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My MDX has 3700 miles on it. When I accelerate, I hear a "ratchety" (rapid tapping) noise coming from the engine. Seems to be on the driver side. Usually happens about 75% of the time. Has anyone experienced this problem, or have a clue as to the origin of the noise?
Thanks,
Mike
MDXinATL
ttrq@home.com
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| Are you using Premium Gas? Sounds like what they used to call pinging. My standard shift truck makes a sound like that if I get lazy and don't downshift when I’m in too high a gear for the speed. The computers are supposed to compensate for lower octane gas though. |
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| It is a similar sound to pinging, that was my first thought. But this sounds more "mechanical", like gears out of sync. I always use 93 octane gas. |
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Hey, I would take it to the dealer ASAP. We heard a tapping noise under our hood and it turned out to be a problem with the #2 cylinder.
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Boy, I have been waiting for a thread on this one...I just didn't have the desire to do it until now. Anyhow, my MDX is 5 months old under 6K miles and have had to send it to the dealer twice. Yes, twice to kill this annoyance.
Hey MDXinATL the "pinging" noise occurs when you accelerate between 25-35 mph. After, it shifts to above 3000 RPMs it goes away. It is most prevalent when you have the AC on . .and the radio turned down, obviously.
My first visit to the original dealer was around March 01. I had their head technician take a spin with me.
Basically, the noise originates from the engine on the driver side. On the invoice the resolution reads - RATTLE WARR REPOSITIONED CABLES AND HARNESS BRACKET AT LEFT SHOCK.
I said great, they fixed the problem.
Come early June, I began hearing it again. I brought it to the same dealer. On the invoice it read fairly similar to the first - THROTTLE CABLES WARR UPGRADED BRACKET HOLDING CABLES AND VERIFIED THAT NOISE IS GONE.
I am hoping that was the last I heard of this noise because it truly takes away the beauty of beaing able to turn down the radio and listen to the engine when you accelerate off the line. I am sure it is a mental thing now...but I am not looking forward to the third time it happens. Did I just ghinks myself?? :(
The dealership didn't give me a positive indication it won't happen again, either.
Oh and yes, do you fill up with Premium Gas seems to be the question I get all the time when I talk about "pinging" or "rattling." Actually it sounds more like the ol' ace of spades card on the front tire of my bmx. I am far from talking about a lemon law situation, because I truly LOVE :) this ride. As long as I have the warranty, I will keep bringing it in.
Anymore on this same bandwagon. . .. first the THUD, now the PING! What next the Skerk?
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Thanks DBirch, I'll bring it in next week. It may very well be a cylinder. I'm just afraid that when I bring it in, the tech will take it on the 5-minute test drive around the block and it won't make the noise.
PolyTat, thanks for your input, but I don't think we're having the same problem. This is definitely not a rattle. It happens when accelerating, all speeds not just 25-35mph. Also, it seems to happen just before the transmission shifts gears, at any speed. It doesn't go away above 3000 RPM, and makes no difference whether the AC is on or off. It sounds like you really are having a rattling problem.
Mike
MDXinATL
ttrq@home.com
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The dealer's service advisor and service manager both drove the MDX, and both said they hear the noise on my MDX, but have never heard it before. They're going to check a string of new TSBs they just received and see if any apply. They're supposed to call soon, then I'll bring the MDX back and leave it with them longer if necessary to figure out the problem. I'll update the forum when this is resolved.
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I'll be interested to hear the diagnosis and fix. Ours does it, too: Under acceleration, and most noticable in the 25-35 range, radio off, windows open, and uphill (under load). Sounds just like pinging to me.
3700 miles and 92 octane all the time.
I'm hoping it's the cable deal and not a bad cylinder like DBirch's...I would think that mileage would suffer badly if it were a cylinder (our mileage is ~15 stop-and-go at 20-25mph avg and still >21 highway). |
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| Sounds like a plan MDXinATL. I know it is a royal pain to bring it back to the dealer .. but as long as the warranty covers it, keep 'em busy. |
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About a month ago, my MDX (Touring + Nav) started making the same noise that is described here. I would say the noise as a kind of mechanical tinkling that is most noticeably from the engine on the driver's side. The noise starts when you step on the gas at 25-30 MPH and evenually disappears during acceleration up to crusing speed.
I picked up the vehicle about 5 months ago but I still have less than 3,000 miles clocked. It went into the shop today so I'll keep you posted on the outcome. To their credit, the dealer acknowledged the sound is a problem. I was worried that I would have a hard time explaining it.
Incidentally, the engine noise associated with using an incorrect grade of gasoline is called "pinking" in the UK.
I always use Premium gasoline so the "pinking" is at least not self-induced.
Below is a link to a web page that includes a pretty good definition of "pinking."
http://www.milford.ndirect.co.uk/unleaded.html
Regards to all DFW, Texas MDX owners.
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Yes, that's the noise. Interestingly enough, I also picked up my MDX about 5 months ago. I'm very interested to know what your Acura dealer says, since mine wasn't sure what the problem was.
Also, "pinking" in the UK is called "pinging" in the US. I've heard pinging, and this noise is definitely not a ping. Also, I use premium (93 octane) gas so it shouldn't be an issue.
Please post your findings from the dealer with regard to the noise!
Thanks,
Mike
MDXinATL |
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Skell,
Welcome to the MDX forum. I too picked up my MDX about 5 months ago - President's Day Weekend to be exact.
I am truly convinced it is not the grade of gas being used. On one of my trips to the dealer, they said they pumped out the gas from my MDX and refilled it back up with "supposed" high octane gasoline. Still there was not any difference, not that I don't use anything but the 92 grade.
It has been almost two months since the last time I brought it in and so far it has been ping-free!
Good luck and let us know what your dealer thinks it is...curious |
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Well, I got my MDX back last night and the problem was diagnosed as a "fuel problem." The write up explains that the mechanic added a "fuel additive" to the tank and took it for a 10 mile drive. This seems to have fixed the problem.
Also, they stressed the importance of using a premium fuel and recommended the use of a "high-quality" gasoline. I normally buy my gas at my local Albertson's grocery store pumps as they seem to be a little cheaper.
For now, I'll run a few tanks of Chevron (with Techron) through the engine and keep an ear to the engine for any return of the noise.
This seems like a good fix. They even hooked-up the vehicle to a diagnostic machine and everything else checked out ok. I was also concerned that my average MPG in the city seemed low at 14-15. I was also told the MPG is about average for other MDXs they have seen.
Hope this helps.
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Skell,
Thanks for the update. I've been using Chevron w/Techron and Amoco Premium (both 93 octane) since the day I got my MDX but it hasn't helped. Do you know what type of fuel additive they used? I'd like to try it myself.
Thanks,
Mike |
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Well as we continue the search for a definitive diagnosis and fix, I thought I'd add my latest experience:
I'm not taking mine into the dealer til the 7500 service, which is still a few months off for us 1k/month drivers, but yesterday I switched gas stations.
Filled a bit less than 3/4 of the tank with Chevron Supreme (92 octane) and the rattling/pinging is significantly diminished, though still there a bit. Was using Shell 92 (which, oddly, is now 91 where we live) before.
Don't know if it's psychological, but there also seems to be more low end grunt (power) with the Chevron gas. I'm going to run another couple of tanks of Chevron through to get 100% Chevron in the tank and will report back.
And, I'm still going to have the dealer check it -- there shouldn't be pinging with 91 octane from any gas station, IMO. |
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MDXinATL,
Would you mind telling us which dealership you're going to? |
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| My dealer is Ed Voyles Acura, P'tree Industrial Blvd. |
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All I could get from the service rep was that they used an after market "BG" fuel additive. He couldn't remember the exact name or although I think he meant that BG was the brand. Sorry I'm not being very helpful here.
The good news however is that the pinging noise has gone and the vehicle is running much smoother again. I was going to wait until I had clocked enough miles for the first service but that could still be a couple of months from now.
As long as it is under warranty, I would recommend taking the vehicle into the dealer.
SB.
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There's a fuel additive called BG44K. I found a discussion of it on an Acura NSX site (www.nsxprime.com). However, I can't find where to buy the stuff. I'll try calling my dealer, maybe they'll give me a can to try out.
On one hand, I hope it takes care of the problem. On the other hand, I hope it doesn't take care of the problem because I don't plan on buying a can of this stuff for every tank of gas, especially when I'm already using Chevron w/Techron.
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| TheWorm |
| Just bumping this thread up to see if anyone has found resolution and, if so, what, to this issue. BTW, I've added this to the Knowledge Base for permanent tracking and resolution. You can Click Here for that KBase entry. |
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| rexram |
Thank you bmyres for this tread as I didn't know what to think about this noise.
My service manager kept the MDX for two weeks and concluded that the problem wasn't a "ping." According to him, he took the front end apart and attached electronic sensing cables to the engine, transmission and everything else he could think of, but to no avail. His conclusion was that perhaps the air cleaner resonates at the same frequency as the engine/transmission; therefore, making more noise when it shifts. He assured me not to worry; however, the noise is getting louder no matter if I use Phillips or Cheveron premium fuel.
The manager also told me that there is no record of this problem in Acura's service database--scary.
Does anyone know how to get a refund if this problem can't be resolved? |
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| AtlantaMDX |
This may not be do-able, but it would be pretty cool if we could get a recording of the "ratchety" noise as well as "the thud" on the board so we could all know what to "listen" for.
Just a thought... |
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| rexram |
| AtlantaMDX, the "pinging or ratchaty" noise sounds like playing cards rapidly hitting bicycle spokes along with a hint of grinding, or, as one reader suggested, rapid tapping. During profound excelleration, the sound is even more metalic and resonate, as if something is being destroyed. Do you have this problem? |
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| AtlantaMDX |
| I don't believe so. Is it more pronounced with the windows down? Just curious. I'll have to go do some hard acceleration *just to make sure*. :) |
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| MDXinATL |
Just an update -- nothing new :( The service rep at the dealer did call to say he hasn't forgotten about me, but there's still no solution. As with rexram, the noise does seem to be getting louder and more frequent.
Even if the dealer assured me not to worry (as in the case of rexram's MDX), it still MUST be fixed! That unexplainable noise definitely diminishes the resale value. I certainly wouldn't have bought the MDX if it made that noise during the test drive. If I receive the customer satisfaction survey before the noise is fixed, I'm afraid I'll have to be honest.
Other than the noise, the MDX is great! |
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| PolyTat |
| A whole 2 months and no pinging, rachety, thudding sounds. Also too I don't drive it often. Hit 7500 miles . .feels great:cool: |
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| AtlantaMDX |
| Well I finished some of my *just to make sure* testing this weekend and I don't seem to have the ratchety accelerationg noise. But I plan further test *Just ot make sure* :) |
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| MDXinATL |
Many thanks to rexram and PolyTat -- this problem has been solved! :) rexram emailed me and told me about the throttle cable support bracket, located under the hood near the driver. It attaches to the body of the car. Evidently, this bracket vibrates against the body and causes the noise. The solution is simple: bend the bracket away from the car body about 1/2". I did it and it works!
Attached (hopefully) is a picture of the problem area. The yellow arrow indicates the bracket; the green arrow indicates where the bracket knocks against the car body. In this picture, my bracket has already been bent away from the body.
Good luck, and thanks to everyone who helped to solve this problem!!!
:D |
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| TheWorm |
Great detective and self-fix work. Unfortunately, it didn't work for me -- and I was really hoping :(
I'm off to the dealer on Monday. I'm gonna call the SvcMgr tomorrow to see if he'd prefer pinging with 92 octane gas, or worse pinging with 89...and I hope it's not what DBirch or Teck had! |
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| TheWorm |
How's your pinging fix (BG44 additive) holding up? Ours is still doing it. I assume this was a one-time deal?
FWIW and of interest, our MDX did not ping when we were at ~6000 ft altitude up in Tahoe. When we returned to sea level, the pinging returned. I'm sure someone who knows more about engines and fuel could explain why.
Meanwhile, the dealer says "they all sound that way" and "the computer indicates no errors".
Thanks for any updates... |
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| mdxinvancouver |
The fact that your 'DX was pinging at sea level and not at 6000' is just a normal sign of too lean a fuel mixture. Could be the ULEV. When an engine runs lean(too much air [oxygen] not enough fuel) it pings. As soon as you gain altitude you loose oxygen which means that the engine changes from running lean to running rich. Okay for the engine but creates a lot of wasted fuel and therefore pollution.
I wouldn't worry about it. All Honda engines run to the lean side for power and fuel economy. I have a GSR as well and they are the same.
Cheers,
Jeremiah |
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| billlumberg |
| I hope you all know what you're talking about. Pinging is a preignition of gasoline. That means that the engine compress's exploded gas. That can blow a hole in your piston or blow a head gasket. It's not "THEY ALL DO THAT AND YOU'LL IT'S NO BIG DEAL". It's a very big deal and we need to find a solution! |
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| gerrypadilla |
quote:
Originally posted by MDXinATL
Just an update -- nothing new :( The service rep at the dealer did call to say he hasn't forgotten about me, but there's still no solution. As with rexram, the noise does seem to be getting louder and more frequent.
Even if the dealer assured me not to worry (as in the case of rexram's MDX), it still MUST be fixed! That unexplainable noise definitely diminishes the resale value. I certainly wouldn't have bought the MDX if it made that noise during the test drive. If I receive the customer satisfaction survey before the noise is fixed, I'm afraid I'll have to be honest.
Other than the noise, the MDX is great!
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| gerrypadilla |
thanks to everybody's help. my tapping noise is finally gone. gave the throttle bracket repositioning a try since it was the only left for me to try since my delaer tried everything during 7500 mile service
Thanks, thanks, thanks |
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| billlumberg |
Just a question. Has anyone tried using 87 octane gas?? Acura (Honda) has a knock sensor and if the gas is preigniting it will turn the dummy light on and put a code in the computer that says the engine is knocking. I just haven't had the balls to do it. I am affraid it will ping until the engine breaks. However the computer does change the timing to correct the problem.
Let me know,
Thanks everyone |
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| barryschapman |
I can't believe that a can of fuel additive is the solution. I won't accept the "STP" solution to a problem as pervasive as this. I jacked my MDX up and crawled everywhere under it looking for a rattle such as a heat shield that was vibrating to no avail. It's primarily occurring with the A/C on right after shifting into the next gear between 25 and 35 mph. All brands of 93 octane fuel have been used.
Honda was criticised by the motorcycling press for incorporating VTEC technology in their new VFR800 street bike. They called it complexity and technology for technology's sake with no improvement in performance. Has VTEC been applied to another vehicle with questionable results? In an attempt to gain the highest mileage in its class, Honda is asking a relatively small displacement engine to produce a lot of torque to move this 4400 pound car using very little fuel. Thus the obvious detonation when under heavy torque loads.
I believe that the fuel mapping is too lean and we need to be very vocal as a group to NOT accept dealer fixes that come in a can. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by barryschapman
I can't believe that a can of fuel additive is the solution. I won't accept the "STP" solution to a problem as pervasive as this. I jacked my MDX up and crawled everywhere under it looking for a rattle such as a heat shield that was vibrating to no avail. It's primarily occurring with the A/C on right after shifting into the next gear between 25 and 35 mph. All brands of 93 octane fuel have been used.
Honda was criticised by the motorcycling press for incorporating VTEC technology in their new VFR800 street bike. They called it complexity and technology for technology's sake with no improvement in performance. Has VTEC been applied to another vehicle with questionable results? In an attempt to gain the highest mileage in its class, Honda is asking a relatively small displacement engine to produce a lot of torque to move this 4400 pound car using very little fuel. Thus the obvious detonation when under heavy torque loads.
I believe that the fuel mapping is too lean and we need to be very vocal as a group to NOT accept dealer fixes that come in a can.
I consider myself a very observant driver, but after reading these posts, and driving my MDX under hard, moderate, and gentle acceleration I have not heard anything but a responsive engine.
I almost feel like I SHOULD be hearing something wrong!
3.5 LIters is not that small in a well designed V6 engine with appropriate gearing and mapping of the engine management systems.
BMW, Lexus, and Mercedes buzz around just fine it seems on only 3 Liters and no VTEC.
And besides Honda Pilots, we have MDX owners that still use regular from time to time and have reported little if any difference in performance.
I realize this does not fix the problem, but let's keep it in perspective.
On the cure in a can, I could not agree with you more. |
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| DaleB |
| By the way, I have read some positive things about the VTECs they are running in boats these days. |
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| barryschapman |
This users group has paid off already ! Joined yesterday and believe that I have stopped the rattling/pinging sounds that I attributed to detonation and a lean fuel map.
I did the "bracket bend" as described earlier in this thread and just drove 10 miles and heard nothing but a smooth quiet engine with the air conditioning running and while intentionally "lugging" up a hill. (Let the engine shift into a higher gear then modulate the gas peddle so that it runs at low RPM requiring more torque.)
Funny thing is the cable and bracket didn't seem that close to the wheel well to touch in the first place, but I bent it a little anyway. I guess the engine must roll some due to torque thus causing the throttle cable/bracket to touch the metal wheel well.
I'm hoping this is solved. |
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| renov8r |
I guess somebody was right about the "lean"... the torque of acceleration is enough to reduce the clearance between bracket & firewall-- the engines leans a bit :D
Worm:
Have you tried to "unlean" the bracket? Any progess??
Oh BTW, I can't believe nobody mentioned this before, BUT, there is just about ZERO chance that there is anyway this can be related to "ping" -- the sensors would record lean or rich conditions, engine knock, timing retard, fuel delivery problem, air intake problem et cetera...
I also though somebody would see the fallacy of "lean at sea level rich at altitude" by the same token -- the ECM would 'see' either condition and adjust for it! At altitude there is simply less oxygen in every 'gulp' of atmosphere an engine 'swallows', it compensates by reducing the amount of fuel the injectors spray and thus power is reduced. Pretty much why turbo chargers/super chargers were developed for aircraft engines... |
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| TheWorm |
I did bend the bracket further and retorqued the mounting bolt. There's really no noticable ping anymore, and hasn't been in quite some time.
With windows down, going uphill under load, and good bushes/buildings alongside to magnify sound, I still can here "something". Certainly not the "marbles in a bottle" sort of pinging. Could be just a "loud" or reverberating air intake for that matter. |
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| rexram |
| I find it irresponsible that Accura has not responded to the "pinging" problem one year after PolyTat, MDXinATL and myself (rexram) brought the solution to this forum. Car dealerships and owners alike have agonized over more probable solutions such as octane levels, or valves, only to realize that it is something as simple as bending the "throttle cable support bracket" with your fingers. C'mon Accura, this is the easiest of all engineering fixes. rexram |
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| miradero |
I too had the pinging sound at 3000 miles. The sound came from the driver's side of the engine compartment upon acceleration from 2,500-3000 RPM. Very annoying.
I tried the bracket bend remedy mentioned by MDXinATL in this thread and it WORKED. Thanks a lot, and great picture too. Relieved to know that it wasn't real engine "pinging". It's like a new car now.
Thanks a lot and great picture too.
PS. My dealer had no clue too. |
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| mdxmember |
I would like to thank MDXinATL for his/her solution.
I fixed the annoying accelerating noise problem within 5 minutes.
This website is the great. |
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| MDX-rated |
I was hearing pinging in my 2004 X and 3 dealers I have taken it to say this is "normal". To make their point, we also took a drive in a 2003 model and the ratchety/pinging sound could also be heard on it. Of course I'm not satisfied and am trying to contact Acura about the issue.
In the 2004 model, the bracket has been relocated and isn't the cause. It is noted however, that after a recent oil change when I reverted from Castrol Syntec Blend to the mineral Castrol GTX, I haven't heard the noise. Of course, the weather here in the NW is also getting cooler. Who knows? I wouldn't expect the type of oil being used would be a factor. Temperature though, could be. |
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| LAN |
It's amazing! After a few years of off&on trying to convince my dealer of this noise, I couldn't get them to look for any possible fix. I was convinced that it was some sort of rocker problem, or maybe just pinging! I was worried that every mile I was driving me car closer to its grave. I have 3 very nice vehicles and will be needing to get rid of one. This month, I was about to put this on the block for it died. I've been visiting AcuraMdx.Org for at least a year and a half and occasionally checked for this problem using various terms to no avail. Finally, on a lark, today I tried 'ratcheting' and voila!
I really can't believe that Acura/Honda engineers here in the US aren't using resources like this website and others to continually learn the tricks that regular mechanics are using to validate real problems, big or small, and to translate them into TSBs. That way, service techs and just fix a problem on a customer's first visit. Then, they could spend more time doing what they do well; making up other problems that customers can overpay for, thus generating lots of service revenue!
Thanks folks! Now, if only I can get Acura to address my sluggish, sometimes stuttering, near-stalling performance on acceleration at or near 35-40 MPH and 1500-2000 RPM. Any ideas? |
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