| DaleB |
| Based on his previous films, I would take some events with a grain of salt. He is not always accurate. This is separate from any political statement he is trying to make, which he certainly has a right to do. |
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| keremoner |
:2:
No words needed! |
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| ghm2112 |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
Based on his previous films, I would take some events with a grain of salt. He is not always accurate. This is separate from any political statement he is trying to make, which he certainly has a right to do.
Agreed, but on the other hand, don't toss the baby with the bath water. As far as understand, he may dramaticize but has not been shown to 'manufacture truth.' I wish the same could be said about the current (or any) administration...
-Traveller:1: |
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| frostyra |
| No thanks -- I'll skip it. Sounds like propaganda bs to me. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by ghm2112
Agreed, but on the other hand, don't toss the baby with the bath water. As far as understand, he may dramaticize but has not been shown to 'manufacture truth.' I wish the same could be said about the current (or any) administration...
-Traveller:1:
Agreed, but there were no WMDs being manufactured at Lockheed Martin in Colo. and shipped out at night. Well, of course rocket body assemblies for launching satellites would not be shipped out during commuter times for obvious reasons.
One detail, but can be used to form more generalizations in the mind of the public. I find it hard to believe there were not other inaccuracies but I do not have the knowledge to argue them.
Details......watched IKE the other night. Excellent film of a great man. He said planning the objective is the easy part, it's handling the details that is nerve-racking. Therein may be the differences you are alluding to with regards to the present, and some other administrations.
Manufacture truth, or poor research....you may say pa TAY toh, I may say pa TAH toh. :) |
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| jbdmd |
There may not ne one shread of truth to this movie...but if there is it may be disturbing.
No matter your political stance there may be something for all of us to learn...if only to hate Moore more!
I say watch it...if not in the theater than wait for the dvd (the plan is for it to be out before the election), see what he says then check it against whatever trusted source material you like
information is power
truth is freedom |
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| laborlitigator |
| I just love him cause he's a smart a$$. |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
. . . Manufacture truth, or poor research....you may say pa TAY toh, I may say pa TAH toh. :)
DaleB,
You were referring here to GW's WMDs or Michael Moore? |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by jbdmd
There may not ne one shread of truth to this movie...but if there is it may be disturbing.
No matter your political stance there may be something for all of us to learn...if only to hate Moore more!
I say watch it...if not in the theater than wait for the dvd (the plan is for it to be out before the election), see what he says then check it against whatever trusted source material you like
information is power
truth is freedom
Agreed, not many movies would be watched if the requirement is for dead accuracy. What concerns me more, is if something is presented as the truth without telling the full story. But I will watch regardless.
I am a movie hound! |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
DaleB,
You were referring here to GW's WMDs or Michael Moore?
Use it as you wish. :cool: |
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| jbdmd |
hopefully with some research we should be able to tell if:
1)moore is lying or telling half truths...he is irresponsible and should be ashamed and should be publicly rebuked by all media
2)moore is telling the truth and it has damning things to say about the president....wouldn't you want to know that? republican democrat both or neither??? |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
Use it as you wish. :cool:
May need a jury to see who the bigger liar is. . . :p |
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| keremoner |
| I'll never support likes of Moore or Streisand (or several others) with my $$$s. They are far from being objective in their views. Most everyone will have some kind of a slant but you never see conservatives making movies full of lies and propaganda against a democrat, do you? If you do, let me know which one. Likes of Moore are the few whom I can comfortably label extremists. They are free to express their Marxist or whatever views but like most in this country, I will not watch them and empower them with my money. |
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| Blackura |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
Most everyone will have some kind of a slant but you never see conservatives making movies full of lies and propaganda against a democrat, do you?
If I had a dollar for every *conservative* movie maker in Hollywood, I'd be a super senior member over at oldcrappyyugo.org instead. |
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| DaleB |
Ironically, propaganda movies are made with the expectation that the people the movie is about would not watch it.
Maybe the conservatives are missing an opportunity. Or the interest level is simply not there. |
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| zafer |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
... but you never see conservatives making movies full of lies and propaganda against a democrat, do you? If you do, let me know which one.
I thought Moore was a conservative.... |
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| XStatic |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
Based on his previous films, I would take some events with a grain of salt. He is not always accurate. This is separate from any political statement he is trying to make, which he certainly has a right to do.
I agree he has a great ability to take comments and sound bytes of of context to make political statements that I generally do not agree with. However there is truth in his films, he just twists it a bit to make a point. |
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| frostyra |
quote:
Originally posted by Blackura
If I had a dollar for every *conservative* movie maker in Hollywood, I'd be a super senior member over at oldcrappyyugo.org instead.
:bingo: |
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| Blackura |
quote:
Originally posted by zafer
I thought Moore was a conservative....
Woo Hoo! If so, that's $1 for me! |
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| ghm2112 |
"A man who tells lies, like me, merely hides the truth. But a man who tells half-lies has forgotten where he put it."
- M. Dreyden, in Lawrence of Arabia.
I look forward to reading the WSJ's review of the film. While generally a conservative viewpoint, they generally do a good job of researching the 'truth' in such matters. Same holds for the NYTimes, albeit from a generally different perspective.
As for both the movie and the sparks that I am sure will follow in this thread, all I can say is:
:lurk:
-Traveller:1:
P.S. Moore is a blow-hard and an exhibitionist, but I'll take his half-truths and obfuscations any day over those of BushCo (800 Americans and 10s of thousands of Iraqi's and counting...) |
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| Blackura |
quote:
Originally posted by ghm2112
I look forward to reading the WSJ's review of the film. While generally a conservative viewpoint, they generally do a good job of researching the 'truth' in such matters. Same holds for the NYTimes, albeit from a generally different perspective.
Actually, I think the Times has been slipping on their "research" lately. Jason Blair was the first of several to get caught.
I agree, the WSJ review will be a must read. |
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| ghm2112 |
Considering the number of high profile stories the NYT must edit daily (and number of journalists that must be managed) I don't fault them too much on the Blair thing. In fact, I applaud them for going after the problem so openly (as far as I can tell). Also, I harbor absolutely NO impression that other notable papers (inlcuding the WSJ) have such problems.
It will be very interesting to see how this plays out vis-a-vis the election: will the backlash against BushCo win the day or will it be the backlash against Moore? If nothing else, Mr. Moore has just made himself a much rich(er?) man...:4:
-Traveller:1: |
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| laborlitigator |
| Personally, I like Bowling for Columbine |
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| greatscot |
| I'll pass, saving my pennies to go see Shrek 2 again, seems to offer "moore" value for my money. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Personally, I like Bowling for Columbine
I like Bowling for Dollars! :D |
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| XStatic |
quote:
Originally posted by greatscot
I'll pass, saving my pennies to go see Shrek 2 again, seems to offer "moore" value for my money.
I will wait until it is on TV. |
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| HARDROCK |
| I can't watit to see it! Watching Bush always makes me laugh (but later when I go to sleep I have nighmares about what he is doing to our country and world). |
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| XStatic |
quote:
Originally posted by HARDROCK
Watching Bush always makes me laugh
Be sure to TiVo David Letterman everynight so you can watch the Bush soundbyte segment! |
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| ghm2112 |
quote:
Originally posted by HARDROCK
I can't watit to see it! Watching Bush always makes me laugh (but later when I go to sleep I have nighmares about what he is doing to our country and world).
Hardrock:
You have a pretty strange sense of humor. I just feel embarassed and bewildered that such a dolt is "Leader of the Free World." I do not doubt his patriotic (and corporate) zeal. I just see him as a tool of The Man (woah, where's my afro?).
If W was born (or in his case, born again) into almost any other family, he sure as hell would never have gone to Yale, etc. and would probably be selling (very ernestly) used trucks in downtown Crawford.:2:
-Traveller:1: |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by ghm2112
Hardrock:
You have a pretty strange sense of humor. I just feel embarassed and bewildered that such a dolt is "Leader of the Free World." I do not doubt his patriotic (and corporate) zeal. I just see him as a tool of The Man (woah, where's my afro?).
If W was born (or in his case, born again) into almost any other family, he sure as hell would never have gone to Yale, etc. and would probably be selling (very ernestly) used trucks in downtown Crawford.:2:
-Traveller:1:
Well, selling used trucks in Crawford I assume would be like selling street drugs in Compton.
Charisma is not required. In fact, may be viewed strangely. |
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| ghm2112 |
Naw, I see it more as a job that plays to his strengths: direct, one-on-one interaction and an ability to comport himself with earnest, good old boy charisma.
I'm not sure what the Compton-esque equivalent would be, but sales is sales, right? Just watch your back (on the streets or in the car lot).
-Traveller |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by ghm2112
Naw, I see it more as a job that plays to his strengths: direct, one-on-one interaction and an ability to comport himself with earnest, good old boy charisma.
I'm not sure what the Compton-esque equivalent would be, but sales is sales, right? Just watch your back (on the streets or in the car lot).
-Traveller
Poor analogy. My apology to good texans. I have no doubt the man is earnest, if a a bit misguided. But if he does not listen to advice, he has only himself to blame.
Again, the Gore/Bush ticket was a 'lesser evil' than a 'the better man' phenomena in my estimation. If only Powell had been running.... |
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| HARDROCK |
quote:
Originally posted by ghm2112
I just see him as a tool of The Man (woah, where's my afro?).
-Traveller:1:
Stop talking about my hair style....:mad: |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by HARDROCK
Stop talking about my hair style....:mad:
Limited resources? :D |
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| ghm2112 |
quote:
Originally posted by HARDROCK
Stop talking about my hair style....:mad:
Solid. We all need a little...
Undercover Brother :4:
-Traveller:1: |
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| ghm2112 |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
If only Powell had been running....
No doubt a sentiment shared by the families of those lost in the current 'expedition' in Iraq...:(
-Traveller:1: |
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| BigDog |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
Most everyone will have some kind of a slant but you never see conservatives making movies full of lies and propaganda against a democrat, do you?
Oh, no, you can just watch Fox news for free for that. :rolleyes:
Have you actually SEEN a Michael Moore move? Or are you just believing the propaganda you read? If you had seen Bowling for Columbine you'd know that all he does is point the camera. Everyone manages to shoot themselves in the foot without any help from him at all.
Mrs. BigDog |
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| BigDog |
quote:
Originally posted by ghm2112
I just feel embarassed and bewildered that such a dolt is "Leader of the Free World." I do not doubt his patriotic (and corporate) zeal. I just see him as a tool of The Man (woah, where's my afro?).
If W was born (or in his case, born again) into almost any other family, he sure as hell would never have gone to Yale, etc. and would probably be selling (very ernestly) used trucks in downtown Crawford.:2:
-Traveller:1:
Me too, Traveller, me too.
Mrs. BigDog |
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| renov8r |
It is impossible to make any movie w/o making some decisions about what to edit.
If you see "The Control Room" you'll see something different yet similar to MM's 9/11:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0391024/board/nest/9031186
Personally I think the existence( proliferation???) of these movies makes charges of "right-winger Nazi repression of the news" quite comical... |
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| bomo |
| Saw it tonight. In context, out of context, truth or lies whatever there are two scenes that say quite a bit and no lies there. One has been played up in the press about Bush sitting with the kids in FLA reading My Pet Goat for 7 minutes after he is told about the attack. Scary. The other is the mother from Michigan who encourages her children to join the services to get ahead only to lose her son in Iraq. The fact that the reasons for the war are not as we were led to believe is pretty much common knowledge at this point. I will wait to talk to some of my Bush supporter (note I didn't say Republican because most of my Republican friends are discouraged with Bush at this point) friends if I can get them to see the movie. |
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| robrecht |
I saw it tonight also.
Now, I know a lot of people hate Michael Moore and I repsect those who cannot tolerate his smart-alecky sacrasm applied to such painful and tragic recent events. Nonetheless, I found the film remarkably straightforward compared with some of his other films. Don't get me wrong, he's still a cynical smartass spewing forth wildly implausible connections, but there's some very disturbing and also some very moving footage that should be thought provoking, regardless of your political perspectiive or artistic sensibilities. But don't see it if you positively cannot respect the viewpoints of others. |
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| BaldEagle |
No Thanks. Michael Moore has an agenda and is a leftwing propagandist.
His hatred for the Bush family and the political right is well known. Moore is trying to undermine the war effort and influence the election.
I saw "Roger and Me" many years back. Moore's habit of making off the wall links are part of the bag of tricks he employs throughout these homemovies he calls documentaries. Moore uses supposition, conjecture and innuendo to express his warped sense of reality, while he constantly oversteps the bounds of editorial license.
Bottomline, Moore is intellectually dishonesty, aka. Moore is a "liar". |
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| mogur |
I saw it today and thought it was excellent. Everyone of every political pursuasion should see it.
$21.8 million for a documentary over a weekend in only 800+ theaters breaks all records. It was pretty much sold out everywhere.
Tom
quote:
Originally posted by jbdmd
http://www.michaelmoore.com
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| hhwc |
quote:
Originally posted by mogur
I saw it today and thought it was excellent. Everyone of every political pursuasion should see it.
$21.8 million for a documentary over a weekend in only 800+ theaters breaks all records. It was pretty much sold out everywhere.
Tom
Why did Moore find it necessary when talking about 9-11 not to SHOW WHAT HAPPENED ON 9-11? Hmm...
This propaganda movie has had its run. Here comes SPIDERMAN!!! |
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| hhwc |
quote:
Originally posted by jbdmd
http://www.michaelmoore.com
Since Moore questions why we are in Iraq, here's a little info he may not have shared from the new Iraqi PM...
---------------------------
Tuesday, June 29, 2004 11:26 p.m. EDT
Brokaw Raps Iraqi PM for Linking Saddam to 9/11
NBC "Nightly News" anchorman Tom Brokaw was so dismayed Tuesday night when Iraqi Prime Minister Iyad Allawi linked Saddam Hussein to the 9/11 attacks that he actually reprimanded him during his interview.
When Brokaw asked the new Iraqi leader if he could "understand why many Americans feel that so many young men and women have died here for purposes other than protecting the United States?" Dr. Allawi responded: "We know that this is an extension to what has happened in New York. And the war [has] been taken out to Iraq by the same terrorists. Saddam was a potential friend and partner and natural ally of terrorism."
Plainly miffed that Dr. Allawi hadn't accepted the U.S. media's attempt to cover-up links between Saddam, al Qaida and 9/11, Brokaw reprimanded him as cameras rolled:
"Prime minister, Im surprised that you would make the connection between 9/11 and the war in Iraq. The 9/11 commission in America says there is no evidence of a collaborative relationship between Saddam Hussein and those terrorists of al-Qaida."
But Dr. Allawi refused to back down, telling the top TV anchor:
"No. I believe very strongly that Saddam had relations with al-Qaida. And these relations started in Sudan. We know Saddam had relationships with a lot of terrorists and international terrorism. Now, whether he is directly connected to the September atrocities or not, I can't vouch for this. But definitely I know he has connections with extremism and terrorists."
In December Dr. Allawi commented on a recently discovered Iraqi intelligence document placing lead 9/11 hijacker Mohamed Atta in Baghdad two months before the attacks.
"We are uncovering evidence all the time of Saddam's involvement with al-Qaeda," he told the London Telegraph. "But this is the most compelling piece of evidence that we have found so far. It shows that not only did Saddam have contacts with al-Qaeda, he had contact with those responsible for the September 11 attacks." |
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| neide |
| C'mon, moner. Scream "liberal". You know you want to. |
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| laborlitigator |
| I just wish one day would could just drop the whole Dem/Rep or Lib/Con nametags. People flipflop on so many issues anyway. |
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| BaldEagle |
quote:
Originally posted by zafer
http://whitehousewest.com/
Karl Rove? Wonder how this group feels about George Soros and the ads he is advocating/financing?
I thought this forum was not allowing political posts? |
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| djr |
| But who is John Galt? |
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