| carguy1234 |
Is there anything special about the MDX windshield that would make it necessary to replace it at an Acura shop? I just took a rock today that left a big mark. I don't think they can fill it since it's right in my line of sight, and is pretty big too.
I'd rather have the Acura dealer do it but I think my insurance will only cover it from those crooked "get a box of steaks or savings bonds with windshield replacement" type places (how can those places be legal or ethical, by the way??). |
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| G. COLTON |
:I would get the windshielf replaced at a place that specializes in window replacements. Your Acura dealer probably does not have much experience at this job. I doubt that many people take their vehicles to a dealer for window work.
G |
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| frostyra |
When I got my '01's windshield replaced due to a major crack, my insurance company insisted that the replacement company use OEM glass. Assuming that your insurance has comprehensive that covers glass, yours might too. If not, ask the insurance company if you can pay the extra amount for OEM glass.
I agree with G. COLTON about taking it to a windshield specialist, not the dealer. |
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| carguy1234 |
Thanks, that makes sense. I'm mainly worried about the glass companies trying to pawn off non-OEM Honda glass that isn't as good at reducing wind noise.
I'll try to get the OEM glass, but with the rate that my MDX is picking up new noises, I guess it really doesn't matter that much! |
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| dj-mdx2 |
| My 01 X doesn't have the rain-sensing wipers but since yours does, I'd make certain that whoever installs the new one is experienced with working with rain-sensing technology. If I'm not mistaken, there's an optical sensor near the rearview mirror that's in contact with the windshield. Lots of gripes about rain-sensing anyway. Just a thought. |
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| thodgdon |
quote:
Originally posted by dj-mdx2
My 01 X doesn't have the rain-sensing wipers but since yours does, I'd make certain that whoever installs the new one is experienced with working with rain-sensing technology. If I'm not mistaken, there's an optical sensor near the rearview mirror that's in contact with the windshield. Lots of gripes about rain-sensing anyway. Just a thought.
Exactly, just use a reputable place (I'm sure you've had windshields replaced before) and make sure you tell them when you make the appointment that you've got the rain-sensing wiper sensor on the glass. It'll go fine. I just had mine replaced and it went great - they used the OEM glass and it's just like new... |
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| harmonr1 |
I had my '03 replaced last week. The cost estimates for the "rain sensing" windshield were $550 from at no-name place and $751 from teh local "high-end" glass shop in town. Since I have $500 deduct, I opted for the high-end shop. I have AAA insurance and they use Auto-lite glass and gave me about 10 different shops to call.
The installer came to my house in the AM and did teh install in the driveway. In the MDXm there is no trim or anything special that needs to be removed. It;s an amazingly simple install. It took about 45 minutes and most of that time was spend cleaning up the old seal mount or waiting for a second person to assist with setting the glass into place.
They taped the glass in so that it wouldn't move and I couldn't drive it for 4 hours until the glue set. The next day I left for southern california (a 7 hour trip) and have had no problems whatsoever.
Hopes this helps some.:) |
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| Jaybeedee |
Now, this is my baby, since I purchase the OEM glass for service. The "dealerships" do not normally have glass installers employed there, they contract out to experienced glass installers who come into the dealership by appointment.
Personally, I've had the worse experience with windshield and quarter glass replacements when they were not OEM. THERE ARE SPECS out there for OEM that the non-OEMs don't always use. For instance, Honda is known for pushing the mark in using the lightest weight possible in glass to help with fuel economy. Along with that, in windshield technology, they use very high end laminate for the laminated glass (laminate vinyl in the glass is what keeps the glass together even though it's broken into a million pieces).
Acura dealers (Honda, too) will order ALL of the seals and clips that were put in your vehicle when they were made. Aftermarket glass shops will only put in the glass and whatever they use on everything else to seal it. When I had the windshield replaced on my Accord, they used safelite, and there was this awful wind noise. When the insurance company demanded they take it back and use the Honda parts I had listed, I had no more wind noise. The insurance company then stopped using the body shop that did the install.
The rain sensing windshield is part number 73111-S3V-C01. Check with Tim to see if he sells them. They shouldn't be that much more expensive than the lowest price I saw quoted above. |
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| ardvarkus |
Does anyone know where I might find:
1. An Acura procedure on replacing the windshield (TSB or other factory instructions)
2. A list of all part Acura recommends be replaced when replacing the windshield?
Just got a second crack- time to fix it.
$50 deduct, so we'll have them do it top notch.
2001 MDX
Thanks
A |
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| Pauls MDX |
quote:
Originally posted by Jaybeedee
Now, this is my baby, since I purchase the OEM glass for service. The "dealerships" do not normally have glass installers employed there, they contract out to experienced glass installers who come into the dealership by appointment.
Personally, I've had the worse experience with windshield and quarter glass replacements when they were not OEM. THERE ARE SPECS out there for OEM that the non-OEMs don't always use. For instance, Honda is known for pushing the mark in using the lightest weight possible in glass to help with fuel economy. Along with that, in windshield technology, they use very high end laminate for the laminated glass (laminate vinyl in the glass is what keeps the glass together even though it's broken into a million pieces).
Acura dealers (Honda, too) will order ALL of the seals and clips that were put in your vehicle when they were made. Aftermarket glass shops will only put in the glass and whatever they use on everything else to seal it. When I had the windshield replaced on my Accord, they used safelite, and there was this awful wind noise. When the insurance company demanded they take it back and use the Honda parts I had listed, I had no more wind noise. The insurance company then stopped using the body shop that did the install.
The rain sensing windshield is part number 73111-S3V-C01. Check with Tim to see if he sells them. They shouldn't be that much more expensive than the lowest price I saw quoted above.
I totally agree with this statement. I strongly believe you should go back to Acura to have the glass replaced. Acura is the only place the will use OEM replacement glass. The other glas shops use aftermarket glass unless you can maybe request. Also the dealer will use all new OEM seals and glues. They don't do the work themselves the feed it out to a local shop that has to be approved by your insurance company. As long as you have full glass coverage, I would go to Acura. If have to use a deductable, then go aftermarket because there is a huge difference in price on the aftermarket windshield versus the OEM windshield. I had full glass and insisted on having the exact type as the car manufacturer had installed on the assembly line. They may of even changed the thickness on the 2001 & 2002 because there were so many claims of chips on those windshields. I'm all for OEM and have acura do the job! |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by Pauls MDX
I totally agree with this statement. I strongly believe you should go back to Acura to have the glass replaced. Acura is the only place the will use OEM replacement glass. The other glas shops use aftermarket glass unless you can maybe request. Also the dealer will use all new OEM seals and glues. They don't do the work themselves the feed it out to a local shop that has to be approved by your insurance company. As long as you have full glass coverage, I would go to Acura. If have to use a deductable, then go aftermarket because there is a huge difference in price on the aftermarket windshield versus the OEM windshield. I had full glass and insisted on having the exact type as the car manufacturer had installed on the assembly line. They may of even changed the thickness on the 2001 & 2002 because there were so many claims of chips on those windshields. I'm all for OEM and have acura do the job!
Totally disagree!
No dealership does there own glass! Virtually all will sub it out to safelite, etc
Every glass shop offers yuo the option to buy OE. (Note "OEM" is not necessarily Acura!).
Simply tell them what you want, what parts to use, what adhesive to use, how to not scratch the paint- simple! They do it in your driveway and you can make sure they don't F up. Give it to the dealer and a fly by night truck will do it behind the dealership... |
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| Pauls MDX |
quote:
Originally posted by ardvarkus
Totally disagree!
No dealership does there own glass! Virtually all will sub it out to safelite, etc
Every glass shop offers yuo the option to buy OE. (Note "OEM" is not necessarily Acura!).
Simply tell them what you want, what parts to use, what adhesive to use, how to not scratch the paint- simple! They do it in your driveway and you can make sure they don't F up. Give it to the dealer and a fly by night truck will do it behind the dealership...
Yes they do sub it out but they use the Acura windshield not an aftermarket. If you go to safelite they rarely use original windshield from dealers. There is a hugh difference in price!!! Please check on the cost of original versus aftermarket. Also if you go thru Acura and are not happy Acura will have to stand behind the work. Going with an aftermarket glass good luck getting them to fix a problem they are individually owned and would have to take to court. Not for me rather deal with Acura.
As far as OEM versus OE, just go by the part number and you will know if it's an original Acura Windshield. Another reason why I don't trust dealing with the aftermarket guys, at least Acura I can hold them to what they tell me, good luck with a glass company. |
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| ardvarkus |
If they sub it out then Acura isn't doing the work- hence no guarantee of Acura quality (excuse me while I choke on those words)
I suppose we are not in radical disagreement: you need to get someone to use Acura parts and acura procedures- we disagree how to find that.
Oh. my comment on OE versus OEM is a warning for folks to be careful at how those terms are thrown around.
You might find youself with a PPG windshield without an Aucra stamp, but with the same "part number" with OEM added to the end.
A
PS I'm still hoping to find acura's procedure for doing the windshield... anybody know where to find one? |
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| Pauls MDX |
quote:
Originally posted by ardvarkus
If they sub it out then Acura isn't doing the work- hence no guarantee of Acura quality (excuse me while I choke on those words)
I suppose we are not in radical disagreement: you need to get someone to use Acura parts and acura procedures- we disagree how to find that.
On Long Island I wasn't able to go to a glass shop and have them use an original windshield. They all wanted to use their own windshields, aftermarket. Even know Acura actually subs the work out they still stand behind the work because they pick the glass shop they feel is reliable. Hence, should a problem arise I don't go to the glass store, I go to Acura and they have the glass people come to Acura and fix it there or there shop. It's an extra cushion of protection in my opinion. Should you directly go to a glass place you have only 1 person to go should a problem arise. Do you know the difference in price between the OE and the aftermarket? I heard it was huge. Some insurance companies may not pay in full if you want an OE windshield. Thank god I had the full glass repacement with zero deductable. Take it easy.
Paul |
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| Anh Hai TL |
| I replaced my windshield last week. I bought the OE Acura windshield, part number 73111-S3V-C01, from my local dealer for $571 plus tax. Drove it home and it was still in one-piece. I hired A & A glass to come to my house to replace the windshield. They broke the glass and did not admit fault. I guess it was my misfortunes. Prior to purchasing the glass, I called several body shops and they quoted me in the $800 range. I called GlassMax, who quoted me $795 on the first call, again to set up an installation date (part of CollisionMax). This time, I was quoted $650 for a PPG glass and installation. The installation was completed in a professional manner and personnel was very courteous. I don't know the part number. It says "PPG Acoustigate Solargreen Duplate Laminate Dot 18 A51 M455 FW2437" on the windshield. There is no wind noise. However, the rain sensor seems to be a little bit more sensitive than the OE Acura windshield, which I don't mind. |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by Anh Hai TL
I replaced my windshield last week. I bought the OE Acura windshield, part number 73111-S3V-C01, from my local dealer for $571 plus tax. Drove it home and it was still in one-piece. I hired A & A glass to come to my house to replace the windshield. They broke the glass and did not admit fault. I guess it was my misfortunes. Prior to purchasing the glass, I called several body shops and they quoted me in the $800 range. I called GlassMax, who quoted me $795 on the first call, again to set up an installation date (part of CollisionMax). This time, I was quoted $650 for a PPG glass and installation. The installation was completed in a professional manner and personnel was very courteous. I don't know the part number. It says "PPG Acoustigate Solargreen Duplate Laminate Dot 18 A51 M455 FW2437" on the windshield. There is no wind noise. However, the rain sensor seems to be a little bit more sensitive than the OE Acura windshield, which I don't mind.
Apologies in advance, but that seems like an awfully foolish plan!
You mean to tell me you could not find a company to install AND SUPPLY an Acura Glass?? I mean surely if you pay for the aucra glass they will do whatever you want....
I read these stores of folks getting hugely mislead by shops and dealers and just shake my head....
Anyway, here is what I did:
1. Called the two closest Aucra and Honda dealers. ASked them who does their windshields. NOTE. I did not ask them about their doing it! I acted as if that was not even an option- just that I KNEW they sub it out, and just opened with "Hey, trying to find out who you guys use for windshields" .... One service guy said "we can do that" I said "Yes, but I know you sub it our and need to know who does the work" , He gave me the company name. (They are generally OK with this as the only money they make is on the material,,, insurance companies take out most of the labor profit)
2. Called the shops. Asked about materials they use, where they do it, discussed my concerns. Any replies where that try to BS me and they are 'outta here'... generally, since I sound like I know what I am talking ab out, people respond in kind
3. Pick a shop.
4. Do it in my driveway so I can watch.
In california (and I suspect other states) there is a law that ALL ins companies CANNOT require you to install non-factory repair parts... well this includes glass. THis is a non-issue in CA.
I have a $50 deduct- and all shops will waive that. Guys- you really need to look at what the REAL cost is to lower the COMPREHENSIVE coverage to $50. THis is, at least in Calif different that COLLISION. It is not much, less than $100 a year to drop it from 500 to 50. I can go through a windsield every year...
A
PS I suppose that in a state where you can only get aftermarket glass, going directly to Acura might be the only recourse. Not here, though. |
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| Pauls MDX |
quote:
Originally posted by Anh Hai TL
I replaced my windshield last week. I bought the OE Acura windshield, part number 73111-S3V-C01, from my local dealer for $571 plus tax. Drove it home and it was still in one-piece. I hired A & A glass to come to my house to replace the windshield. They broke the glass and did not admit fault. I guess it was my misfortunes. Prior to purchasing the glass, I called several body shops and they quoted me in the $800 range. I called GlassMax, who quoted me $795 on the first call, again to set up an installation date (part of CollisionMax). This time, I was quoted $650 for a PPG glass and installation. The installation was completed in a professional manner and personnel was very courteous. I don't know the part number. It says "PPG Acoustigate Solargreen Duplate Laminate Dot 18 A51 M455 FW2437" on the windshield. There is no wind noise. However, the rain sensor seems to be a little bit more sensitive than the OE Acura windshield, which I don't mind.
Good Idea, I never thought of actually picking up the windshield myself and then going to a windshield installer? I hope the insurance picked up the cost or did you have to lay out the money for the windshield at Acura? Cost of installation? Did the insurance pay them directly? I would also be nervious to drive home with a $500 plus windshield, my luck I would hit a pothole or someone in front of me would slame on the brakes causing me to stop hard and break the windshield. |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by Pauls MDX
Good Idea, I never thought of actually picking up the windshield myself and then going to a windshield installer? I hope the insurance picked up the cost or did you have to lay out the money for the windshield at Acura? Cost of installation? Did the insurance pay them directly? I would also be nervious to drive home with a $500 plus windshield, my luck I would hit a pothole or someone in front of me would slame on the brakes causing me to stop hard and break the windshield.
Hmm, the way I read it:
He purchased a new Acura Glass
A company he contracted for labor BROKE HIS ACURA GLASS
That same company refused to pay for the broken glass
He went to another shop and got a PPG glass installed.
I assume he is now suing the first glass installer. Good ideas like that would make ME crazy! :)
A |
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| Pauls MDX |
quote:
Originally posted by ardvarkus
Hmm, the way I read it:
He purchased a new Acura Glass
A company he contracted for labor BROKE HIS ACURA GLASS
That same company refused to pay for the broken glass
He went to another shop and got a PPG glass installed.
I assume he is now suing the first glass installer. Good ideas like that would make ME crazy! :)
A
If he didn't lay out any money and gets it fixed with a free PERK maybe no that bad? I just never thought of buying from Acura and then going somewhere else to install. |
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| Anh Hai TL |
quote:
Originally posted by ardvarkus
Hmm, the way I read it:
He purchased a new Acura Glass
A company he contracted for labor BROKE HIS ACURA GLASS
That same company refused to pay for the broken glass
He went to another shop and got a PPG glass installed.
I assume he is now suing the first glass installer. Good ideas like that would make ME crazy! :)
A
...No lawsuit.
quote:
Originally posted by ardvarkus
Apologies in advance, but that seems like an awfully foolish plan!
You mean to tell me you could not find a company to install AND SUPPLY an Acura Glass?? I mean surely if you pay for the aucra glass they will do whatever you want....
I called at least 7 body shops and none of them would use the Acura glass. If I did buy an Acura glass, they would not install it. They all insisted that I use their glass. In the end, I got the windshield replaced with a PPG glass at GlassMax. |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by Anh Hai TL
...No lawsuit.
I called at least 7 body shops and none of them would use the Acura glass. If I did buy an Acura glass, they would not install it. They all insisted that I use their glass. In the end, I got the windshield replaced with a PPG glass at GlassMax.
Not to pry too much, but what happened with the $571 plus tax you spent on the first windshield? |
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| SuperTech |
quote:
Originally posted by ardvarkus
Does anyone know where I might find:
1. An Acura procedure on replacing the windshield (TSB or other factory instructions)
2. A list of all part Acura recommends be replaced when replacing the windshield?
Just got a second crack- time to fix it.
$50 deduct, so we'll have them do it top notch.
2001 MDX
Thanks
A
Tried to PM you, but your box is full. Here's the procedure from the SM. There's pictures that go along with this. PM me your email addy, and I'll send them.
I can't look up parts from home. But I don't think there's much to it. The rubber seals and that's it. To be honest, I think the comapny we sublet our windshields to reuse the seals.
If you've never done this and done have the adhesives and so on, I really wouldn't try this yourself. You've got to do quite a few windshields before you get the knack. This is why dealers sublet this work out. We'd rather have someone else take the risk of screwing up a windshield.
2001 MDX - Windshield Replacement
NOTE:
Put on gloves to protect your hands.
Wear eye protection while cutting the glass adhesive with piano wire.
Use seat covers to avoid damaging any surfaces.
Remove these items:
Rearview mirror
A-pillar trim
Windshield wiper arms
Cowl cover
Remove the molding (A) from the edge of the windshield (B). If necessary, cut the molding with a utility knife.
If the old glass is to be reinstalled, make alignment marks across the glass and body with a grease pencil.
Pull down the front portion of the headliner. Take care not to bend the headliner excessively, or you may crease or break it.
Apply protective tape along the edge of the dashboard and body. Using an awl, make a hole through the rubber dam, adhesive, and dashboard seal from inside the vehicle at the corner portion of the glass. Push a piece of piano wire through the hole, and wrap each end around a piece of wood.
With a helper on the outside, pull the piano wire (A) back and forth in a sawing motion. Hold the piano wire as close to the windshield (B) as possible to prevent damage to the body and dashboard.
Carefully cut through the rubber dam and adhesive (C) around the entire windshield.
Carefully remove the windshield.
With a knife, scrape the old adhesive smooth to a thickness of about 2 mm (0.08 in.) on the bonding surface around the entire windshield opening flange:
Do not scrape down to the painted surface of the body; damaged paint will interfere with proper bonding.
Remove the rubber dam and fasteners from the body.
Clean the body bonding surface with a sponge dampened in alcohol. After cleaning, keep oil, grease and water from getting on the clean surface.
If the old windshield is to be reinstalled, use a putty knife to scrape off all of the old adhesive, the rubber dam and the dashboard seal, from the windshield. Clean the inside face and the edge of the windshield with alcohol where new adhesive is to be applied. Make sure the bonding surface is kept free of water, oil, and grease.
Cutting positions:
Glue the upper rubber dam (A), side rubber dam (B), lower rubber dam (C), clips (D), and dashboard seal (E) to the inside face of the windshield (F) as shown:
Be sure the side rubber dam, lower rubber dam and dashboard seal line up with the alignment marks (G).
Be careful not to touch the windshield where adhesive will be applied.
Apply primer (3M N-200, or equivalent) to the edge of the windshield between the alignment marks (A). Be careful not to touch the windshield where adhesive will be applied.
Glue the molding (A) with adhesive tape (B) to the edge of the windshield (C):
Be sure the alignment mark (D) of the molding lines up with the alignment mark (E) of the windshield.
Be careful not to touch the windshield where adhesive will be applied.
Glue the molding upper seal (A), molding corner seal (B), and molding side seal (C) to the inside surface of the molding (D) as shown:
Be sure the molding upper seal and molding side seal line up with the alignment dots (E).
Be careful not to touch the windshield where adhesive will be applied.
Install the clips to the body.
Set the windshield in the opening, and center it. Make alignment marks (A) across the windshield and body with a grease pencil at the four points shown. Be careful not to touch the windshield where adhesive will be applied.
Remove the windshield.
With a sponge, apply a light coat of glass primer around the edge of the windshield (A) between the upper rubber dam (B), side rubber dam (C), lower rubber dam (D), and molding (E) as shown, then lightly wipe it off with gauze or cheesecloth:
Apply glass primer to the molding.
Do not apply body primer to the windshield, and do not get body and glass primer sponges mixed up.
Never touch the primed surfaces with your hands. If you do, the adhesive may not bond to the windshield properly, causing a leak after the windshield is installed.
Keep water, dust, and abrasive materials away from the primed surface.
With a sponge, apply a light coat of body primer to the original adhesive remaining around the windshield opening flange. Let the body primer dry for at least 10 minutes:
Do not apply glass primer to the body, and be careful not to mix up glass and body primer sponges.
Never touch the primed surfaces with your hands.
Mask off the dashboard before painting the flange.
Before filling a cartridge, cut a ''V'' in the end of the nozzle (A) as shown.
Pack adhesive into the cartridge without air pockets to ensure continuous delivery. Put the cartridge in a caulking gun, and run a bead of adhesive (A) around the edge of the windshield (B) between the upper rubber dam (C), side rubber dam (D), lower rubber dam (E), and molding (F) as shown. Apply the adhesive within 30 minutes after applying the glass primer. Make a slightly thicker bead at each corner.
Use suction cups to hold the windshield over the opening, align it with the alignment marks made in step 16, and set it down on the adhesive. Lightly push on the windshield until its edges are fully seated on the adhesive all the way around. Do not open or close the doors until the adhesive is dry.
Scrape or wipe the excess adhesive off with a putty knife or towel. To remove adhesive from a painted surface or the windshield, wipe with a soft shop towel dampened with alcohol.
Let the adhesive dry for at least 1 hour, then spray water over the windshield and check for leaks. Mark leaking areas, and let the windshield dry, then seal with sealant:
Let the vehicle stand for at least 4 hours after windshield installation. If the vehicle has to be used within the first 4 hours, it must be driven slowly.
Keep the windshield dry for the first hour after installation.
Reinstall all remaining removed parts. Install the rearview mirror after the adhesive has dried thoroughly. Advise the customer not to do the following things for 2 to 3 days:
Slam the doors with all the windows rolled up.
Twist the body excessively (such as when going in and out of driveways at an angle or driving over rough, uneven roads). |
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| ardvarkus |
A follow up:
Went round and round with my insurance and the shop- here's an interesting wrinkle, at least in CA.
Insurers are required to provide "like kind and quality" for repair parts- this means you cannot demand OE glass- if there is OEM or aftermarket, as long as it is equivalent and meets DOT certifications, they can limit their coverage to that glass... HOWEVER: almost all shops will just cut out the old and glue in the new. virtually no shop uses the Acura moldings and clips!
Herein lies the rub: the materials and methods used to install the "equivalent" glass are not certified to be equal to acura's. Acura has tested the car, via crash testing and safety testing using a specific process to install the window- the Safelite Autoglass "cut it out and glue it in" method is untested- or at least my insurance co decided this wasn't worth the test case. Safelite just punted when I posed this question to them. The insurance company is going for the Aucra materials and factory process.
The reason Safelite can do a window+ labor for $450, yet an acura glass + install is $800 is because they don't replace the 10 other acura pieces the manual requires...
A |
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| SuperTech |
| Just a sidenote to anyone who gets an aftermarket windshield. I've been noticing some replacement windshields that are branded "Pilkington" or something like that. This particular replacement windshield has a noticeable increase in wind noise over the genuine OEM Honda one. |
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| Pauls MDX |
quote:
Originally posted by ardvarkus
A follow up:
Went round and round with my insurance and the shop- here's an interesting wrinkle, at least in CA.
Insurers are required to provide "like kind and quality" for repair parts- this means you cannot demand OE glass- if there is OEM or aftermarket, as long as it is equivalent and meets DOT certifications, they can limit their coverage to that glass... HOWEVER: almost all shops will just cut out the old and glue in the new. virtually no shop uses the Acura moldings and clips!
Herein lies the rub: the materials and methods used to install the "equivalent" glass are not certified to be equal to acura's. Acura has tested the car, via crash testing and safety testing using a specific process to install the window- the Safelite Autoglass "cut it out and glue it in" method is untested- or at least my insurance co decided this wasn't worth the test case. Safelite just punted when I posed this question to them. The insurance company is going for the Aucra materials and factory process.
The reason Safelite can do a window+ labor for $450, yet an acura glass + install is $800 is because they don't replace the 10 other acura pieces the manual requires...
A
When I did a little research, I came up with the same conclusions. I also noticed the same difference in price when going to glass shops versus bringing to Acura and have them sub the work out. On my invoice from Acura they used all Acura parts for the install, where if went to glass shop they would use an equivilant parts. I wanted to replace the 10 Acura items with new Acura, and not have them re-use the old parts. Totally agree with you. When I noticed the price difference, that was the clue ther was a difference. My insurance covered me 100% on eitther method of repair. They only insisted that the glass installer be on their authorized list which the sub-installer at Acura was on the list and believe it or not Acura wasn't on the list and couldn't do the install themselves under my insurance. By bringing to Acura I was assured that they used the OE windshield and the 10 other items that needed replacement with OEM Acura parts. Basically Acura made the money on the parts and the sub company made the money on the labor for the install. A little confusing? |
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| JL_SS |
| MA insurance law has a mileage/age limit for OE parts. I think it is 3yr/50K. After 3yr/50K you must use cheaper aftermarket parts. However, my insurance company has a loophole in that they guarantee your satisfaction with the repair. My experience with a hood and fender replacement after 50k on another car was interesting. I wanted OE hood and fender due to crash worthiness but insurance would only cover aftermarket. I could pay the difference but didn't think I should have to to guarantee my car would behave as tested in an accident (insurance companies do not test aftermarket parts, they rely on the aftermarket mfr certification). Talking to the body shop they said don't worry about it, we order the aftermarket parts, install them making sure they look lousy (not hard because most of the aftermarket stuff doesn't fit properly in the first place), then call the insurance rep to tell them you weren't happy and order the OE parts. This winds up costing more money than using OE parts in the first place :rolleyes: . |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by SuperTech
Just a sidenote to anyone who gets an aftermarket windshield. I've been noticing some replacement windshields that are branded "Pilkington" or something like that. This particular replacement windshield has a noticeable increase in wind noise over the genuine OEM Honda one.
Once MORE sidenote: On my bmw, there are two 'guages' that the installer must use to set the glass height in relation to the window frame - if it is off, then the wind noise increases dramatically.
I wonder if these occasional reports of wind noise are not so much the glass that is used, but rather how far down into the window frame it sits if factory rubber dams are not used to precisely set heights?
I suppose it could be the glass shape or thickness, but since Pilkington is the OEM for some acura models/years this seems less likely...
Never is simple, eh? |
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| carguy1234 |
I finally had mine replaced. I was waiting a bit since the rock chip was not directly in my line of sight, so I was looking for the best installer I could find.
Then last weekend while I went over a bump in the road (pothole), the windshield cracked and a nice big line started that was over a foot long. I made the replacement appointment (good timing since I just found the installer I was going to use), and in the few days until the replacement the crack extended at least another foot.
Now I have a PPG replacement, that appears very similar to the original. This glass seems at least as good if not better than the original in terms of road noise permeating through. I wonder if it's a little thicker. It has been raining the last couple days, and the rain sensing works just fine with the replacement glass. |
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| ardvarkus |
Intersting discussion with a Sr. manager at safelite today. Found out more than I needed to know about materials testing and ANSI standards for glass installation and materials.
One point- he believes that complaints of 'wind noise' are most likely due to install and NOT the glass itself. Improper molding transitions or glass position are likely the culprit.
My insurer is bitting the entire bullet- $908 for Acura glass, material and install. Just got tired of my BS.
:)
A |
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| scoobs |
Who do you guys think makes the "Acura" glass ? The PPG glass looks like the real thing because it IS the real thing. Here's the list of vehicles with OEM PPG glass. I know because I used to work for PPG.
http://www.ppg.com/gls_autoglass/vehicles.asp |
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| afs12065 |
quote:
Originally posted by carguy1234
Is there anything special about the MDX windshield that would make it necessary to replace it at an Acura shop? I just took a rock today that left a big mark. I don't think they can fill it since it's right in my line of sight, and is pretty big too.
I'd rather have the Acura dealer do it but I think my insurance will only cover it from those crooked "get a box of steaks or savings bonds with windshield replacement" type places (how can those places be legal or ethical, by the way??).
Sorry to hear about that.
I agree that while it may seem logical to take it to the dealer for replacement, certified glass installers typically yield better results.
Depending on the year and model of your X you may want to insist on OEM glass. On my '05 the front windshield is made for Honda by PPG and is Accoustigate glass which is compatible with rain sensing wipers and is also designed to help with wind/road noise. If you look in the lower corner on the passenger side some of this information may be right there.
If you have rain sensing wipers or a special type of glass (like Accoustigate) in your X you may want to push hard for OEM or pay the difference to get it if your insurance co. won't pay. My theory is that it is probably designed like that for a reason. :)
You're looking for an installer that is at least NGA (National Glass Association) certified, has a warranty against installation defects/leaking, etc., uses OEM trim so you keep "the look" and in general I try to stay away from the "drive by" shops that operate out of the back of a van. Have had better luck with places that have a place to work with the right tools and a space for the urethane to setup before the car is moved.
Having a proper install is important to keep the OEM look, to be leak free, etc. but also could save your life too if it needed to (hope that you never need that).
Good luck! |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by scoobs
Who do you guys think makes the "Acura" glass ?
I think it varies with year and model.
I've heard that LOF, Pilkington and PPG have made acura glass. One mfg may make glass for 2001 and half of 2002, then someone else gets the contract.
Heck, the "acura" glass on my vehicle might have a different manufacturer than the "acura" glass they are putting in this week.
Personally, I believe the difference, if there is any, is in the mounting materials and methods. The safelite, "adhesive only, just set it in glue' method will work, but has a chance of misalignment. Perhaps a cause of wind noise? |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by afs12065
., uses OEM trim so you keep "the look"
I'd want OE trim, not OEM.... OEM is the same manufacturer- it might be different than stock trip- so called 'universal' trim.
Perhaps nomenclature, but make sure you use the correct terms so that your expectations are met. |
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| scoobs |
quote:
Originally posted by SuperTech
Just a sidenote to anyone who gets an aftermarket windshield. I've been noticing some replacement windshields that are branded "Pilkington" or something like that. This particular replacement windshield has a noticeable increase in wind noise over the genuine OEM Honda one.
Pilkington glass is very high quality glass, just as good as PPG. In fact if you have a CRV there is a good chance that the windshield was manufactured by Pilkington. I doubt that it is the glass that is causing the noise, probably the installation. |
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| scoobs |
quote:
Originally posted by ardvarkus
I think it varies with year and model.
I've heard that LOF, Pilkington and PPG have made acura glass. One mfg may make glass for 2001 and half of 2002, then someone else gets the contract.
All glass that goes in at Alliston is PPG. PPG has satellite plant outside the Alliston Honda plant. It supplies Honda.
http://www.ppg.com/gls_autoglass/facilities.asp
Pilkington owns LOF |
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| Jaybeedee |
quote:
Originally posted by ardvarkus
I think it varies with year and model.
I've heard that LOF, Pilkington and PPG have made acura glass. One mfg may make glass for 2001 and half of 2002, then someone else gets the contract.
Alright, this is driving me crazy....
My list of Pilkington parts DO NOT have any Acura vehicles on them. LOF and Pilkington are connected - a family of sorts. There merger is ULNG - United Libby Nippon Glass. They have Honda Accord door glass, new Odyssey windshields, current CRV (both under the Pilkington and NSG labels) and some old Civic.
Additionally, glass with the "Honda" mark (soon, Acuras will have *Acura* instead of *Honda* on the glass, as we have started with the new RL) can only be sold *TO* Honda companies (AHM, HAM, HTA, etc). Take off the word "Honda" from the glass, and they can sell it to anyone using a NAGS number. PPG does this for just about every model we make. BUT it does not make their product OE, even if they participated in the early production lot trials.
If a glass shop (not Honda or Acura dealer) wants OE glass, they must order it from an entity with a Honda dealer number -- usually only our dealers, but there are some exceptions. We have tons of dealers who order the glass for the glass shops, and have all the glass work done there. This usually does not apply to door glass (the windows that go up and down) since it requires taking the door apart, and just sticking the little clips onto the rails.
So, for once and for all, dealerships subbing out to glass shops or professional glass installers is not an odd or abnormal thing -- it's routine. And FWIW, you cannot expect people to adhere to your fixation on the misuse of OE/OEM. It's not major, and these folks are not trying to work here anyway. Most dealers know exactly what you mean regardless of sticking that "M" on the end. |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by Jaybeedee
Most dealers know exactly what you mean regardless of sticking that "M" on the end.
Drives me crazy too.
:)
Thanks for the info on mfgs- jibes with what I'd heard- that only Acura (or honda or BMW) can sell a part with their licensed mark on it.
But I will disagree that people know what they are asking form when they say "I want OEM" A glass shop will instal a non acura glass and the customer will be surprised when there is no "acura" mark on it.
No quibble that glass is one of the few areas where there is little difference between OE and aftermarket OEM.
I think people need to know that many, many vendors abuse the term OEM. I will reiterate that most people think "oem" means the original equipment- it now seems to simply means the Manufacturer of the OEEquivalent part once made parts for the car manufacturer. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by ardvarkus
Drives me crazy too.
:)
Thanks for the info on mfgs- jibes with what I'd heard- that only Acura (or honda or BMW) can sell a part with their licensed mark on it.
But I will disagree that people know what they are asking form when they say "I want OEM" A glass shop will instal a non acura glass and the customer will be surprised when there is no "acura" mark on it.
No quibble that glass is one of the few areas where there is little difference between OE and aftermarket OEM.
I think people need to know that many, many vendors abuse the term OEM. I will reiterate that most people think "oem" means the original equipment- it now seems to simply means the Manufacturer of the OEEquivalent part once made parts for the car manufacturer.
It's easier to avoid OE and OEM altogether and say I want genuine Acura parts..........:4: . |
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| apple904 |
Aside from the issue of non OEM / OEM glass I have an experience which might be helpful to somebody.
I had a windshield replaced by a glass company and they butchered the rubber gasket so that it was protruding out too far in some places and invisible in others. It looked like crap. They agreed to re-install with a "better brand" windshield that had the rubber gasket pre-installed on the glass. I witnessed the whole job so I know they weren't "BS-ing" me.
If you use a glass company, tell them you want them to pre-install the gasket to the new glass before they install the windshield. It will add a day to the process since they do it in their shop but it is well worth it. If they won't do it, find another company - they fill the yellow pages so it won't be hard. |
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| Pierre |
Got my own "star" the other day. Within an hour, cracks radiated in opposite directions. Need to replace the windshield. Called the dealer; they want CDN $525 + tax. Asked if they do it themselves; they said they subbed it out (thought so). Then I asked who they sub out to, thinking they wouldn't tell me, but they did! Local shop here. I called them right away: they'd do it for $450. Guess where I'm going!
Surprised at some of the quotes you guys are getting. Is the glass that different, or is the markup that much more down there?
BTW, I have the rain sensor. |
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| dj-mdx2 |
quote:
Originally posted by Pierre
Called the dealer; they want CDN $525 + tax. Asked if they do it themselves; they said they subbed it out (thought so).
Surprised at some of the quotes you guys are getting. Is the glass that different, or is the markup that much more down there?
BTW, I have the rain sensor.
You sure the dealer quote includes labor? |
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| Pierre |
quote:
Originally posted by dj-mdx2
You sure the dealer quote includes labor?
Yep. Had him confirm it. |
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| Pauls MDX |
| The idea is to try to get the original Acura Windshield. This one has the Black border with small holes around it, I believe the aftermarket doesn't have this. You must request that you want the original Acura Windshield. The price difference is huge. If the insurance will not cover the Acura Windshield, I don't think anyone would pay for the Acura one. All the Acura shops sub out the work, but they tell the glass shop whether or not the insurance OK'ed the Acura Glass or Aftermarket Glass. Try always to get the original AcuraGlass if your insurance will cover. I also believe if you just drop off the vehicle and say fix it, they will usually go for the aftermarket glass which has a higher profit margin for both shops being Acura and Glass shop. They should also order a new molding and new adhesives for sealing the windshield(when using the original Acura Glass). These are all Acura ordered parts which I have seen on the invoice. When using the aftermarket windshields they usually use the old molding if still in good shape. Just a little more knowledge for you guys. |
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| Jin_Chris |
Let me make some comment on windshield replacement.
1. 99% of Dealers do NOT do Windshield replacement by themselves.
2. Anybody can ask for OEM windshield, which means anyone who is in windshield replacement business can obtain it at a little more extra cost.
3. When asking for OEM, talk to Insurance FIRST. The windshield place will definately charge more. It is Your insurance who needs to pay such extra cost. If your insurance insist not paying for such extra cost. Change your insurance later. Actually, the price of windshield itself is surprisingly low. The non-oem one is even cheaper than you ever imagine... It is "labor and handling" which costs a lot. Therefore, OEM and NON-OEM price difference that insurance needs to take care of is very minor... Of course, OEM and NON-OEM "Re-tail" price difference is quite a lot though....
4. Find out reputable glass shop. It is Glass shop who does actual job NOT the dealer. Dealer will hire the cheapest glass shop while you can find a good reputable glass shop yourself. They are whole lot better than the glass shop through dealer (second hand already).
5. Here you have to keep in mind this one. Really Really Really Really Really Really Really Really Really Really Really Really important one when replacing windshield is "Proper Rust Proofing". Any glass shop will damage the paint in the windshield trim. They can NOT help... Then, some cheapo "irreponsible" glass shop will just ignore such paint damage. Then, less than a few years, you will see the rust coming out of windshield frame area, which is very very difficult to take care of after rust emerges... Good glass shop does proper etching and rust proofing coating before they put the windshield back to frame... ASK for it!!! |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by Jin_Chris
Let me make some comment on windshield replacement.
1. 99% of Dealers do NOT do Windshield replacement by themselves.
2. Anybody can ask for OEM windshield, which means anyone who is in windshield replacement business can obtain it at a little more extra cost.
3. When asking for OEM, talk to Insurance FIRST. The windshield place will definately charge more. It is Your insurance who needs to pay such extra cost. If your insurance insist not paying for such extra cost. Change your insurance later. Actually, the price of windshield itself is surprisingly low. The non-oem one is even cheaper than you ever imagine... It is "labor and handling" which costs a lot. Therefore, OEM and NON-OEM price difference that insurance needs to take care of is very minor... Of course, OEM and NON-OEM "Re-tail" price difference is quite a lot though....
4. Find out reputable glass shop. It is Glass shop who does actual job NOT the dealer. Dealer will hire the cheapest glass shop while you can find a good reputable glass shop yourself. They are whole lot better than the glass shop through dealer (second hand already).
5. Here you have to keep in mind this one. Really Really Really Really Really Really Really Really Really Really Really Really important one when replacing windshield is "Proper Rust Proofing". Any glass shop will damage the paint in the windshield trim. They can NOT help... Then, some cheapo "irreponsible" glass shop will just ignore such paint damage. Then, less than a few years, you will see the rust coming out of windshield frame area, which is very very difficult to take care of after rust emerges... Good glass shop does proper etching and rust proofing coating before they put the windshield back to frame... ASK for it!!!
You mean OE not OEM, right?
:) |
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| Jin_Chris |
Thank you for correction!
I wish I can sometimes ask for OEM to slap their butt whenever they don't do good job... :D |
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| DaleB |
I think it's a generalization to say all dealerships will have the cheapest (as in bad?) outfitter do the work.
My local Acura dealership would not recommend a body shop, because once they did, and got burned when a new painter was hired and screwed up about 10 cars.
But they did tell me where they take their personal cars and the shop is exceptional.
I would trust them to ensure it's replaced correctly, or see any problem is resolved.
If you don't have that kind of faith in your dealership, then why would you take your MDX there for anything?
Although, I do get routine service done at Honda, because they are cheaper (but still very good).
Over the years I've met folks that rely on dealerships for their aftermarket services, like wheel chroming, detailing, trim, etc. etc. They all do excellent work.
No reason a glass co. could not also.
YMMV.
:) |
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| Jaybeedee |
quote:
Originally posted by Pierre
. ...I called them right away: they'd do it for $450. Guess where I'm going!
Surprised at some of the quotes you guys are getting. Is the glass that different, or is the markup that much more down there?
BTW, I have the rain sensor.
The dealerships pay somewhere around $340 for this W/S. The supplier is NOT allowed to sell the part to a non-Honda entity with the Honda logo on it.
HOWEVER, you are in Canada, and PPG Canada (the manufacturer of the Genuine Honda part, made in Hawesbury) does sell the part *without* the Honda logo on it to anyone. If you purchase this $450 W/S, just make sure there is a PPG logo on it, and you know you've got the right manufacturer. |
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| Pierre |
quote:
Originally posted by Jaybeedee
The dealerships pay somewhere around $340 for this W/S. The supplier is NOT allowed to sell the part to a non-Honda entity with the Honda logo on it.
HOWEVER, you are in Canada, and PPG Canada (the manufacturer of the Genuine Honda part, made in Hawesbury) does sell the part *without* the Honda logo on it to anyone. If you purchase this $450 W/S, just make sure there is a PPG logo on it, and you know you've got the right manufacturer.
Indeed. It's got the "Accoustigate" laminate, PPG logos, without the Honda logo. I'm told it's the one Honda installs on the X. |
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| Jaybeedee |
quote:
Originally posted by Pierre
Indeed. It's got the "Accoustigate" laminate, PPG logos, without the Honda logo. I'm told it's the one Honda installs on the X.
You did good!:D |
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| nightguy |
I just had my windshield replaced - the cracks they attempted to fix a couple of years ago were getting too big to let it go any longer. I was dreading the idea of breaking the factory seal and then fighting for Honda glass.
I asked if I could get OE glass and they said PPG was the same thing. I assumed that was ok because I thought they make the Honda glass. I even went so far as to bother Tim at Hondacuraworld with that question and he confirmed what I thought. I wasn't going to sweat it anymore...I have too many irons in the fire right now to worry about this stuff.
I did call the glass company yesterday to make sure they were bringing a windshield with the rain sensor which it turns out was a good idea because they changed the part number. Also verifired I was getting the green color. Forgot to mention the Acoustiglass or whatever it's called.
Turns out the windshield they brought looks EXACTLY the same as the glass they took out except for the printed PPG in the middle instead of the HONDA on the right side. It's Acoustiglass - or at least the generic name. The tech even mentioned something about it and how the only other sound reducing glass he ever installed was on either a TL or RL. It's got the same seal that sticks up a bit just like the factory glass and the same dots all around it. The rain sensor attaches to a small piece of glass that's permanently mounted to the windshield. The mirror mount looked slightly different but apparently attached fine.
My other car had a chip so I had them do these in the driveway and I did watch for a bit. Very interesting. He was very careful taking the old sealant out and told me he replaces windshields where some monkey once scraped the hell out of the body, didn't prime it and now it's all rusty under the glass. Nice. Only damage he did was to the old glass which got progessively worse as he worked on it.
The silicone they use sits in a cooler between the seats of the van. The engine coolant runs through a contraption in the cooler that keeps the tubes nice and toasty. He applied the silicone with a powergun...basically a drill on a caulk gun.
I would have taken pics but I felt like I was bugging the guy enough just being there.
Total was $789, parts, labor and tax including a $50 deduction for the repair that didn't work. I have full glass coverage so I paid $0, no deductible. |
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| nightguy |
| No more Honda logo. :( |
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| afs12065 |
| It looks like they did a great job! I had mine replaced at 6,000 mi. and managed to get the insurance company to cover the original Honda part from the local Acura dealer w/ a $0 deductible. They wanted to use the PPG part without the Honda logo on it and said it was the same windshield (w/ rain sensors, sound deadening material, etc.) but I pushed them and they eventually agreed since I had so few miles on it. My experience was good as well... no leaks or other problems. I think if you get someone experienced in replacements and is willing to take their time the technology in sealants and such has progressed enough where it is possible to do a good job without messing up the interior or the body. |
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| dansmdx |
| Just please make sure you have a person witha good reputation do you windshield and also if your able to watch them ...watch them. The only reason I say this is because when the normally remove a windshield the scratch paint sometimes down to bare metal and then dont put anything over the metal..In return causing rust down the road. I say this because my dad ownes a body shop and we do all of the local glass guys work that needs a body shops attention mostly being that problem. I dont want to freal anyone out I just want you to all be aware.. |
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| quiXilver |
I just got the windshield of my '05 X replaced with the same exact one that nightguy used. It cost me $575.00 with tax and installation included. I was told by the installer that they can get the "acura" glass but that would cost $200.00 more and it is essentally the same thing.
The only difference between this PPG glass vs the "acura" glass is that the black dotted trim on the lower part of the windshield does not go as high as the original. I noticed this because my wiperblades seem to be more "visible" and are not sitting in the black area. They sit at the border where the dots end.
Does anyone here have any recommendations as to how I should clean the interior part of the a-pillar? The tech who replaced my glass was not careful and has stained the light gray fabric of the interior a-pillar. Any recommended techniques and sovents would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
quiXilver |
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