| Lance Crowley |
Try this one on for size: Had a new transmission put in my '03 at just over 30k miles and just under two years. That was late November of '04. Yesterday I noticed some slipping and some sort of locking up. Called my dealer early this AM and was told to bring it in, but, to see if I could duplicate the problem. Stopped the X in the middle of a short but fairly steep hill and then tried to accelerate up the hill. Engine revs to 4k + and the truck doesn't move. Blue smoke from the left front, smells like ATF fluid. Let the truck roll back to the bottom of the hill and took a little run at it. Made it to the top, BUT, putting the tranny in N and still was in gear, move to R and it felt like the gears engaged, but couldn't move. Drove 30 miles to the local dealer, worried the whole time that something was going to lock up and I'd be sitting in the middle of I515 in AM rush hour traffic. Left the truck running till the tech could come out and check it out, they drove it and now the can't get it to come out of a forward gear at all. The nice folks gave me a TL to use while I wait for ANOTHER tranny to come in.
To say the least I've lost my confidence in Acura. Stopped on the way back and checked out a '05 Jeep GC with a hemi. Nice ride. I depend on my vehicle and the X is proving to be much less than that. I'm very disappointed. |
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| eurohazard |
Sorry about your MDX and it's tranny troubles. That would certainly leave a bad taste in my mouth about Acura "quality" also.
But, buying a new Jeep with a fairly new engine design may not be the best way to go either. Jeeps have had dismal reliability, and my Grandfather's GC actually caught on fire because of faulty wiring. Be sure to research your next ride if you go that route.
Keep us updated. |
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| Lance Crowley |
Prior to the X we owned two Jeep GC Limited, a '97 and a '99. Both were excellent vehicles and we had not a single problem with either of them. We bought the X because it was somewhat bigger and the ride was better. We do some mild off-roading and thought the X could handle it. Now I'm concerned about it on the hiway, let alone on some back roads.
This is/will be my 7th trip to the dealer for non-scheduled issues. At this point no one has offered me an explanation as to what happened to the first tranny, let alone the 2nd one. I wonder how this issue is going to affect the trade in value of the X?
I'll grant you that the GC is new and unproven, that said I wonder what the chances of dropping two tranny in one is? |
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| nightguy |
I think they'll be able to resolve the problem. Honda usually stands behind their products pretty well, though some dealers have not done the best job of representing this philosophy. Hang in there though and insist that the job be completed to your satisfaction.
I too would steer clear of the GC. I'm amazed that you never had problems because everyone I know has had really bad luck with them. My father in law on the other hand has held onto his '88 Cherokee with manual transmission. Lots of systems have gone to hell. The HVAC is shot so having the heat on 365 days a year really sucks. In the summer the coolant always wants to boil over. But the engine itself seems to be pretty good. Of course that's pre-Chrysler. |
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| DaleB |
Acura tranny problems pale compared to the huge Durango recall and assorted Jeep problems (maybe they've improved?).
Maybe something from the GM or better yet, the Toyota store would be a wiser choice. Seems the new 4Runner with V8 would be nice, or the Nissan Pathfinder? |
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| JeffK |
Just a point of information:
Is your MDX an '03????????
I have an '03 and was under the impression that the recall was limited to the '01 and '02 - the '03 have a new, improved and different transmission.
I know the '03 Pilot has the same transmission as the '01 and '02 MDX which is also subject to the recall.
Two transmissions - check out your states lemon laws.
If you own, when it comes to either trade or sell, this could prove problematic.
JeffK |
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| Lance Crowley |
First, yes it's an '03.
Second, I will check out the NV "lemon" laws.
Third, I'm going to ask for a meeting with the Acura Rep.
Fourth, I am very sure that a report on this vehicle when I sell it will cost me.
What bothers me is that I really like the truck, the dealers have been great to me and I've been considering and RL. It looks like I'll have to go back to Lexus to get the quality I'm looking for. The only reason I don't have one of the Lexus SUV's is that none of them can be towed and that's why I'm strongly considering a Jeep; it can be towed very easily. Now before everyone jumps on the fact that I tow the X I must point out that I haven't towed it since the last tranny replacement.
In the 40+ years I've been purchasing new cars, I'm well over 15 cars, I've never had this much trouble with one. I drove a Ford van over 200k miles and replaced the fuel pump, the body didn't look like much, but, it ran like a charm. In the 7 years I owned my LS400 I never took it back for non-schedule issues.
To repeat, I'm very upset. |
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| shootist |
quote:
Originally posted by Lance Crowley
To repeat, I'm very upset.
You have every right to be.
Let's quantify this, to remove some of the obvious emotional issues:
1. You've decided to get another car due to the unrealiaiblity of this one. You're force to spend money at a time you didn't choose.
2. You've lost use of the MDX for several days or weeks for two transimissions. "Loss of use" has value.
3. You believe that the resale value is dimished, because your MDX may show up with two transmission replacements on CarFax. "Diminution of value" has real value.
4. Acura may offer to trade in your vehicle on a new Acura, and you don't want a new Acura.
Of these, "diminution of resale value" probably has the strongest chance of prevailing in an action. "Loss of use" might be used as a further bargaining chip. Either way, the real value of your claim woudl be a couple or a few thousand dollars difference between a top trade in and a diminished sale.
So, if Acura agrees to buy the MDX from you for your idea of a fair value, you get a new car of your choosing. They might not have to label the vehicle as a lemon, and could offer a used car buyer an extended warranty.
It is tough to avoid the emotions, though- a really nice vehicle that let you down. It's kind of like finding out your spouse cheated on you- sure you get the divorce, but you're still pretty psssed off.
After you see if the lemon law extends to 30,000, and you talk to the Acura factory person, check out the arbitration proceedings laid out in the owner's manual. |
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| Lance Crowley |
Good points "shootist". "Mr. Mom", I've got to look into the Infiniti QX56, I didn't know it could be towed.
I'm a little less upset this AM, now we'll see how long it takes them to get a tranny up here to LV and then change it out. If I remember correctly the last one was about a 10 hours job. They were taking the X apart when I left the dealer so I'd guess the installation would be about 2/3 of that time. I was at the dealership early and asked them to expedite the new unit out of LA. We'll see.
To be fair about this whole issue I should point out that Falconi's Acura, here in Las Vegas, has been absolutely super in all respects; friendly, helpful and each time I have had a nearly new TL to use. And, I didn't purchase my X here.
I am going to talk to the Acura Rep and see what they'll do for me, their response will determine if I continue to be a Acura customer.
Acura's tranny problems seem to be pervasive; I wonder how many other car forums have a thread just for tranny problems? It's starting to look to me that this issue should be addressed on a national level. |
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| shootist |
quote:
Originally posted by Lance Crowley
It's starting to look to me that this issue should be addressed on a national level.
If you report it to the NHTB as a safety defect that caused imminent danger (which it did), you might help in that cause.
I think you have the dubious distinction of being the first MDX owner to report two trannys. It's not uncommon on a few other Acura vehicle years. |
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| hhwc |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
Acura tranny problems pale compared to the huge Durango recall and assorted Jeep problems (maybe they've improved?).
Maybe something from the GM or better yet, the Toyota store would be a wiser choice. Seems the new 4Runner with V8 would be nice, or the Nissan Pathfinder?
If I can add my $.02, I would agree with DaleB. I traded my 02 MDX for a 04 V8 4Runner and I love it. Go take a look, I don't think you'll be disappointed. |
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| crmsnidol |
| My '03 will be two years old tomorrow and has approx 27,500 miles on it. Needless to say, I'll be following your story closely and hope that everything turns out alright. |
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| Lance Crowley |
Appreciate the input, I'll be sure to keep everyone advised as to how it goes. For the record Lexus/Toyota has historically been my preferred brand. I purchased the X based on two things, the recommendation of a friend that owns one and the fact that it could be towed with minimum restrictions. Just checked the list of approved towed cars/trucks and none of the Infiniti units are on it and the Lexus/Toyota list is very short, just the RAV4. One of the great features of the Jeep is that it can be towed with no restrictions and all you have to do is put the transfer case in N. Now I'm not a Chrysler/MB fan, BUT.
Just put a call into the General Manager of Falconi's Acura to start the ball rolling on my protest. Waiting for a call back. |
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| Lance Crowley |
Here's the latest in my saga of 2/2 (2 trannys in 2 months). Got a return call from the dealer and of course they said I had to work through Acura customer service.
Talked to a gal on the phone that basically told me they'd fix it and that was it. However, she opened a file and assigned a person that will contact and "work" with me.
Wrote a very nice letter on the situation and sent one to my dealer and FAX'ed a copy to Acura.
I was told that the new tranny was at the dealer and that they were in the process of installing it. Not sure if I'll hear from Service today or tomorrow. Either way they've cost me my trip to Quartzsite with my friends.
I've got a very bad feeling on this thing, but, we'll see what happens. Maybe joining the Jeep crowd again. |
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| Lance Crowley |
| It's 4:40 PM PT and I just got a call from my dealer that tells me my X will be ready for pickup tomorrow AM. I brought it in last Monday AM. Still haven't heard from Acura on the issue. Goint to see if I can talk with the tech and get a clue as to what happened. |
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| servicemanager |
| Your situation is unpleasant but it is not the norm. I see relatively few problems with the MDX transmission. We service Acura's exclusively at my facility and the MDX has been strong. I would venture a guess that less than 3% of those X's we see have ever had a transmission failure. Acura will stand behind it for you and get this situation resolved. Please don't give up on the X. |
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| myu |
| Lance, sorry to hear about your problems with your MDX. Please keep us informed of your experience even if you do decide to leave the family. Thanks. |
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| Lance Crowley |
Got a call from Falconi's Acura yesterday, we were out 'n about and we've played phone tag since then. I'm very interested in how Acura/Honda handles this situation. It will determine if remain an Acura customer or not. What's interesting is that I'm currently in Quartzsite, AZ (there's pix on another post) at the annual RV rally, with about 30 friends with motor coaches, one of these friends also has a MDX. That friend and two others have MDX's because they admired mine and followed my recommendation to purchase. Big talk around the campfire is which direction to go with our next purchase. Several were considering the MDX, now the talk seems to be heading toward the new Jeep GC. My friends are very interested in how this situation gets resolved. I belong to several RV forums and they're all asking to be informed of the resolution. A positive for the MDX was the way it handled off-roading yesterday.
We'll be back in town this coming weekend, so we'll see what happens next week. We'll be sure to let everyone know. |
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| JeffK |
Dear ServiceManager:
I hope you are joking: 3% of MDX's have tranny failures?????
If in fact that is the case, then the situation is far worse than has been reported.
3% of Tranny failures is plain and simple DISASTER!!!!
JeffK |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffK
Dear ServiceManager:
I hope you are joking: 3% of MDX's have tranny failures?????
If in fact that is the case, then the situation is far worse than has been reported.
3% of Tranny failures is plain and simple DISASTER!!!!
JeffK
Keeping it in all perspective, you need to know what years failed also. If 3 of 100 MDXs serviced had bad transmissions it would be very significant if they were all the same year.
But if half the vehicles serviced were 2003-2005 and none had bad transmissions, some improvement might actually be inferred.
Of course mileage is another factor to be considered.
We are only talking about one dealership without any other facts.
The numbers don't really surprise me. I am sure we are running somewhere close to that on this forum. Maybe 2% of all posters are reporting tranny problems. Sounds about right. |
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| JeffK |
Dear Dale B:
Sorry I must disagree.
Regardless of the years involved, a failure rate of 3% is a DISASTER.
If it is for years '01 and '02, and not '03 and '04, then the failure rate for the '01 and '02 would be even higher.
Posters on this board fall into two general categories:
Complaints (I have had a few)
Information (this Board has been very helpful)
I sincerely doubt that 3 out of 100 posts deal with tranny failures.
If what ServiceManager says is correct (which I doubt) than the tranny problem is far, far worse than reported and I further suspect would qualify a return of an MDX under state Lemon Law.
JeffK |
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| DaleB |
Again, we don't have enough facts to do more than make assumptions. I don't claim to know how many on here have complained about trannies, I just stated 2% would not surprise me. We have even had more than one complain about replacment units being bad.
If we did not consider ALL posters , just those who report mechanical problems on here it could be well above 2-3%.
But again, they don't represent all MDX owners, only a small percentage who came on here for some solace or answers.
The transmission is the weakest mechanical link in this vehicle, and nothing will change that. But the fewer complaints from 03 and 04 owners would be a good sign. But more time is needed to see if that happens. |
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| JeffK |
Dear DaleB:
I think you forgot something:
The transmissions on both the '03 and '04 Pilot and the transmissions on the '01 and '02 MDX are the same. That is where the problems are.
For 2003 the MDX received a different transmission.
I have been a poster for over two years and remember reading the numerous posts on tranny problems.
Either the dealers "stonewalled the problem" or lay the blame on towing without transmissions coolers or other owner faults.
This board was one of the first to recognize a serious problem with the transmissions.
It took more than 3 years for Honda/Acura to recognize the problem which we now know resulted in a vehicle recall of over 600,000.
This is a black mark on Honda/Acura.
I just cannot believe that Honda/Acura was not aware of the problem. I think they got away with it for so long, because both the Pilot and MDX, in all other respects are superior vehicles, especially at their respective price points.
Time will only tell, if those who bought will enjoy the very high resale of other Honda products.
It is a shame, as I would have expected much more from Honda/Acura.
JeffK |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffK
Dear DaleB:
IThe transmissions on both the '03 and '04 Pilot and the transmissions on the '01 and '02 MDX are the same. That is where the problems are.
JeffK
But are they the same transmissions?
The Pilot being a new model would be able to take advantage of recent internal mechanical changes 01 / 02 MDX owners would never see unless they had their's replaced.
We can agree Honda/Acura should have done much more to instill more confidence in their product. |
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| shootist |
Sorry, Jeff, but you and I disagree again.
quote:
It took more than 3 years for Honda/Acura to recognize the problem which we now know resulted in a vehicle recall of over 600,000. This is a black mark on Honda/Acura.
The oil jet recall was to correct a specific type of failure in the early MDX transmissions- those resulting in lockup of the drivetrain while in motion. It was not to extend the life of other transmissions.
If a "service manager" throws out a number like 3%, he's obviously not speaking from statistical knowledge. He's expressing his opinion that the failures in the MDX transmissions are few and far between. He probably doesn't realize that a 1 or 2% failure rate is considered usual and normal, but a 3% failure rate is considered catastrophic. |
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| JeffK |
Dear Shootist:
Don't really see where you and I disagree.
You agree that a failure rate of 3% is catastrophic - I said disaster. To me that is the same.
600,000 tranny's on '01 and '02 MDX's and '03 and '04 Pilots have been recalled. We both agree on that.
For '03 Acura redesigned the tranny. For '05 Honda gave the Pilots the revised tranny.
From the empirical evidence it would seem that Honda/Acura was aware of the problem or should have been aware - if not then all they had to do was read all the posts on this Board!
Best,
Jeff |
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| Lance Crowley |
Couple of points:
1. Spoke with the owner of my Acura dealer yesterday; he was very supportive of my position. He indicated that I would be contacted by Acura very shortly. I'll be back home next week and start getting the process rolling.
2. I believe DaleB mentioned that there has been at least one other multiple tranny failure. I'd certainly appreciate finding the documentation for that case.
3. To my mind the failure rate is tied to the transmission model, not to the model year. The question is; do all the '03 to '05 MDX and Pilots have the same tranny? Another question; does the Odyssey have the same tranny, if so what's it's failure rate?
4. To be very clear,a failure rate of 2 or 3% is a HUGE problem for Acura/Honda. If I remember correctly they're making something like 60k a year, that's pushing 250k vehicles; at 3% that's 7500 failures. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by Lance Crowley
Couple of points:
3. To my mind the failure rate is tied to the transmission model, not to the model year.
Exactamundo! To repeat myself:
I say Pilots have fewer failures (percentage-wise),
Furthermore I propose failed transmissions on 01-02 MDXs are being replaced with ones of the same generation used in Pilots, because those transmissions have the benefit of recent production changes which SHOULD preclude some of the failures we have seen on 01/02 MDXs.
quote:
Originally posted by JeffK
600,000 tranny's on '01 and '02 MDX's and '03 and '04 Pilots have been recalled.
First of all, the recall (oil jet kit fix) only speaks to a small number of failures, Hardly a significant factor in any failure rate. Unless we want to include recalls and not just failures.
quote:
Originally posted by Lance Crowley
2. I believe DaleB mentioned that there has been at least one other multiple tranny failure. I'd certainly appreciate finding the documentation for that case.
If by documentation you mean posts on the forum, the search has started. :4:
Here's one to chew on in the meantime:
http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/show...ny&pagenumber=2 |
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