| Fabvsix |
I just spoke to my salesman at my local dealership. He has been selling Acura's for many years, he is certifited etc.....He just got in some more information regarding the new RL soon to arrive in August.
They are:
300 HP V6 VTEC Engine
4WD VTM system (same as MDX, no hybrid combo)
Smart key entry
Sport shift on steering wheel and gate shifter
Power rear seats and final in quote
"Stunning Interior"
Can't wait ! :2: :2: :2: :eek: :2: :eek: :2: |
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| Gladiator |
| Wow!! great specs. |
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| Fabvsix |
| He had just recieved a list of things. He also mentioned aluminum parts ! It's sound VERY interesting. He said will remain same price as current 04"s. I didn't know that 04 RL's "all" come with navi's, including the new 05's. Sounds like alot of bang for the bucks. |
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| Gladiator |
quote:
Originally posted by Fabvsix
He had just recieved a list of things. He also mentioned aluminum parts ! It's sound VERY interesting. He said will remain same price as current 04"s. I didn't know that 04 RL's "all" come with navi's, including the new 05's. Sounds like alot of bang for the bucks.
sure... they have to win back consumers that went with the LS430, S series, A8 and 750 since the RL was unchanged for so long. |
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| GDTRFB |
How about a six speed manual transmission like the TL?
If that was available, I would be highly interested. |
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| sushix |
Possible V8 for the US US RL w/ 320 horsepower?
Translation from Japanes website:
Mechanical 4WD loading? Next term legend the BMW5 series is the target!
Scoop information of next term legend, was published to the HA2 month number. So far, as for legend, as for the information such as V8 theory and FR theory the stupor was continued, but according to HA, ' the next term legend which FMC is done with FF based full-time 4WD which does not have the center diff., seems that becomes super handling machine of wonder even in September of 04. Decisively the target becomes the BMW5 series. The 4WD system of the new development which becomes that air, the tower 載 "VTM - 4" and, was the concept car of show exhibition in MDX, you call the combination the ATTS + hybrid 4WD of "dual note". Because of this, 4 wheels are integrated are controlled, as for the limit of cornering call the expectation which becomes something which is a match to the worldwide prominent sport car. Inside the company HONDA this "S - AWD (sport all wheel drive) with it calls, it seems. In this being frightened drive system, new development 3. 5L V6 i - VTEC is loaded, the North American specification becomes 300PS. The safety equipment which about the equipment and becomes テイスト which the luxury car seems, in the accord it is preceded is adopted are adopted probably will be. Furthermore the �� night vision � ≠ ﾆ which can be called the evolution edition of HID you say, also technology of the advancement where lighting angle changes according to the position of a vessel's helm is included. It appeared always with advanced mechanism, "legend". It may become the kind of appearance which this time oh with surprises the user being, you can call expectation large.
2003/01/12 15:17:10
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320PS ラクラク comes out with V8 and 4L! The target is BMW & セルシオ
In the American market the rec suspension (セルシオ) in order to chase, the next term legend which adopts the layout system, V8 and FR. 2001 it approached the debut gradually, but this new legend is different from successive legend rather.
If セルシオ benz, as for the next term legend which HONDA aims BMW type. You say that the unit which is loaded becomes the sport type of V8, in the American specification generates 320PS easily.
This super legend occupies important position even in the sense that HONDA sedan counterattack is forecast.
*Note: Legend is Japanese RL/PS is same as horsepower
Original source |
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| roadman |
| I was given a RL as a loaner by Acura on one of TL-S tranny replacement visits and the RL is a very nice car. It kind or reminds me a little of a Cadillac DeVille. |
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| CountDrAcura |
| Here's the spy pix |
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| CountDrAcura |
| Here's the rear shot... it's a bit alarming. |
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| renov8r |
...or else it makes the BMW "Bangle butt" look stylish!?!
Otherwise, it looks pretty good. The scoop on the Japanese site sounds pretty much inline with the "sale'g uy line".
I wonder what kinddd of MPG they will get with 300HP???
Aerodynamics should be much improved, and I'm sure that AL is not just becuase it sounds cool, but becuase they have to trim pounds to keep that thing from being a guzzler.
It is REALLY GEAT NEWS to think that that the VTM can handle 300HP and that Acura will continue to at least try and "out sport" Lexus and Infiniti... |
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| Dale MDX |
| Looking carefully at those pictures, the real front and back ends are covered up. Check out the hood lines, and part way back on the fenders, you can see a vertical line. There are well designed and body-colored covers there, much more elaborate than the usual bra or taped over body. Also look at the back section of the rear door window. It looks covered as well. |
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| jswift2000 |
| I dont think Honda is going to screw up the Acura RL this time - theyve had three nice winners so far - TSX, TL and MDX. If Honda does a really great job with the RL, then Lexus could have some competition. However, I see one of Honda's biggest marketing hurdles is having customers that are looking for a Lexus LS series head to the Acura dealership to see the RL. |
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| wmquan |
... at least based on the information so far.
The new RL still doesn't stack up well against Lexus, MB, and BMW. The additional power is welcome but no one's going to take it seriously until it gets a V8 with a smoother powerband. 300 horsepower sounds great but I bet it'll be way up the curve.
Adding in VTM-4 is a laughable counter to RWD luxury sedans, let alone the AWD luxury sedans. VTM-4 is, currently, just a FWD-biased system that occasionally powers the rear. It doesn't give RWD handling characteristics, nor does it provide what AWD gives Audis, BMW's, and MB's. That is, unless Honda flips around the VTM-4, like Infiniti has with the G35x. Their system is a lot like VTM-4 in reverse -- most of the time, 100% of the power goes to the rears, and power goes to the front only on occasion, or when their version of a "lock" is made.
Realistically, I bet the new RL is positioned as a bigger, fancier TL, priced extremely below a Lexus LS430, an MB E-class, etc. At that price point, it's a nice car, and a very good value. But it doesn't really bring Acura into the same territory as Lexus. It doesn't even compete well with the upcoming new Lexus GS. |
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| saloveku |
| How does fit and finish of the RL compare with the MDX? If it is of the same quality of the MDX, the vehicle can't compete with BMWs and Lexus of this world. |
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| CountDrAcura |
| I got this one from the Acura-TL.com site... |
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| saloveku |
| That sure likes a Honda grille! |
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| Captain MDX |
| From the spy photo it looks like a Maxima but the pic from TL.com looks like a VW Phaeton. Don't you agree?? |
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| saloveku |
here are some details posted on another web site:
Here's an updated summary:
300HP 3.5L V-6
AWD (VTM4)
Aluminum body parts, including hood, roof, trunklid
Sized larger than 5-series/E-class, but smaller than 7-series/S-class. Perhaps to be positioned against Lexus GS or Infiniti M45.
"Smartkey" for door, ignition, and trunk
Sportshift with steering wheel mounted "paddle" controls
Adaptive headlights (move with the steering)
Adaptive cruise control
Power rear seats
"Stunning" interior
We've also received the following information regarding the available colors and accessories:
Exterior Colors: Desert Mist, Deep Blue, Meteor Silver, Ruby Royal Red, Medium Silver, Silver Metallic, Premium White,
Graphite Pearl, Nighthawk Black.
Interior Colors: Black, Grey, Beige.
Available Accessories: All Season mats front and rear, trunk net and tray, wood steering wheel and shift knob, back up sensors, gold emblems, door visors, nose mask, color matched splash gaurds, rear deck lid spoiler, +1 chrome look wheels, and A-SPEC (wheels, tires +1, suspension, and deck lid spoiler). " |
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| Blackura |
quote:
Originally posted by Captain MDX
From the spy photo it looks like a Maxima but the pic from TL.com looks like a VW Phaeton. Don't you agree??
Yes, Captain! My instant reaction was "Phaeton" with Acura grille and TL side groove.
All in all, I have to say I really like it so far. I just hope there's no Bose inside to ruin it. |
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| The X-men |
| If it is anything like the TL, it will be a sure winner. A 300 HP V6 production car, that is truely amazing. Adding the VTM will greatly improve handling and winter driving. |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by The X-men
If it is anything like the TL, it will be a sure winner. A 300 HP V6 production car, that is truely amazing. Adding the VTM will greatly improve handling and winter driving.
I think it'll be a winner too, just not what it takes to really go up against Lexus (and I don't think that Acura really wants to go there anyway).
However, I'm afraid that adding VTM-4 will NOT "greatly improve handling." At least not with the current implementation of VTM-4. VTM-4 doesn't power the rears in most cornering unless there is slippage. Unlike true AWD sport sedans where all four wheels get power all the time (e.g. Audi quattro, MB 4matic, BMW's system, etc.).
That said, adding VTM-4 will definitely help with the winter driving, as you said. |
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| Dale MDX |
quote:
Originally posted by Blackura
I just hope there's no Bose inside to ruin it.
The TL went with Panasonic for the sound system. It's 5.1 DVD Audio surround sound, and is getting good reviews. I would expect the RL to have a sound system that is at least equal to the TL's. |
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| Blackura |
quote:
Originally posted by Dale MDX
I would expect the RL to have a sound system that is at least equal to the TL's.
Agreed. But then, I'd have hoped that the $40k MDX would have a better system than a $33k TL too. <sigh> |
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| The X-men |
quote:
Originally posted by wmquan
I think it'll be a winner too, just not what it takes to really go up against Lexus (and I don't think that Acura really wants to go there anyway).
However, I'm afraid that adding VTM-4 will NOT "greatly improve handling." At least not with the current implementation of VTM-4. VTM-4 doesn't power the rears in most cornering unless there is slippage. Unlike true AWD sport sedans where all four wheels get power all the time (e.g. Audi quattro, MB 4matic, BMW's system, etc.).
That said, adding VTM-4 will definitely help with the winter driving, as you said.
I don't think Acura wants to go up against the LS430. The RL at about 2/3 of the price is a no brainer for most people, unless one has money to burn. I believe the RL with the VTM system will be more attractive to buyers. The VTM-4 is mostly use for foul weather, but can also help with traction during accelaration. With that said, I don't think most RL drivers are into cornering at high speed. IMHO, AWD can mean many thing, saying that the VTM-4 system is not a true AWD system is just not correct in my opinion. |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by The X-men
I don't think Acura wants to go up against the LS430. The RL at about 2/3 of the price is a no brainer for most people, unless one has money to burn. I believe the RL with the VTM system will be more attractive to buyers. The VTM-4 is mostly use for foul weather, but can also help with traction during accelaration. With that said, I don't think most RL drivers are into cornering at high speed. IMHO, AWD can mean many thing, saying that the VTM-4 system is not a true AWD system is just not correct in my opinion.
Oh, I didn't mean that VTM-4 isn't a true AWD system. I said adding VTM-4 (at least in current form) doesn't make the RL a true AWD sports sedan. There is a significant difference here.
Anyway, I don't disagree about the VTM-4 helping the RL in foul weather. My main point was that it won't "greatly improve handling" as you said in a previous post, and haven't countered in the last one. |
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| Dale MDX |
quote:
Originally posted by Blackura
Agreed. But then, I'd have hoped that the $40k MDX would have a better system than a $33k TL too. <sigh>
That would be fair, except the TL is a 3 years newer design. Manufacturers are continually upgrading their audio equipment in new designs. The next MDX may very well out-do the TL.
There's also the perceived market to consider. Acura may see the MDX as more of a family vehicle where the owners don't care as much about the sound system, and care more about entertaining the kids. After all, the MDX now offers RES, which could have been a TL option, but Acura decided the TL market wouldn't want that. |
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| The X-men |
| Anybody know the new price of the RL? If it stays within a few % of the old price range of low $40000, it will be a much better buy than the MDX IMO. |
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| Blackura |
quote:
Originally posted by Dale MDX
That would be fair, except the TL is a 3 years newer design. Manufacturers are continually upgrading their audio equipment in new designs. The next MDX may very well out-do the TL.
True, Dale. But the 03 MDX got an entire new engine/transmission. The 04 got lots of interior goodies and clear tail lights. Either would have been a good time to switch the audio, I'd think. If the guys on this forum can upgrade a stereo, certainly Acura can as well.
quote:
Originally posted by Dale MDX
There's also the perceived market to consider. Acura may see the MDX as more of a family vehicle where the owners don't care as much about the sound system, and care more about entertaining the kids. After all, the MDX now offers RES, which could have been a TL option, but Acura decided the TL market wouldn't want that.
You bring up a very good point, and I'd have to agree, Dale. It's all about marketing to the target consumer, isn't it. I guess I see the MDX target consumer a bit differently than they do. I see the MDX as a near luxury SUV. Maybe they see it as an AWD minivan alternative? They see floor wax. I see dessert topping. (Tastes great... and look at that shine!) :)
Either way, I think the new RL as it's described here is a winner. Sure, perhaps Acura will one day wow us all with a GS/LS 430 killer at $60k+, or maybe even a Maybach/Bentley killer at $300k... but for a $45k car this RL looks like the one to beat. |
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| pelucidor |
This new RL will be nicely positioned between the new $40k Lexus GS300 (3.0 245HP V6 with AWD) and the new $50k Lexus GS430 (4.3 300HP V8 with RWD). It has the V6 and AWD of the lower model Lexus and the power and (hopefully) luxury of the higher model. A similar case could the RL to slot between the upcoming Infiniti M35 and M45 (Fuga concept).
But this RL is certainly not an LS430 or S-class Mercedes competitor. |
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| Fabvsix |
| My reliable resource, read where it stated "will be between the S-Class and E-Class MB.......They didn't mention Lexus.:rolleyes: |
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| vicpai |
quote:
Originally posted by saloveku
How does fit and finish of the RL compare with the MDX? If it is of the same quality of the MDX, the vehicle can't compete with BMWs and Lexus of this world.
.....is far superior to the MDX. Up to now before the new TSX and '04TL, the quality of materials used have been very ordinary and fit and finish just "average" (the only exceptions being the original Legend and, of course, the aforementioned RL, both of which have always had impeccable fit and finish as well as high quality materials - go figure :rolleyes: )
......They seem to have finally realized that this sort of "cheaping out" is not going to cut it anymore if they are to truly make a presence as a "high-end" division, regardless of the model. So starting with the TSX Acura seems to have made great strides in this direction. The interior quality of the new TSX and the new '04 TL has improved tremendously (actually the new '03 Accord was the first to start this trend!! ) .....and the good news is that they are no longer short changing customers with crappy audio systems mascarading as so called high end premium systems, as is sadly the case with the Bose system in the MDX :rolleyes: |
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| jswift2000 |
| I do wonder where Honda is going with the RL? Are they really going to compete with the E Class? If they did, would they win? I truly believe that Honda makes one of the best cars out there and the fit and finish, as mentioned earlier, was outstanding in the older legend models (I had a 1989 Legend L and it was a rocket ship - the best car I have ever owened). Honda needs to come back to the top with superior fit and finish, which seems to be happening. If Honda can come up with an E-Class/5 Series/GS Series killer, it would do wonders for the Acura brand. Acura/Honda has come up with three winners in a row - mdx, tsx and tl. Lets see if they can do it again a fourth time around. |
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| The X-men |
quote:
Originally posted by jswift2000
I truly believe that Honda makes one of the best cars out there and the fit and finish,
In my opinion, Honda make the best engine in the world in its price range, but the fit and finish is not even top ten in my book. |
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| Fabvsix |
| Yes, the japanese are known for "stretching" steel the best ! Ever wonder why wise folks don't buy Japanese/China/Tawain tools ? LMAO.......because they are KNOWN for stretching the hell out of steel ! Perhaps "Snap-On" should build cars ! :p :p :) |
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| BLACK-BLING-MDX |
| something is covering up the REAL front... |
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| The X-men |
quote:
Originally posted by Fabvsix
Yes, the japanese are known for "stretching" steel the best ! Ever wonder why wise folks don't buy Japanese/China/Tawain tools ? LMAO.......because they are KNOWN for stretching the hell out of steel ! Perhaps "Snap-On" should build cars ! :p :p :)
Snap on does build cars, they are call Jeeps. Their body panels are thicker than most others, but is that the way to go? It will add alot of weight to a car, or is the dent resistant body panels like the ones in Saturn the way to go? |
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| jswift2000 |
quote:
Originally posted by The X-men
In my opinion, Honda make the best engine in the world in its price range, but the fit and finish is not even top ten in my book.
True... they rule the engine world and i'm always amazed of how much power they can get out of a V6 or a 4CYL. As for fit and finish, the hondas/acura of the late 80's/early 90's had great fit and finish but I agree they have lagged a bit recently. Acura should take some lessons from Lexus on what fit and finish is.
The front is obscrued in the photos but I would bet it will resemble the TSX/TL/MDX style front with projector headlights and adaptive headlights. JMHO. |
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| phins2rt |
| Talked to my dealer today about the RL. He mentioned the new car should be unveiled around April 15th at the New York Auto Show! Can't wait to see pics of it. |
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| Fabvsix |
Here is the recent scoop !
Preliminary RL Info: New "Super Handling AWD" System announced
Date: March 31, 2004 23:44
Submitted by: Jeff
Source: Honda PR
Credibility Rating: 10
The following is the press release from Honda's world news site:
Honda Develops World痴 First Super Handling All-Wheel-Drive Available this fall in the Acura RL (North America) and the Legend (Japan)
TOKYO - April 1, 2004 --- Honda Motor Co., Ltd. today announced the development of a new Super Handling All-Wheel-Drive system, called SH-AWD, that provides cornering performance that responds faithfully to driver input, and outstanding vehicle stability. A world痴 first, the SH-AWD system combines front-rear torque distribution control with independently regulated torque distribution to the left and right rear wheels to freely distribute the optimum amount of torque to all four wheels in accordance with driving conditions. The new system will be available this fall in the Acura RL (North America) and the Legend (Japan).
By monitoring driver input and driving conditions, the SH-AWD system determines the optimum front-rear and lateral (left-right) torque distribution. This information is then conveyed to the rear differential, where direct electromagnetic clutches continuously regulate and vary front-rear torque distribution between ratios of 30:70 and 70:30, and lateral torque distribution in the rear wheels between ratios of 100:0 and 0:100. Torque is used not only for propulsion, but for cornering as well, resulting in a significant enhancement in vehicle maneuverability.
The SH-AWD system is composed of sensors to detect steering angle, lateral g, and other vehicle information; an ECU; and the rear differential. The direct electromagnetic clutches inside the rear differential, another world痴 first, employ electromagnets to obtain precise control over the multi-plate clutches. Built-in search coils monitor the gaps between the electromagnets and the magnetic body to achieve precise, continuously variable torque regulation.
The rear differential is also equipped with a built-in acceleration device, yet another world痴 first. During cornering, the track of the outside rear wheel normally falls outside the average of the tracks of the front wheels. The outside rear wheel does not rotate fast enough to keep up with the front wheels, preventing efficient transmission of torque. To counteract this problem, the SH-AWD acceleration device alters the gearing to speed up the outside rear wheel痴 rotation relative to the front wheels. This reduces torque transmission losses and significantly improves vehicle maneuverability.
At Honda, driving pleasure is regarded as one of the most important factors in vehicle development. The new SH-AWD system features 吐eed-forward control, which utilizes the degree of driver input to determine appropriate torque distribution. This results in a super-neutral steering feel that responds with optimal faithfulness to the driver痴 handling of the steering wheel, realizing outstanding driving comfort and stability.
SH-AWD system (rear differential cutaway model)
Torque Distribution Regulation
Acceleration during cornering
Torque to the rear wheels is continuously varied to supply up to 100% to the outside wheel and 0% to the inside wheel. This creates an inward yaw moment, significantly improving vehicle handling.
*Yaw moment is turning torque relative to the vertical axis running through the vehicle痴 center of gravity.
Deceleration during cornering (throttle closed)
Torque to the outside rear wheel is freely varied to change from an inward to an outward yaw moment, ensuring vehicle stability at all times.
Straight-line driving
Front-rear torque distribution is regulated for optimum performance in accordance with the amount of torque produced. During rapid acceleration the load on the front wheels is reduced; conversely, rear-wheel load is reduced during cruising. The result is stable driving at all times
System Configuration
World痴 first direct electromagnetic clutch
An electromagnetic coil (electromagnet) attracts a magnetic body which, in turn, presses on the multi-plate clutch to facilitate torque transmission. A compact clutch unit, equipped with a planetary gear step-up mechanism to increase torque, permits transmission of substantial amounts of torque. A built-in search coil monitors the gap between the electromagnetic coil and the magnetic body. Current flow in the electromagnetic clutch is then adjusted to achieve highly precise torque regulation.
Acceleration Device
During straight-ahead driving, the twin-pinion planetary carrier spins in synchronization with the propeller shaft, causing the front and rear wheels to turn at the same speed. When the vehicle enters a curve, however, the planetary carrier is locked to the case, releasing the device from synchronization with the propeller shaft and accelerating the rotation speed of the rear wheels. A hydraulic actuator which turns the clutches on and off, and a one-way clutch are included in this compact configuration.
Sensors, ECU
The input of steering angle, lateral g, yaw rate, wheel speed and other sensors monitor driver input, vehicle demeanor, and driving conditions such that the SH-AWD ECU can calculate ideal torque distribution.
System Overview
Operational Flow
Rear Differential Unit
NOTE: It should be noted that though it carries a different name, this system is virtually identical to the VTM-4 system currently found in the MDX and Pilot. The differences lie largely in the programming of the logic to allow for the left to right rear torque biasing. |
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| Fabvsix |
| sketches of the new RL.......I hope these pictures show ! |
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| Fabvsix |
| WOW ! Looking good ! WOW :2: :2: :2: :6: :6: :18: |
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| X4ME |
| That looks awesome - let's hope they do actually deliver it close to what is seen in the pics. I might consider trading in my '04 X for this thing. |
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| aac |
| that looks so hot!!! ah man.......cant wait till i see this 1st hand |
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| aac |
| i have to say the rear looks much like the bmw 7 series.......but a lot smoother with the lines and shape |
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| Blackura |
To me, fortunately it does not look like the 7 series trunk disaster.
I see a cross between the rear of a Honda Accord 2-door coupe and an S-Class Benz. I think both of those cars have nice asses, so to speak, and this is like the best of both worlds. The front is also very nicely done. If the actual car looks half as good as the artist's beauty shots Fabvsix is showing us here, Acura finally has a real winner for it's sedan flagship.
Thanks for keeping us updated, Fabvsix! |
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| wmquan |
Okay, this is MUCH better than previous rumors. I said before that putting the current VTM-4 into an AWD RL would be laughable. But it sounds like Honda has evolved VTM-4 to this
SH-AWD and made improvements to try to make it more sporty to suit the character of the RL. The primary differences appear to be the potential of sending 70% of the torque to the rears, unlike the 50% max of VTM-4, and more aggressive distribution of torque between the left/right rear wheels, especially during cornering. So this is "son of VTM-4" or "VTM-4 gone sporty."
While I still don't think it's as good as some other AWD systems on sport sedans, I think it's a lot closer than the current VTM-4.
I wonder if the next-gen MDX will have SH-AWD? |
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| cardingtr |
| Here are the pictures courtesy of Temple of VTEC. |
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| cardingtr |
| system overview.. |
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| cardingtr |
| operational flow.. |
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| cardingtr |
| torque distribution.. |
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