| sushix |
I am thinking of replacing the brake pads with these pads. Anyone herad of these pads before?
quote:
Hawk Performance HPS pads offer 20-40% more stopping power and higher resistance to brake fade than most original equipment or standard replacement pads.
More review |
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| G. COLTON |
I do not like that word Ferro in there. I think they are hyping something that may cause faster rotor wear. Brake fade is best reduced by having better cooling of the rotors.
G |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by G. COLTON
I do not like that word Ferro in there. I think they are hyping something that may cause faster rotor wear. Brake fade is best reduced by having better cooling of the rotors.
G
As long as the hardness of the rotors exceeds that of the pads, they should be fine.
These seem to be popular among racing orgs as well as various sports car clubs. etc. |
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| sushix |
| BTW anyone know who made the OEM brake pad for the MDX? Are they ceramic brake pads? I found someone selling Hawk HPS pads for $54 with free shipping on ebay. I am going to check out Pepboys first since they carry Hawk brake pads. |
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| m2pc |
| I think Akebono makes them for Honda. And I'm pretty sure they are ceramics. |
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| hondacuraworld |
| Just don't forget that when you go to a harder brake pad (like ceramic), it increases the pedal effort needed to stop the vehicle. |
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| G. COLTON |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
As long as the hardness of the rotors exceeds that of the pads, they should be fine.
These seem to be popular among racing orgs as well as various sports car clubs. etc.
Regardless of whether or not it is fine, the harder the pad, the faster it will wear the rotor.
G |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by hondacuraworld
Just don't forget that when you go to a harder brake pad (like ceramic), it increases the pedal effort needed to stop the vehicle.
Does this statement mean that the pads sold at HAWorld are not ceramic? At $53 a pair, I assumed they were. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by G. COLTON
Regardless of whether or not it is fine, the harder the pad, the faster it will wear the rotor.
G
Softer pads can develop hot spots and cause rotor warping. While not wearing the rotor more, will require the rotor to be turned more often.
Poor stopping power and fading due to heat build-up can be a bigger problem in marginal pads than ones that 'run cooler' by disappating more heat and stopping you faster.
There are always trade-offs. For me, the one that stops the best and offers the most control is more important than the one that is just adequate and abrades the rotor the least.
Racing pads and the 'old metallics' required significantly more pedal pressure, and took a several miles to 'warm up' . The beauty of ceramics is they do not have those faults. The racing-grades, if you will, will require more pressure and are better suited to different rotors for better efficiency. But standard quality ceramics will increase stopping power and reduce heat build-up with minimal brake pressure increase. |
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| hondacuraworld |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
Does this statement mean that the pads sold at HAWorld are not ceramic? At $53 a pair, I assumed they were.
They are the factory OEM pads. I'm not 100% sure of the composite, but I do not believe they are ceramic. |
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| G. COLTON |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
Softer pads can develop hot spots and cause rotor warping. While not wearing the rotor more, will require the rotor to be turned more often.
Poor stopping power and fading due to heat build-up can be a bigger problem in marginal pads than ones that 'run cooler' by disappating more heat and stopping you faster.
There are always trade-offs. For me, the one that stops the best and offers the most control is more important than the one that is just adequate and abrades the rotor the least.
Racing pads and the 'old metallics' required significantly more pedal pressure, and took a several miles to 'warm up' . The beauty of ceramics is they do not have those faults. The racing-grades, if you will, will require more pressure and are better suited to different rotors for better efficiency. But standard quality ceramics will increase stopping power and reduce heat build-up with minimal brake pressure increase.
I agree with all you way. However, that has no bearing on the subject:whether or not harder pads will abrade the rotor more.
G |
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| hondacuraworld |
Don't forget that you're dealing with two friction surfaces, and whenever there's friction, there is wear. Most of the wear that occurs on brake rotors comes from turning them on a lathe, or if there is metal to metal contact.
I've seen rotors last 100K or more. It's heat dissipation, not wear that's the issue. Lack of heat dissipation causes rotors to warp. If the pads can't absorb the heat, the rotors will. |
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| sushix |
| Just got back from Pepboys. They are selling Hawk HPS pads for $79 and they are sold out. I think I'll buy them from ebay. BTW the pads for 03/04 MDX are different from 01/02 MDX. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by G. COLTON
I agree with all you way. However, that has no bearing on the subject:whether or not harder pads will abrade the rotor more.
G
More abrasion caused by harder pads? I agree, but I don't think it is a great concern, except where the pad used is not well matched to the rotor or intended application.
Same mentality that would use racing slicks on a stock car in rain or snow, or aviation fuel because it's 110 octane. |
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| G. COLTON |
quote:
Originally posted by hondacuraworld
Don't forget that you're dealing with two friction surfaces, and whenever there's friction, there is wear. Most of the wear that occurs on brake rotors comes from turning them on a lathe, or if there is metal to metal contact.
I've seen rotors last 100K or more. It's heat dissipation, not wear that's the issue. Lack of heat dissipation causes rotors to warp. If the pads can't absorb the heat, the rotors will.
You are correct that heat dissipation of of concern, to people who drive in the mountains and race drivers. Day to day driving by good drivers never builds up any significant amount of heat. The mass of the brake system dissipates heat faster than it can be build up under normal driving. The hot rider who races between lights could have a problem. Several panic stops in a row would probably cause a problem. If you drive you car normally this is a non issue.
Regardless, I would like to have the best pads available that will provide the best stopping distance. |
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| Lazarus |
| Not only do I sell Hawk pads but I use them on my car. Great pads, but I never thought about all this technical stuff. One thing that I realize is that a company such as Hawk, who makes brake pads for so many different applications, puts time and money into R&D for their products. |
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| sushix |
Lazarus
Do you have Hawk's pads installed on your MDX? What's your experience on these pads? |
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| hondacuraworld |
quote:
Originally posted by G. COLTON
You are correct that heat dissipation of of concern, to people who drive in the mountains and race drivers. Day to day driving by good drivers never builds up any significant amount of heat. The mass of the brake system dissipates heat faster than it can be build up under normal driving. The hot rider who races between lights could have a problem. Several panic stops in a row would probably cause a problem. If you drive you car normally this is a non issue.
Regardless, I would like to have the best pads available that will provide the best stopping distance.
The effect of the heat caused in braking is relative to the materials used in the friction components. Remember that ideally brake pad and rotor materials are designed to work in concert for the greatest amount of stopping power and heat dissipation.
When you throw a harder pad into the mix, or one that has greater resistance to heat, you can change this balance. If a brake pad or rotor cannot absorb heat, it must either transfer it or reflect it, hence the saying that metallic pads warp brake rotors. Since the pads do not absorb the heat, it is reflected back to the brake rotors, causing warping from rapid heating and cooling. Stop and go driving is just as bad in this instance as emergency braking because the brake components don't have the airflow to assist in the cooling process.
It's a tradeoff. For better cooling, you could even get crossdrilled rotors, but here again you increase pedal effort and/or stopping distance (perhaps not to a great degree) because with the holes, you decrease the amount of friction surface the pads have to work with.
I always just assume that the manufacturer takes these things into account and go with the OEM pad. YMMV. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by hondacuraworld
I always just assume that the manufacturer takes these things into account and go with the OEM pad. YMMV.
As in all things, materials improve, new process are developed, etc. which can make after-market components better than OEM, to a degree, for those willing to pay something extra.
That is not to say OEM is bad, it is doing it's job to an established standard (SAE, etc.) and staying within a fixed price/performance ratio dictated by the 'board'.
On the other hand, one can go too far and have too many expectations. |
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| Maik |
I ordered both front and rear Akebono pads from Tire Rack. They are ceramic and the total cost including shipping charges amounted to $116. I should have them by the end of the week and my plan is to install next weekend, weather permitting.
Not much of a price difference between these and the OEM, non ceramic pads. |
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