| TheWorm |
Sony rear-projection high-def set (model 43HT20 I think). About 3 yrs old. Actually, 3 yrs and 1 month old...the warranty expired a month ago :(
Take a peek at the screenshots and let me know what's wrong. I tried the 'autofocus/autoconverge' to no avail.
The pic (any input -- 4:3, 16:9, high-def, cable, local/replay) are all the same: wide on the sides and skinny in the middle...like a sideways hourglass. Everything's blurry and stuff that should be white is RGB (and not even close to each other).
Pics follow.
Thanks! |
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| TheWorm |
| 'nother sample pic |
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| laborlitigator |
I had the same problem with an old big screen Sony. The cost to replace it was more than purchasing a new one. So we just bought a 50" LCD.
I believe it's something to do with the convergance or rods. I can't recall at this time. |
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| renov8r |
has anybody bumped/crashed into the set? Looks like the optics might be whacked...
OTOH If you can't get the manual converge to work it is probably electronic...
Where'd you buy it??? Maybe you can "extend" the warranty a bit. |
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| TheWorm |
It's a "sudden" problem. We've been out of town for the past 4 days so no one has even been home, and it was working when we left.
It does look like the 3 tubes are pointing in every direction but where they should be.
The irony is that Circuit City called repeatedly during October and November asking if I'd like to further extend the warranty; I told them NO, of course. They stopped calling after the warranty expired.
I'll have to check the 'ol Visa card. I know I get double the mfr warranty, up to one year, but my guess is that they won't double a purchased 3rd party extended warranty.
Thanks for the input/ideas so far... |
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| DaleB |
That sucks big time, Worm!
Since all guns are affected it is likely a problem in the output convergence circuit. There are STKs, convergence output ICs. It is not uncommon for those to fail in Sonys I've been told. That's not to say it could not be an associated component on the same board.
You may luck out and find it is only a blown fuse or even a loose connector. Of course, fuses blow for a reason, but it could have been a power surge. Good luck!
I got Toshiba to reimburse me for having to replace a bad video card 2 months out of warranty, after I wrote them a letter expressing my surprise that the reliability was not better in a Toshiba product, and the warranty was so short. Not an angry letter, to be sure. But I was tipped off by the tech that Toshiba has a good customer service department. :4: |
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| hondacuraworld |
Most televisions of this type have a "service" screen which is accessible with the remote. There you can adjust the dynamic convergence easily, by lining up the guns on a white grid. Almost looks to me like somebody set an unshielded speaker with one hell of a powerful magnet near the set.
Your set should have this feature. Hell, my 1982 RCA projection set even has it. |
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| dipersp |
| I agree with Tim - looks like you need a degauss. |
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| TheWorm |
Thanks for the tips...I'll report back after the service guy gets here. I think Circuit City has some radio chip in the TV...they set it off when you decline the warranty extensions :)
There's nothing but a small shelf w/pictures above the TV. I'll pull it out from the wall to see if anything magnetic (e.g. fallen speaker or mysterious child's toy) is back there before calling the service peeps.
Unfortunately, the service screens on the Sony are virtually unusable for consumers. It's all abbreviations and even with the definitions/codes I found via Google, I can't figure out the manual convergence stuff w/grid.
But I think given the severity of the problem it must be something "physical" rather than a menu adjustment. |
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| hammermdx |
| Try calling Sony directly since you are only 1 month past the warranty and plead your case......they may come to your rescue. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by TheWorm
But I think given the severity of the problem it must be something "physical" rather than a menu adjustment.
I agree, it looks outside the normal range of adjustment. I have got into the service menu of my Sony Wega and was able to improve pic quality some including geometry. But the range on the adjustments is quite narrow. |
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| TheWorm |
Service guy coming tomorrow. "Yea, I'm familier with that set; sounds like a pincushion/convergence problem".
It's pretty far outta whack. Hope it can be fixed cheap as we really like this set. And TheWife would be pissed if I had to go buy a flat panel replacement. ;)
Will report back. |
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| shootist |
quote:
Originally posted by TheWorm
...TheWife would be pissed if I had to go buy a flat panel replacement. ;)
Ahhh- now I see! Another TV struck by hubby lightning.
That happened to all my 27" TV's. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by shootist
Ahhh- now I see! Another TV struck by hubby lightning.
That happened to all my 27" TV's.
My plan is to go 'flat' in '06. All the justification of better technology and lower prices will fall in the toilet if the present set goes belly up!
Especially if it does it the week before Superbowl!!!
Any credibility I have is at stake!! :eek: |
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| TheWorm |
$hit. 3 estimates, all the same. ~$500 to replace a bad convergence circuit.
Checked w/Visa. They double the mfr's warranty but not an extended warranty.
Bottom line = SOL.
Gotta think about this one. A comparable model (half the depth) is barely 2x more. Though I must say I am a bit leery of Sony after this. It is the first problem I've ever had in 15 yrs of Sony ownership, but still... |
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| mgmdx |
quote:
Originally posted by TheWorm
...Though I must say I am a bit leery of Sony after this. It is the first problem I've ever had in 15 yrs of Sony ownership, but still...
Worm,
Sorry to hear about your TV trouble. It is a tough call.
I have had a number of problems with Sony electronics over the years. First, in the early '90s a Sony receiver/amp stopped working after being out of warranty for about 4 months. Then, in 2001 a Sony DVD player that was covered for 1 year started having problems 1 month after warranty expired. That's when I decided that I am done with Sony. :broken:
As far as TVs are concerned, I've had good luck with Mitsubishi. I still have a perfectly working 27" unit that I bought back in '91, as well as a 5-year-old 45" big screen.
Although I don't need a new TV, those 50" HDTV Plasma units are looking very enticing, and the prices are starting to come down too. If only I could find a way to justify to my wife why I need to get a new TV when the current one still works perfectly well. :hmmm: |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by TheWorm
$hit. 3 estimates, all the same. ~$500 to replace a bad convergence circuit.
Checked w/Visa. They double the mfr's warranty but not an extended warranty.
Bottom line = SOL.
Gotta think about this one. A comparable model (half the depth) is barely 2x more. Though I must say I am a bit leery of Sony after this. It is the first problem I've ever had in 15 yrs of Sony ownership, but still...
Have you tired to plead your case to Sony? Maybe they will do a split on the bill, etc. They are not very close to their customers except when it comes to spending money.
I just read a review in Sound & Vision on an RCA, Zenith and Mits RPTVs.
All 3 are HDTV included. Not just HD ready. Mits had the best picture by far. I am sure you could pick it up for 1500-1600 (MSRP is around 2000). It's about as good as a CRT rear proj. can get. So you can't hang it on a wall....it will have a better 'cinema' pic on DVD then a lot of the cheaper LCDs out there, for almost half the price. The Samsungs look about as good as the Sonys also. And if you read the hometheater forums, they are always jazzed about Toshiba RPTVs.
I am still toying with the idea of doing the same at some point, and putting more of the money I save over a true flat screen into a hot tub...! |
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| DaleB |
Most all these large screen sets will do better with a professional calibration. Avia and other test DVDs will get the set closer to ideal than out of the box. But a professional setup will give you the best by setting up the greyscale.
Many reviews are AFTER a calibration was performed. It's best done after you burn in the set a couple of hundred hours, esp. for CRT based ones. |
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| mgmdx |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
... I am still toying with the idea of doing the same at some point, and putting more of the money I save over a true flat screen into a hot tub...!
Wouldn't your money get wet if you put it into a hot tub? I suggest a bank instead. :2:
Sorry Dale, but I couldn't resist. You set yourself up for this one. :D |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by mgmdx
Wouldn't your money get wet if you put it into a hot tub? I suggest a bank instead. :2:
Sorry Dale, but I couldn't resist. You set yourself up for this one. :D
You are right!! And I will have to live that one down.....nah, safer in the mattress I suppose. :D |
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| TheWorm |
Well, told TheWife about the repair estimates and the cost of a comparable Sony (or other) CRT-based RPTV replacement is in the $1299 neighborhood.
"Just get a new one. And you may as well get something better while you're at it." Wow. Little does she know that the $ will have to come out of her Nordstrom allowance :)
Anyway, I'm limited by wall space and an existing wall unit to something ~40" wide. Ideally, I'd like to get an LCD but the larger units are quite expensive and most >40" diagonal won't fit due to their case size. I don't think < 40" diagonal is a good idea as we're coming from a 4:3 43" display and I want comparable (or better) screen real estate.
I'm leaning toward a Samsung HLP4674W 46 Inch DLP-based rear projection set (description and specs here). 46" diagnonal and the case is 40" wide. It'd fit, and it seems the only downside of DLP vs an LCD rear projection is the possibility of a "rainbow effect" on whites, so I'll have to see if my (our) eyes pick that up. I think I'm done with CRT-based rear projections.
The unit looks great and has a lot of input jacks, but does lack a few nice features, including missing a CableCard slot (to get rid of a set top box), discrete selection of inputs (you have to cycle through them), and the latest 1080i/1080p LCD/DLP units (it's 720 or 788, but the 1080's are very expensive.
If anyone has any other suggestions of things to look for (DLP vs. LCD RPTV, flat LCD, plasma, key features, stretch-mode quality for 4:3 programs, or specific models) I'm all ears. I imagine I'll head to the stores this weekend and do some price-match surfing soon thereafter.
Thanks again for all the advice :) |
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| hondacuraworld |
| Piece of advice.....sell the other one on eBay. Plenty of people that have the wherewithall to fix it might give you some cash for it. Better than putting it curbside. |
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| DaleB |
Samsung has been on my short list lately. They seem to bring a lot to the table in the price range.
Have you checked out the new Epson? The 47" might fit you to a T. A ton of features (including a photo printer) for the price, and Costco has them discounted although I don't seem them on the Costco website. Have not been able to give them a good 'eye'.
http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/...12242&category=
I agree with Tim, I think ebay is a great place to SELL a used TV. I can't understand why people buy them there, unless it's a classic. Plenty of safer ways to buy used TVs locally. |
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| hondacuraworld |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
I agree with Tim, I think ebay is a great place to SELL a used TV. I can't understand why people buy them there, unless it's a classic. Plenty of safer ways to buy used TVs locally.
Simple, it's the diamond/water paradox. Used TVs have almost no resale value because people perceive them as worth nothing. My projection set is an older model, but it only cost me $50....
http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26100&stc=1
But I bet Worm's TV would still bring $100 |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by hondacuraworld
Simple, it's the diamond/water paradox. Used TVs have almost no resale value because people perceive them as worth nothing. My projection set is an older model, but it only cost me $50....
http://audiokarma.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26100&stc=1
But I bet Worm's TV would still bring $100
Again, if it's something unique or classic it has greater value. But some will buy ANYTHING off ebay. I've known people who bought things cheaper on ebay only to receive them poorly packaged or otherwise compromised. And assuming it's honest seller they can get a refund but usually have to pay shipping, not a cheap ticket for a large TV, etc.
I can look in the newspaper (remember those?) and find all kinds of used TVs ..and I can see them first hand. If I am online I can get a local edition of craigslist.org for my city and review or post ads free.
I think even selling worm's set locally may have distinct advantages, if a smaller audience. He does not have to package or ship for starters. He may in fact get a true 100 bucks from a TV repair shop who will even come by and pick it up. Those people still exist. It's certainly worth a try before searching for an extra large box and tons of shipping peanuts.
I almost got burned on PayPal when my account was hijacked, so maybe I am extending some of my anger towards ebay. But it did awaken me to more values around my own community and made me more hesitant to order things online that in the end, are no less expensive and add delays, for the small convenience of using keystrokes instead of taking a leisurely drive downtown. |
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| TheWorm |
I did notice that Epson unit when surfing Costco, but it's too wide. And I already have 2 photo printers :)
Checked out TVs today. Going with the Sammy I mentioned above. Most screen real estate for the width that'll fit. Nice pic, all the necessary features, albeit a couple nice-to-haves missing.
But, boy, was I overwhelmed looking at the sets. When I saw the LCD and plasma displays I was second guessing myself. There's sooo much cool stuff out, even just 3 years after buying the last one (when plasmas were $20k-$30k they were easy to ignore). I was surprised by the Sony line; half of it is just not attractive (too much cheap-looking gray plastic), while the other half is real stunning design (like a big 52" or so plasma surrounded w/aluminum and a curved black glass behind it). Panny had some awesome plasmas, but I think the best pic was on the $6k++ end Sharp LCD units (1080p resolution capable, cablecard slot, all the bells and whistles).
Anyway, buying from Magnolia A/V. They were very helpful and patient (2 hrs in the store looking around). They'll match local dealers and reputable online dealers. Since the set is new, discounting is slim, so all I really got was enough discount to eliminate sales tax and delivery/setup to match the best reputable online site. Ended up at $3299 delivered, plus another $300 for the matching stand.
Now, gotta unload the broken set. Gonna give craigslist a whirl for that. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by TheWorm
I did notice that Epson unit when surfing Costco, but it's too wide. And I already have 2 photo printers :)
Checked out TVs today. Going with the Sammy I mentioned above. Most screen real estate for the width that'll fit. Nice pic, all the necessary features, albeit a couple nice-to-haves missing.
But, boy, was I overwhelmed looking at the sets. When I saw the LCD and plasma displays I was second guessing myself. There's sooo much cool stuff out, even just 3 years after buying the last one (when plasmas were $20k-$30k they were easy to ignore). I was surprised by the Sony line; half of it is just not attractive (too much cheap-looking gray plastic), while the other half is real stunning design (like a big 52" or so plasma surrounded w/aluminum and a curved black glass behind it). Panny had some awesome plasmas, but I think the best pic was on the $6k++ end Sharp LCD units (1080p resolution capable, cablecard slot, all the bells and whistles).
Anyway, buying from Magnolia A/V. They were very helpful and patient (2 hrs in the store looking around). They'll match local dealers and reputable online dealers. Since the set is new, discounting is slim, so all I really got was enough discount to eliminate sales tax and delivery/setup to match the best reputable online site. Ended up at $3299 delivered, plus another $300 for the matching stand.
Now, gotta unload the broken set. Gonna give craigslist a whirl for that.
In time for Superbowl!! Will be right over! :D
Nice choice, the sammys do look good in that price range. I actually tried to get more info on the Epsons, at the AVSForum. Kind of skimpy info though. I wish we had a Magnolia around here. Good people to deal with. They ARE very patient and helpful. Bought a nice set of speakers there once and they got their installer to give me advice on locating them for the best sound even though they knew I was doing the setup myself.
Best of luck with your new 'baby'!
(PS: Amazent told me he just got a Sharp Aquos...they are supposed to be the best LCD around. But bigger bucks then I am ready to part with.) |
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| TheWorm |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
(PS: Amazent told me he just got a Sharp Aquos...they are supposed to be the best LCD around. But bigger bucks then I am redy to part with.)
Wow - that's a lot of quarters! ;)
That's the LCD I was referring to. Truly exceptional. Their new Aquos line is just gorgeous. Aside from the fantastic picture/brightness/clarity and 1080p capability, it has pretty much every bell & whistle in modern HDTVs and a good looking case, to boot. $8k for the 45" IIRC.
They were on display on the wall perpendicular to the one I'm getting. Bad merchandising -- I actually felt like I was "settling" for my measly $3k TV because the Aquos was too close! I'll feel better when it's in the living room, I'm sure...well, at least for 30 days 'til the Visa bill arrives! |
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| renov8r |
quote:
Originally posted by TheWorm
... I was surprised by the Sony line; half of it is just not attractive (too much cheap-looking gray plastic), while the other half is real stunning design (like a big 52" or so plasma surrounded w/aluminum and a curved black glass behind it). ...
There were some huge internal problems with Sony's various fifes getting in fueds with suppliers:
http://news.com.com/Sony+cuts+profi..._3-5543775.html
The recent IBM announcement points to where Sony has decided NOT to spend on R&D : http://www.keralanext.com/news/?id=90803
Many analysts think this means that Sony has green-lighted their INTERNAL R&D that is supposed to rival the work they did with UDC: http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/P...00104/01-0418E/
http://www.universaldisplay.com/
Sepculation is that in as little as 5 years they ought to have the dream system of covering as much of your wall as you choose with as big a screen as you wish... |
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| DaleB |
The HLP4674W has the latest 4th gen. video engine. Great choice, Worm!
Actually, our size category too. 45-50". Viewing distance 9' to 10' average.
Sony does seem to have fallen off the bandwagon, and going cheap.
That is unless you want to pay 11 grand for their latest 70" SXRD display which supposedly rivals anything 'flat' to date.
Considering the average life of TVs in general, that would over $1500 a year just for the 'privilege' of owning it. |
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| remery |
Worm,,
Got my HDTV delivered the day before the Summer Olympics. I went through a similar process which I will give you the Reader's Digest condensed version. Eliminated Plasma due to cost and burn in problems. Eliminated LCD due to price and too small a screen. Eliminated traditional RP due to old technology and off course the for problems you are having. I decided on Samsung DLP but then saw a 70" Sony 70XBR950 LCD RP TV and that was it. No comparison to the others. The 70" was a bit too large for my space but th 60" was just perfect. Another concern I had about DLP is it is a relatively new technology while LCD panel technology has been around for over 10 years and is what I use for PowerPoint slide presentations. Only have to replace the bulb and it's good to go. The only problem with my choice for you is size. But since the wife has given you an open check book, buy some new furniture, you're loaded anyhow!;) If you have to have a smaller TV the WEGA series is still very good but not the picture I have. The XBR also has a built in HD tuner which means you can get local digital channels with just an antenna and if you are a satellite customer you need the antenna anyhow to get local HD channels. Cable you don't, so the tuner wouldn't be that important. You can get a lot of good HDTV info at www.hdtvgalaxy.com if you wish to seek advice beyond this forum.:cool: |
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| DaleB |
It appears DLP is starting to blossom as the one to get in the more affordable price ranges, esp. in the 45" and up category. The array is quite overwhelming when you see them in the store.
It is not too difficult after a while to see which are slightly better. It is a whole grade better to jump from RPTV (w/CRT) to true flat screen. I did not realize how much until I saw it for myself. Being a direct-view CRT junkie for so long.
Even though DLP is a 'projection process' is does not look anything like CRT based systems.
I saw a new Toshiba DLP next to a Panny and a Samsung. I liked the colors better on the Samsung, and the sharpness slightly better on the Panny. But quite honestly, the Tosh appeared to have the best of both worlds. My wife mentioned it before I did! That's usually verfication that I am seeing what I saw.
She walked in with no interest in TV at all but to humor me. After a few minutes I hear, "Oh, now I see why you want a larger flat screen. Isn't that George Clooney? Oh, WOW!" :4: |
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| TheWorm |
Well, the Sammy arrived today, and I must say WOW!
It's a world of difference from the CRT-based rear projection HDTV we had. Bright, crisp, clear. Yum yum yummy. Viewing angles are significantly wider, too, and I really like the non-glare screen.
Thanks again for all the comments; the reality is that with a ~40" opening, you gotta go for the most screen real estate that will fit, and the Sammy's design gets you 46" in that space (vs. 42 or possibly less for others). I briefly contemplated a wall-unit "renewal" but our viewing space is bracketed by a window on one side and open space on the other; there's really not much left to work with :( I'll make sure the next house has more wallspace!
The stretch mode to get fullscreen with standard def 4:3 is very good; far better than just a few years ago when we were looking (and part of the reason we ended up with a 4:3 HD set, since 90% of what we watch is standard def anyway).
Bottom line is that I think if you're buying one of the top brands (Sony, Mits, Pioneer, Sharp LCD, Samsung, Toshiba) you're in good shape...it really becomes a size/feature/design/tech preference thing. |
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| remery |
quote:
Originally posted by TheWorm
...you gotta go for the most screen real estate that will fit, and the Sammy's design gets you 46" in that space (vs. 42 or possibly less for others). I briefly contemplated a wall-unit "renewal" but our viewing space is bracketed by a window on one side and open space on the other; there's really not much left to work with :( I'll make sure the next house has more wallspace!.
Good choice, since the 46" Samsung DLP was the runner up to my 60" Sony which was only available in that and 70" sizes. If I had been space constrained like you, that would have also been my choice even through the comparable Sony LCD RP was a little cheaper.:cool: |
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| kentrogers1234 |
Now if we can only get everyone to broadcast in HDTV.....
My 50" Sammy DLP is stunning to say the least when viewing ESPN HD. |
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| DaleB |
I've been purusing numerous forums on HDTV and came to these concslusions:
All the brands mentioned, and a few others, are HOT! Very competitive. Really down to personal taste and how good a deal you can make.
A huge factor for the best picture is how good your program material is. Garbage in, garbage out. I've read very positive things about Voom but think Dish, DirecTV HD as well as HD Cable programming are not far behind.
Buying any DVD player because it has an HDMI output is not always the answer either. Performance can vary enough that you will see no difference over component inputs.
Although you might think there is a 'Standard' it's not much different than getting hardware that is 'supposedly' compatible with Windows. Unfortunately, there are differences. Not all good.
And lastly, setup. Using Avia or the new DVE (Digital Video Essentials) is a given to tame the settings down to something most useful.
And if you are a serious movie buff or videophile, having a professional calibration after a couple of hundreds of hours of burn-in is the topping on THAT sundae!!
I am finding this can be a much more daunting task than selecting the right automobile. At least with a car the differences are great enough (positive & negative) it does not take long to know what suits you best. With modern TV's the differences are not very obvious without a lot of road testing. |
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| Maik |
The best PQ will come from OTA as there is the least amount of compression. I have Direct TV and I have found the HD PQ quite good, far better than the cable offerings in my area.
As for HDMI outputs on a DVD player, I would challenge anyone to tell me they can actually tell the difference from component.
The problem with using a dvd based self calibration is that it is callibrating based on the DVD player. HD Net has a self callebration HD "show" on Tuesday mornings, I believe it is from 8AM to 8:10AM EST. I recorded it on my TIVO and have used it to callibrate the HD input on my TV. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
The best PQ will come from OTA as there is the least amount of compression. I have Direct TV and I have found the HD PQ quite good, far better than the cable offerings in my area.
As for HDMI outputs on a DVD player, I would challenge anyone to tell me they can actually tell the difference from component.
The problem with using a dvd based self calibration is that it is callibrating based on the DVD player. HD Net has a self callebration HD "show" on Tuesday mornings, I believe it is from 8AM to 8:10AM EST. I recorded it on my TIVO and have used it to callibrate the HD input on my TV.
Excellent point about Avia, etc.! It's great that they have that on HD Net.
But for those not with HD as of yet, Avia is great for getting you in the ballpark, on any TV for that matter.
OTA is often an poor option for some of us. Some so-called local signals may come in great and others worse than cable/Sat. And it's how much you want to fuss with an antenna if the signal is marginal. Sometimes it's just easier to get it off cable or satellite (HD of course) and accept a somewhat subpar but still good HD signal. |
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| remery |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
The best PQ will come from OTA as there is the least amount of compression. I have Direct TV and I have found the HD PQ quite good, far better than the cable offerings in my area...
I know this may sound like "More Flavor, no Less Filling" but I have received HD with OTA, Dish satellite (HDNet, Etc.) and now cable and the latter has provided as good or slightly better PQ than the other two. Cable has also provided sonically better Dolby Digital sound. However the PQ difference is very slight and so is the sound. To me the real issue is price and right now Comcast Cable is siginificiantly cheaper for me due to their "Dump the Dish" promotion which also incuded High Speed Internet. However for SD broadcasts for programs that would be in the analog range on cable, satellite is clearly superior. For digital non-HD the two are the same. |
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