| Warzau |
Ohhh boy!!!2001 and 2002 Acura MDX sport-utility vehicles
"Customer mailings will begin in May and should be completed by September."
Till we get them are we supposed to hold our breath and hope for the best? |
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| TheWorm |
| Hmmm...note that this problem of "gear breakage" or chipped gear teeth is different than the infamous CL/TL tranny design issues, which Honda indicated was due primarily to the 3rd clutch pack and surface roughness issues (and lubrication as a secondary component). |
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| perk |
A very wise move by Honda! I think the transmission failures on this site have caused lots of potential and exisiting customers far too much concern. Interesting because Consumer Reports 2004 yearly survey rates the 2001 and 2002 MDX transmission as much better than average. As such, it appears that owners believe the transmission is superb. Curious.
Also, since the recall only applies to 2001 and 2002 MDXs, I have to assume that Honda fixed the transmision defect so that it's no longer present in the newly redesigned 2003-- transmission. Yet, I distinctly remember folks reporting on this site that several 2003 and 2004 transmissions have failed. Makes me wonder whether perhaps the whole situation applied to only a few random vehicles and that the transmission problem wasn't really a systemic defect. |
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| Warzau |
quote:
Originally posted by perk
Also, since the recall only applies to 2001 and 2003 MDXs,.
Don't you mean 01 and 02. |
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| srpbep |
Systemic defect? I think that the answer is yes:
If I read the recall announcement correctly, the PROBLEM is oil [trans fluid] flow, not really a faulty gear. Lack of oil flow does not bleed off heat fast enough which is apparently the cause of the subsequent failure. The physical exam done during the recall specifies that the tech will look for "discoloration of the gear indicating heat damage".
Interestingly, lack of oil flow appears to be a major cause of the TL/CL tranny problems. I suspect now that the Honda design calcs underestimated the amount of fluid flow needed for proper cooling. If this is true, then this would help explain why Honda is now having tranny problems with many of their transmissions when they used to build an automatic tranny that was good for 200,000+ miles with proper maintenance (trany fluid changes). |
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| hondacuraworld |
From the source:
Today, Honda Motor Co. Ltd. announced to NHTSA its intention to recall selected 2001-02 MDXs.
Basic problem: Certain operating conditions can result in heat build-up between the countershaft and secondary shaft gears in the automatic transmission. Lacking sufficient oil flow to dissipate heat, prolonged operation under these conditions can eventually result in decreased material strength. In higher mileage vehicles, this can result in gear tooth chipping or, in very rare cases, gear breakage can occur.
In most cases, transmission noice will indicate a problem, however it is possible for the transmission to become locked without warning. A locked transmission could result in a crash.
Stop-sale order: All 2001-02 MDXs in unsold vehicle inventory are affected by this recall. These vehicles cannot be sold or leased with a known defect.
Repair strategy: Vehicles with less than 15,000 miles are at no risk for gear damage. These vehicles will simply need to have an Oil Jet Kit installed - no inspection is needed. For all other vehicles, the technician will do a visual and photographic inspection of the secondary shaft 2nd gear through the speed sensor hole. If the gear shows signs of heat discoloration, the transmission will be replaced. If not, an Oil Jet Kit will be installed to provide additional lubrication to the 2nd gear.
Support materials: American Honda will post its initial Acura Service Bulletin with a Video Link and Strategy Letter on the network the evening of April 23, 2004.
Tool and Parts Supply: On April 21, 2004, American Honda will FedEx every Acura dealership a Photographic Inspection Tool Kit. On April 23, American Honda Parts Division will FedEx a small supply of Oil Jet Kits. Additional supplies of Oill Jet Kits will be shipped on April 29, 2004.
Customer notification: Notifications will be mailed to all known owners over a period of time. We plan on mailing notification letters to owners of the oldest vehicles first, starting around May 12, 2004.
American Honda explains that this is an extremely rare occurrance and asks that you wait for your mailing to schedule a repair. At this time, the dealers do not have the parts nor the tools nor the service procedure outlines to conduct these repairs, until on or after April 23. |
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| Robyjo |
quote:
Originally posted by nwaring
It just reminded me why I sign onto this site everyday.
You read my mind as I read Tim's post...good news for us, hopefully... |
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| fatherlu |
| Assuming Honda knew of the defects after 2002 and began upgrading the 03's and 04's, why did it take them this long to let the 01's and 02's know? During all that time, I'm sure they denied everything and made the affected customers feel like it was their fault for driving improperly. Honda's actions are not out of goodwill, rather, it is because they can't hide the problem any longer and are afraid of lawsuits if someone actually dies from their defects. |
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| Warzau |
| Tim is the man, thanks. |
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| Greg P |
Yeah, but why aren't they extending the warranty on the transmission? I think they at least owe us that.
The only way I'm going to feel confident is if they would give us a 100K mile warranty on the tranny.
Maybe we have to start lobbying for that! |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by fatherlu
Assuming Honda knew of the defects after 2002 and began upgrading the 03's and 04's, why did it take them this long to let the 01's and 02's know? During all that time, I'm sure they denied everything and made the affected customers feel like it was their fault for driving improperly. Honda's actions are not out of goodwill, rather, it is because they can't hide the problem any longer and are afraid of lawsuits if someone actually dies from their defects.
Do you know the redesign starting with the 03 models was to address the problem(s) as described in this latest potential recall?
I do know the redesign was to make the transmission lighter and more compact. Elimination of the oil starvation problem may have been a consequence of that redesign. But not necessarily the reason for it. |
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| fatherlu |
Just working on "assumptions." The only people that really know for sure at this time will be Honda. I suspect that they knew of the transmission problems (though cannot prove it) as it seems to have existed in other Honda models also.
From what I know of recalls in general. It usually takes several years from the point of reasonable knowledge of the potential defects to the point of the recall. During this time, they weigh the cost benefit based on costs, consumer complaints, engineering recommendations, governmental inquiries (as result of the complaints reaching a govt. department) and preliminary lawsuits (dropped and/or settled but not yet tried to verdict). Most of the manufacturer defect cases reveal that corporate headquarters knew of the potential defects but economics determined if it was worth a recall or was minor enough to settle out of court in the event of a few injuries.
People don't have to believe this if they don't want to--I don't care--it's not my injuries. Believe that Honda is a godly corporation always looking out for our interests if it will make them feel better. |
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| srpbep |
fatherlu,
If you run across people who "Believe that Honda is a godly corporation always looking out for our interests", then simply point them at the NHTSA site and the 1,000+ page document filed by Honda. In this document are "transcripts" of Honda communication with its customers regarding tranny problems. As you read these, please note that the "stuff" is what Honda personnel chose to record. As this stuff is bad enough (pretty rotten in many cases), imagine what the "real conversations" looked like.
It wouldn't surprise me if there was a conversation with a CL owner on his 3rd tranny that read something like:
Customer: Take this ^%$^ and either give me a car that works or give me my money back.
Honda: Gee, we are sorry you feel that way. The periodic replacement of transmissions in your model is a "characteristic of the vehicle". We underestimated the desire for replacement transmissions and this has resulted in a 90 day backlog on units. Glad we could provide you with superior customer service.
Sorry ... simply could not help myself ... :eek: |
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| DaleB |
The 'truth' may lie between both your assumptions.
I tend to believe that Honda did not know enough about the 01 or 02 problem when they were designing for the 03+ . Considering the time involved in design concept and then implementation. I am sure the design started before the 02s completed production.
Now, they have sufficient data (we can hope) to identify a problem area in earlier models, and also a fix for it.
We know there are more recent models with failed transmissions but it appears to early to tell if the problem is the same as that documented for the earlier models.
One thing I believe we can agree on, is that they are doing 'something'. I think the timing is about right. Time will tell if the solution is the right one. |
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| msu79gt82 |
| Even happier trading the '01 for the '04 :cool: :1: Looks like Honda/Acura is doing the right thing. |
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| Pauls MDX |
| I knew it was a matter of time for the formal recall to come out. My dealer has been telling me the MDX's for 01 and 02 have started to come in large numbers for transmission slipping in the 3rd gear. |
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| hammermdx |
Tim,
Thanks for sharing the details, anyone know what's involved to install the oil jet kit. Also, do you think I should remove my Hidden Hitch when I bring it in for this service? I only have 13.5K miles on it right now. I agree with the previous posts that Acura should also extend the warranty to 100K miles. |
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| Warzau |
I was trying to merge the threads and .org had a hiccup, so bad it inserted Tim official post in the middle, WTH????
Sorry Tim. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by hammermdx
Tim,
Thanks for sharing the details, anyone know what's involved to install the oil jet kit. Also, do you think I should remove my Hidden Hitch when I bring it in for this service? I only have 13.5K miles on it right now. I agree with the previous posts that Acura should also extend the warranty to 100K miles.
I would not remove it. If your tranny meets the conditions of the recall, it needs to treated accordingly.
If you came in complaining about your transmission, that MIGHT be a different thing IMHO. |
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| srpbep |
quote:
Pauls MDX wrote:
I knew it was a matter of time for the formal recall to come out. My dealer has been telling me the MDX's for 01 and 02 have started to come in large numbers for transmission slipping in the 3rd gear.
Pauls MDX,
Could you please provide a little more information?
** The current problem is oil flow for the 2nd gear.
** Your info fr your dealer appears to address a different problem = 3rd gear [clutch pak]. This is an older KNOWN problem most pronounced in the TL/CL. Some [including me] suspect that the MDX tranny suffers from this this ill as well as the newly revealed problem.
From what I have read, the new recall does NOT address the 3rd gear problem. It sounds like the recall is being made because it poses a measurable safety issue. NHTSA did not find the 3rd gear problem to be a "safety issue", thus no recall.
I truly suspect that the recall is not going to fix anything EXCEPT the 2nd gear issue. Honda has done a cost analysis on the 3rd gear issue and found the cost per vehicle sold to be low, thus they are addressing 3rd gear problems only as they arise [under warranty]. |
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| remery |
Hmmm,
I wonder if the sluggishness shifting into 5th gear I have noticed over the past few months might be due in part to this. No funny noises yet but I will be listening. |
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| hockeyplayer |
| Will any of this affect resale??? It had better not or.....:cursin: |
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| slash007 |
| I took my 01 mdx in today for whining noise when accelerating after 30mph and just found out that acura is going to replace the tranny. my mdx has 45k miles on it. My question is, should I have them wait untill the effective date of the latest announcement? |
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| srpbep |
slash007,
1st ... I would like to congratulate you. Much better to have the tranny fail at 45,000 than at 55,000. This way, you have no warranty/coverage issue.
2nd ... I would ask the dealer to find out whether the remanufactured tranny that they will be installing has "all the known fixes INCLUDING the 2nd gear oil flow issue"? If not, I would not drive the X with the new tranny until the fix was installed. My understanding is that the heat problems cause "deterioration" which eventually manifests itself in failure. I wouldn't want my "new" tranny to have any unnecessary deterioriation.
Just MHO. |
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| srpbep |
quote:
Hockeyplayer wrote:
Will any of this affect resale??? It had better not or.....
Well, guess the tranny problems WILL have one of the following 3 effects:
1 = Positive Effect = Value of used MDX goes up. I personally find this hard to believe.
2 = No Signicant Effect = IMO, this is the best that can be hoped for. That said, this is your upside and I would not take this to the bank.
3 = Negative Effect = This is quite possible. As the MDXs get older, the number of failed trannys will most certainly go up. What none of us know (if you do, please let me know) is how many will be failing. The new and expanding information highway, led by the www, starts to work against current owners at this point.
Many people purchasing used vehicles are concerned about long term reliability. A bad engine design and bad tranny design are about the 2 worst issues I can think of. Would you knowingly buy a used vehicle if it had a reputation for eating engines or transmissions? If you would buy it, would you pay "a premium price" for it? |
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| Pauls MDX |
Does Acura want to install the oil jet kits on all 2001-2002 vehicles? Or only want to install the kits if they see evidence of problem? I'm still a little confused? I wonder also would my re-built still need the oil jet kit? or is it already installed?
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: |
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| srpbep |
Pauls MDX,
Re the recall: As I read it, Acura will install the jet kits (whatever they are) in all trannys. If the tranny shows "gear heat damage or worse", Acura claims that the tranny will be replaced. I suspect that the purpose of the pics is to enable Acura to see just how bad the gear is compromised before telling the dealer to replace the tranny (e.g. kinda/sorta heat damaged, then leave the tranny in and let's see what happens). If my hunch is correct, bet you can't get a copy of the picture!
Re Your "rebuilt tranny": 1st, you've just hurt Acura's feelings. According to Acura, you do NOT have a re-built tranny, you have a remanufactured tranny. Regarding your current reman tranny, guess it depends on when it was built (notice I didn't say re-built -- I am learning!!). I suspect that Acura has been updating the remans for a while. I suspect that the rest of us with the orig trannys are only getting the update beceause it has been identified as a safety issue (read this: NHTSA probably had something to do with it, issue probably surfaced in the CL/TL/Accord... tranny investigation).
Yes, I am a skeptic!! |
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| hammermdx |
Here's how I read it:
1. If there is less than 15K miles the oil jet gets installed.
2. More than 15K miles they do the visual and photo review, if there is damage a new tranny goes in. No damage, then the oil jet goes in.
Regarding your tranny, that's a good question, I would think they should check to see if the oil jet has already been included in yours. |
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| hammermdx |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
I would not remove it. If your tranny meets the conditions of the recall, it needs to treated accordingly.
If you came in complaining about your transmission, that MIGHT be a different thing IMHO.
Thanks Dale! |
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| Warzau |
| Regardless I would ask the service advisor to show me what they did. |
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| Warzau |
quote:
Originally posted by Pauls MDX
Does Acura want to install the oil jet kits on all 2001-2002 vehicles? Or only want to install the kits if they see evidence of problem? I'm still a little confused? I wonder also would my re-built still need the oil jet kit? or is it already installed?
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
Jet will be installed, regardless. What is at question is if after inspection if you will need a new trans. |
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| gnikoli |
| I've seen the question asked but have yet to find a definitive answer. What makes the 2003 tranny different as it relates to the recall? Was the design defect actually addressed or is it just a redesigned version that may or may not have solved the ATF flow issue? In other words, do they figure a different part number requires a new data set to support a recall or was the problem really solved in 2003 MDX transmissions? |
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| srpbep |
gnikoli,
The 2003 and up tranny is a new design, therefore, can not possibly have the EXACT SAME design problem because they are not the exact same trannys.
That said, Honda has been having tranny problems for several years now. In at least two cases, Honda has identified "insufficient oil flow" as a problem. That is most curious in and of iteself.
Who is to say what is going on with the new tranny? Only Honda has "reasonable" access to the information. That said, I doubt Honda will look at the issue unless they are motivated by tranny failures in the new design (if it ain't broke, why fix it). When/if they do look, don't expect them to publish the results on a web page for the world to see ... ain't gonna happen unless NHTSA happens to be in their face.
Hey, if I were running the business, can't say that I would do it differently ... |
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| HARDROCK |
| What about those of us who have tow packages installed with the transmission coolers? Do these "coolers" protect our vehicles from the heat this recall states is the problem? |
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| texrb |
quote:
Originally posted by hockeyplayer
Will any of this affect resale??? It had better not or.....:cursin:
It won't if Honda ups the warranty to 8yrs/100k miles. I had a 2001 RX300 that had the V6 engine "oil sludge" issue. I never had the problem and Lexus sent a letter to all owners extending the warranty to 8 yrs/100k miles (it may have been 80k miles). The value of the RX was not affected negatively. I chose to trade it in for an '04 RX330 for the upgraded features - not over a concern for the engine.
My trade in was well above average
Time will tell with the MDX. I suspect if there is a drop in resale it will be due more to discounting for new ones, than the tranny issue. I have 18 months left on a 48 month lease. If the value drops below residual, I'll just turn it in. |
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| srpbep |
HARDROCK,
Your cooler helps keep the tranny fluid from getting hot. Sounds like the problem here is that "low oil flow" is not removing the heat fast enough from one specific area of the tranny = 2nd gear.
From the sounds of it, the extra cooler is NOT any guarantee that you will not have any damage. Acura was not clear [at least in what I read] about what "operating conditions" result in damage.
But all I have done is apply logic based on what little I have read. I believe my observations to be reasonable. That said, this would not be the first time I was wrong. |
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| gnikoli |
| I know there is a Honda engineer out there somewhere who can say that it is either likely or unlikely that 2003 MDX trannies will suffer the same fate and why. Too bad that no company is open and honest enough to do that. Sure would help this customer feel better about present and future products. Yes, even could make the difference between buying another Acura or not. |
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| Warzau |
| cooler will help cooling the oil but if it doesnt reach that area, it wouldnt matter. |
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| jeffn |
FYI, Honda's world class quality..:-)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Honda Motor Co. is recalling nearly 652,000 sedans, minivans and sport utility vehicles because of a defect that allows drivers to remove the key from the ignition when the vehicle isn't in park.
The National Highway Safety Administration said Monday it has records of four injuries, 28 crashes and 169 complaints about the defect, which is caused by excessive wear in the ignition switch.
In many cases, drivers assumed their vehicles were in park because they were able to remove the key. In at least one case, a rolling SUV caused a multi-vehicle accident.
Affected vehicles are the 2002 CR-V SUV, the 1997-99 Acura CL and 1999 Acura TL sedans, the 1999 Odyssey minivan and the 1998-99 Accord sedan and coupe. A total of 651,989 vehicles are involved in the recall.
Honda says consumers should use the parking brake until the company repairs the vehicles.
This is the second time in a year that Honda has recalled the 2002 CR-V. In July, Honda recalled 247,019 CR-Vs because excessive corrosion was preventing the automatic transmission from shifting into park.
On the Net:
Honda - www.honda.com
NHTSA - www.nhtsa.dot.gov
Copyright 2003 by The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. |
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| hammermdx |
quote:
Originally posted by HARDROCK
What about those of us who have tow packages installed with the transmission coolers? Do these "coolers" protect our vehicles from the heat this recall states is the problem?
I would still think you need to have the jet installed since the fluid does not appear to be getting to the proper place within the tranny to keep it cool. |
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| hondacuraworld |
I don't think that anyone should jump to conclusions about resale values and such at this point. Remember, we can't say that we've seen anything close to "epidemic" numbers of trans replacements to this point.
The true test will be to see how many people will need them replaced AFTER inspection. Don't forget, dealers get paid and paid well for warranty work, so nobody is going to let a marginal transmission slide by. |
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| Warzau |
| I think we should start a thread once members have be recalled and then post out service record to state what was done. Then we can do a impromtu survey of how many needed a new tranny or not. |
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| superdave |
| I would think that everyone should just ask for a new tranny. The dealer shouldn't care and you would guarantee that you are starting from stratch with a new tranny and the jet pack. Visual inspections don't always catch problems. IMO, I'd prefer a whole new kit. On the flip side, it's so damn cold here in Toronto that I doubt the tranny has ever goten hot:2: |
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| srpbep |
superdave,
Ask all you want. Honda [Acura] is NOT going to replace the tranny unless they feel they have to. You can bet that each and every tranny that is replaced will need to be approved by the Honda corporate technical staff (think they are called TechLine).
While a dealer might want to replace all trannys for revenue as you suggest, you can bet that Honda will not and can not let that happen. If you doubt what I am saying, suggest you ask Tim about warranty work, approvals, etc.
Hey, it is only common sense .... |
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| TYP |
Does this mean I can race the loaner again?!
:2: |
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| hondacuraworld |
quote:
Originally posted by srpbep
superdave,
Ask all you want. Honda [Acura] is NOT going to replace the tranny unless they feel they have to. You can bet that each and every tranny that is replaced will need to be approved by the Honda corporate technical staff (think they are called TechLine).
While a dealer might want to replace all trannys for revenue as you suggest, you can bet that Honda will not and can not let that happen. If you doubt what I am saying, suggest you ask Tim about warranty work, approvals, etc.
Hey, it is only common sense ....
Yes, but this doesn't imply that the dealership is going to try and cut corners to save Acura money. The guidelines by which this is done are very well spelled out in the info that I posted earlier, and the dealers will adhere to that. You're not going to see a case of transmissions that should be replaced, not replaced.....if anything, quite the reverse. |
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| ucsdtriton |
YES! This is what I was expecting / waiting for. (of course, I'd rather have no Tranny problem at all)
I have 88,000 miles on my 01' MDX, paid the dealer $960 (labor) to have them replace my Tranny (Acura "paid" as a "Goodwill Warranty"/gesture for the remanufactured Tranny which supposedly costs about $4,500) last month.
With my old tranny gone, they can't deny that my tranny had a different problem. :1: I wouldn't doubt that my tranny was one of the ones they used to confirm there was a problem. I will be asking for my full REFUND!
The way I look at it, I'll be getting the best of both worlds: 1) the "Oil Jet Kit" and 2) a "new" tranny with hardly any miles. :cool:
ASAP, I'm gonna call my dealer serviceperson about getting a refund (I don't expect one until the dealer gets the official notice from Acura headquarters), and making sure I'm one of the first to get the jet pack! |
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| srpbep |
ucsdtriton,
What is most interesting to me is that Acura knew what was coming when they replaced your tranny. As of today, Acura has already identified there is a design/mfg problem, identified the cause of the problem, designed the solution, and come up with some picture taking gizmo to assess internal damage.
Where am I headed? Why didn't Acura simply "goodwill" all of it knowing what was coming? Would have made you happier and would have saved you from applying for a refund? To me, this would have been a better business decision.
Just my $0.02 worth. |
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| srpbep |
Just logged onto OwnersLink site for curiosity, selected our MDX, clicked on recalls and got the following:
quote:
There are no current safety recalls for your 2002 Acura MDX.
Wouldn't you think that Acura would update this site with at least some form of communication? Heck, even if it read that Acura had announced a recall, more information to follow ....
:wtf: |
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| Dale MDX |
quote:
Originally posted by perk
Interesting because Consumer Reports 2004 yearly survey rates the 2001 and 2002 MDX transmission as much better than average. As such, it appears that owners believe the transmission is superb. Curious.
Actually, that isn't necessarily correct. That's because CR doesn't report data like they used to. A "red" spot doesn't mean " much better than average" like it used to. The "spots" are now on an absolute scale. A solid red spot only means 2% or less of owners complained of a problem during the year. So it means somewhere under 2% of MDX owners that responded to the CR survey reported a significant transmission problem in the past year. (And actually the data is almost a year old by the time it's published, so it's basically for the year ending in early 2003 -- surveys for NEXT YEAR's auto issue are being filled out and returned right now.
So, the only way to determine if the MDX has more transmission problems than other models is to compare that red spot with other makes and models of the same year. Looking through the data, most makes and models get solid red spots for 01, 02, and 03 models. Here and there are half-red spots, particularly for the 01 year. The data are actually not detailed enough to make a valid comparison - but it's correct that there are no models with BETTER than the MDX record.
For comparison, The Acura TL and CL models have a solid red spot for 03 (TL) and half red spot for 03 (CL), and "clear" spots for the 2 previous model years. Now for that data, looking through the magazine, there are NO models made that are worse for transmission reliabilty than that, for 01, 02, and 03 summed taken together. So even though the data doesn't look that bad (no black spots, after all), it is bad. The CR data have to be studied fairly carefully in order to make conclusions on relative reliabilty. (I wish CR hadn't changed the way they report the data).
Also, there isn't supposed to be any issue of "belief" by owners that the transmissions are good or bad in the data. The owners are asked to report if they've had problems, not if they trust the transmission or have heard that others have had problems. What they REALLY do when they fill out the survey, of course, is up to them. |
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| DaleB |
Now I wonder about people who already have remanufactured MDX trannies. It is unlikely they have the oil kit, so I would assume they would follow the same guidelines. No damage they get the kit. Damage, they get 'another' remaned tranny.
Hope someone at the depot is keeping good track of these going back and forth. |
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| hondacuraworld |
quote:
Originally posted by srpbep
ucsdtriton,
What is most interesting to me is that Acura knew what was coming when they replaced your tranny. As of today, Acura has already identified there is a design/mfg problem, identified the cause of the problem, designed the solution, and come up with some picture taking gizmo to assess internal damage.
Where am I headed? Why didn't Acura simply "goodwill" all of it knowing what was coming? Would have made you happier and would have saved you from applying for a refund? To me, this would have been a better business decision.
Just my $0.02 worth.
Not true. The people at the dealership level, nor the people that authorize goodwill have any idea of what the engineering department is up to. |
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| ACKICK |
Why can't Honda/Acura fix this tranny problem? ****... the TL had tranny problem too. This been going on for years now. :wtf:
Now....this is really gonna affect my decision on purchasing a new MDX now. Unless..... Acura fixes this problem once and for all. :runaway:
Lexus.....here I come....:18:
ACKICK. |
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| srpbep |
quote:
ACKICK wrote:
Why can't Honda/Acura fix this tranny problem? ****... the TL had tranny problem too. This been going on for years now.
Now....this is really gonna affect my decision on purchasing a new MDX now. Unless..... Acura fixes this problem once and for all.
A couple of items:
** Honda is having tranny problems, not just the MDX, but with almost all of of its automatics [maybe all of them].
** Honda can fix the tranny problems and WILL fix the tranny problems. Has to or warranty costs will skyrocket and "brand image" ["reliable Honda"] will be lost.
That said, the real question is:
** Will Honda fix the existing trannys
--OR--
** Will Honda only correct the problem in future trannys.
Appears that the current trend is to fix the future trannys only:
** Honda has increased warranty on some trannys (to 100,000 miles) but only on the models with the highest rate of failure.
** Trannys in other models have been "left out" [for example, the MDX re the 3rd gear clutch pak].
** The recent MDX/Pilot/Ody recall was issued only because the "new problem" [2nd gear] was deemed a safety issue. Previous problems were NOT identified by NHTSA as a safety issue. |
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| sreeram10 |
PLanning to buy 2004 MDX.
but concerned about the transmisson problems in 2004.
any ides pl.
thanks |
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| perk |
quote:
Originally posted by Dale MDX
Actually, that isn't necessarily correct. That's because CR doesn't report data like they used to. A "red" spot doesn't mean " much better than average" like it used to. The "spots" are now on an absolute scale. A solid red spot only means 2% or less of owners complained of a problem during the year. So it means somewhere under 2% of MDX owners that responded to the CR survey reported a significant transmission problem in the past year. (And actually the data is almost a year old by the time it's published, so it's basically for the year ending in early 2003 -- surveys for NEXT YEAR's auto issue are being filled out and returned right now.
So, the only way to determine if the MDX has more transmission problems than other models is to compare that red spot with other makes and models of the same year. Looking through the data, most makes and models get solid red spots for 01, 02, and 03 models. Here and there are half-red spots, particularly for the 01 year. The data are actually not detailed enough to make a valid comparison - but it's correct that there are no models with BETTER than the MDX record.
For comparison, The Acura TL and CL models have a solid red spot for 03 (TL) and half red spot for 03 (CL), and "clear" spots for the 2 previous model years. Now for that data, looking through the magazine, there are NO models made that are worse for transmission reliabilty than that, for 01, 02, and 03 summed taken together. So even though the data doesn't look that bad (no black spots, after all), it is bad. The CR data have to be studied fairly carefully in order to make conclusions on relative reliabilty. (I wish CR hadn't changed the way they report the data).
Also, there isn't supposed to be any issue of "belief" by owners that the transmissions are good or bad in the data. The owners are asked to report if they've had problems, not if they trust the transmission or have heard that others have had problems. What they REALLY do when they fill out the survey, of course, is up to them.
Your point is well-taken, albeit complex. My point was simpler. Consumer Reports is usually dead-on accurate in its data, primarily because their data comes directly from a large number of consumers. In fact, CR won't publish statistics unless a sufficient number of owners report on their vehicles. Therefore, if this faulty transmission problem is really as bad as many on this site believe, then I strongly believe we would have seen some evidence of that in the CR reliability ratings. Because those ratings instead show all years of MDX trannys as "much better than average" (regardless of what that means), one is likely to deduce no "major" problem in MDX transmissions.
Now with that said, everyone in this thread is well aware that there IS a problem with 01 and 02 MDX trannys. Yet, although there is clearly a problem, as evidenced by the recall, the problem does not appear to have effected a substantial portion of MDXs in use. If it had, I believe we would have seen some evidence of that in the CR reliability ratings. |
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| hammermdx |
Latest release off of Owner's Link:
RECALLSAUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION RECALL FAQS
Which models are affected by this recall?
Affected models include:
Certain model year 2002, 2003 and early 2004 Honda Odyssey minivans.
Certain model year 2003 and early 2004 Honda Pilot sport-utility vehicles.
Certain model year 2001 and 2002 Acura MDX sport-utility vehicles.
What is the problem?
Certain operating conditions can result in heat build-up between the second gears of the transmission's countershaft and secondary shaft. Prolonged operation under these conditions can eventually result in a decrease in the gear's material strength. In higher mileage vehicles, this may lead to chipped or broken gear teeth or in rare instances gear failure.
What do you mean by "certain operating conditions"?
Extended cruising in top gear with a high engine load but small throttle opening can result in limited oil flow to 2nd gear, causing localized heat build-up. These conditions should be rare. Examples may include extended towing in top gear on a very flat road with a throttle opening of 1/4 or less; or frequent driving up a road with a very consistent slope of approximately 3.5~6%, again maintaining a throttle opening around 1/4 or less.
Under most circumstances, small road undulations or throttle corrections cause the vehicle to go in and out of torque converter lock-up, varying engine rpm, and therefore increasing oil flow to the gears. Increased oil flow dissipates heat and prevents 2nd gear damage.
What are the potential safety hazards of a transmission failure?
In a very small number of cases, customers have experienced a transmission lock-up without prior warning. Our records indicate only 10 instances of this type of failure with no injuries or accidents as a result.
What should customers do? Can they continue to drive?
American Honda will begin sending notification letters via U.S. mail as soon as sufficient parts are available to support the repair process. Notifications will be sent first to the owners of the oldest affected vehicles. The chance of a complete transmission failure without prior warning is exceptionally rare: only 10 cases out of a population of more than 600,000 vehicles over the past four years, according to our records. We have no confirmed reports of such a failure in the U.S. with less than 60,000 vehicle miles.
How and when will Honda begin to notify owners?
Mailings are scheduled to begin in early May and will continue until September or until all customers have been notified. We recommend that customers wait until they are notified before trying to schedule a service appointment. This will allow us to carry out the most efficient, effective and timely campaign.
What is the dealership looking for to identify if there is damage to 2nd gear?
Vehicles below 15,000 miles are at no risk for gear damage. In this case, the technician will update the transmission with a simple modification to the oil cooler return line to increase lubrication to second gear.
In vehicles with more than 15,000 miles, the dealer will inspect 2nd gear for discoloration due to heat. If there is any evidence of heat discoloration, the transmission will be replaced. If discoloration is not present, the dealer will perform the modification to the oil cooler return line.
How do I know if my vehicle is involved?
Before the end of April, we will update the Owner Link site so a customer can search by their individual VIN to understand if their vehicle is affected.
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| Paclark01 |
Honda/Acura has done a wonderful job with their vehicles. In their defense I am not the least bit concerned about the recall. Think about it... The Odyssey, Pilot, and MDX share the same platform and components. We has auto buyers request manufacturers to combine the best available into various packages to suit our needs. So to say Honda/Acura has dropped the ball on quality an reliability is false. A large scale recall was bound to happen, on the vehicles that share similar components.
To folks that question a 2004 MDX purchase... Go ahead, buy the truck. |
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| jsolo18 |
| Fatherlu is absolutely correct. My 2001 MDX Touring's transmission has been dying a slow, agonizing death for the last 8 months. I've been stonewalled by two Acura dealers insisting "there is nothing wrong". The vehicle is not safe to use on long trips; sounds like it can expire at any moment. This only supports my impression that Acura is not a premium automobile operation, it is no more responsible than Ford. The stonewalling would never have happened with Lexus. Bad policy, very bad for future business. |
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| Paclark01 |
| That may not entirely factual. Every car line up has some share of issues. Speaking in terms of Lexus, my father had an LS400, I believe a 1991 or 1992 with serious electrical issues. He had to hire an automotive attorney to get a refund on a 8000 mile Lexus, which did not get settled until the following year. I would venture to say Lexus might handle some situations better than other dealers, but there is no standard accross the board for a dealerships to follow, American, European, or Asian in regards to customer service and dealing with a pissed of customer who owns a $40,000 vehicle. |
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| PaBi |
Just logged in to Owner Link after reading about the recall. I you supply your VIN they will tell you if your X is affected or not 0 mine is :(
" Your 2002 Acura is included in the MDX Transmission Recall Campaign.
Description MDX Transmission Recall
Date 4/21/2004
Type Safety Recall Campaign
Status Open
If you experience problems or you have further questions, contact your dealer for assistance.
You can also find more information from:
American Honda Motor Co., Inc.
Acura Client Services
Mail Stop 500-2N-7E
1919 Torrance Blvd.
Torrance, CA 90501-9746
800-382-2238
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
400 Seventh Street, SW
Washington, DC 20590
Auto Safety Hotline 888.327.4236"
Thats what I got after entering my VIN. Try it and GOOD LUCK ! |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by PaBi
Thats what I got after entering my VIN. Try it and GOOD LUCK !
Yes, if you are already an owner's link member it will already tell you if you are affected. I am too. Now to wait for the formal mailing. Glad to see they revamped the Owner's Link website..easier to navigate. |
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| cardingtr |
So if you update you owners link address, that's where they will mail the notice?
I just want to make sure. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by cardingtr
So if you update you owners link address, that's where they will mail the notice?
I just want to make sure.
You are not required to be signed on to Owner's Link.
Recall notices come through the address you used on your purchase/lease agreement when you received the car from the dealer. Can't hurt to have all those updated. |
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| hondacuraworld |
| I have a first draft of a bulletin for this recall in my posession. If anyone can help me out by turning a .pdf file into a .jpg, email me at hondacuraworld@aol.com |
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| jj_mdx |
courtesy of Tim, who sent me the pdf version of the file...
sorry for the quality of the image, i was limited by the file size here in this forum...
here comes page 1 |
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| jj_mdx |
again, thanks to Tim....
page 2 |
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