| jswift2000 |
My wife and are thinking about adding an addition to our existing home. We'll be adding b/t 500 and 600 sq ft, which will include a new kitchen, a new family room, plus moving a wall here or there (just to reconfig a room). Were thinking about using KraftMaid cabinets and corian or granite for the countertops.
Has anyone gone through a renovation before and if so can you please tell me about how much $$$ per sq ft, would you do it again and was it a stressful time with a big hole in the house.
Thanks everyone. |
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| harmonr1 |
| I did a major remodel but didn't add any sq. ft. I had no kitchen for about nine months and the microwave on the floor in the family room and the coffee pot in the kitchen. I did most of the work myself so I can't give any kind of estimate there. Beware, no matter what you do, there will be dirt and dust everywhere! I partitioned off half the house, sealed the A/C vents and turned it off. I still had dust in every conceivable place. Luckily, I am single. A word of advice, send your wife off to visit her mother for a few months.:2: :2: |
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| XStatic |
I am 7 years into a project that doubled the size of the house.
To be fair it is the addition of a garage, exercise room, office, and 40x20 bonus room. It is not unusual to have an unfinished bonus room and an unfinished garage but I really expected to be done by now....
There is a lot more work in doing it yourself than I imagined and I have a few areas of the existing structure damaged from tieing in plumbing, gas, and electrical, network, audio, and video. Also having such a big project on the list of things to do makes it difficult to allocate time to do those small projects around the house.
I would highly recommend getting a contractor to do all the work and be sure to get some deadlines although expect problems to occur. They will get sick, bad weather, faminly emergencies, other jobs will conflict, etc. All will delay your progress. I had a framing sub and a brick sub, but both were difficult to keep on the job even though I only paid weekly as a % of the job done and held out an additional 30% for completion.
I really hope to get a sub to do the drywall up this year as I am just about finished in the walls! |
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| renov8r |
...the most expensive room to remodel is the KITCHEN. It will cost at least $10,000 to do a decent job on even the smallest kitchen (100 sq ft or less). If you want high end counter tops you could easily spend $10K on just those. Prices for kitchen cabinets are all over the map with $30K being a number that is not uncommon. Similarly a BATHROOM is going to cost major money, high end tile, deluxe multi head showers, HEATED soak tubs/whirlpools, custom closets, fancy toilets all push the price way way up.
Remodeling such rooms will TOTALLY DISTORT the cost per sq ft.
On the other end you can add on an enclosed "three season room" for a tiny amount on per sq ft basis.
Other things that drive the price up are how/where the addition sits in relation to the existing house. In the least expensive case there is an existing transition/passage. Enlarging a window/doorway is cheap and often require minimal re-do to "old" space. Contrast this to having to 'open up' an entire existing wall, math flooring, match finished ceilings, match exteriors. It get VERY VERY expensive because this quickly crosses the line from "rough carpentry" (which goes fast and can use workers of minimal skill) to "finish carpentry/cabinet building" where every joint is a hand fit (and requires lots more time/skill/money).
Is it important to you that the EXTERIOR of this addition looks like it was "always there"? Regardless of the material used to finish (vinyl, DryVit, wood siding, brick) it takes more skill to match to existing than building new. If you do want/need brick that can really drive up the cost of a remodel because of the added amount of care that has to go into the foundation (there is no way to "hide" a less perfect foundation in a remodel with brick -- when starting new a good mason can plan to minimize any slope/elevation variations, but a remodel forces them to match the existing AND conform to a smaller/fresher foundation).
ALL THAT SAID, the 'magic number' for a remodel is pretty much never over $300/sq ft (assuming no 'luxury' material like granite/marble) AND VERY hard to drop BELOW $100/sq ft (unless you are "in the business" and NOT paying yourself).
That is a HUGE range and for a project of 500-600 sq ft means that you might get legitimately qualified contractors' bids from $50,000 to $180,000. That is really tough. To help make the decision I think it is important to first assess how much THE HOUSE NEEDS THE ADDITIONS. This is different than HOW MUCH YOU WANT THE ADDITION. Is the existing space "functionally obsolete" -- is it impossible to use current kitchen appliances like a coffee maker/microwave without taking up all available counter space. If so then the addition is needed. Ditto for the "family room" -- can you fit a modern, large TV in there with furniture to sit on AND walk in/out unimpeded. If not then the addition is needed. Compare your house to others VERY nearby (not way over on the other side of town where the lots are bigger and/or the houses are newer). Is your house about the same size? About the same quality? If not then you NEED to upgrade.
In most cases folks WANT to remodel much more than the HOUSE NEEDS it -- that is OK. In fact it often turns out NICER that way because the owners are not "backed into a corner" over doing the minimum. The only downside is that sometimes folks expect that "any money spent on a remodel increases the value" -- bzzt NOT ALWAYS. Should not be a big deal UNLESS YOU WANT/NEED to sell.
As to "would you do it again" the only folks who don't say YES are those who a) unexpectedly need to sell b) run into an unanticipated 'defect' that sucks up the budget and doesn't add to the function/fun of the remodel c) have a contractor that goes bust/abandons them and causes the project to drag on/ consume more money to re-do.
My dad and grandfather where in the construction business for over 50 years. Other than sweeping the yard as wee tot and helping with some office stuff I never got into the business before we shut down. A lot of my friends/family left it because there is brutal competition -- on the low end there are guys who think they're contractors because they have a pickup and a hammer (these tend to be the guys that disappear). On the high end there are companies that spend half of their annual revenue on advertising and layers of sales consultants. Unfortunately this adds NOTHING BUT COST to homeowners' projects. There are honest contractors who know what they are doing and work hard it. To find one, YOU have to do the leg work and check 'em out -- they are too busy busting their hump on PROJECTS to take time and try and get more work...
If you really know exactly what you want you can get software that give a pretty good starting point for basic blueprints. Once you track down a good contractor they can pick through any stuff you/the software missed and give a solid estimate. With a solid history of completed projects under their belt you can decide to give 'em a start date or just sell & move. If, however, you don't know exactly what you want, you might consider meeting with an architect. If you meet them and they can help you decide what will work and what won't it is valuable all by itself. As long as you let them know you are still "deciding" they will usually NOT start producing drawings & work specs so there won't be a charge. If the info they give you makes you decide to proceed with the project you can often work out a flat fee or straight time schedule of fees -- the thousand dollars or so that a skilled architect might charge for a smallish remodel addition means that the contractor will have start with better estimates for materials and a "look" that adds to most projects. The AIA has an online "finder" to get started. http://www.aia.org/architect_finder/archfind_cando.asp
GOOD LUCK! |
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| ghost |
Wow renov8or! Great post, not sure what I can add to that!
But we about doubled the footprint our our house in 96; turning a cramped kitchen into a combined kitchen/dining room, island thing, and adding an extra office/bedroom space. Also involved digging out an extension to the basement, which turned into storage/project room/sauna space.
The work is just about done, just some trim work remaining, and that one wall on the outside that needs new TYPAR because the 1996 first layer finally disintegrated - it really doesn't take well to several seasons exposure to UV light. And maybe some other things that we just don't notice anymore. :)
Anyway, my answers your questions:
-It will cost more than you think.
-It will be highly stressful
-Getting it the way you want is immensely rewarding.
Good luck!
P.S. Solid surface countertops rock! We went with WilsonArts version of Corian, the island is a single 6' x 9' piece with inset sink and stove. It's amazing how much stuff you can pile on it. |
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| trixie |
| Your remodeling stories sound like nightmares. Perhaps it's time to move, seriously. Consider that your remodel will put your home at the high-end of the neighborhood, which could make your house very difficult to sell. |
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| BigDog |
Mr. BigDog is a general contractor doing high-end additions and remodels. We NEVER quote anything on a per square foot basis for all the reasons mentioned above. We do a detailed estimate based on the plans and specs with allowances for anything not decided yet, like appliances, fixtures, etc. Our subcontractors and major suppliers like the cabinetmaker get copies of the plans, and everyone gets a walk through of the job so there are no questions.
General rules are it always takes longer and costs more than you think it will, and that remodeling an older home will always cost much more than building a new house on a per square foot basis, again for all the reasons Renov8r pointed out.
If you have an architect already, you can ask for some recommendations for a good contractor that he/she has worked with before. If you find a contractor that you like, who comes highly recommended, and whose work you like, involving him in the design process early on is a good idea. Even the best architect isn't always that in touch with building costs. We've had many clients decide not to do a job at all once they find out how much it will cost to build, and then they are usually pissed off at the architect who designed the project. Of course, the architect already got paid for his work. All our time and our sub and suppliers' time was for free. A contractor can make cost saving suggestions along the way if they know your budget. You can let everyone know which things are really important to you, and which you are willing to compromise on to save money.
Also, regarding your budget, as long as you find an honest, reputable contractor, it's always best to tell them how much you are able to spend. If your finances don't come anywhere close to buying what you think you want, it saves everyone from wasting their time, and you from wasting your money on a set of plans that will never be built. A lot of people are afraid that if they tell a contractor how much they are willing to spend, the contractor will find a way to spend it all. Maybe that's true with a fly-by-night company, but an honest contractor will tell you if your budget is realistic for the amount of work you want done. A detailed estimate will show exactly where the money is going so you can question anything that looks out of line.
Most of our work has come from one architect that we have been working with for 10 years. The rest has been repeat business from past clients, and client referrals who were happy with our work. We don't advertise and we run the business out of a home office so our overhead is low. Because we employ skilled workers and pay them well, including benefits, we use quality materials, and have used the same subcontractors and suppliers for years and years who are not necessarily the cheapest but we can trust to do good work and are reliable, we are never the low bidder. Even though we may cost more, the money goes into the project, not our pockets.
Don't automatically take the low bid - sometimes they are cheap for a reason. If you get several bids and they are all pretty close, and all are reputable contractors with excellent references, you'll probably be okay with the low bid. If one bid is significantly lower than the others, run. Check references, get certificates of workers comp and liability insurance, check their license status, and check with your local Better Business Bureau to see if any complaints have been filed. And pay your contractor on time.
Mrs. BigDog |
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| jswift2000 |
Thanks guys, expecially renov8r and BigDog. I really appreciate your opions, suggestions and experiences. We had a builder come over this past weekend to explain what we are looking for, what he recommends, etc. He was going to put some numbers together for us and then we'll make a decision. If we do an addition, hes going to recommend an architect for us and we'll look at some more. The builder that came over really impressed my wife and I and we felt very comfortable. If the numbers, which would be all ballpark, seem reasonable, then we will pursuse it. However, if its beyond our budget, we'll look for a bigger house.
Thanks again everyone.
Jeff |
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| BigDog |
quote:
Originally posted by jswift2000
The builder that came over really impressed my wife and I and we felt very comfortable.
Jeff, I can't stress enough how important this is, having someone you feel comfortable with. This person will be part of your life for months, and it should be someone you like and trust.
Even with a contract, there is certain amount of trust. You're trusting him to do a good job for a fair price, and he's trusting that you will pay him. Sure, either party can sue, but nobody wants to do that. It's always better to have a good working relationship with your contractor.
And an experience contractor should be able to come up with a pretty good ballpark even before getting detailed plans. Make sure that the ballpark price is less than you can afford since there WILL be changes to the project. We put in our contract that there will be extra charges on a time and material basis for hidden conditions, such as pipes or electrical wires that need to be moved. Since we don't know what's behind the walls, we would rather charge out based on our actual costs than to put in a big margin to cover all contingencies. Asbestos removal will be extra, as well as any requirements by public bodies for upgrading utilities and such.
Repeat after me: It will take longer and cost more than I think it will.
Mrs. BigDog |
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| BlueStreak |
Jeff,
I'm almost through finishing my 2000 sq ft basement and I've been at it for 6 months now. Spent the evening tonight trimming windows and doors and I've still got a ways to go. I sub'd out cabinets/countertops and drywall, and I have done all the rest. Granted, exterior walls were up, but that was all I had to work from.
Being a general on a project isn't too bad, if you know what you're doing. With the kind of project you're taking about, I'd get a general. You'll be too busy making other decisions and let someone else line-up and fight with the bldg inspectors, return dented doors, wrong cabinets, etc.
I concur with the costs being tough on a sq ft basis. My Mother redid her kitchen and spent 20k+ on appliances alone! When you're talking granite, glass countertops in the bath with vessel sinks, fancy tile patterns, nice wood, etc. the price is going to go way up.
I can tell you there is a tremdous feeling when you see your work come together. Even if you do get a general, you can still do some of the work yourself. Be sure to discuss with the general first to be sure he's Ok with it (and you can meet permit requirements).
You may want to go look at permit requirements before you get too far. Things may have changed since the house was built and you may be in for some addtl. surprises. |
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| jswift2000 |
Thanks BlueStreak.
I was planning on doing some work myself, such as all trim work, tiling the kitchen floor, having a friend from work, who is a lic electrician, do the wiring for me, all painting, insulation, all demo, picking up all material, etc. All little things that can save some money.
As far as appliances go, we have a new refridgerator but we'll need a new stove and dishwasher. Since I love to cook, I would love to have a Viking 48" range with a nice hood but at a cost of about $7000 just for the stove, thats not going to happen. We figure appliances will run us around $5K-6K if we stay middle of the road.
Thanks again BlueStreak. This has been a very imformative post. |
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