| Mando |
Hey folks,
Any help on this? I have read several articles on water softeners (I will need one because I plan to install a tankless water heater system).
Of the articles I've read, a majority of dealers charge waaay over what the unit is actually worth.
I have looked at two sites that sell softeners...they look pretty darn good and not that expensive...
http://www.qualitywatertreatment.com/
http://www.glasswatersystems.com
Has anyone used these companies or can shed some thoughts on the subject, please reply.
Thx! |
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| nightguy |
I have a Kenmore. They're the same as Ecowater but cheaper. Recommended by my wife's cousin who is a master plumber. It's been fine although I think my screwy scheme for connecting it has resulted in lower water pressure which is affecting performance.
I like the ones in the links. They seem to have all mechanical timers which is harder to set up at first but more reliable in the end which is why they're a little more expensive. I also like the idea of a separate salt/brine tank which makes it easier to clean. My Kenmore has the resin bed inside the brine tank so it's a beeyotch, especially since I don't have a shopvac.
I like Kinetico. They're small and use a lot less salt and no electricity. I don't completely understand the technology but I think they sort of constantly regenerate rather than doing it at a set time so there's no chance of running out of soft water. They're also much more expensive since you have to get them installed by a dealer...probably $2000 for just the softener but they last a lot longer too. They also let you lease to own.
I assume you're in CA ? You should be ok with the tankless water heater there. I asked the plumber about those and even though they sell them at Home Depot here, they're really not for the northern climate I'm in. They can't keep up with a 43 degree output.
One other thing...I never had a water softener until late last year. I love it...skin feels better, less soap needed for washing, etc. But after only 3 years in the house we must have had a lot of stuff building up in the pipes because I've had to clean out some of my fixtures after the softener was in. My shower was barely running at one point. |
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| csimo |
quote:
Originally posted by Mando
Hey folks,
Any help on this? I have read several articles on water softeners (I will need one because I plan to install a tankless water heater system).
Of the articles I've read, a majority of dealers charge waaay over what the unit is actually worth.
I have looked at two sites that sell softeners...they look pretty darn good and not that expensive...
http://www.qualitywatertreatment.com/
http://www.glasswatersystems.com
Has anyone used these companies or can shed some thoughts on the subject, please reply.
Thx!
No experience with them, but they probably use the same old low efficiency filter materials and don't have true meters.
The best in the industry were designed by Bill Hague and built by his companies Hague Quality Water or WaterBoss. Hague Quality Water units are generally the larger units and are sold thru dealers. The WaterBoss product is their "basic" home units and are sold thru home improvement stores like Lowes and Home Depot.
A Hague unit is far superior to most every other unit on the market. Some have "borrowed" his designs and are marketing small high efficiency units similar to his, but none are better than a Hague.
The WaterBoss units are great. Don't let their physical size fool you! They work great in homes with 4 bathrooms and high water usage.
I personally use the WaterBoss 700 series and a Takagi tankless water heater. Both are the very best in the business. |
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| DaleB |
Whole house sediment filter, Kenmore softener, and an undersink filter in the kitchen. All work great! No pressure problems noted.
Keep it simple and reasonable.
Naturally, gear it for your capacity needs.
I am considering a hot water booster pump from the water heater with a timer. |
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| mdx99 |
quote:
Originally posted by nightguy
I have a Kenmore. They're the same as Ecowater but cheaper. Recommended by my wife's cousin who is a master plumber. It's been fine although I think my screwy scheme for connecting it has resulted in lower water pressure which is affecting performance.
I like the ones in the links. They seem to have all mechanical timers which is harder to set up at first but more reliable in the end which is why they're a little more expensive. I also like the idea of a separate salt/brine tank which makes it easier to clean. My Kenmore has the resin bed inside the brine tank so it's a beeyotch, especially since I don't have a shopvac.
I like Kinetico. They're small and use a lot less salt and no electricity. I don't completely understand the technology but I think they sort of constantly regenerate rather than doing it at a set time so there's no chance of running out of soft water. They're also much more expensive since you have to get them installed by a dealer...probably $2000 for just the softener but they last a lot longer too. They also let you lease to own.
I assume you're in CA ? You should be ok with the tankless water heater there. I asked the plumber about those and even though they sell them at Home Depot here, they're really not for the northern climate I'm in. They can't keep up with a 43 degree output.
One other thing...I never had a water softener until late last year. I love it...skin feels better, less soap needed for washing, etc. But after only 3 years in the house we must have had a lot of stuff building up in the pipes because I've had to clean out some of my fixtures after the softener was in. My shower was barely running at one point.
It seems like you need to have the stuffs inside the water softener housing replaced, forgot what they are called, it's a bunch of tiny orange color crystal-like, about every 5 years, they should be removed & replaced, cost me $200 to have it done by professional. they will clog up your pipes and fixtures and create low pressure. |
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| nightguy |
quote:
Originally posted by mdx99
It seems like you need to have the stuffs inside the water softener housing replaced, forgot what they are called, it's a bunch of tiny orange color crystal-like, about every 5 years, they should be removed & replaced, cost me $200 to have it done by professional. they will clog up your pipes and fixtures and create low pressure.
I just got the softener in August. I don't think I need to replace the resin bed yet. Not sure how the beads could escape the tank. They're made out of plastic. I have not measured with a timer and bucket but the flow seems to be the same using the softener or bypassing it. It's ok if just one source is open but with two or more..all bets are off. I'm waiting to resolve this before I install the reverse osmosis water filter.
My father in law helped me install a whole house filter even though I'm on city water. Not a bad idea because using a 5 micron filter (not using one now) it picks up a lot of iron and chlorine. But because of the route of the existing pipes we had to sort of double back the copper to the supply using 3 or 4 closely placed 90 elbows. The plumber told me the joints and possibly the filter housing are reducing the pressure. I think from time to time the softener isn't able to flush fully during the backwash and fast rinse because of the lower pressure. |
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| Mando |
Ok...the Waterboss looks intriguing :)
But, for some reason, in searching through Home Depot, Ace and Lowes web sites (listed on Waterboss' web site), I can't seem to find ANYTHING on the Waterboss.
I might need to go and pay a visit to one of these stores. |
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| mdx99 |
quote:
Originally posted by nightguy
I just got the softener in August. I don't think I need to replace the resin bed yet. Not sure how the beads could escape the tank. They're made out of plastic. I have not measured with a timer and bucket but the flow seems to be the same using the softener or bypassing it. It's ok if just one source is open but with two or more..all bets are off. I'm waiting to resolve this before I install the reverse osmosis water filter.
My father in law helped me install a whole house filter even though I'm on city water. Not a bad idea because using a 5 micron filter (not using one now) it picks up a lot of iron and chlorine. But because of the route of the existing pipes we had to sort of double back the copper to the supply using 3 or 4 closely placed 90 elbows. The plumber told me the joints and possibly the filter housing are reducing the pressure. I think from time to time the softener isn't able to flush fully during the backwash and fast rinse because of the lower pressure.
One last thing to check is the regulator! |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by mdx99
One last thing to check is the regulator!
There is a small venturi and nozzle system that needs to be checked at least once a year. It regulates the flow of the brine from the salt storage to the resin tank.
You actually disassemble it and check for dirt, etc. and any wear patterns on the small rubber gasket and disk to make sure there is no leakage.
I took out a 3 year extended warranty, and Sears comes over and does all that, as well as check line pressure, and run the softener through the cycles. I watch him so I will be able to take over. I saved enough on this machine because it was a return with missing installation parts. Sears ordered all new parts, and gave me a full factory warranty. |
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| erck3 |
http://www.watervalue.com http://www.ohiopurewaterco.com
I just had one installed. Did a great deal fo research and truly feel a lot of the high end systems use the same technology/components. Fleck and Autotrol are very reputable brands. The sites above were the cheapest I could find, both have free shipping. I went with ohiopuerwaterco as I am in Cincinnati and the unit arrived in 2 days.
Call a reputable bath/kitchen dealer in your area (Kohler) and ask them for a reputable plumber. The one I called actually asked what I needed and gave me 3 companies.
Soft water for 3 days and I dont regret a cent. Just make sure you use a calculator to determine the system you need (there are several online if you search). Culligan or a major water co will also come out and test for hardness. Its free, so have them take a look. They will want to charge 4X what you will find the unit for online, but you dont have to actually buy anything from them.
Hope that helps. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by erck3
http://www.watervalue.com http://www.ohiopurewaterco.com
I just had one installed. Did a great deal fo research and truly feel a lot of the high end systems use the same technology/components. Fleck and Autotrol are very reputable brands. The sites above were the cheapest I could find, both have free shipping. I went with ohiopuerwaterco as I am in Cincinnati and the unit arrived in 2 days.
Call a reputable bath/kitchen dealer in your area (Kohler) and ask them for a reputable plumber. The one I called actually asked what I needed and gave me 3 companies.
Soft water for 3 days and I dont regret a cent. Just make sure you use a calculator to determine the system you need (there are several online if you search). Culligan or a major water co will also come out and test for hardness. Its free, so have them take a look. They will want to charge 4X what you will find the unit for online, but you dont have to actually buy anything from them.
Hope that helps.
Culligan makes up for taking all your money by being very polite and offering you services up the ying yang. When most folks just want something reliable installed at a fair price, and something they don't have to fuss with.
I think Sears is very good quality at a reasonable price, with lots of customer support. There are always better. But it can get down to how much better you need also. |
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| nightguy |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
I think Sears is very good quality at a reasonable price, with lots of customer support. There are always better. But it can get down to how much better you need also.
Like everything at Sears, it's some other name brand - in this case Ecowater, which is a good brand. It could possibly only last 7 or 8 years but I will likely move out of this house in the next few years. I'm not leaving fancy schmancy water treatment behind. The Kenmore is good enough.
If you don't like the idea of someone coming to your house, most places (including Sears) will let you take the water to them. If you don't have a softener any tap will do. If you have a softener, take a sample of the softened water and an unsoftened source like an outside spigot.
In other news...I had dinner with the plumber last night. He thinks it's actually my whole house filter that's cutting the pressure. Mine is a Culligan. He says the ball valve usually has a pretty small opening...too small for a main line. He also said he had one blow up in the middle of the night and flood his basement. Time to learn to sweat pipe I guess. :1: |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by nightguy
Like everything at Sears, it's some other name brand -
That's true. In fact, there was a table someone referenced on here at one time that gave you the manufacturer of various goods that are sold under other names.
Then main thing is that they select some good value but fairly reliable brands, which they seem to do quite well. And again, then do follow up with good customer service, at least that's been my experience. |
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