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I was contacted by a mkt research co. to do a "focus group" sponsored by Acura to talk about the MDX. I will let everyone know how it goes --- has anyone else been invited to one?
Also, they have asked me to bring 1-2 things that "symbolize" to me how I feel when I drive the MDX. Any suggestions?
2hours and getting paid handsomely to talk about my Nighthawk Black Pearl/Saddle Touring MDX!
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Besides providing the usual positive feedback about the way the car drives and handles, I have one request:
If there are any high-ranking Acura personnel at that Focus Group, please make sure you mention how annoyed many of us MDX owners are with the side mirror designs. By that, I mean the way they retain water and cause hard water stains and/or droplets along our front doors hours after the MDX has been washed and dried.
Thanks, and good luck! |
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quote:
Originally posted by cr
...Also, they have asked me to bring 1-2 things that "symbolize" to me how I feel when I drive the MDX. Any suggestions?...!
I wonder if they asked mytonka to one of these sessions, what two things he would bring?:D:D:D |
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I have been to three of such focus groups. It is kind of interesting, because the marketing types that always seem to run these things are generally looking for ways to market what they have -- in other words, even though they ask for input on many different things (what is your favorite/least favorite view of the vehicle/feature/image) they are trying not to improve the product, but to figure out whether it makes to sense market, say a Maxima as vehicle for sports car fans or just as a sexier Camry...
If I really wanted to make a statement I would suggest bringing a plate glass window and giant shamrock, to symbolize the DEALERS and how incredibly LUCKY they are to have a vehicle that is in huge demand -- or maybe I'd bring a tape of Bobby Knight explaining "...when [a violent act] is inevitable it might just be better to try and lay down..." and a rainbow becuase the dealers certainly seem to have found the pot o' gold at its end... |
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| PLEASE mention that the MDX is NOT AS RELIABLE as a typical Honda product, and we would like to see a SIGNIFICANT improvement in this area. This may not be a big issue with someone who's moved into the MDX from a Ford, Chevy or other American garbage - To them the MDX WOULD seem reliable, but there are many LOYAL HONDA PEOPLE out here for whom RELIABILITY and QUALITY is one of the MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR in an automobile purchase, and have been "spoiled" by TYPICAL HONDA (and Japanese in general) reliability!! - That is just buy the car drive it..... change the oil....drive it, drive it and drive it.....forever. |
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Hey Vicky, How the hell is it not reliable? I haven't read one post from anyone who has broken down..?? I don't have leaky mirrors either...now if I could only fix the whining on this forum...:D
As for the focus group, you may want to say that as Acura Owners, we expect top notch service and quick resolution to problems that arise. I'm still 100% happy. |
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| I don't agree vicpai. I've had mine since January and haven't had a single problem. In fact, based on my MDX experience, I just bought a TL-S. I'm sorry you're disappointed. We must have had different expectations. |
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quote:
Originally posted by dancall
Hey Vicky, How the hell is it not reliable? I haven't read one post from anyone who has broken down..?? I don't have leaky mirrors either...now if I could only fix the whining on this forum...:D
As for the focus group, you may want to say that as Acura Owners, we expect top notch service and quick resolution to problems that arise. I'm still 100% happy.
Danny !
I've not had any personal experience with the MDX so I cannot say for sure. I'm only basing my concerns from what's posted in here, especially in the "problems" section, the posts in edmunds townhall, and most importantly the fact that the Honda Odyssey was rated by consumer reports as unreliable in it's first year and only "average" in it's second year of production - That was a real SHOCKER to me, because I've traditionally always touted Honda and Toyotas reliability to no end, and how American made vehicles are so bad etc. etc......I almost felt let down with the Odyssey episode......Besides, if you see "vip9's" posts you will see he's had a few problems, including almost stalling after parking on a slopey/curvey incline. The same thread has a few posts about "hard-starts". BTW, I must EMPHASIZE that I'm not implying the MDX is unreliable IN GENERAL,....only that it doesn't seem up to the typical LEVELS OF PERFECTION associated with Honda products. |
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quote:
Originally posted by BarryH
I don't agree vicpai. I've had mine since January and haven't had a single problem. In fact, based on my MDX experience, I just bought a TL-S. I'm sorry you're disappointed. We must have had different expectations.
I AM NOT DISSAPOINTED WITH THE MDX !!!......I don't even own one right now....Theoretically, I think it's a FANTASTIC vehicle and that's why I've put down a deposit for a 2002 model....I'm just concerned, after the reliability issues with the Honda Odyssey. I owned a 2000 TL too for 8 months and it was TOTALLY PROBLEM-FREE!! |
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quote:
Originally posted by vicpai
quote:
Originally posted by dancall
Hey Vicky, How the hell is it not reliable? I haven't read one post from anyone who has broken down..?? I don't have leaky mirrors either...now if I could only fix the whining on this forum...:D
As for the focus group, you may want to say that as Acura Owners, we expect top notch service and quick resolution to problems that arise. I'm still 100% happy.
Danny !
I've not had any personal experience with the MDX so I cannot say for sure. I'm only basing my concerns from what's posted in here, especially in the "problems" section, the posts in edmunds townhall, and most importantly the fact that the Honda Odyssey was rated by consumer reports as unreliable in it's first year and only "average" in it's second year of production - That was a real SHOCKER to me, because I've traditionally always touted Honda and Toyotas reliability to no end, and how American made vehicles are so bad etc. etc......I almost felt let down with the Odyssey episode......Besides, if you see "vip9's" posts you will see he's had a few problems, including almost stalling after parking on a slopey/curvey incline. The same thread has a few posts about "hard-starts". BTW, I must EMPHASIZE that I'm not implying the MDX is unreliable IN GENERAL,....only that it doesn't seem up to the typical LEVELS OF PERFECTION associated with Honda products.
No offense Vic, but that is my point. What is the most reliable vehicle on the road? Whatever it is I'm sure there are folks who are unhappy or even have somewhat serious issues. But you can not base reliability on "whining". Leaky mirrors? Wind Noise? There's even people complaining about the Nav system..that is ludricous. The best one yet was some poor fellow upset that there was no "safety" feature in the sun roof!!!! The only issue that I am seriusly tracking is the "Thud" as that could prove problematic; the rest are just complaints and whining that have nothing to do with reliability. You must take into consideration who you are getting the info from. My cup is always half full...it just makes life much easier to live that way! :D
When you finally get your MDX I hope you love it half as much as I love mine. |
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I'm with Danny, Vic. To describe the MDX as somehow unreliable based on the relatively minor problems posted here is kind of nutty. Sure, I get some dribbles of water on my front doors aftera forceful carwash, but at least I'm not getting my recalled vehicle towed to a dealership before the front end falls off (like some other SUVs).
I've taken part in a number of focus groups (mostly related to medical products/marketing). They usually consist of a moderator (working for a marketing company, in most cases). They'll probably go around and ask general questions and then narrow in on the focus of the group (e.g., a new marketing campaign or Acura program and what you think of it). It's likely to be more pointed and direct than a free-wheeling feedback session. The real important people will likely not be in the room but might be behind a one way mirror. Based on the responses of the group they might send out pieces of paper with questions to you.
Regardless of the format and intent, it would probably be a great place to advertise this forum. Although it's likely that the people-behind-the-glass are probably just marketing types and not the product development people we'd like to impress, it would probably be a great venue to plug this forum. Perhaps someone important at Honda will be led to our views and we'll more directly be a source of input. Have fun--I'm sure you'll have something interesting to report back (though they'll probably tell you not to do so). :) |
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| Tell them this SUV needs some protection!!!! I love my MDX but I'm afraid to take it any where. I saw a woman with one in a market parking lot both sides where scatched and dinged. Acura should really step up to the plate on this one. |
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1) Weeping mirrors
2) "thud"
3) side moulding
---
my picks
4) climate control system (too many buttons to push just to put on the vent)
5) Average sound from Bose system (plus 6 disc in dash does not do a random through all six discs!)
Those are the only negatives that I can think of,
On the other hand, my positives would go on for about 20 lines, most likely!
thanks,
CR |
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6 disc in dash does not do a random through all six discs
The disc has to be moved in the tray to locate to the laser's path - you'll notice there's a delay when you manually switch discs as the disc is moved in the tray... If there were a random mode between discs, it would take forever between songs as the disc was changed.
Rail |
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The lack of Side molding is one of the most blatant screw ups. The absence of door/wheel well protection defies common sense. Some of the other mechanical/structural stuff is important...but likely unforseen at the time of production. Molding was obvious. I saw a MB in the Costco lot...dings all over the place. Of course, some people will trash anything...but I'm spending big bucks on (painted) fender flares and some type of decent (painted) molding...because they didn't think of things like wheel well trim and side molding. I will always park in the back 40 anyway...but I hate to see fellow MDXers with needless door dings because they park like 'normal' people. :)
The other obvious design blunder is SEAT BELT CLIPS vs. CHEAP SELF MUTILATING PAINTED PILLARS. What were they thinking besides CHEAP?!?
Next...thin/flimsy windshield not to be confused with rock shield.
Dumb coin tray design...which I eventually fixed...but took two pen caps. I guess I wonder what goes on in the minds of quality control/design people when someone bounces in with an anal coin tray design mold? Were they on the way to lunch or something? "Hey...looks great to me?"...duh. Must have been the same person with the "PAINTED" seatbelt pillar idea. http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/show...p?threadid=1385
Otherwise...I love my MDX. :):)
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Moldings were certainly an unfortunate omission. And speaking of molding, my wife's A4 Avant has molding that is low in profile, about 2" wide and color matched... it looks awesome! And they have provided protection, as there are a couple of color stains from less than considerate folk.
My opinion on the focus group... they are likely looking for a few key features to use in their marketing efforts, once they have to market the MDX. I have to believe omissions and complaints will fall on deaf ears. And I'm and optimist ;-) |
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Regarding the discussion on reliability and quality.
You are ALL right. Many people view "reliability" as the vehicle being able to run -- start, go fast, go slow, etc. Build quality (rattles, shakes, squeaks, etc.) is usually considered outside of "reliability." However, Consumer Reports confuses the issue somewhat by lumping build quality into its reliability ratings.
That said, Honda/Acura vehicles are traditionally extremely reliable, both from the pure-running perspective, and from how Vic and Consumer Reports quote reliability. However, it's clear that the Honda Odyssey has been suffering from some quality control issues. It's still good, as evidenced by CR's "average" rating. However, it's not an "above average" or "well above average" score, which CR has assigned to the Accord, Civic, CR-V, Prelude, S2000, Integra, RL, and TL (the Passport doesn't do well, but it's an Isuzu). That's been a source of frustration to some Odyssey owners who have been genuinely surprised at experiencing more problems than they did when they had Civics or Accords. It's unfamiliar territory for them.
Obviously CR isn't the last word on this, but they're the same ones that bring up the MB ML ratings that MDX owners love to point out ;-)
That's what Vic means about reliability (/quality) that Honda/Acura buyers (and Toyota/Lexus buyers) have come to expect. We're really darn spoiled. It's not enough that the vehicles have to be fairly reliable and have good build quality, they have to be almost bullet-proof. Oh, on an Internet board there'll always be some folks with problems, but it's far and away above everything else.
Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus owners smile smugly when a European car owner brags about how the European manufacturer has come a long way, and that CR now gives their vehicles "average" or even "above average" reliablity. Heck, I was shocked when our previous Integra had transmission failure after 27k miles, and a complete failure of the HVAC system at 65k, though that's the luck of the draw (it's not like we pushed the vehicle hard, either). That's because I've been spoiled by great quality as well.
That's why the Odyssey has been a bit of a surprise. New design, more complex vehicle, different plant, etc. have all been suggested as the cause for the uncharacteristically "lower" reliability/quality scores.
Where's that leave the MDX? I don't know what the first year MDX score will eventually be. On Internet systems, problems are often magnified (though they are no less painful to the individuals or groups of individuals experiencing them). A concern about the MDX was that it was being built based loosely on the Odyssey, and at the same plant. Everyone hoped that the plant would put more quality in an Acura (over a Honda? hmmm). But then again, the MDX is a more complex vehicle. On the other hand, most of the problems that are more frequently reported are build and/or design quality issues (mirrors, thuds). I'm not sure if I've seen enough reports of stalls to think it's a real and current (and uncorrected) pattern, though it was a problem for the Odyssey.
I do suspect that the MDX will probably not earn the vaunted "well above average" score for its first year. It'll probably end up at above average or average. This is just my opinion, and we haven't had problems either (knock on shift knob). Hopefully for Vic and other prospective second year buyers, the second year will score a notch higher than the first. |
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William:
I didn't know your tranny died at 27K. Mine went over 150K w/o any real problems (though it had problems getting into overdrive near the end). My AC croaked at 140K. Older design I guess, since mine was the souped up Civic whereas yours was the first real full design.
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quote:
Originally posted by kenyee
William:
I didn't know your tranny died at 27K. Mine went over 150K w/o any real problems (though it had problems getting into overdrive near the end). My AC croaked at 140K. Older design I guess, since mine was the souped up Civic whereas yours was the first real full design.
Yes, afraid so. I've mentioned it a few times in the past on Edmunds when the subject of contrasting Honda/Acura overall reliability vs. individual experiences comes up (heck, there are lots of gripes on Edmunds about quality issues in the redesign of the Civic, that I think are too early to read into a vehicle that sells so many copies).
I think my problems were an isolated case, as CR's survey of '95 Integra tranny incidents is "well below average" (2.0% or less). In our case, we had noticed some slipping but weren't sure if it was the grade feature since there are a lot of hills around here. Then it just went out. Our AC was always on (I like cool, clean air, and the defogging feature is very useful in these humid parts), so maybe that contributed to it. The dealer didn't mess around, replacing the tranny with a new one under warranty.
One item folks should keep in mind is how good overall reliability is in newer vehicles, and how confusing it is to read CR scores. Each category is given the black to red solid or partial dots. But with 2000 vehicles, the "average" vehicle is now solid red for 14 out of 17 categories (less than 2% trouble spots). The remaining three categories are the half-red dots ("above average"), meaning 2% to 5% trouble spots. Those are electrical, integrity (squeaks, rattles, and leaks), and hardware (locks, windows, doors, etc.).
Thus, it's quite easy to have a vehicle that is above average or well above average in each individual category, but ends up scoring an overall "below average" because it doesn't have enough "well above averages!" Quite confusing and CR should probably revamp this to avoid confusion.
That's how the 2000 Odyssey (and the '99) end up scoring only average overall. The 2000 ended up only "average" in the "electrical" and "hardware" categories when vehicle averages were "above average". That actually put it toward the lower of the average range as compared to other 2000 vehicles.
I know it sounds like splitting hairs, but the other "true" Honda/Acura vehicles do better. That's why the Odyssey is good, but not as good as one could expect.
I had to bring the annual auto issue into work to explain to a co-worker how the system works (a totally rabid M-class fan; that's where I'm getting most of the overstated hype from ;-). He couldn't understand why the 2000's don't have a single "below average" or "well below average" yet still don't score well overall by CR's reasoning (FWIW). |
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You guys are probably right...the focus group will be after "marketing" ideas...So...you might have to add a positive spin on the deficits...and include features like:
Dual door dispensers automatically dispense mineral water after running through the special mirror purification system.
Windshield designed by gravel certified crafters and offer a 'multifaceted view" of the roadway.
Seat belt retractors designed to take a beating...and give one.
An automatic pothole and speedbump sensing thud...Offers a special "delayed warning" of road conditions.
Seats with more squeaks and loose screws than... well, we'll let MyTonka address that...
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When I briefly worked in marketing, I had no input into product design. It was more a matter of giving the public the impression that we were listening to them and could provide actual input to substantially address their complaints. And then to discover negative public perceptions and identify which ones were really threatening. Then find a way to counter them since there was no way even the product people could address their issues (in time, or ever).
That's why I don't work in marketing anymore!!
A lot of focus groups end up asking things like, "what about these statements would make you more interested in finding out more about this vehicle?" How would you go about finding that information? When you find that information, which of these would ... |
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For anyone who owns a multi disc changer, we all know that the cd must shuffle in and out of the laser's eye. Any six disc in the trunk worked that way, the one in your house, etc. etc. It just boggles my mind that they won't shuffle in and out in the dash mounted Bose/Pioneer (or whatever it is) unit. I indeed might as well have a single disc unit and shuffle on my own (sic).
***So, based on the previous replies, I guess I am supposed to argue reliability at my focus group? I will most certainly note that non-owners are quick to point out the MDX isn't reliable! ;-) |
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WMQUAN,
I understand the point you make about Build quality etc. I do think that is important for a vehicle. Maybe it's not exactly "reliability" but it is important.
However, I quit reading consumer reports when they ranked bicyles one year. The one that rolled down a hill the furthest without pedaling was ranked "the Best". I laughed so hard I hurt myself. I really wish I saved that issue as it has to be the ultimate in "Trash Journalism" I have ever read..!!
So far my reliability and Build quality are excellent! |
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quote:
Originally posted by dancall
However, I quit reading consumer reports when they ranked bicyles one year. The one that rolled down a hill the furthest without pedaling was ranked "the Best". I laughed so hard I hurt myself. I really wish I saved that issue as it has to be the ultimate in "Trash Journalism" I have ever read..!!
Yep, Consumer Reports is far from perfect. I still think they're better at measuring certain items than other publications, but yes, that bike story is funny. Maybe they were thinking of rolling the bike down Haleakala volcano in Maui or something.
I think their evaluations of reliability/build quality in vehicles is about as good as there is out there. Not perfect, but good. There are complaints about how the survey forms don't let one get past a certain level of detail, but I think that statistically, it all evens out. However, one should balance what they say with actual experiences that others share, JD Power (which I consider significantly less reliable than CR), and other sources.
They've been accused of a pro-Japanese car slant, but those vehicles have tended to simply be more reliable. Plus right now their top-rated family sedan is a VW Passat, and their top-rated luxury car an MB E-class. |
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| I recall one of CRs first (if not The first) report ever done on pocket calculators in the mid-seventies. They downgraded all multi-funtion calculators below the average 4-banger (old calculator nuts can smile now) because the multi-function ones had a "confusing" shift key to access many of the additional functions. CR dispised the shift key as a nusance that would cause many to make errors. |
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quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
I recall one of CRs first (if not The first) report ever done on pocket calculators in the mid-seventies. They downgraded all multi-funtion calculators below the average 4-banger (old calculator nuts can smile now) because the multi-function ones had a "confusing" shift key to access many of the additional functions. CR dispised the shift key as a nusance that would cause many to make errors.
Maybe I'm missing something, but the "shift" key on a lot of little keyboards (e.g. email pagers, cell phones) sure confuse the hell out of me. Maybe I just can't handle the new technology. Reminds me of a prototype BMW is showing where a lot of vehicle functions are controlled through a single ball-knob. Like I'd want to try to point my "mouse" while driving 70mph ... |
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A pocket calculator only has so many buttons. Any more and we are no longer talking pocket. A scientific calculator has far more functions than available keys, hence the shift key to access the functions printed above the buttons. A limited function calculator (i.e. 4-Banger + - x /) has no need for a shift key.
As a college science/engineering major I found it absurd that a scientific calcular would be down rated because it had scientific functions on it! I for one found very little use for the higher rated 4-Bangers. |
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