| mullysalt |
| Detroit is title-town. Boston a CBA team. LA stands for losing again. Shaq daddy looks fit and trim in the Heat uni, however, they say black is a trimming color. He still looks 20-30 lbs. lighter than when last seen in the Finals. Here's to an exciting NBA season with new divisions, team(Bobcats) and hopefully come June, the same champion as last year. |
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| laborlitigator |
We'll I'm adopting the Heat as my new beloved team since my Knicks are going to be a mediocre team again.
If there is a God in heaven, Kobe gets swept in the first round. |
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| mullysalt |
| Jackson's new book rakes Kobe over the coals. Where are our Laker fans to shed some light on Phil's new book just in time for the holiday season? |
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| laborlitigator |
Q: Why did Kobe add the letter "O" to his bracelet?
A: So it would stand for: "What Would O.J. Do?". |
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| mullysalt |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Q: Why did Kobe add the letter "O" to his bracelet?
A: So it would stand for: "What Would O.J. Do?".
:19:
The name of my fantasy footbal league...............
WWWFD? Football League
What Would Wayne Fontes Do?
I don't ever remember a season in which so many of the top players have switched teams. They all needed to make moves because Detroit is stronger with Dyess, Coleman and Delfino. |
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| mullysalt |
| The NBA season is here, enjoy.:2: |
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| Gladiator |
| Let's GO KNICKS !! |
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| Mr. Mom |
"Motown melee"
Was that you, mullysalt, with the blue beer cup? :rolleyes: |
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| mullysalt |
Did you see me on TV? I got two good sucker punches on Artest!
In all reality, I can never remember such an ugly event. I was watching the game and have watched replays, IMHO, Artest wasn't the first or last guy to get doused at a game but he took it to a physical level and from there all hell broke loose.
Artest, Jackson and O'Neal 10 games each.
Big Ben will get a few, too.
It could have been alot worse thankfully there are no serious injuries.
P.S.-I guess we can all forget about MNF openings now.:rolleyes: |
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| laborlitigator |
Artest just seems to be a magnet for trouble. Perhaps he was justified in being angered but he went into the stands. I don't see how his argument for self defense is going to hold up.
That was an embarrassment. |
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| Lacostacal |
Here is the deal with my Lakers. Win 3 or 4 or so championships in a row and then take a couple of years off to let other no so fortunate teams win one.
We will be back!.....and everyone knows it!
Good to see the Detroit fans doing what they do best last night. I guess if you are stuck living there, you have no choice but to take out your anger on someone else.
I forgot, what is the other name for Halloween in Detroit again? Oh ya, Hell Night. The night when all the lovely residents burn down the city. Now that is what I call community spirit! At least they are working together.
Or, free VCR night...I mean championship celebration night. The night when the good folk of Detroit use any excuse to rob and loot the local businesses.
:D |
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| Gladiator |
quote:
Originally posted by Lacostacal
Here is the deal with my Lakers. Win 3 or 4 or so championships in a row and then take a couple of years off to let other no so fortunate teams win one.
We will be back!.....and everyone knows it!
Good to see the Detroit fans doing what they do best last night. I guess if you are stuck living there, you have no choice but to take out your anger on someone else.
I forgot, what is the other name for Halloween in Detroit again? Oh ya, Hell Night. The night when all the lovely residents burn down the city. Now that is what I call community spirit! At least they are working together.
Or, free VCR night...I mean championship celebration night. The night when the good folk of Detroit use any excuse to rob and loot the local businesses.
:D
You sound like a bitter Laker fan. Sour grapes dude sour grapes.
Disgusting display last night on all counts. |
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| xfactor |
quote:
Originally posted by mullysalt
Did you see me on TV? I got two good sucker punches on Artest!
In all reality, I can never remember such an ugly event. ...
A Monday night football game between the Raiders and the Broncos was just as bad. The Bronco fans were pelting the Raiders with Ice and snowballs. Several Raiders (bleeding heads and all) went after those jerks in the stands to take matters in their own hands. How ironic, I thought the Raider Nation was supposed to have a patent on 'rowdy' fan behavior. I'm sure if any of these events happened in Oakland, the consensus would be an attitude of 'what else do you expect?" :rolleyes:
Given the situation, Artest was already heated and trying to calm down. The fan incited him and not the other way around. For the integrity of the game from a fan perspective he will have to be suspended. This does not mean however that he is not fully justified in dealing with the assault against his person. People should put themselves in the same situation. If I were assaulted, you bet I'd take action, immediately..
:4: |
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| mullysalt |
quote:
Originally posted by Lacostacal
Good to see the Detroit fans doing what they do best last night. I guess if you are stuck living there, you have no choice but to take out your anger on someone else.
I forgot, what is the other name for Halloween in Detroit again? Oh ya, Hell Night. The night when all the lovely residents burn down the city. Now that is what I call community spirit! At least they are working together.
Or, free VCR night...I mean championship celebration night. The night when the good folk of Detroit use any excuse to rob and loot the local businesses.
:D
:finger: |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by xfactor
Given the situation, Artest was already heated and trying to calm down. The fan incited him and not the other way around. For the integrity of the game from a fan perspective he will have to be suspended. This does not mean however that he is not fully justified in dealing with the assault against his person. People should put themselves in the same situation. If I were assaulted, you bet I'd take action, immediately..
:4:
X,
No way you can justify Artest jumping into the stands. A cup of water does not give one license to beat the heck out of a fan.
Plus I don't want to hear any of that respect argument either. If Artest's pride was hurt, he should have gone after Wallace if anyone. He knew better. Ee would've gotten a beat down if he did that. So what does he do, he goes after the 145 lb Caucasian. It's laughable if you ask me.
Plus Jackson should have gotten the season also. |
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| Lacostacal |
quote:
Originally posted by mullysalt
:finger:
At first I thought you were just a jerk-off. Then I realized why you are so angry. You live in Toledo and drive a Hyundai. Life can't get much worse than that. You actually admit to owning a friggin Hyundai?
I was right...you are a jerk-off!!!!:ghetto: |
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| mullysalt |
quote:
Originally posted by Lacostacal
Life can't get much worse than that.
:
If the good poeple of this board, myself included, might have the terrible misfortune of ever making your acquaintance.
Good day, sir. |
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| xfactor |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
X,
No way you can justify Artest jumping into the stands. A cup of water does not give one license to beat the heck out of a fan.
Plus I don't want to hear any of that respect argument either. If Artest's pride was hurt, he should have gone after Wallace if anyone. He knew better. Ee would've gotten a beat down if he did that. So what does he do, he goes after the 145 lb Caucasian. It's laughable if you ask me.
Plus Jackson should have gotten the season also.
Let me put it another way. I can go to your place of employment, and enter your office, throw a beer at you, slap you, do what I want because I paid for parking.... I respect any persons decision to be passive, and 'turn the other cheek', but I personally don't get down like that. Any person who assaults me, will be dealt with immediately, and severely. I don't care what the perps size, color, religion, creed is.
Lets see how the 'justice' system works now. Since two parties are at fault, will the jerk who started this (the escaped convict in the white hat with a rap sheet of assault and battery) loose approx 85% of his annual salary? Yeah right... :rolleyes: |
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| Mr. Mom |
| Artest got what was coming to him. The foul he gave Wallace was chicken sh*t. The world champs deserve better than that, no matter which team one roots for. Artest was begging for it by lying on the table, and he got it. He througt, he can kiss the NBA goodbye. |
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| laborlitigator |
You can't make the comparison between your office space and a sporting arena.
And if someone threw a cup of water at me at work, although I would be angry, I, personally would not resort to fistacuffs. I wouldn't risk my livelihood on a cup water.
But then again, that's me. |
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| xfactor |
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Mom
Artest got what was coming to him. The foul he gave Wallace was chicken sh*t. The world champs deserve better than that, no matter which team one roots for. Artest was begging for it by lying on the table, and he got it. He through, he can kiss the NBA goodbye.
Shaq gets fouled like that every night!, and he reacted only a few times to the nightly beatings. The NBA is played by grown men who play physical. I understand Wallace is grieving, and I give him a pass, even though the foul wasn't that hard.
Hard to figure out how Artest was 'begging' for it. :confused: |
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| xfactor |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
You can't make the comparison between your office space and a sporting arena.
And if someone threw a cup of water at me at work, although I would be angry, I, personally would not resort to fistacuffs. I wouldn't risk my livelihood on a cup water.
But then again, that's me.
Yes, I can make the comparison. Both are places of employment, when a given individual performs his/her duties in order to earn a living.
To protect ones person will NOT (should not) risk anyones livelihood. BTW, the location of the assault is irrelevant. I should feel safe in my office, as well as walking down the street, or driving in my car.
If an individual infringes on my right to safety, then he must receive feedback, so he would be less likely to infringe on other peoples safety. I would be happy to give him feedback. |
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| Maik |
Interesting that in the early days of basketball, it was played in a court that had a fence around the perimeter, between the court and the fans. It was called a "cage", and that is why basketball players are frequently referred to as "cagers".
Maybe its time they revert back?
As far as Artest having the "right" to defend himself, balogna. These are entertainers, playing in a hostle environment ( as defined simply as any away game). In that light, I would absolutely say that they do not have the right to retaliate against fans and that they must live by a higher standard than most. The proper thing for Artest to do would simply be to point out the fan to security and let them deal with it. |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by xfactor
Yes, I can make the comparison. Both are places of employment, when a given individual performs his/her duties in order to earn a living.
To protect ones person will NOT (should not) risk anyones livelihood. BTW, the location of the assault is irrelevant. I should feel safe in my office, as well as walking down the street, or driving in my car.
If an individual infringes on my right to safety, then he must receive feedback, so he would be less likely to infringe on other peoples safety. I would be happy to give him feedback.
I would take issue with your presumption that Artest was in a position of danger that required him to jump into the stands to defend himself. A cup of soda was thrown at him and yes, it could have injured his eye or something else, but I would not say that he was under attack. Also, his livelyhood, unlike yours, does require him to perform in hostile environments and as such he should excersize a greater degree of discretion. |
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| Mr. Mom |
quote:
Originally posted by xfactor
Shaq gets fouled like that every night!, and he reacted only a few times to the nightly beatings. The NBA is played by grown men who play physical. I understand Wallace is grieving, and I give him a pass, even though the foul wasn't that hard.
Hard to figure out how Artest was 'begging' for it. :confused:
I would say Shaq gives more than he gets. And yes, flaunting the foul by laying down, next to the crowd instead of moving to the center of the court, I say he was begging for it. |
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| keremoner |
| The good old days of Bird, Dr. J, MJ, Magic, etc. are gone for ever. That is when a whole lot of people like me liked the NBA but no longer watch the league. Now it has become a league of criminals, bad behaviour all around, and spoiled brats who'd only be gangsta rap artists if they couldn't play BB. A sad day indeed. |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
The good old days of Bird, Dr. J, MJ, Magic, etc. are gone for ever. That is when a whole lot of people like me liked the NBA but no longer watch the league. Now it has become a league of criminals, bad behaviour all around, and spoiled brats who'd only be gangsta rap artists if they couldn't play BB. A sad day indeed.
Agreed.
I have not watched a game in several years. And up til about 5 years ago, I was an avid fan. To much me me me and not enough team team team. |
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| keremoner |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
Agreed.
I have not watched a game in several years. And up til about 5 years ago, I was an avid fan. To much me me me and not enough team team team.
And only if they opened their eyes and saw what team spirit can do (ala Pats or Celtics of the 60s among others) |
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| xfactor |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
...As far as Artest having the "right" to defend himself, balogna. These are entertainers, playing in a hostle environment ...
The proper thing for Artest to do would simply be to point out the fan to security and let them deal with it.
I would consider verbal abuse, taunting, and heckling part of a 'hostile' environment. Not having objects hurled at you. They have laws against that.:confused:
Im sure you've been to a Basketball game before. Do you call those retired senior citizens security? How exactly would they 'deal' with it? The same way they dealt with the brawl? The 'security' was non-existent. |
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| Mr. Mom |
| There is a team that I like to watch because it is a team and plays like one. There isn’t “the me” attitude on it and they pass the ball and they are darn good. They have made it fun for me again to watch. It’s the Spurs and even though I usually root for the underdog, I have to admire them for their team play. |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by xfactor
I would consider verbal abuse, taunting, and heckling part of a 'hostile' environment. Not having objects hurled at you. They have laws against that.:confused:
Im sure you've been to a Basketball game before. Do you call those retired senior citizens security? How exactly would they 'deal' with it? The same way they dealt with the brawl? The 'security' was non-existent.
I agree with the fact that security was very lacking. Having said that, I still dont think that Artest used sound judgement in going into the stands.
20 years ago, I feared for my life in Foxboro Stadium. At any time, I could easily have been hit by a liquor bottle tossed from behind me.
When Kraft bought the team, it all changed. A significant increase in security and many fans were tossed out of the stadium for their behavior. Season tickets were taken away from those fans. There is even a rule, that if I give you my ticket, and you get thrown out, I loose my season tickets. The result over the past several years is a stadium that is safe for both fans and players. I would no longer hesitate to bring a small child. It is truly a model for all venues. |
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| ByeByeChrysler |
Re: NBA = National Brawling Association
I thought I was watching a hockey game:D |
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| xfactor |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
I agree with the fact that security was very lacking. Having said that, I still dont think that Artest used sound judgement in going into the stands.
I'm sure Artest would do it differently in hindsight. Maybe run immediately to the locker room for protection, ect. I'm sure he knew it was going to be a heavy price to pay, due to the cumulative nature of NBA punishment.
I bet that assshole in the stands continues the behavior, because his punishment would not likely be severe enough to deter such acts it the future. I'ts amazing to me how the 'court' of public opinion is giving this criminal a pass, while dumping on Ron. :confused: |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by xfactor
I'm sure Artest would do it differently in hindsight. Maybe run immediately to the locker room for protection, ect. I'm sure he knew it was going to be a heavy price to pay, due to the cumulative nature of NBA punishment.
I bet that assshole in the stands continues the behavior, because his punishment would not likely be severe enough to deter such acts it the future. I'ts amazing to me how the 'court' of public opinion is giving this criminal a pass, while dumping on Ron. :confused:
Lets not get carried away with this defense of Artest. After all it is his 9th suspension. If it were up to me, he would be banned from the NBA for life. That would set the tone for other players.
As for the jerk in the stands, he should be fully prosecuted. I don't think anyone condones his behavior. |
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| xfactor |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
Lets not get carried away with this defense of Artest. After all it is his 9th suspension. If it were up to me, he would be banned from the NBA for life. That would set the tone for other players....
Yes, as I've stated, I understand the NBA suspension/punishment 'guideline' is cumulative in nature. That is why I am somewhat surprised the Rasheed Wallace wasn't fined just for being in the building where the melee occurred. I guess deep down it is the hypocrisy in sport that irks me.
The NBA marketed Bird, Magic, Jordan, but also marketed Rodman, Mahorn, Laimbeer, ect. (the bad boys). The 'freakshow' aspect benefits the NBA and is promoted, but they are quick to severely punish them regarding an incident.
The NFL is even a bigger offender. All of these apologies over Janet's chest, a desperate housewives promo, etc. Yet were are inundated with Viagra adds with warnings on ' 4 hour wood'. Oh, and don't forget the cheerleaders...
I guess I'm asking too much. Integrity, No hypocrisy, fairness, honesty, and generally keeping it real... Maybe I'm getting too old. |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by xfactor
The NFL is even a bigger offender. All of these apologies over Janet's chest, a desperate housewives promo, etc. Yet were are inundated with Viagra adds with warnings on ' 4 hour wood'. Oh, and don't forget the cheerleaders...
I guess I'm asking too much. Integrity, No hypocrisy, fairness, honesty, and generally keeping it real... Maybe I'm getting too old.
Hey, lets not forget that classic beer ad where the two scantilly clad women fought in the pool!
I was so offended by that one, I had to watch it over and over in slow motion to see just how offensive it was!
But X, the difference between this incident and the "old time" villans like Lambier is that they kept it on the court. |
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| socalJD |
It's too easy to dump all over Artest - yes he's the hot head, yes he's the one that recently asked for time off from hoops to promote his rap DVD, yes he's the one that escalated the melee, but if you REALLY want to nip this thing in the bud and set an example for preempting future ugly incidents - give Ben Wallace the same punishment as Artest. Let's face the cold hard truth, if Wallace doesn't give Artest the two handed neck shove in the first place, ALL of this would have been avoided. Suspend Wallace for the rest of the season and I GUARANTEE you that no other player will so much as raise his hand against another player during a game. Ever since Stern instituted the automatic suspension just for leaving the bench during a skirmish, you hardly ever see that happening today. If Sprewell can't 'feed his family' on the measly $11mm/yr that Minn offered him, how will the rest of the NBA feel over NO pay for an entire season for throwing a punch/slap/shove at another player during a game . . . 6 games is not enough for Big Ben - he should have known the situation, the guy who fouled him, the point in the game and just walked away. If really so inclined, he should have waited in the parking lot after the game to confront Artest and settle the issue - off the court, outside the arena and hopefully not in full view of TV cameras and innocent fans & bystanders . . .
Artest may be a ticking timebomb, but you really don't need to keep hitting a bomb with a hammer just to see if it's a dud or if it will really explode . . . |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by xfactor
Yes, I can make the comparison. Both are places of employment, when a given individual performs his/her duties in order to earn a living.
To protect ones person will NOT (should not) risk anyones livelihood. BTW, the location of the assault is irrelevant. I should feel safe in my office, as well as walking down the street, or driving in my car.
If an individual infringes on my right to safety, then he must receive feedback, so he would be less likely to infringe on other peoples safety. I would be happy to give him feedback.
That's not my argument. It's not whether you have the right to defend yourself in the workplace but rather Artest, a physically imposing basketball player, was not justified in physically attacking an individual for throwing water on him because the response outweighed the initial salvo.
For example, if an individual attacks you with his bare fists and you take a gun out and blow a hole in his chest, you're going to jail. The defense of justification requires a response equal to that of the attack.
In this case, Artest loses in both courts because his response to the situation was, for lack of a better word, excessive. |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
As far as Artest having the "right" to defend himself, balogna. These are entertainers, playing in a hostle environment ( as defined simply as any away game). In that light, I would absolutely say that they do not have the right to retaliate against fans and that they must live by a higher standard than most. The proper thing for Artest to do would simply be to point out the fan to security and let them deal with it.
That was the proper response.
Funny you bring up the old time ballplayers, but I've read where Mr. Russell had to put up with alot more than water getting thrown on him. |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by xfactor
I'm sure Artest would do it differently in hindsight. Maybe run immediately to the locker room for protection, ect. I'm sure he knew it was going to be a heavy price to pay, due to the cumulative nature of NBA punishment.
I bet that a***hole in the stands continues the behavior, because his punishment would not likely be severe enough to deter such acts it the future. I'ts amazing to me how the 'court' of public opinion is giving this criminal a pass, while dumping on Ron. :confused:
I'm not giving the fan any break. I hope they prosecute him (which I believe they are since he was a previous perp) because it would relay a message to people. If they simply removed people who started swearing at games, it would deter the foulmouths in the future. A ticket does not give you a license to act like a complete pric*. |
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| Maik |
By the way, can anyone explain to me why Artest was lounging on top of the scorer's table?
And, as far as Wallace is concerned, the ref who called thw foul did not even call it an intentional foul. That being the case, why should he be considered at fault? |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
By the way, can anyone explain to me why Artest was lounging on top of the scorer's table?
And, as far as Wallace is concerned, the ref who called thw foul did not even call it an intentional foul. That being the case, why should he be considered at fault?
Cause Artest is punk. As for Wallace, even though he pushed Artest, his suspension was appropriate for what he did. |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Cause Artest is punk. As for Wallace, even though he pushed Artest, his suspension was appropriate for what he did.
Don't you think it a tad inconsistant that the ref did not even call it an intentional foul? |
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| xfactor |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
Don't you think it a tad inconsistant that the ref did not even call it an intentional foul?
My point exactly... The fan was responsible for the escalation of the incident. Fouls and basketball court skirmishes occur on a nightly basis. If the jerk does not assault Ron, the environment calms down, as usual.
Any man with half a testicle would not allow such an act go unpunished. Therefore, I understand Ron completely.
BTW, Maik if that fan attacked Lambeer, you bet he would have kicked his ass immediately. He was bigger, nastier, and probably a better fighter.
As you may remember, Lincoln Kennedy, Charles Woodson, Travian Smith, among other Raiders, didn't play that sh**t either. When the Denver fans crossed the line tossing ice, snow, batteries, and other debris they went after them as well. |
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| socalJD |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
And, as far as Wallace is concerned, the ref who called thw foul did not even call it an intentional foul. That being the case, why should he be considered at fault?
Not sure I understand your point. The basketball-related foul was committed by Artest on Wallace, Wallace over-reacted and gave Artest a very physical two-handed shove to his neck/lower chin which sent Artest reeling backwards. I consider Wallace at fault for the entire ugly incident since he could have shown his displeasure in other ways. There were apprx 45 sec left in the game, Pacers were up by at least 12 pts, realistically the Pistons lost, all that was left was the actual final score - Big Ben could have simply walked up to Artest and told him to meet him outside after the game - odds are Artest wouldn't have shown up . . . remember, Stern wants to set such a precedence so as to prevent something like this from happening again, gotta start with the instigator . . . |
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| Maik |
Social and X,
Maybe I am showing my age, but I simply dont think that any pro player has ANY business going into the stands under any circumstances.
And, if you measure a man in any way by his ability to instigate, further or continue violence, we are not on the same page at all.
By going into the stands to "defend" himself, a pro athlete is actually showing immaturity, not machoism. Only a complete idiot would react the way Artest did. He is without a doubt a jerk of the highest magnitude.
As I have stated before, I also think the "fan" was a moron who should be fully prosecuted. |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by socalJD
Not sure I understand your point. The basketball-related foul was committed by Artest on Wallace, Wallace over-reacted and gave Artest a very physical two-handed shove to his neck/lower chin which sent Artest reeling backwards. I consider Wallace at fault for the entire ugly incident since he could have shown his displeasure in other ways. There were apprx 45 sec left in the game, Pacers were up by at least 12 pts, realistically the Pistons lost, all that was left was the actual final score - Big Ben could have simply walked up to Artest and told him to meet him outside after the game - odds are Artest wouldn't have shown up . . . remember, Stern wants to set such a precedence so as to prevent something like this from happening again, gotta start with the instigator . . .
So you blame Wallace for Artest and the other Pacers who went into the stands throwing punches? Interesting line of logic. Maybe we should hold Smith & Wesson responsible for any deaths from guns they manufactured? |
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| keremoner |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
Maybe we should hold Smith & Wesson responsible for any deaths from guns they manufactured?
Sad but I believe they already have in at least one occasion (or tried to)
Pass the buck is the motto of today's society. |
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| xfactor |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
...Pass the buck is the motto of today's society.
Unfortunate and true. Individuals should be accountable for their own behavior. If you harm another, expect to be harmed. Simple. These days, too many people run from responsibility for their own actions. Some pathetic fans want to hurl objects, and then don't expect reciprocity? Wow...
A man protects violation of his person, family, friends, and loved ones vigorously. Plain and simple....
At least in this one poll, most place the primary blame on the fans, as it should be...
http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/spor...tory?id=1896855 |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by xfactor
A man protects violation of his person, family, friends, and loved ones vigorously.
. . . from having a cup of water dropped on him. . .
yeah right.:19: |
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| xfactor |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
. . . from having a cup of water dropped on him. . .
There ya go LL! I knew you'd eventually grasp the concept of principles!! :2: |
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| mullysalt |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by socalJD
[B]
I consider Wallace at fault for the entire ugly incident since he could have shown his displeasure in other ways.
First of all, I'm glad to see JD, you're still watching the NBA.
JD says it's all Big Ben's fault. I am totally shocked!:2:
There were so many wrongs that took place in such a short amount of time it's absurd to blame one person or one action.
Bottom line is this, Maik raises the most valid point, players NEVER should go into the stands. Ron Artest isn't the first and won't be the last player to get a beer thrown on him. Why is it one minute he's lying on the table not wanting a piece of Ben and then he gets doused and then "Katie bar the door" he's out-of-control, ready to throw?
That guy needs some help, bad. That's the one thing I hope comes from all this; Is that somehow, someway Artest can get himself straight in the head. |
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| xfactor |
quote:
Originally posted by mullysalt
Ron Artest isn't the first and won't be the last player to get a beer thrown on him.
Also, Ron Artest isn't the first to reprimand bad people, and won't be the last, unfortunately... |
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| octavian |
| No, Xfactor, Ron has his own psychological problems...maybe he can get some therapy, I'm sorry, maybe he can AGAIN get some therapy to solve his incontrolable rages. Apparently his first anger management therapy session did not sink in. |
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| gdot |
Okay, I'm not defending Ron Artest, I don't think he should have gone out into crowd in the first place. But, I understand how he was thinking at the moment.
From what I saw, it didn't really look like he actually threw any punches at the guy. It just looked like he was trying to shove the guy's face into the seats, kinda like how Big Ben was doing to him a minute earlier. It was only after Stephen Jackson ran up there and some guy threw a full cup at him that punches started flying and all hell broke loose. So, you can't really put the blame on Ron alone. If none of his teammates followed him up into the crowd or none of the other 'fans' put their hands on the players. It would have not been as bad as it was.
When the two guys who came out on the floor and got cold-cocked, they got what they deserved. There was no reason at all for any fan to be on the floor. If I were a player and people rushed the floor during a melee like that, I definitely would be trying to protect myself.
BTW, didn't Vernon Maxwell get suspended for only 10 games for going out into the stands and punching somebody? |
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| xfactor |
quote:
Originally posted by gdot
...BTW, didn't Vernon Maxwell get suspended for only 10 games for going out into the stands and punching somebody?
Yes. That is why I am puzzled at the people who are 'shocked' by the response of Artest. I'll say again, HE WAS NOT THE FIRST, NOR WILL HE BE THE LAST TO PERSONALLY ADDRESS BAD PEOPLE IN A SPORTING ENVIRONMENT. All this piling on, as if it was unprecedented, is a reminder on how short peoples memories are. The one constant in the equation of all these incidents are BAD FANS. |
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| socalJD |
quote:
Originally posted by mullysalt
First of all, I'm glad to see JD, you're still watching the NBA.
JD says it's all Big Ben's fault. I am totally shocked!:2:
Ah, Mully, knew I could count on you to mis-quote me again . . . :4:
I like Ben, wish he were a Laker, be a perfect complement to #8, but I digress, the point I'm making is if you give Artest a season suspension, then give Wallace the same - as a precedent to anyone else that wants to throw a punch/slap/shove at another player during a game. Keep in mind that's not my logic, but just applying Stern's logic as to why the 3 Pacers were slapped so hard by the commissioner's office. I agree that so many things went ugly & wrong that you cannot single out 1 event, but Stern is trying to nip this thing in the bud and I feel he has to include Big Ben IF he's gonna smack down the other 3 players - this will be a case study to scrutinize for years after all the dust settles . . . |
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| JimH |
All the the overcrazed (drinking too much possibly) fans and players involved in this mess are at fault. I assume the reason(s) for the stiff suspension is due to: 1. A player going into the stands can hurt innocent folks who happen to be in his way (such as children, women, and folks who have nothing to do w/ the disturbance),
2. Everyone associated with the event is then subsequently brought to court via a lawsuit and, 3. The suspension was meant to be a real deterrent, where even 'wannabe' basketball players/rap-artists are truly hurt by losing the millions in their pay for the year.
All folks involved in the disturbance are at fault, and all should get what is respectfully coming to them via the law or NBA sanctions imposed. |
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| mullysalt |
quote:
Originally posted by socalJD
I consider Wallace at fault for the entire ugly incident since he could have shown his displeasure in other ways.
How did I misquote you?
Too much sun on your brain again JD.
You blame Ben and that's fine, that's your opinion. Where you are incorrect JD is your notion of Big Ben wanting to play on such an inferior team as the Fakers. :4: |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by mullysalt
How did I misquote you?
Too much sun on your brain again JD.
You blame Ben and that's fine, that's your opinion. Where you are incorrect JD is your notion of Big Ben wanting to play on such an inferior team as the Fakers. :4:
Hey, at least Bryant is leading the league in scoring, right?
Miami 9-4
LA 7-5 |
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| xfactor |
| I think it is a concensus that the Lakers are a lottery team ... for the time being... I'ts fun listening to all the haters pile on the Lakers now. I guess I understand, the haters don't have many opportunities to talk, so now is the time...:rolleyes: |
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| laborlitigator |
I really don't hate the Lakers. . . it's the rapist I've got the problem with.
He embodies everything that is wrong with the NBA today.
It's unfortunate he plays for a team that had immortals like Magic and West who thought of nothing but team. |
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| xfactor |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
I really don't hate the Lakers. . . it's the rapist I've got the problem with.
He embodies everything that is wrong with the NBA today.
It's unfortunate he plays for a team that had immortals like Magic and West who thought of nothing but team.
Hmm, please enlighten me. I was not aware of the 'rape' he committed. As far as I know it was a 'he said, she said'... I was not present when the incident occurred, so I wouldn't know one way or the other.... Was there a conviction in a court of law that I was not made aware of?:confused: |
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| socalJD |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
I really don't hate the Lakers. . .
It's unfortunate he plays for a team that had immortals like Magic and West who thought of nothing but team.
LL, your complete ignorance is somewhat amusing. I'll discount the fact that you reside on the east coast and all your facts & sports info is controlled by the media, but please do some actual RESEARCH before you make statements that are UNTRUE:
1. Magic became immortal because an aging & realistic Abdul-Jabbar knew the time had come to defer to a younger, rising star. Note that KAJ prolonged his career and won many more titles by doing this. Also, not to knock Magic, but he forced out his head coach (Paul Westhead) and the team's starting point guard (Norm Nixon) in order for him to take control of HIS team (not exactly thinking of nothing but team).
2. West as a GM had several clashes with Buss on control of the team. The only reason he left the Lakers is because he wanted absolute control - it was not over $$$ or ownership, since Buss was willing to give him equity to keep him. If West thought of only the team, he would have put his huge EGO aside, stayed at the only franchise he has ever known and perhaps may have been able to keep Shaq & Kobe together. Elgin Baylor is another GOOD example of an aging star player that deferred to a younger, rising star, which allowed West to become 'immortal' . . . |
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| socalJD |
quote:
Originally posted by mullysalt
How did I misquote you?
Too much sun on your brain again JD.
You blame Ben and that's fine, that's your opinion. Where you are incorrect JD is your notion of Big Ben wanting to play on such an inferior team as the Fakers. :4:
Mully, go back and carefully re-read the posts. Never said Ben wanted to be a Laker, that was just wishful thinking on my part. Never blamed Wallace because he's a Piston, have too much respect for his game, but blamed him for going after Artest at that point in the game (12pt deficit, 45 secs left, etc). Not sure if you watched the game, but Ben did smack Artest on a similar play, I think it was late in the 2nd qtr, and this was no doubt pay-back. The game I watched was very physical, lots of hard fouls and dirty play on both sides, yet everyone wants to focus on the last 50 seconds.
I guess it's your nature to try to throw fuel on the fire - I know you're trying to bait me, but it ain't gonna work. Flame away and take your cheap shots, don't matter to me, Lakers will rebuild as they always do, and purps like you will lurk around to find others to pick a cyber fight with . . . |
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| mullysalt |
quote:
Originally posted by socalJD
I guess it's your nature to try to throw fuel on the fire
.
Who me? Never. :8:
P.S.-nice win over the Irish, JD. |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by xfactor
Hmm, please enlighten me. I was not aware of the 'rape' he committed. As far as I know it was a 'he said, she said'... I was not present when the incident occurred, so I wouldn't know one way or the other.... Was there a conviction in a court of law that I was not made aware of?:confused:
Yeah, and OJ didn't do it either. . .
:19: :19: :19: :19: |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by socalJD
1. Magic became immortal because an aging & realistic Abdul-Jabbar knew the time had come to defer to a younger, rising star. Note that KAJ prolonged his career and won many more titles by doing this. Also, not to knock Magic, but he forced out his head coach (Paul Westhead) and the team's starting point guard (Norm Nixon) in order for him to take control of HIS team (not exactly thinking of nothing but team).
If I recall, through interviews I saw, the first person Magic attempted to work with when he arrived there, was Kareem, because he knew that he needed him to win. Kobe and his ego, on the other hand, couldn't stand being in the shadow of Shaq, who is still probably the most dominant big man of all time. But rather than collecting rings along the way, he breaks up a great duo. And if you don't think that, pick up Phil's book which is absolutely fascinating.
As for Magic pushing out Westhead, he kinda chose the right coach, don't ya think? Kobe pushed out a 9 time championship coach.
As for your argument regarding ego on the part of Jerry West, you're obviously not making an impartial assessment. It sure wasn't Jerry that broke them up.
Look at this, Kobe ran out Shaq, Phil and Jerry West with his antics. That's 4 + 11 + 10 = 24 championships between those three. |
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| A2MDXer |
quote:
Originally posted by socalJD
Mully, go back and carefully re-read the posts. Never said Ben wanted to be a Laker, that was just wishful thinking on my part. Never blamed Wallace because he's a Piston, have too much respect for his game, but blamed him for going after Artest at that point in the game (12pt deficit, 45 secs left, etc). Not sure if you watched the game, but Ben did smack Artest on a similar play, I think it was late in the 2nd qtr, and this was no doubt pay-back. The game I watched was very physical, lots of hard fouls and dirty play on both sides, yet everyone wants to focus on the last 50 seconds.
True, but at that point it's still a game. When the game is basically over, players tend to retaliate for hard fouls. Plus, Artest is the same guy that gave a cheap shot to Prince I believe in the playoffs last year. I am sure Ben has been watching out for Artest (you make your own bed) and when an unneccesary foul happened at the end of the game, it's not all that surprising that Wallace responded - in part he was sticking up for a teammate from a dirty play from last year. Yes, he should be suspended (and he accepted it) but not like Artest. It's one thing to shove another player - it's something else to enter the stands (this has always been a line) and assault a fan that replays have shown was NOT the person that threw the cup. If you do not protect the fans they may stop coming (that is Stern's position). The cup-thrower deserves whatever he gets (the prosecuter intends to file something and that person has had his tickets revoked I believe). Stern cannot allow fans to be assaulted like this. And if you plan on suspending every player that shoves another player for the year, Shaq will not be playing ball most years b/c other teams would start sending goons (more than occurs already) to provoke Shaq and other stars and getting them suspended for the year. |
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| xfactor |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Yeah, and OJ didn't do it either. . . :
I coundn't say? I wasn't there... Were you? ... Im not even an attorney, yet I base my conclusion on factual evidence, not emotion, or spurious conjecture. I would expect any reputable lawyer would understand that.
That womans case against Kobe was so weak, I'm surprised the circus lasted as long as it did. |
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