| shootist |
Got my 05 MDX a month ago. Went over the whole vehicle before title transferred, like any good paranoid would. Even pulled up the pant legs on a brand new suit and knelt down on scrawny bare knees to check the undercarriage. Checked hitch installation, and saw added cooler in front of grille.
Two weeks ago, I checked for both coolers out of curiosity. Only found one. This past weekend, I downloaded installation instructions from hondacuraworld.com and examined hard. Finally proved to myself that the dealer had only installed the power steering cooler, and had never installed the automatic transmission cooler!
Took it back to Acura of Manhattan. They report that they're ordering a tranny cooler, and will install it by Friday.
Now- you decide- did the dealer neglect to install the transmission cooler (after pulling off the front bumper to get the PS cooler on), or did the dealer intentionally omit the tranny cooler to save money? In other words, do you think this was negligence or fraud?
I've already made up my mind- you decide for yourself.
I haven't towed anything yet, so I haven't suffered damages past the inconvenience of a service visit. Of course, I made them replace my buzzing subwoofer while I was in. |
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| vlam |
| I hope you are asking for something free from the dealer. |
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| laborlitigator |
| If that was NJ, I'd file a claim under NJ Consumer Fraud Act. |
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| andreseng |
| What would have been really interesting is if you towed something and blew the AT. Wonder what they would have said then?? I have to agree with vlam......push for some kind of adjustment. Whether it was negligence or fraud we'll never know. But regardless it was straight up dumb and they should step up. If they don't I'd call Acura HQ and raise holy hell....... |
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| Fabvsix |
Call Acura Corporate ! Tell them you want it "documented" on your file so they have a record of it. That is what saved my ass when I called them about other "stuff" like when a Honda dealership in Louisiana attempted to screw my parents over, boy I proved them wrong, even got someone fired ! Document, document, document all your complaints with the appropriate folks !
Then you wait a few days and that dealerhship should be calling you kissing your A$$ ! ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
I like to be "king on the hill" why we paid for it ! :1: :1: :1: INTERNET IS POWER, use it to your advantage !
Nuff said ! |
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| zafer |
quote:
Originally posted by shootist
Two weeks ago, I checked for both coolers out of curiosity. Only found one. This past weekend, I downloaded installation instructions from hondacuraworld.com and examined hard. Finally proved to myself that [b]the dealer had only installed the power steering cooler, and had never installed the automatic transmission cooler!
A PS cooloer already exists. With the tow pkg, it gets swapped out for one with fins. Check to see if they even did that. http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/show...=&threadid=3840 |
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| shootist |
Zafer,
I'm sure that the PS cooler in my grille is the "Tow Package" cooler- it has two sets of fins on one side of the "U", just like my '03, the installation instructions, and the pics in the thread you mention. Thanks for your followup. |
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| Warzau |
| who knows because the come in separate boxes but the pdf files of instruction specifically call for BOTH coolers. |
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| eurohazard |
The more I think about it, the more I think it is a fraud.
A "certified" Acura technician should know the towing package calls for both the tranny cooler and the PS cooler. Since you already in that area, why not install both. It sounds like someone got real lazy and did it on purpose. |
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| jurincie |
| I vote for fraud. I am sure a "kit" like that either comes in one box or is bundled together for inventory purposes. And as stated earlier, the instructions do mention both items need to be installed. |
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| td284 |
| So assuming the tow kit with the coolers comes in one set, where did they get the other parts they installed? Maybe they aren't OEM or new. Not to add to the paranoia, but... |
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| shootist |
quote:
Originally posted by td284
So assuming the tow kit with the coolers comes in one set, where did they get the other parts they installed?
No- there are three separate boxes that are ordered individually.
These guys do a land office business in MDX's and you have to figure that every new car prep tech at a major dealer has installed many many hitch packages, right? |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by jurincie
I vote for fraud. I am sure a "kit" like that either comes in one box or is bundled together for inventory purposes. And as stated earlier, the instructions do mention both items need to be installed.
I have doubts separate part numbers would be bundled unless a conscientious parts manager at the dealership keeps them together because they were ordered as a towing kit.
There would certainly be cases where only one may need to be replaced because of damage, etc.
I believe a rear hitch can also be ordered separately even though it is part of the 'towing package'. But a dealer will not install it without the coolers.
More importantly is what Zafer alluded to. A PS cooler is STANDARD. A HD PS Cooler is not! They many never have installed either. |
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| shootist |
Wanna hear a good one?
They tried to charge me $610 for the installation of the transmission cooler!
BWAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!l
I had my Bill of Sale, of course, and calmly asked if I should see the Service Manager, the General Manager, or the State Attorney General's office first. :finger:
Took them about 15 minutes of "getting approval from Sales" and that idea went away.
Now for the followup letters.
:14: |
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| TheWorm |
quote:
Originally posted by shootist
Wanna hear a good one?
They tried to charge me $610 for the installation of the transmission cooler!
Well, if the question of negligence vs fraud wasn't answered earlier, it sure is now, isn't it? |
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| diverman |
I called them about other "stuff" like when a Honda dealership in Louisiana attempted to screw my parents over
Fab,
What happened to your parents if you don't mind me asking? I know this isn't "on topic" for this thread but just curious. |
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| ELP_JC |
Glad you got your problem resolved buddy, but don't think your car is safe for towing with that joke of a tranny cooler. The trannies on these cars are pretty marginal at best, so I wouldn't tow anything unless I had a proper tranny cooler, which means a radiating device in the air stream (like the power steering one, by your comments).
My dealer recommends that, and most kits they install include an aftermarket cooler.
Furthermore, I'd do a drain/fill every 10K miles. I'm doing just that (did my first last week, at 10,700 miles), even though I wouldn't tow anything on this car. The good news is it took 4 rather than 3 quarts specified in the manual, but the bad news is fluid didn't look like new, like it should at only 10K. Never towed or carried anything more than the equivalent of 4 adults, so that confirms how marginal these things really are, especially with the summer heat of TX. With the V8 thirst of this car, I'll NEVER buy a front drive SUV again. Have you seen the size of our transmission? Darn, I wonder how it even pushes just the 4.4K+ lbs of empty weight. No wonder why so many tranny problems. There's no space for anything bigger, especially with a transfer case in there as well (wish car was a 2x4).
Happy holidays to all. |
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| DaleB |
Actually, the transmission became even smaller in 03, and I am not sure transmission problems got worse, but I don't think so.
I would like to see a V8 SUV pull 24-25 mpg consistently at 70 mph. Got any data?
Several of us have towed on occasion, with no increase in problems. But then we do have towing kits which included the recommended coolers. Not to say this would be the vehicle of my choice if I did a lot of towing. It would not be.
The MDX is not a FWD in the strictest sense. And could not do so well on slick and snow without VTM which applies the correct amount of torque to the rear wheels as needed under most any condition.
There are vehicles now coming on the scene with V8's like the Dodge Magnum which promise similar gas mileage thanks to sequencing the number of cylinders being used depending on engine load. A great concept, hopefully it will go over better than other similar attempts. With all the Durangos being recalled, not a car company about to get my money any time soon.
You only have to look at NHTSA data if you think the MDX is only one with transmission problems.
In my opinion, Acura/Hondas should not be having these problems, but that is a far cry from thinking they are the only ones.
I think the Pilot and MDX are among the best SUVs around. That is not the same as saying they are best vehicles on the road, bar none. |
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| m2pc |
quote:
Originally posted by ELP_JC
The good news is it took 4 rather than 3 quarts specified in the manual, but the bad news is fluid didn't look like new, like it should at only 10K.
Happy holidays to all.
ELP_JC,
just wondering when you say your tranny took 4 instead of the three, how did you determine this? The dealership did this to me but after the car is warmed up and I check the ATF running, it was over an inch over the fill line. After a 3 qt drain and fill it is just about the full at hot (2003+2004 takes 3 qts I think).
I agree that the ATF looked dirty after a singel drain and fill, and I am following your change interval and hoepfully the ATF will be cleaner the next time around. |
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| Fabvsix |
Diverman:
Parents got a refurbished transmission at NO COST to them and that idiot Service rep. was FIRED ! :1: :1: :1: :1: |
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| Jin_Chris |
ELP_JC
I agree with you. I do NOT know what kind of technology has evolved since the introduction of A/T tranny. However, I do believe that it is in general better to have the larger package of tranny (with bigger design margin) for larger towing capacity to actually tow something.
I personally have owned 4 SUV's (my 04 X is the fourth one). the first three are truck-based, certainly rugged SUV's. The very first one was "diesel engine" with 5 speed manual, oh I miss that one. It took any kind of my abusive treatment until 100k miles, when I sold only with A/C problem.
Anyway, compared with all those my previous SUV's, 04 X has certainly the smallest "compact" A/T package.
What I do expect from Honda/Acura engineering is that, this A/T on MDX is very well "efficiently" designed so that it does Not require larger package. Obviously, no one can guarantee the larger is always better. With all those recent complaint/debate on MDX tranny issues, I still bought my 04 X because I thought that it is still worth to try Honda/Acura's unique technology. (we will see.....)
All in all, I do not have any plan to tow anything with my X until it is proven to be robust enough (wait until it reaches 100k miles or something without any single problem??? or more than 90% of us in this forum can pull our X's till 100k miles without many issues?)
At least, I do expect the tranny on our X's can handle the same kind of load that most of Honda Ody users put on their vans' such as 6~7 adults with luggages and so on. I will limit my usage of my X as Ody van alternative to be in safe side...... |
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| Jin_Chris |
To shootiest
By the way, regarding the vote on "negligence or fraud" matter,
If I were empowered to investigate on the root problem/cause of your case, I would first find out if it was "problem" of one single service man who did the job on yours, or if
it is wide-spread practice of the dealer internally.
If it is the problem of the techinician problem, the dealer obviously need to do something to the single employee and must show you the proof that it will not happen again. In this case, dealer needs to consider anything from "life time oil change coupon" to "the extended warranty on your tranny" as their punishment.
If it is the wide spread problem of the dealer, well, the dealer deserves nothing and needs full-fletch of treatment from Acura HQ, meaning you may want to inform Acura directly on this matter.
Of course, either way, the dealer's practice on this matter is certainly not professional. The end user customers like "us" certainly need to avoid the dealer.
As someone already mentioned, everything needs to be on the written document to support yourself in the future. |
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| shootist |
OK- I'm beginning to see a pattern here:
Just brought the X in for climate control recall, replace subwoofer and oil change. Knew what total should have been, so when I checked out, I immediately saw an extra $108 for a replacement battery (in my 05!).
The hapless service consultant tried to verify with servie dept that they had indeed changed the battery for thirty minutes, then finally agreed to my position that it would be warranty even if they had.
One way or the other, I wasn't going to pay for a new battery.
When I got home, I popped the hood to see the same old battery with three months of dirt, with the positive protective cap in the same position I left it after jump starting my wife's car.
I can't help but wonder- how many customers get taken like this by this service dept, or all service depts? If my wife had picked up the car, she would not have the knowledge to dispute the charge.
If I wanted to be self-righteous, I'd complain to Acura that their dealer was ripping them off for a battery under warranty. But that would mean that I couldn't leave my vehicle at this dealer ever again, without worrying about revenge. And, it's not my responsiblity to police their business- but only to protect my own interests. |
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| vlam |
I would go to the dealership demanding the new battery. Whether it was under warranty or not, if your service receipt state that a new battery was installed, ask for it. I would raise a big stink about it, particually when they open the service department on Monday morning (probably 7:30 when there are usually full with repeat customers).
I don't know how you are but I am a big consumer advocate and I would definitely make a scene if I were you. As for worrying about revenge? I wouldn't because if I was to go back for service the next time, a handy digital camera would be with me. I would make it a point to take pictures of the parts that they may be working on that day and show them that you are watching them closely. |
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| nightguy |
I'm not defending the dealer but mistakes do happen and they don't have the most intelligent people doing the service writing. That said, it is an inexcusable mistake but I would try taking the high road first. Damn, that's a stupid mistake though.
As far as revenge, you are right. I know a former Chevy tech that worked alongside people that would do stuff to cars. Usually the car would still be under warranty and it would be be anything major or necessarily notice but enough to make you have to to eventually bring it in again. |
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| m2pc |
You're right that mistakes happen. But when it is brought to attention, you don't resolve problem "X" and not take care of the original problem "Y".
I think they were scrambling over to take care of the disputed charge and something got lost in between.
I would give them the benefit of the doubt and give them another chance to resolve the battery issue. |
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| hammermdx |
| Another dirtbag dealer!:3: |
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| JimH |
Shootist: I am unclear if the service consultant actually said that your battery had truly been replaced, or whether it was a mistake to put that it had on your bill. If he said that it had been replaced, and they send that service bill into Acura warranty, then the dealership is ripping off off their own company---which I guarantee would not be good if this came to light?
If they said you truly got a new battery, I would take it back and have a talk to the manager of the dealership. |
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| TheWorm |
quote:
Originally posted by shootist
...But that would mean that I couldn't leave my vehicle at this dealer ever again...
Given your experience thus far, I'm confused as to why you'd even want to. Surely there must be alternatives in the area. |
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| G. COLTON |
quote:
Originally posted by TheWorm
Given your experience thus far, I'm confused as to why you'd even want to. Surely there must be alternatives in the area.
I do not know where you live, but some people do not have alternatives when it comes to dealers.
Where I live, other than the local dealer, the closest dealer is 140 miles away and the next closest is 150 miles. That does not leave many alternatives.
That said, the thing that Shootist needs to do is determine exactly what happened regardless of consequences. If the dealer is cheating customers than Shootist owes it to his fellow owners to protec them as much as possible. It it turns out the dealer is cheating Acura/Honda than this also should be reported.
I think that most likely it will be determined that the whole thing is a single, or series, of personnel mistakes. I just do not see people at the dealership trying to get revenge on him.
G |
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| JimH |
| In addition, the service records on the computer should be checked to verify that there is no "new battery" replacement shown. The records should be correct for all work that was done at the dealership over time. |
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| TheWorm |
quote:
Originally posted by G. COLTON
I do not know where you live, but some people do not have alternatives when it comes to dealers.
I live in the SF Bay Area (as it says under my username). He's talking about Manhattan. There are loads of dealers in the greater NYC area.
Not all of them may be as convenient as this particular one, but they'd be hard-pressed to be as shady based on what we're hearing.
I switched from a dealer 15 mins away to one 45 mins away so I could get competent service. Triple the distance but my stuff gets acknowledged and fixed properly, and I'm treated well.
(Concord @ 15min vs. Pleasanton @ 45min for those East Bay peeps reading this). |
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| Fabvsix |
| TheWorm: :2: :2: :2: |
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| Lance Crowley |
Hey Fabvsix:
If you don't mind what'd it cost you to trade up?
I going to see my lawyer tomorrow, don't know where I going with my problem, for sure, but, I am sure I won't keep the '03 I have now. |
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| Fabvsix |
Lance,
My situation was unique as I have a solid 4 year releationship with my dealership (Service and Sales). They valued my business as opposed to "just making some bucks". Purchasing/Servicing 3 Acura's in the past/current had much to do with it. When I bought the 04 RL, they made NO profits. They made some with regards to the 05 MDX, but not much......it is my relationship that they value more these days......Find a good dealership and cherish it !
Hope this helps !
P.S.
31K on trade of 03 MDX with 12,300 California prestine miles (never saw a dirt road or wet road, never used VTM....go figure) !
40K on loaded 2005 Navi/Res touring MDX Black on Black. Financed the difference which I just paid off last week ! :7: :7: :7: :15: :15: :18: :18: :20:
Don't WASTE your money on Lawyers ! :28: :28: :28: :22: :22: :bootyshak :28: :28: :28: |
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