| SCWells72 |
I gave my wife's MDX to Sterling Acura to install an XM Commander so that it would be well respected during ongoing servicing. This is because my wife is very conservative about doing ANYTHING that doesn't explicitly say "under original factory warranty" to her own car.
The rep from Sterling and I agreed on a few things:
1) The out-the-door cost including all parts and labor would be ~$200 + the cost of the bracket for the area where the RES DVD normally sits which he estimated to be about $40-50. So in my mind I estimated ~$250.
2) No wires should be showing. The installation should be as close to OEM as possible given that you're installing an aftermarket XM display unit.
3) The antenna would be run to the rear of the car (again, no wires showing) and mounted on the roof.
So my wife gets the MDX this afternoon and calls me absolutely livid. The bill was almost $400, they nicked her console in several places, they stuck the antenna onto the dash, and evidently the overall positioning and mounting of the XM Commander display looks terrible. I haven't seen it yet, so I'll weigh in with my own opinion when I see it, but she's not very happy with me (or Acura) right now.
I just called the Sterling rep and he said the price issue was some kind of misunderstanding on my part, I guess, though I'm going to push on that more after I've seen the car and can speak more authoritatively on the other issues. He said they could use heat to massage out any nicks and scratches on the console. He said they could run the antenna to the original location on the roof at the rear and that they can center the display rather than however they have it now. I asked him why they changed so many of the install decisions without calling me first, but he had no answer.
My wife just wants it removed and her console fixed. She's not happy.
I'll look tonight and see where we are... |
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| cycler15 |
| I understand your wife's concern about not voiding the warranty. But I don't understand why you have the Acura dealership install the XM Commander. Dealerships do not have experience with custom fabrication and installing aftermarket stereo equipment. You shouldn't have done the work at the dealership. I have NEVER heard of anyone installing a stereo system at a big box shop or local stereo shop and having that void the warranty. Hopefully everything can be fixed. |
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| SCWells72 |
quote:
Originally posted by cycler15
But I don't understand why you have the Acura dealership install the XM Commander. Dealerships do not have experience with custom fabrication and installing aftermarket stereo equipment. You shouldn't have done the work at the dealership.
Ultimately that decision came down to my wife's paranoia about ever being questioned about an install from another place. I had my doubts as well (seemingly well-founded now!) when I first called, but at least on the phone they put them to rest pretty well...made it seem that this is something they do on a regular basis.
It was pretty much using them or not having XM installed at all. I've gotten so addicted to the XM in my S4 that I just can't imagine not having it in what will likely become our "comfy road trip car" so I went with it. Like you said, hopefully it can be fixed... |
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| 04mdx4sq |
| Sorry to hear about the bad experience. If the work was done at the dealership, it was likely done by an expediter and not by someone from the dealership. Next time convince your wife it needs to be handled by a professional at a car audio shop. I would no more take my vehicle to Acura for an aftermarket audio unit then I would take it to an audio shop for routine maintainence. As far as your wife's concerns, you are protected under the Magnuson Moss Act which states that they cannot void your warranty for installing aftermarket parts unless those parts can be shown to have been the responsible for the problem. |
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| SCWells72 |
quote:
Originally posted by 04mdx4sq
As far as your wife's concerns, you are protected under the Magnuson Moss Act which states that they cannot void your warranty for installing aftermarket parts unless those parts can be shown to have been the responsible for the problem.
Yeah, I'm very familiar with Moss-Magnusson after modding my '01 GS430 heavily, but this being my wife's car, I defer to her concerns. I try not to push her. She's extremely cool and lets me do just about anything I want with my cars, short of outright throwing away money of course, but this is her vehicle and I try to be similarly respectful of her.
I understand you guys' point about going to a specialist for the particular need, but I would have assumed that the Acura dealer would retain (or sub-contract) qualified installers based on my experience with Lexus (ALWAYS the highest quality, and ALWAYS through them). Looks like I was wrong... |
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| cycler15 |
quote:
Originally posted by SCWells72
The out-the-door cost including all parts and labor would be ~$200 + the cost of the bracket for the area where the RES DVD normally sits which he estimated to be about $40-50. So in my mind I estimated ~$250.
$250 would have been dirt cheap. The XM Commander retails for $160 and if they used the Blitzsafe adapter (to connect to the factory head unit) that costs another $70-80. Assume 2 hours of labor at around $50 an hour. The bracket cost $50. $400 is a fair price. |
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| SCWells72 |
quote:
Originally posted by cycler15
$250 would have been dirt cheap. The XM Commander retails for $160 and if they used the Blitzsafe adapter (to connect to the factory head unit) that costs another $70-80. Assume 2 hours of labor at around $50 an hour. The bracket cost $50. $400 is a fair price.
No Blitzsafe. I asked but they wouldn't use it so it is using the FM modulator. They get the XM Commanders in bulk for ~$100 each according to the guy, and the bracket is $50. He said about two hours of labor which brings us to the $250 upon which we agreed. |
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| PsychoKnight |
quote:
Originally posted by SCWells72
I asked him why they changed so many of the install decisions without calling me first, but he had no answer.
Not to be a smartass, but I think I know the answer.
As you are providing a detailed list of your expectations and specifications, the service rep simply knods his head, right? He doesn't write down notes, then transfer them to the service order. How is the service tech, who didn't speak to you, and doesn't speak to the service rep (they have porters deliver the car into the service bay, and the techs work off the service order printouts), supposed to know all the particulars? This type of thing has happened to me several times, even when I've had special notations on work order, then was able to watch the technician (not dealer, franchise independent) only read one line at time, and not see the comments at the bottom until the job was done, requiring that he do it all over again, but he won't, so he simply ignores the comments or claims it was done. One reason I was driven to purchase specialized tools and do as much of my own work as possible.
Too late now, but if you would have made plans with the dealer rep, then posted your plans here for feedback, you might have been able to convince your wife to take the car to a high end autosound shop. At the least, you would understand that FM Modulation negates the digital benefits of satellite music. You get a double-drawback, signal fade w/ overhead obstruction, and signal deterioration/distortion from multiple signal conversion, radio freq re-transmission and subsequent reception. I know FM mods are direct-inject and don't play through the air, but the deleterious effects are still present.
Sorry you had this experience, but a competitive sound shop survives on the reputation of their installs and has both more experience (its all they do) and more at stake in implementing custom integration. Unfortunately, I think if your wife demands that the dealer remove all the parts, they will charge labor equivalent to the install, and the nicks on the console cannot be completely disguised, just softened.
Perhaps you could give her a really good rubdown tonight, followed by a particularly generous form of intimacy on your part to take her mind off of the matter, and extend forgiveness to you.;) |
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| csimo |
I'd be livid if I had XM installed and they used a FM modulator! That's like playing a DVD on a 12" black and white TV.
Antenna on the dash? Nicks in the console? FM modulator?
It's much easier to do it right the first time. Now you've got a pitiful mess and she's got a right to be majorly pissed off. I know I would. |
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| PsychoKnight |
quote:
Originally posted by csimo
Antenna on the dash?
Oh, that reminds me. Aside from instructions that the antenna should be mounted at the highest point atop the vehicle for obvious reasons, XM & Sirius antennas both require aprox. 1 sq. foot of metallic surface area under the antenna to collect the signal (like a satellite dish). For fiberglass trunks & roofs, both companies sell a sheet-metal accessory to attach to the underside of the roof or trunklid. The antenna mounted on the dash will work horribly, if at all. But I'm dying to know for sure, are you getting okay reception? |
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| SCWells72 |
So, I came home and looked for myself. I have to say that my wife severely over-reacted. The install is actually pretty damned good. I am going to ask them to center the display in the console area (it's right-aligned now), but overall I'm pretty impressed.
The "nicks" she told me about are literally two tiny (a little larger than a pinhead) spots where the plastic of the console that are slightly discolored as it meets the plood. Hell, a paint pen or sharpie would completely disguise them. They did seem to loosen the cupholder cover a bit, so I'll have them address that as well. Otherwise things look fine.
As for the quality of reception with the antenna mounted on the dash, I didn't notice any issues. I have several friends who have installed their own XM receivers and decided to keep the antenna inside for various reasons (one has a 350Z Roadster and there was no place to put it that wouldn't mar the lines of the car), and they've worked fine for more than a year. In fact, Grubbs Infiniti in Dallas recommends dealer-installed XM over factory XM on their G35s because they'll use an internally-mounted micro-antenna that's practically invisible to anyone not looking it.
I do agree that FM-modulated XM doesn't sound quite as good as the direct-wire XM in my S4, but it does sound better than I'd expected. I would put it somewhere between OTA radio and CD quality.
I'm going to call the rep tomorrow and try to work out the pricing issue, repairs on the console and cupholder, and repositioning of the display unit. Assuming they do that I'll consider this situation turned around.
By the way, I posted this looking for constructive conversation. I'm quite disappointed by some of the condescending responses I've seen here, but not entirely surprised, I guess. I worked out the details with the Acura aftermarket rep on the phone, not in person. I felt comfortable with him based on our conversations, and after seeing the results, I actually feel compelled to apologize to him tomorrow because it seems his team did a pretty good job after all. No, I don't feel we got the same level of service I've come to expect from Lexus over the past 4.5 years, and perhaps I set my expectations falsely based on that experience. Now I remember that Acura's service isn't quite up to par, but it's been five years since I've owned an Acura, so I guess that I'd forgotten. I'll take that into account with any future dealings. |
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| PsychoKnight |
quote:
Originally posted by SCWells72
By the way, I posted this looking for constructive conversation. I'm quite disappointed by some of the condescending responses I've seen here, but not entirely surprised, I guess. I worked out the details with the Acura aftermarket rep on the phone, not in person. I felt comfortable with him based on our conversations, and after seeing the results, I actually feel compelled to apologize to him tomorrow because it seems his team did a pretty good job after all.
What did you want people to say? What would be really condensending is if I said that if you would have waited until you inspected the work yourself, you probably would not have started the thread in the first place. There's no point to sharing about mistakes and then defending them. The idea is we try to learn from each other, even when its sometimes embarrassing. In any case, glad it turned out okay. Final thought; knowing what you know now, would you have still done it this way? |
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| TheWorm |
It took me all of 10 minutes to install the XM antenna on the roof where it belongs (it's atop the crossbar as detailed in another excellent XM installation thread). That was my first try; I could do it in 5. An experienced person could place it just aft of the existing roof antenna in about 30 minutes, IMO.
Grubbs' recommendation for an interior install for aftermarket XM is purely aesthetic. Infiniti's OEM antenna is large with a big fat tail on it; it ruins the lines of the car, especially since the roofline is smooth. And the most common (and IMO best) install for that configuration is on the rear deck @ the bottom of the glass.
But we're talking about a sport ute with ridges in the roof, a rack & crossbars, and an existing antenna. Plus the fact that 95% of the population isn't tall enough to see an antenna up there anyway. Sorry, but there is no valid rationale for installing an XM antenna on the dash of an MDX except for sheer laziness. Nonetheless, you'll probably get OK reception since the front glass is large and the delphi micro antennas are outstanding. My guess is any difficulty you'll have is driving northbound since the sats are to the south.
I replied in your other thread re: the Blitzsafe. If you're going to be listening to music I don't think an FM mod is the ideal solution. The Blitzsafe plugs into an existing, empty CD changer port, and is easily installed and removed. It's really no different than plugging in your cellphone charger. Sure, the dealer could blame a Blitzsafe if your radio dies, which I why I suggested removing it in case of such an occurence (however incredibly rare that has proven to be).
My constructive part of the conversation is that IMO installing a Commander should not take any more than 1 hour. I'm not sure what bracket they're using but I'm not familiar with any bracket that exceeds $30 (Panavise, ProFit, or otherwise). That, plus the cost of the Commander itself and 1 hour labor should've put you @ the $250 mark you agreed to. I'd be really interested to hear how they managed to hit $400, especially if any more than an hour of it is labor. And I'd insist the antenna be mounted where XM, Delphi, and everyone else who installs these things knows it should be: on the roof.
I'm curious to know why you chose the Commander over the Roady2. The Roady2 isn't much larger (still fits under the stack) and has a built-in FM-modulator. It also costs less. |
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| Warzau |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
What he said.....^
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| timbrwolf9 |
quote:
Originally posted by PsychoKnight
Oh, that reminds me. Aside from instructions that the antenna should be mounted at the highest point atop the vehicle for obvious reasons, XM & Sirius antennas both require aprox. 1 sq. foot of metallic surface area under the antenna to collect the signal (like a satellite dish). For fiberglass trunks & roofs, both companies sell a sheet-metal accessory to attach to the underside of the roof or trunklid. The antenna mounted on the dash will work horribly, if at all. But I'm dying to know for sure, are you getting okay reception?
I have my XM antenna installed at the passenger side very bottom of my windshield using an older radar detector suction mount. Reception seems fine so far with very few dead spots around town. |
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| cycler15 |
| My XM Commander antenna is also located on the dash and my install was done by a high end custom stereo shop (guess they were too lazy). Reception is perfectly fine. Even on a trip from LA to Vegas I got reception the whole trip and that is travelling north east the whole way. |
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| cycler15 |
quote:
Originally posted by SCWells72
By the way, I posted this looking for constructive conversation. I'm quite disappointed by some of the condescending responses I've seen here, but not entirely surprised, I guess.
Don't take it personally man. You just have to have a thick skull around here sometime.
BTW.... I would definitely take your X back to a stereo shop and have them install the Blitzsafe adapter. The sound quality will be huge improvement. |
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| SCWells72 |
quote:
Originally posted by cycler15
Don't take it personally man. You just have to have a thick skull around here sometime.
BTW.... I would definitely take your X back to a stereo shop and have them install the Blitzsafe adapter. The sound quality will be huge improvement.
Oh, I don't. A little frustrating, but I frequent car forums for our other cars (GS430, S4, Z3) and obviously it's the way of the forum world.
Another update for those few who might be interested. I drove my wife's MDX in this morning, and she was absolutely right that it looks worse in stronger light. Last night it didn't really look bad at all, even with the interior lights on. Today, though, I share her objections completely. Since they used the RES DVD bracket, you have three different elevations of material, one for the bracket, one for the filler which is recessed from the bracket, and one for the XM Commander itself which is raised from the bracket. Furthermore, the filler is textured and a different shade from the rest, so it looks very out of place.
I called the rep from Acura and had a VERY positive conversation with him, expressing my concerns. He's committed to fixing this by using a local audio install shop for the second pass. They're going to fabricate a new cover out of black fiberglass that will be matte and will sit flush with everything else, making for one surface. I used this as an opportunity to ask him to reconsider the Blitzsafe which he said he'd do since he really wants to resolve the situation and make us happy, so I sent him the link and the part # for our MDX. I explained all of this to my wife and she seems relieved assuming they take care of all of that.
Like I said, looks like this should work out in the end hopefully. Since I'm using the MDX for a road trip this weekend, it'll be Monday before we can move on phase two. If anyone is interested I'll post a follow-up, potentially with pics of the final install. |
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| TheWorm |
Glad they're going to sort it out for you. Some pics would be nice, esp with the custom fiberglass bracket.
Just confirming (constructively) that you/they are going to order the COMMANDER-SPECIFIC Blitzsafe (has the code CMD in it). You get integrated power feeds that way (so one less splice and fewer wires to route). |
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| SCWells72 |
quote:
Originally posted by TheWorm
Glad they're going to sort it out for you. Some pics would be nice, esp with the custom fiberglass bracket.
Just confirming (constructively) that you/they are going to order the COMMANDER-SPECIFIC Blitzsafe (has the code CMD in it). You get integrated power feeds that way (so one less splice and fewer wires to route).
Yep. The one I'll use (assuming they're fine with it) is (according to a BlitzSafe rep) the "HON/XM DMX CMD V.1 (retails for $110 and offers a direct audio connection and a power connection for the XM Commander)". |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by SCWells72
Oh, I don't. A little frustrating, but I frequent car forums for our other cars (GS430, S4, Z3) and obviously it's the way of the forum world.
You mean there is ANOTHER car forum?????
:cool:
Yeah, live and learn. We do the same every day. We don't mean to sound like a bunch of know-it-alls, even if we are. :D |
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| SCWells72 |
Just thought I'd put up a brief update to the MDX XM install story. After I told the local dealer's aftermarket guy that I was quite displeased, he was VERY cool and committed to making it right for me. They took the MDX in mid week and have been toying with fabricating a perfect match for a housing. I'm attaching before and after pics so you guys can see what I started with and where I should end up.
Oh, and the audio connector has changed from FM modulation to the BlitzSafe. That's actually a funny story, because the guy originally said no way to the BlitzSafe connector. When I was so unhappy with the install I decided to use the momentum to ask again about using it, though, and he agreed. Now that he's used it, he's opened an account for the dealer with BlitzSafe as well as their affiliate dealers, planning to use it for XM and iPod. He's been capitalizing all the custom fabrication work with his R&D budget, using my MDX as a prototype for how to do these custom installs in the future. I'm paying the original amount we'd discussed and he's absorbing the rest. So this is a major turnaround!
I'll put up final pics early next week when I have the car back, but here's a preview (before and after) that the Acura guy took with his Pilot:
Before
After
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| SCWells72 |
Okay, I thought I'd put up some final pics of the MDX XM Commander install. We're quite happy with it now. Joseph Lao from Sterling Acura bent over backwards to make us that way, so I give him the highest recommendation. Interested to see what others think.
Scott
Daytime look
Not an ashtray and power port still functional
Nighttime look
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| hammermdx |
| Looks great, glad it all worked out! |
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| PsychoKnight |
quote:
Originally posted by cycler15
My XM Commander antenna is also located on the dash and my install was done by a high end custom stereo shop (guess they were too lazy). Reception is perfectly fine. Even on a trip from LA to Vegas I got reception the whole trip and that is travelling north east the whole way.
I'm sorry your high end shop was too lazy. I've seen antenna's all over the place at soundoffs; inside sedan trunks, under the chassis, fender wells you name it. Just like the MDX antenna located above the roof line, it will work inside the rear quarter panel next to the subwoofer (I know, had to use it that way after a roof-involved "incident" on a trip). Just because it works doesn't make it an optimal location. Just because one reputable installer, or one know-it-all, do-it-yourselfer with an identity crisis, who writes wordy posts, chooses a certain technique, doesn't qualify it as the most researched, tested and reliable method. Optimum performance, cosmetic integration and labor saving practices are major considerations, and are usually at odds with each other. |
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| TheWorm |
quote:
Originally posted by PsychoKnight
Optimum performance, cosmetic integration and labor saving practices are major considerations, and are usually at odds with each other.
Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes: "Do you want it done fast, correctly, or cheap? Pick two."
SCWells72 -- The new install looks good; glad it all worked out for you. |
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| timbrwolf9 |
quote:
Originally posted by PsychoKnight
I'm sorry your high end shop was too lazy. I've seen antenna's all over the place at soundoffs; inside sedan trunks, under the chassis, fender wells you name it. Just like the MDX antenna located above the roof line, it will work inside the rear quarter panel next to the subwoofer (I know, had to use it that way after a roof-involved "incident" on a trip). Just because it works doesn't make it an optimal location. Just because one reputable installer, or one know-it-all, do-it-yourselfer with an identity crisis, who writes wordy posts, chooses a certain technique, doesn't qualify it as the most researched, tested and reliable method. Optimum performance, cosmetic integration and labor saving practices are major considerations, and are usually at odds with each other.
PsychoKnight, I sent you an PM but thought I would post here as well.
How well did the XM antenna work when placed inside the rear quarter panel? I like that placement idea. |
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| SCWells72 |
quote:
Originally posted by timbrwolf9
I sent you an PM but thought I would post here as well.
How well did the XM antenna work when placed inside the rear quarter panel? I like that placement idea.
Actually the antenna is placed on the dash right now by the right A-pillar. Not entirely inconspicuous, but not out of sight, either. Works fine there, though. We haven't had any outages that I don't get with the factory-installed XM on my S4. |
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