corporation, the video pioneer that originally invented the color CRT (Cathode Ray Tube) –or picture tube, as it is popularly called—today announced the development of S3 (S-Cubed) Technology for CRTs, which shrinks the depth of 32-inch televisions and computer monitors from 22 inches to only 11 inches while improving overall picture quality.
Manufacturers who license Sarnoff’s patented S3 technology can use existing assembly lines to produce displays as large as 32" that will fit on the 12-inch shelves designed for VCR’s and DVD players. Larger screens, up to 40", would be only slightly deeper. The resulting shallow-profile displays could eliminate the need for deep TV cabinets and free up floor space in viewing areas, or free up desk space with low-cost, high quality PC monitors. It is capable of HDTV performance.
Although the CRT was invented over 100 years ago, it is still the benchmark for brightness, color, wide viewing angle, low cost, and overall picture quality. However, its depth is a disadvantage that has helped spur the sales growth of the competing flat-panel monitors –such as LCDs (liquid crystal displays) or plasma screens. But despite the compelling advantage of their slim profile, the new breed of flat-panel monitors generally suffers from lower brightness and contrast, as well as a restricted viewing angle and high cost.
"We’ve invented a whole new wheel," say James Birch, Director of Business Development at Sarnoff Corporation. "We’ve taken technology that is so fundamentally sound that after 100 years it’s still the industry standard – and we’ve found a way to make it significantly better."
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| MDteX |
quote:
Originally posted by MK23666
Sarnoff Corporation’s New CRT Technology Will Cut Depth of TVs and Computer Monitors By 50%
New S3 Picture Tube Enables Big Screens with 11-Inch Depth at a Fraction of the Cost of Flat Panel Monitors; Can Be Manufactured on Existing CRT Assembly Lines
Princeton, NJ (August 15, 2001) – Sarnoff Corporation, the video pioneer that originally invented the color CRT (Cathode Ray Tube) –or picture tube, as it is popularly called—today announced the development of S3 (S-Cubed) Technology for CRTs, which shrinks the depth of 32-inch televisions and computer monitors from 22 inches to only 11 inches while improving overall picture quality.
Manufacturers who license Sarnoff’s patented S3 technology can use existing assembly lines to produce displays as large as 32" that will fit on the 12-inch shelves designed for VCR’s and DVD players. Larger screens, up to 40", would be only slightly deeper. The resulting shallow-profile displays could eliminate the need for deep TV cabinets and free up floor space in viewing areas, or free up desk space with low-cost, high quality PC monitors. It is capable of HDTV performance.
Although the CRT was invented over 100 years ago, it is still the benchmark for brightness, color, wide viewing angle, low cost, and overall picture quality. However, its depth is a disadvantage that has helped spur the sales growth of the competing flat-panel monitors –such as LCDs (liquid crystal displays) or plasma screens. But despite the compelling advantage of their slim profile, the new breed of flat-panel monitors generally suffers from lower brightness and contrast, as well as a restricted viewing angle and high cost.
"We’ve invented a whole new wheel," say James Birch, Director of Business Development at Sarnoff Corporation. "We’ve taken technology that is so fundamentally sound that after 100 years it’s still the industry standard – and we’ve found a way to make it significantly better."
Obviously this lost investors lots of money. For my dollar it is still plasma. But in 5 years I think one of the new LED type panels will prevail.
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| phins2rt |
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And it still looks like they can only go up to a 40 inch screen:rolleyes:
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| 04mdx4sq |
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If you are looking for the perfect monitor, it's not out there yet. A word to the wise, anyone looking at LCD projection, take a DVD with dark scenes with you to view on the unit. Make sure you can live with fair black levels.
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| crmsnidol |
quote:
Originally posted by 04mdx4sq
If you are looking for the perfect monitor, it's not out there yet. A word to the wise, anyone looking at LCD projection, take a DVD with dark scenes with you to view on the unit. Make sure you can live with fair black levels.
Which is why I'm waiting to build a projector system. As long as you start with a good quality/resultion projector, you can compensate for black levels with different screens/materials or wall paint depending on how you project. Projectors of course rely on you having total lighting control in the room so they aren't suited for every purpose.
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| MDteX |
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If someone is in a hurry CompUSA is running a special on a 42" Daewoo plasma with a DVD recorder for $1999. (At least that is what me friend says.) The plasma "guts" and glass are actually NEC. The plamsa has received pretty good reviews. I'm not sure how long the sale lasts.
I'm still waiting. I think 1 more year and I'll jump on the 55" or 61" plasma bus! :cool:
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| MDteX |
quote:
Originally posted by Tom-TX
Never mind.....
I bit the bullet and purchased the Mits 62" DLP. All I can say is :eek: and :2: and :5: !!!! My off the air antenna is better than cable or satellite!
Congrats! :29: I'm a little envious. I'm still tossing around the idea of the Hitachi 55" plasma. But technology is changing so fast in displays that I just can't pull the trigger yet.
Rumor has it that next year plasmas may be true 1080 HD so that is probably when I will jump on board. I spend as much time at avsforum.com as I do here!
BTW, we are neighbors! I'm in Coppell.
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| Tom-TX |
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I wanted to wait as well, but the TV Gods decided it was time to claim my old 50" CRT rear projector. That plus 24-months no interest financing pushed me over the edge. I also realized the fact that no matter when you purchase any electronic thingie, it gets replaced with a new model in 6 months and a new version in one year, so if you need it why wait?
Next month Mitsubishi comes out with the 825 series that has an integrated 250Gig HD for HD recording on the fly.
And ya, I had been lurking on AVS and just made my first post today.
Didn't go for the plasmas mainly because my wife didn't like the standard definition stretched and conserns for burn in plus price vs DLP. After less than one week of viewing, she complains if we don't use the stretch mode.
PS
When I moved here in '82 (Las Colinas office) I almost went to Coppell. Can't remember why not now.
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| zafer |
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Anyone here have any of the Panasonic DLP or LCDP HDTVs?
Can video games be played on these types of projection TVs?
I'm currently looking at these models PT-50DL54, PT-60LCX64, or PT-60LC14.
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| MDteX |
quote:
Originally posted by Tom-TX
I wanted to wait as well, but the TV Gods decided it was time to claim my old 50" CRT rear projector. That plus 24-months no interest financing pushed me over the edge. I also realized the fact that no matter when you purchase any electronic thingie, it gets replaced with a new model in 6 months and a new version in one year, so if you need it why wait?
Next month Mitsubishi comes out with the 825 series that has an integrated 250Gig HD for HD recording on the fly.
And ya, I had been lurking on AVS and just made my first post today.
Didn't go for the plasmas mainly because my wife didn't like the standard definition stretched and conserns for burn in plus price vs DLP. After less than one week of viewing, she complains if we don't use the stretch mode.
PS
When I moved here in '82 (Las Colinas office) I almost went to Coppell. Can't remember why not now.
Too bad you didn't make it to Coppell. We could have been neighbors!
I'm waiting until after the CEDIA show in January to determine what's new and what I will do. Too many choices and yes the technology changes so fast whatever I buy will be outpaced in a few months by something better, cheaper and faster.
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| mkmojay |
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I think that there is no "best" technology since the viewing experience is subjective. A DLP in one person's home might be the wrong technology for somone else for numerous reasons. What is best for you?
With that said I bought Mitsubishi 52" DLP WD-52525 television. Which, by the way, is one of CNET's highest rated DLP televisions. It had a fan noise problem and the and trying to get service for it from Mitsubishi proved to be impossible. I had full intention of getting the same TV when I went back to the store.
Then when I went back to the store there was this Sony Plamsa all of a sudden, the KDE-42XS955, to be exact. Let me just say, it was night and day between the level of detail on a regular digital signal and the depth of color. It looked better than the DLP. As a matter of fact the same delivery people set up both TVs and they were amazed at the difference. The salesperson told me that the Digital Reality Creation would create a better SDTV picture. The sound is incredible, I'm still trying yo figure where all that bass is coming from. The case design is flawless and there are a couple of features to prevent burn-in.
I never would have thought that I would get a plasma, but I did and I think that it suits my television viewing habits and enhances my viewing experience.
The technical aspects of what technology is "best" is very subjective. If I played a lot of video games then this wouldn't be my first choice. It would be a lot easier if I could have found something that gave a "best case viewing scenario" for each type of technology. What can a DLP do better over a Plasma or LCD and vice versa. I guess that really depends on the particular television.
I think it is amazing that a salesperson can sale you a TV and not even ask HOW you watch TV. What type of viewing conditions are YOU going to be watching this TV. For instance, the first sales person kept telling me how the Plasmas have a definite viewing life and that eventually it would burn out. What he failed to know, was that I buy a new TV every few years so really, that wasn't one of my main concerns, especially since I was getting an extended warranty anyway.
So to each their own. Buy what you like and if you don't like it try something else.
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| JeffK |
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Just my $.02.
I do not play any games and use my television to primarily watch broadcast (98% of the time) the balance to watch DVD's (2%)
I watch TV through Cablevision.
IMHO, there are three distinct categories and comparing them is like mixing apples and oranges. In order of viewing quality:
Plasma
LCD
Rear projection -LCD or DLP
Plasma:
If you compare side by side, Plasma blows away rear projection LCD or DLP. Downside, outrageous cost and huge electricity drain (but if you can afford $5000 plus for a TV, the extra $10 per month on electricity should not be a consideration). Life is not a consideration either - there will be new technologies out way before the picture dies. Sizes 37 inches to 65 inches plus. Cost $4,000 to $12,000.
LCD:
Excellent picture, rapidly decreasing price - but limitation as to size. In 12 to 18 months, as the computer manufactures gear up you will see larger picture size and rapidly decreasing prices. Think DELL as the manufacturing model. Sizes 15 inches to 32 inches. Cost $1500 to $4,000.
Rear Projection - LCD or DLP
Alternative to Plasma. Big screen, much smaller depth than original rear projection, better picture quality than original rear projection and lighter in weight. 50% to 65% lower in cost than same size Plasma. Side by side comparison to Plasma, Plasma wins hands down! The buyer has to decide if the extra cost of Plasma is warranted. Sizes 37 inches to 65 inches. Cost $2500 to $5,000.
Difference between LCD or DLP technology I leave to the techies on this board. But remember that this technology is primarily an alternative to Plasma at a substantial savings. IMHO HD Plasma blows away the best LCD - DLP rear projection. Paying more for a rear projection LCD - DLPwill only get you small incremental improvement.
Remember rear projection LCD or DLP is an inexpensive alternative to Plasma - so do not go overboard on price - this technology has limitations and can only go so far. You have the law of dimishing returns.
Like computers, the longer you wait the better the product and the cheaper the price!
Good luck in your purchase.
JeffK
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| DaleB |
There are some excellent looking CRT RPs for those who really want to save money. While bulky when compared to other flat screen options, they are less expensive.
I think this is still is a solid option for those desiring a very large screen (beyond 50"). Toshiba, Pioneer, Sony, Panasonic, Hitachi, and Mits are all very good.
Of course with newer tecnologies arriving on the scene, and prices dropping, CRT/RP displays become a less attractive alternative.
For one thing, CRT lifespan is probably shorter than a direct view TV. They also should be professionally calibrated for the best picture. The higher end options include high scan rates, media slots, etc. etc.
Here's links to a couple of roundup reviews.
http://hometheatermag.com/directviewandplasmatvs/157/
http://hometheatermag.com/directvie...tvs/204faceoff/
You can get similar features in high-end direct view sets too, if smaller screen sizes are desired.
LCD, LCOS, and DLP are certainly catching up with plasma advantages. While plasmas deteriorate slowly, about 50% brightness after 10 years, other technologies have 'bulbs' that require replacement after several thousands of hours. They are not cheap, but there is virtually no dimming of the picture during their normal lifespan.
The Feds are apparently putting pressure on mfrs to slowly do away with non-digital sets by 2006. I believe this has recently slipped to 2007. As prices fall with improved technology the consumer can only win out in the end.
I read Home Theater Mag, Sound & Vision, Widescreen, etc. I also keep up with AV forums like AVS.com, Hometheaterforum.com, hometheatertalk.com, and others. It's a great way to learn from others experiences.
And don't forget most of the same flat screen technologies can be obtained with projectors in the 2-5K price range. They shoud be used with a quality screen, but can provide some nice options depending on your veiwing room.
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| 04mdx4sq |
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Direct view LCD panels are getting larger, we have the Sharp 45" lcd on display. Nice unit, but a bit pricey at the moment.
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by bmorris2784
102 in. plasma display
I would need 'plasma' after seeing the entry in my checkbook for that puppy!!! :D
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| mdx99 |
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I had the Sony 42" HDTV Plasma for a few months already, model KDE42XBR950, bought from ABE's Maine from the web, some $2500 less than BestBuy.
Never regret it, the best picture I ever experience from a TV, terrific sound as well.
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