| hammermdx |
quote:
Originally posted by dj-mdx2
So people are selling places in line now? Sheesh...
Place in line for Lexus hybrid
Beats working for a living.:2: |
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| BlueStreak |
quote:
Originally posted by dj-mdx2
So people are selling places in line now? Sheesh...
Place in line for Lexus hybrid
....and what did PT Barnum say? |
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| nightguy |
I don't understand this. Is he saying $48k for the car and an additional $10k to him for being the agent ?
I know there's a demand for these with fuel prices going up but I just don't see paying more than sticker upfront for a fad based on 100 year old technology that frankly just isn't well proven yet. I don't care how long they extend the cell warranty. Build something that doesn't rely on internal combustion and I'll be interested. I know I'm in the minority on this. |
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| Blackura |
You must have missed the endless stream of Prius sellers doing the same thing... but for $8,000- $10,000. And yes, they got bids.
Supply and demand. It's the American way. The rich buy whatever they want when they want it. The poor wait on line for leftovers. |
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| laborlitigator |
| I'll shove the 10K up his . . . :shutup: |
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| wing2299 |
quote:
Originally posted by nightguy
I don't understand this. Is he saying $48k for the car and an additional $10k to him for being the agent ?
I know there's a demand for these with fuel prices going up but I just don't see paying more than sticker upfront for a fad based on 100 year old technology that frankly just isn't well proven yet. I don't care how long they extend the cell warranty. Build something that doesn't rely on internal combustion and I'll be interested. I know I'm in the minority on this.
Not to mention the premium over the regular RX330. How much gas you could save in 10 years? |
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| dj-mdx2 |
quote:
Originally posted by nightguy
Build something that doesn't rely on internal combustion and I'll be interested. I know I'm in the minority on this.
Isn't Honda developing that technology already?
http://world.honda.com/FuelCell/ |
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| nightguy |
quote:
Originally posted by dj-mdx2
Isn't Honda developing that technology already?
http://world.honda.com/FuelCell/
Yes, developing. They're being tested but afaik I can't buy one. Though I do believe some service station near me does have a pump dedicated to hydrogen. I don't think it's operational yet. |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by dj-mdx2
So people are selling places in line now? Sheesh...
FYI - as an Old-Timer on this site and the proud owner of an '01 MDX I can assure you that many folks were selling their place in line for the MDX back in '01. A Search of this website will find many threads and posts discussing the long waits for the early MDX. We ordered ours on 1/2/01 and took possession on 3/20/01 feeling fortunate that our wait was less than 3 months. :cool: :1: |
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| Dick at Incline |
People are nuts, trading in their perfectly good low-mileage, nearly new SUV for a Prius--mainly because of gas prices. I ran the numbers on my '03 MDX (purchased new). If I drive it 14,000 miles/year for 5 years with gas prices at $1.75/gallon it will cost me an estimated 71-cents per mile. With gas prices at $2.50/gallon it would cost me 75-cents per mile. (Most of the cost is depreciation and BTW I always burn regular gas).
So why should I trade in a perfectly good MDX,with the Safety and Comfort of a nice sized vehicle, and get a much smaller car, and start taking the big depreciation hit all over again? Bottom-line: Gas Prices should not drive your purchase decision! |
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| dmz |
It's not always about money. The satisfaction of helping in saving the environment and doing their part in consuming less oil is good enough. The saving in gas is just the icing on the cake :D
quote:
Originally posted by Dick at Incline
People are nuts, trading in their perfectly good low-mileage, nearly new SUV for a Prius--mainly because of gas prices. I ran the numbers on my '03 MDX (purchased new). If I drive it 14,000 miles/year for 5 years with gas prices at $1.75/gallon it will cost me an estimated 71-cents per mile. With gas prices at $2.50/gallon it would cost me 75-cents per mile. (Most of the cost is depreciation and BTW I always burn regular gas).
So why should I trade in a perfectly good MDX,with the Safety and Comfort of a nice sized vehicle, and get a much smaller car, and start taking the big depreciation hit all over again? Bottom-line: Gas Prices should not drive your purchase decision!
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| nightguy |
quote:
Originally posted by dmz
It's not always about money. The satisfaction of helping in saving the environment and doing their part in consuming less oil is good enough. The saving in gas is just the icing on the cake :D
Saving the environment ? These things are still using internal combustion - which is why it's pointless in the first place. The engines still have the same materials to be disposed of at the boneyard. And where do the cells go when they die ? |
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| dmz |
It's not that hard to understand. 20 MPG Vs 50 MPG. Burning over 50% less gas is less harmful to the environment and battery cells are recyclable.
quote:
Originally posted by nightguy
Saving the environment ? These things are still using internal combustion - which is why it's pointless in the first place. The engines still have the same materials to be disposed of at the boneyard. And where do the cells go when they die ?
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| eurohazard |
I would like to chime in now. Buying a Prius solely for the purpose of saving (gas) money is dumb! I normally don't like Consumer Reports, but I am going to use their figures for my argument below. Let's say a person drives 15,000 miles a year, and to keep it simple, we'll say gas costs $2.00/gallon.
_2005 Toyota Prius ($21,000) observed 35 MPG city/50 MPG hwy....CR overall of 44 MPG
_2005 Toyota Echo ($10,500) observed 29 MPG city/46 MPG hwy....CR overall of 38 MPG
_Prius annual gas cost = $681.82
_Echo annual gas cost = $789.47
Prius costs $10,500 more to purchase, it would take 97.5 months (over 8 years) to make up that difference. Here's another thing to consider: 0-60 MPH time in seconds.
_Prius = 10.5 sec
_Echo = 9.8 sec
I think Hybrid technology is awesome and worthwhile....but I am not buying one anytime soon. Thanks to those who have though! |
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| Dick at Incline |
| And, I think that Prius claims the batteries will last about 100,000 miles, so after 7 years, before you get even, you will have to replace the batteries You may not want to do that in a 7 year old car--so what do you do with the Prius now? Sell it for scrap. |
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| cardingtr |
If time has come for me to buy a car, I'll get the hybrid in a heartbeat if I get closely even in 5 years.
Think about it, who would you give your money to, Honda or Toyota that employs American workers by buying a hybrid and pay more now or..
Buying a cheaper car and buy more gas and fattening the pockets of Oil corporations and be dependent on OPEC controlled prices?
I will choose a hybrid. |
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| daggra105 |
eurohazard and dick at incline have great points. hybrids may not save you money at all unless gas prices breaks hm..$3.60-ish (rough guess).
things that were not considered;
1. cost of insurance for a hybrid vehicle
damage to batteries is pretty much considered a salvaged vehicle.
2. cost of replacement cell batteries before 100,000 miles
3. cost of replacement cell batteries at 100,000 miles or 7 years
4. cost to fix mechanical/electrical problems
just some thoughts... |
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| td284 |
| People happily pay $3-6,000 more now for big V8 engines that suck gas and can hardly be used to their fullest in most traffic situations. Seems like paying $3,000 more for a hybrid that saves gas and makes you feel better about it is a bargain in comparison. And the new hybrids, like the Lexus, give you more power too, combining the best of both worlds. |
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| Sinecure |
Reminds me of the Steven Wright Joke:
I was hanging out at the deli counter the other day...
Scalping Low Numbers! :2: |
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| Dick at Incline |
Well, I used to think the MDX was pretty big (compared to my wife's Grand Cherokee), but the gas mileage is much better on the MDX, 22 on the road. Then I see Hummer's and I wonder why someone wants a 10-12 mpg machine. But Holy-cow, did you see the new "Texas Pick-up truck" Jay Leno was driving?
http://www.popularmechanics.com/aut...no/1368287.html |
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| ScoobyT |
quote:
Originally posted by Dick at Incline
Well, I used to think the MDX was pretty big (compared to my wife's Grand Cherokee), but the gas mileage is much better on the MDX, 22 on the road. Then I see Hummer's and I wonder why someone wants a 10-12 mpg machine. But Holy-cow, did you see the new "Texas Pick-up truck" Jay Leno was driving?
http://www.popularmechanics.com/aut...no/1368287.html
One must have a REALLY tiny thingie to be insecure enough to drive THAT. |
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| nightguy |
quote:
Originally posted by dmz
It's not that hard to understand. 20 MPG Vs 50 MPG. Burning over 50% less gas is less harmful to the environment and battery cells are recyclable.
It's not 50% even if you're doing a lot of city driving. Plus you'll be spending more gas and spewing more emissions driving it back to the dealer when all those systems start to fail. The cells are not 100% recyclable. If you want to help the environment wait until if and when hydrogen is available. |
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| Dick at Incline |
quote:
Originally posted by ScoobyT
One must have a REALLY tiny thingie to be insecure enough to drive THAT.
Yes and near the end of the article--that's what Leno Says: "People look aghast and ask, “What is thhhaaattt?” Well, if the McLaren is the ultimate sports car, this is the ultimate pickup truck. Whenever I pull up to a light, I roll the window down and yell, “Do you think I have sexual problems?” |
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| Dick at Incline |
quote:
Originally posted by nightguy
If you want to help the environment wait until if and when hydrogen is available.
There's a lot of hype going on about Hydrogen for Cars, but here's the present reality.
"A recent commentary by California academic Donald Anthrop for the Cato Institute highlighted a basic problem, which is that it takes more energy to produce hydrogen than you get out of it. He figured you need 140 kilowatt-hours of energy to produce 17.4 kilowatt-hours of power from a hydrogen-powered fuel cell. Powering the U.S. auto fleet with hydrogen would require a 66% increase in natural gas consumption and major increases in greenhouse gas emissions. |
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| nightguy |
quote:
Originally posted by Dick at Incline
There's a lot of hype going on about Hydrogen for Cars, but here's the present reality.
"A recent commentary by California academic Donald Anthrop for the Cato Institute highlighted a basic problem, which is that it takes more energy to produce hydrogen than you get out of it. He figured you need 140 kilowatt-hours of energy to produce 17.4 kilowatt-hours of power from a hydrogen-powered fuel cell. Powering the U.S. auto fleet with hydrogen would require a 66% increase in natural gas consumption and major increases in greenhouse gas emissions.
I've seen this before. My point was more back to forget this idea of modifying internal combustion. It's time to move forward with something better. We can beam information around the world at the speed of light but can't seem to get the engineering to progress on a very old invention. |
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| laborlitigator |
| Some idiot actually paid $16K on top of the price of the car?!:32: |
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| Northern_MDX |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Some idiot actually paid $16K on top of the price of the car?!:32:
Although the winning bidder may be a fake
, the bidding history shows another guy with 69 perfect feedbacks bidded $16K. :rolleyes:
Oh well, it's only $$, I guess. |
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| Blackura |
quote:
Originally posted by Northern_MDX
Although the winning bidder may be a fake
, the bidding history shows another guy with 69 perfect feedbacks bidded $16K. :rolleyes:
Oh well, it's only $$, I guess.
Oddly, there's another one on eBay at only $450 with no bids. Why pay 16 large when you could pay $450 for the same thing? Something's fishy. |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by eurohazard
I would like to chime in now. Buying a Prius solely for the purpose of saving (gas) money is dumb! I normally don't like Consumer Reports, but I am going to use their figures for my argument below. Let's say a person drives 15,000 miles a year, and to keep it simple, we'll say gas costs $2.00/gallon.
_2005 Toyota Prius ($21,000) observed 35 MPG city/50 MPG hwy....CR overall of 44 MPG
_2005 Toyota Echo ($10,500) observed 29 MPG city/46 MPG hwy....CR overall of 38 MPG
...
I agree that the actual TCO's of hybrids aren't what the lofty mileage numbers suggest at first glance.
However, comparing a Prius to an Echo isn't valid for the Prius buyers I know. The Echo is a smallish compact, too small for a lot of families in the U.S. The Prius is a family-sized vehicle with passenger and cargo room roughly in between a Corolla and a Camry. Thus the Echo is a non-starter for a lot of Prius buyers, who would otherwise buy a Camry or Corolla.
While the TCO for the Corolla/Camry are likely less than a Prius, the gap would be much less than comparing the Prius with the Echo.
I wouldn't buy a Prius myself. It's just too pokey, even for my view of a family sedan. |
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| XStatic |
I am waiting for a diesel hybrid.
Cheaper fuel per gallon, more miles per gallon, less combustible in an accident, longer life engine, less maintenance, potential for running on biofuels, etc.
Diesels are best at delivering constant power for long periods of time, suffering less wear while delivering higher efficiency. While diesels offer great torque characteristics the biggest drawback is poor acceleration because of their limited RPM range.
This could be easily addressed with the hybrid technique using the electric motor to supplement the diesel under acceleration. It shouldn't be that difficult to get over 100 mpg. |
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