| jcwCT |
My wife and I have decided to buy a new MDX Touring next week. :D We're unsure, however, whether we want to buy a 2005 or a 2004.
The 2005 does come with some new features like the XM radio and the Bluetooth cell phone setup that would be nice to have. More important to us, however, is how significant the improvements to the Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) system are.
This is from acuranews.com...
VEHICLE STABILITY ASSIST (VSA)
For enhanced control during acceleration, cornering, and sudden collision-avoidance maneuvers, the MDX is equipped with a standard 4-channel Vehicle Stability Assist (VSA) system that works in conjunction with the VTM-4, drive-by-wire throttle and ABS systems. For 2005, this system was enhanced with new sensor logic to provide active yaw control to help provide even more secure footing. Active yaw control helps the MDX follow the cornering line intended (by the driver) more faithfully and naturally, greatly enhancing its stability.
The VSA system enhances vehicle stability by applying brake force to each of the MDX's four disc brakes independently while also managing the throttle and ignition systems. An additional benefit is the limited-slip differential effect the system provides for the front wheels by applying braking force to a slipping wheel thereby redirecting driving force to the wheel with more traction.
Analyzing data that is constantly received from eight vehicle sensors monitoring speed, steering input and lateral G forces, the VSA system compares the driver's control inputs with the vehicle's actual response. If the actual response is outside a predicted response range - as can happen when cornering forces exceed the tires' performance capabilities - VSA automatically intervenes with an appropriate corrective action. In the case of oversteer, VSA applies braking to the outside front and rear wheels to counter the unintended yawing effect. If understeer is detected, VSA applies braking to the inside front and rear wheels and reduces engine power to help bring the car back onto the driver's intended course.
The VSA system in the MDX has been carefully calibrated to add handling stability and predictability without intruding on the process of spirited driving. Whenever the system is actively enhancing the vehicle's stability, an indicator light flashes on the instrument panel. In addition, VSA's stability enhancement and traction control can be turned off with a cockpit switch while still leaving the Anti-lock Braking System fully functional.
Does anyone know how much of a real-world difference there improvements would make?
Thanks in advance for any feedback! |
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| wmquan |
This quote is the key one:
quote:
For 2005, this system was enhanced with new sensor logic to provide active yaw control to help provide even more secure footing. Active yaw control helps the MDX follow the cornering line intended (by the driver) more faithfully and naturally, greatly enhancing its stability.
It's a bit of a head scratcher. It says that there is "new sensor logic" that provides "active yaw control." This either means:
1) The 2004 already had a yaw sensor, but there's a new sensor for it. But that's not how I read it.
2) The 2004 didn't have a yaw sensor, and Acura has added it.
The funny thing is that a yaw sensor is a key part of a stability control system. If Acura didn't have it in VSA before, then those VSA's were significantly limited. It could be that the previous VSA relied only on steering, throttle, and braking inputs.
If the pre-2005 MDX's with VSA didn't have a yaw sensor, that might explain why the addition of VSA (without a yaw sensor) didn't help much in Consumer Reports' testing. That VSA might work in some situations, but not in others. |
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| mdxx3 |
| Page 19-93 of the 2004 MDX Service Manual shows the yaw-rate sensor hiding behind/around the radio in the dash. It doesn't say much about it other than don't drop it because it's sensitive. More funny is the manual says not to use an impact wrench on that sensor! It's like... who wants to drag an impact wrench into that area?! |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxx3
Page 19-93 of the 2004 MDX Service Manual shows the yaw-rate sensor hiding behind/around the radio in the dash. It doesn't say much about it other than don't drop it because it's sensitive. More funny is the manual says not to use an impact wrench on that sensor! It's like... who wants to drag an impact wrench into that area?!
Ah, that is great information, thank you! So apparently there was a yaw sensor before. We don't know how much the new one has improved, but it was sensing yaw before.
So it appears that the MDX's VSA has always been decent, even if it didn't correct some of the issues that CR initially saw.
I was wondering because the VSA in the old TL-S was revealed to be "two wheel" rather than "four wheel" by Acura in an announcement about the new TL (which has four-wheel VSA). I've never heard of a stability control system being implemented across just two wheels! |
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| shootist |
VSA has always been based on a yaw sensor. THe 2005 news says it clearly - "Improved yaw sensor logic" That means they tuned up the software code a bit.
I wouldn't buy a 2005 over a 2004 if your only criterium is the effectiveness of the VSA. You'd never see the difference. If you drive past the limit of VSA in a 2004, you're probably driving past the limit of VSA in a 2005, too.
However, I wouldn't buy a 2004 out of pure economics. Most 2004's don't sell for less than invoice. Many 2005's sell for invoice plus 1000-2000. THe 2005 invoice is $1,000 more than the 2004. So, a 2005 will be about 2000-4000 more than a 2004. As soon as you drive off the lot, the accumulated depreciation on a 2004 will more than eat that difference up.
And that analysis anticipates you are paying cash, rather than financing. The monthly difference in a $4,000 increase, with some kind of trade in, would be what? $50-$100 over 48 months?
But most important, the XM/OnStar/GPS & Voice improvements in the 05 are really cool. |
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| crmsnidol |
| There must be a yaw sensor in the 2003 because its listed on the easter egg navi screen. Here is a shot of mine: |
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| Echo2625 |
If it were me, I would buy an '04 Touring model and save a ton of cash up front. They are selling the remaining '04s in my area at $1000 under invoice due to a $1000 retail incentive from Acura. They would probably cut you some great deals on accessories etc. as well.
My guess is that you would save atleast $3000 to $4000 buying an '04 with the extra savings and the '05 price increase factored in.
Good luck! |
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| G. COLTON |
| Just figure the rate of return on your savings on buying the 04 vs 05. Carry that rate for the period you will own the vehicle. Then subtract the amount that you think the 05 will be valued over the 04 at the time of you next vehicle trade or sell. If the answer comes out negative you are financially better off with the 05 and if it is positive the 04 is the best buy. It all hinges on the time value of money. |
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| BlueStreak |
I'd lean towards the 05 model as well.
One area the MDX has been critizied by the automotive press has been in the category of emergency handling and stability control. The press has said the vehicle didn't feel as secure to them as others they have tested in the same category. This is why (I believe) the VSA has been updated and improved. Last month in the icy midwest I tried to spin the X out & slide it sideways and the corrections to the vehicle I thought were a bit abrupt. They were made timely, just a bit forceful. Others may be able to comment here on their experiences with this. All I can compare this to is my Corvette, which (I believe) does a great job of controlling the vehicle.
Read Consumer Reports and other automotive reviews and they will share much more information on their test results. Safety and control is still #1 with me when considering a vehicle. |
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| IntaminFan628 |
| If you plan to sell your vehicle in the next four or five years then an '05 would be better because it will have a better market value. But if you plan to keep the car till it is pretty old then an '04 would be better, IF you can deal without XM and onstar. the only thing is that 04s may be hard to find now since the 05 has been out for 3 months now. |
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| wmquan |
So it would appear that Acura has improved the logic behind the yaw sensor. I wonder if it's just a software upgrade. And if so, could that same software upgrade be applied to pre-2005 models with VSA?
I would go for the 2005 as well. The difference in price won't be huge, especially factoring in resale value. Moreover, the few extra goodies that will be there are nice to have. A lot more phones now have Bluetooth and the Bluetooth integration in the 2005 MDX is a great feature. |
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| mdxx3 |
In general I would say to go for the 2005 model... because it's already 2005 plus this model has some nice stuff that the 04 doesn't (never mind the VSA differences for now).
However if you plan to put in 60k miles in the next 3 calendar years then the 2004 model will come in handy. It will average out to be 15k miles per year and that will be kind of normal. Or if you put in a whole lot of miles like 30k or 40k miles a year, then it really doesn't matter any more - just take the 2005 model because it's a "free" vehicle (all the mileage/gas claims and other write-offs).
Just my 2 cents... |
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| Nitro |
Get the 05. If you get the 04, you'll always be thinking about the 05. At least if you get the 05, you know you have the best, until the 06 comes out that is.
Cars are like computers. Once you buy one, stop shopping, because you'll always find one cheaper and/or better. |
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| nightguy |
quote:
Originally posted by Nitro
Get the 05. If you get the 04, you'll always be thinking about the 05. At least if you get the 05, you know you have the best, until the 06 comes out that is.
Yeah. You don't want buyer's remorse that you could have easily nipped in the bud.
Personally I don't think it matters. No system is foolproof. You still should drive like you don't have it and you still need to be able to stop. I just took mine out in an ice storm and it's easy to intentionally swerve and fishtail before I can hear a brake try to correct the path. |
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