| hammermdx |
| Good luck to all of our fellow members and their families all along the Gulf Coast! Our thoughts and prayers are with you. |
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| XLover |
| Good luck friends. Please post messages if you guys need any help from west coast, especially from LA. |
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| eurohazard |
| It looks like I may be deploying to aid in the recovery. More to follow. |
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| Sooner in FL |
quote:
Originally posted by eurohazard
It looks like I may be deploying to aid in the recovery. More to follow.
God speed to you and God Bless all the Louisanas that is evacatuing. It's not fun. Last year, I had to go through 4 hurricane with about 4 weeks of no power.
Needless to say, we bought a generator.
Two requirements if you live in FL.
1. Power generator
2. Powerwasher |
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| G. COLTON |
quote:
Originally posted by eurohazard
It looks like I may be deploying to aid in the recovery. More to follow.
What would Air Force personnel do to aid in a hurricane recovery?
G |
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| LabMeister |
| Our thoughts and prayers go out to all! |
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| LabMeister |
quote:
Originally posted by G. COLTON
What would Air Force personnel do to aid in a hurricane recovery?
G
Rapid airlift - you name it and we'll get it there! |
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| G. COLTON |
quote:
Originally posted by LabMeister
Rapid airlift - you name it and we'll get it there!
The active duty military is generally not allowed to participate in domestic civilian activities. Any participation is this sort is generally left up to the National Guard.
The active duty specifically cannot act in a law enforcement role because of the Possee Comitatas Act.
In my 23 years of active duty I never saw active duty envolved in domestic relief.
G |
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| eurohazard |
quote:
What would Air Force personnel do to aid in a hurricane recovery? The active duty military is generally not allowed to participate in domestic civilian activities. Any participation is this sort is generally left up to the National Guard. The active duty specifically cannot act in a law enforcement role because of the Possee Comitatas Act. In my 23 years of active duty I never saw active duty envolved in domestic relief.
I can't speak for all services or specific jobs. But if I deploy it will be to "beef up" an already existing command post at some minor base. We will perform Command and Control for incoming/outgoing aircraft, but not actually (directly) giving aid.
We won't be enforcing curfews or anything like that. You're right....it's someone else's job! |
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| Fabvsix |
I was born in New Orleans and raised in New Iberia where my elderly parents remain. They were spared this storm as they are 190 miles West of New Orleans, 20 miles dead North of the Gulf of Mexico....
When I heard yesterday morning on CNN that ONE levee broke, I said "its all over for New Orleans'.....that has been a topic for years in Louisiana with Politicans and locals whether the infrastructure was up to date to handle a storm of this magnitude.......I'm afraid the worse has yet to be seen...
Has anyone heard from our New Orleans members ? I think his user name is Manus ? |
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| Blackura |
| My heart goes out to everybody in the area devastated by Katrina... except the looters who should be shot on sight. |
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| Fabvsix |
| All that food and stuff is going to go to hell in a heart beat, why not give it to those poor folks who are in for a ruff ride ! You can't sell rotten food ! :confused: |
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| csimo |
This will be a very controversial post, and I'm sure I will be accused of being a heartless a**hole, but that's OK. I'm interested in true opinions and controversy brings them out.
I believe everyone in the hurricane zone had at least 48 hour notice to GET OUT. The various governors made statements, "W" went on TV to beg people to leave, the police told people to leave. Many CHOSE to stay... refusing to leave their homes.
Now we as taxpayers are spending untold millions of dollars to pluck people off rooftops, and cut them out of attics. These are people that were told to LEAVE.
Maybe I am a heartless a**hole, but I don't think it's right for others to risk their lives to save people that were too stubborn or ignorant to leave when warned. Let them sit on their roofs for a few days and wait until it's not so dangerous.
Maybe I could see rescuing some kids that were the victims of their ignorant parents, but that's about it in my opinion.
There should be nothing but property damage to deal with. Not a bunch of fools that decided to stay when warned to GET OUT.
How wrong am I? |
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| Fabvsix |
I agree with you too ! However, we have to deal with the after effects of ignorance ! We just can't ignore human lives and let them cook on their roofs !
We have to deal with it ! And yes your an Asswipe...........J/K...... |
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| xfactor |
quote:
Originally posted by csimo
...I believe everyone in the hurricane zone had at least 48 hour notice to GET OUT. The various governors made statements, "W" went on TV to beg people to leave...
I know this may be a shock to some, but a lot of people don't have TV's, or internet connections... |
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| Fabvsix |
That is true. My in-laws didn't know jack about the hurricane in New Orleans until today and they have TV's, just too busy with keeping their heads above water ! We're in California by the way.....:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
But yes, those poor folks in Louisiana don't have TV's or radio's and doesn't surprise me. It is NOT an excuse to ignore them......10,000 folks in the STUPID DOME are mostly convicts, criminals from the 9th ward and those god awful housing projects around the french quarter ! They have no cars, tv's, radio's to go by.......just wait till they start getting irritated and want out ! The worse has yet to be seen...... :1: Where do they go ? |
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| texrb |
Well csimo, some of the people that didn't leave had no cars to leave the city or no money to afford a hotel room. Yes there were stubborn people that wanted to ride out the storm - but there were also many others that had no other choice.
I worked disaster relief after Charlie hit FL last year & I saw first hand what poor people in Punta Gorda had to deal with. So don't be too quick to judge those that didn't leave. |
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| eRauL |
Natural Disaster does not care whether one had no access to early warning, disregarded early warning, or cannot do anything after hearing the early warning.
In the aftermath, we have to not care either. Anyone alive needs rescuing. It's that simple to me.
My heart goes to those in the affected area, and those who have family there.
It's just devastating. It's like hearing about the South Asia Tsunami all over again. One of my friend here in Southern California was terribly affected by that Tsunami. His family lost their store in central Banda Aceh, flattened by the giant wave that rushed up the river. His uncle was lost, and his mother is still hysterical to this day whenever she hears rumbling noise. |
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| Sooner in FL |
quote:
Originally posted by Blackura
My heart goes out to everybody in the area devastated by Katrina... except the looters who should be shot on sight.
Agree with you 110%...
Looter should get their hands chopped off. Did anyone saw on the news that the looters broke an ATM and took all the cash. BA$TARD$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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| kflint |
I know this may come as a shock to some, but there are people who simply didn't have the money or means to evacuate on short notice. No car, the bus service shut down as staff evacuated, etc. Some people made a (in hindsight big) mistake and chose to stay when they could have left, others had no real choice. My heart goes out to all of them.
KJF |
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| msu79gt82 |
Re: looters
The city of New Orleans has been ordered to be evacuacted and abandoned, the Navy in enroute to assist that. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation...1-katrina_x.htm
I suppose the good news is that much of the stolen clothing, jewelry, etc will not be able to be carried out anyway :rolleyes: |
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| amtrucker22 |
Here are some pictures of Ocean Springs that were taken yesterday. Place is pretty trashed.
This is Hwy 90
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| G. COLTON |
quote:
Originally posted by Fabvsix
All that food and stuff is going to go to hell in a heart beat, why not give it to those poor folks who are in for a ruff ride ! You can't sell rotten food ! :confused:
And just what distrribution network would you suggest be used for this job?
G |
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| G. COLTON |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
Re: looters
The city of New Orleans has been ordered to be evacuacted and abandoned, the Navy in enroute to assist that. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation...1-katrina_x.htm
I suppose the good news is that much of the stolen clothing, jewelry, etc will not be able to be carried out anyway :rolleyes:
The Navy has 4 ship loads of relief supplies on the way. I think you will find that they are not going to be there to control looters in NO nor will they be involved in evacuation.
G |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by G. COLTON
The Navy has 4 ship loads of relief supplies on the way. I think you will find that they are not going to be there to control looters in NO nor will they be involved in evacuation.
G
That's why we have a National Guard. Unfortunately, never enough of them. |
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| nightguy |
Wow...the New Orleans mayor is now saying thousands dead. The city is already going to be uninhabitable for months, but with rotting bodies it could get worse.
Somebody mentioned wanting to help...
A variety of government and private agencies are en route to assist victims of Hurricane Katrina. Federal officials urged people wanting to help not to head to the affected area unless directed by an agency. Rather, they asked people to make cash contributions to aid organizations.
FEMA listed the following agencies as needing cash to assist hurricane victims:
• American Red Cross, 800-HELP NOW (435-7669) English, 800-257-7575 Spanish.
• Operation Blessing, 800-436-6348.
• America's Second Harvest, 800-344-8070.
• Adventist Community Services, 800-381-7171.
• Catholic Charities, USA, 703-549-1390.
• Christian Reformed World Relief Committee, 800-848-5818.
• Church World Service, 800-297-1516.
• Convoy of Hope, 417-823-8998.
• Lutheran Disaster Response, 800-638-3522.
• Mennonite Disaster Service, 717-859-2210.
• Presbyterian Disaster Assistance, 800-872-3283.
• Salvation Army, 800-SAL-ARMY (725-2769).
• United Methodist Committee on Relief. 800-554-8583.
Associated Press
Oh yeah...Bush just mentioned whatever charity you choose, you should designate the money for "Hurricane Relief". |
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| scoobs |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
That's why we have a National Guard. Unfortunately, never enough of them.
Over 5000 ( Five Thousand ) members of the Louisiana National Guard are in, you guessed it, Iraq. The Mississippi National Guard also has a brigade in Iraq. They are bringing in National Guard units from as far away as Wisconsin. |
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| Blackura |
I don't know about you, but last week when I saw the storm coming, I sort of figured it would be "just like any other storm" to hit Florida or the southeast and there'd be a local disaster or two and news coverage for a few days and then it would all be OK. It happens several times every year. Tragic, yes. But predictable.
This is clearly not typical. It's hell, and it's not getting better anytime soon. I can't remember any previous storm with this degree of complexity or lack of FAST response from the government.
Sure, there's a plan to get medical supplies, food and clean water down there... in a few weeks. But where's the help today?
Are there no choppers anywhere? Are there no pallets of food and supplies that can be airlifted in right now? There are plenty of choppers available for news media and gawkers but not for food and medicine?
And what was up with having the *only* highway that could get people out of the path of danger open for *incoming* traffic? Three lanes of smooth highway without a single car on it. Surely you saw the same footage as me and screamed at your TV, "You fools! Open all lanes on *both* sides of the highway to *outgoing* traffic!" This isn't rocket science, is it?
This situation requires immediate action. Time is ticking and people are dying. |
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| G. COLTON |
quote:
Originally posted by Blackura
I don't know about you, but last week when I saw the storm coming, I sort of figured it would be "just like any other storm" to hit Florida or the southeast and there'd be a local disaster or two and news coverage for a few days and then it would all be OK. It happens several times every year. Tragic, yes. But predictable.
This is clearly not typical. It's hell, and it's not getting better anytime soon. I can't remember any previous storm with this degree of complexity or lack of FAST response from the government.
Sure, there's a plan to get medical supplies, food and clean water down there... in a few weeks. But where's the help today?
Are there no choppers anywhere? Are there no pallets of food and supplies that can be airlifted in right now? There are plenty of choppers available for news media and gawkers but not for food and medicine?
And what was up with having the *only* highway that could get people out of the path of danger open for *incoming* traffic? Three lanes of smooth highway without a single car on it. Surely you saw the same footage as me and screamed at your TV, "You fools! Open all lanes on *both* sides of the highway to *outgoing* traffic!" This isn't rocket science, is it?
This situation requires immediate action. Time is ticking and people are dying.
Things/actions do not happen instantly just because we want them to. There are plenty of "choppers" to ferry in supplies just as soon as there is some place to which to take those supplies. You cannot just start collection material and then just start dumplin it at any old place. It would be ridiculous to pick up a pallet of canned corn and just dump it on some street corner.
G |
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| Ceenit |
I think that all would agree that there are unfortunatley many lessons learned from this tragic event, and countless opportunities for improving the warning, evacuation, rescue and recovery efforts. The current price for this is unfortunatly human suffering and loss of life.
I do think that many street corners would appreciate a pallet of water and rations to be dumped in their area. This wouldn't be very efficient, but sometimes an immediate shotgut approach is more effective than a thoughtful and carefully aimed arrow.
Regarding the looting--To see families holding their small babies or the elderly who had had no food or water for days is enough to bring tears to any human being. Or the child so hot and undernourished that the mother cannot wake him up. So while I do condemn looters and low lifes who are stealing non-essentials...I only wish the stores had more food, water, formula and diapers on the shelves for the needy to survive....I can only imagine what lengths I would go to prevent my child from this kind of suffering.
But enough of this ranting for me. It is too easy to talk or pontificate about the suffering of others. Who here has given a pint of blood or emptied their wallet this week to give to those in need. Now is the time for support and action, not sitting on the sidelines. The politicians will pass out plenty of blame in the months to come. |
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| crmsnidol |
Now it seems downright selfish and insensitive to complain about gas prices after seeing what is going on in the Gulf Coast.
Tragic. |
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| laborlitigator |
I usually complain about news coverage but in this situation, I applaud the work that has enlightened our us to the devastation.
It just seems unfortunate that disproportionately so many African Americans were affected by it.
I'll probably get flamed by this, but I wonder if the relief effort would be same if that were Hilton Head or the North Shore of Long Island. Somehow, I think not. . . |
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| xfactor |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
...disproportionately so many African Americans were affected by it. ...I'll probably get flamed by this, but I wonder if the relief effort would be same if that were Hilton Head or the North Shore of Long Island. Somehow, I think not. . .
You took the words out of my mouth... I was 'bitting my tounge'... but the effort level and demographic makeup are obvious... In our current culture, if you are poor, and a person of color, you are deemed expendable. Many will deny it, but it just the sad fact |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by xfactor
You took the words out of my mouth... I was 'bitting my tounge'... but the effort level and demographic makeup are obvious... In out current culture, if you are poor, and a person of color, you are deemed expendable. Many will deny it, but it just the sad fact
Perhaps I am naive, but I would like to think that not to be the case.
I really do think that this country was simply not prepared for that amount and type of devastation. Lets not forget we are talking about a major metropolitan city, not some minor outpost. |
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| Ceenit |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
Perhaps I am naive, but I would like to think that not to be the case.
I really do think that this country was simply not prepared for that amount and type of devastation. Lets not forget we are talking about a major metropolitan city, not some minor outpost.
I agree, I do not think socio-economic status is related to the responsiveness of the relief effots. |
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| Blackura |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
I'll probably get flamed by this, but I wonder if the relief effort would be same if that were Hilton Head or the North Shore of Long Island. Somehow, I think not. . .
I actually typed in the same thing in my message above, but then decided to delete it before posting. There's no way to prove it, so it's a moot point. The only difference between your post and mine was that I had typed Hollywood and Westchester where you typed Hilton Head and North Shore.
You're not alone in thinking this possibility. |
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| perk |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
I usually complain about news coverage but in this situation, I applaud the work that has enlightened our us to the devastation.
It just seems unfortunate that disproportionately so many African Americans were affected by it.
I'll probably get flamed by this, but I wonder if the relief effort would be same if that were Hilton Head or the North Shore of Long Island. Somehow, I think not. . .
It never ceases to amaze me how people only seem to see one side of the situation when it comes to helping African Americans. Truth is that the local, state, and federal governments did offer help at the appropriate time. They ordered everyone to leave New Orleans days in advance. Now you can say that poverty prevented evacuation for some small portion of the folks still there, but you cannot say that most of the people there were helpless and couldn't take the help when it was appropriate to take it. Don't tell me that blacks don't own cars or know anyone to catch a ride with on the way out. Most chose to reject the government's help and chose to stay there even when the government was trying to help them by ordering them to evacuate.
My heart goes out to those suffering now, but I can't help but note your comparison to Hilton Head or Long Island. The obvious, and somehow completely overlooked, truth is that if we were talking about help for either of those places there wouldn't be hundreds of thousands standing around waiting for someone to come bail them out. The people in either of those places would have taken the government's help at the appropriate time and evacutated.
Now, because of their own bad choices, everyone in New Orleans is running around blaming the same government that tried to help and is still trying to help now. I am completely unsympathetic to those who now want to make this a race issue and, not surprisingly, offer only one side of the race issue for consideration. |
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| xfactor |
quote:
Originally posted by perk
... Don't tell me that blacks don't own cars or know anyone to catch a ride with on the way out. Most chose to reject the government's help and chose to stay there even when the government was trying to help them by ordering them to evacuate....
Where did you get this information from?:confused:
Are you suggesting that people with means of transportation just arbitrarily decided to hang out for the party?
As I hinted in a previous post, many people are so insulated from reality, that it may shock them that people don't have TV's, Internet, cars, ect, ect. It may be hard for some to understand, but trust me, I've seen it PERSONALLY... therefore, I speak with certitude, and authority. I KNOW what I'm talking about... |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by perk
It never ceases to amaze me how people only seem to see one side of the situation when it comes to helping African Americans. Truth is that the local, state, and federal governments did offer help at the appropriate time. They ordered everyone to leave New Orleans days in advance. Now you can say that poverty prevented evacuation for some small portion of the folks still there, but you cannot say that most of the people there were helpless and couldn't take the help when it was appropriate to take it. Don't tell me that blacks don't own cars or know anyone to catch a ride with on the way out. Most chose to reject the government's help and chose to stay there even when the government was trying to help them by ordering them to evacuate.
My heart goes out to those suffering now, but I can't help but note your comparison to Hilton Head or Long Island. The obvious, and somehow completely overlooked, truth is that if we were talking about help for either of those places there wouldn't be hundreds of thousands standing around waiting for someone to come bail them out. The people in either of those places would have taken the government's help at the appropriate time and evacutated.
Now, because of their own bad choices, everyone in New Orleans is running around blaming the same government that tried to help and is still trying to help now. I am completely unsympathetic to those who now want to make this a race issue and, not surprisingly, offer only one side of the race issue for consideration.
That's why I try to get as many minorities on my jury as possible because Caucasians simply cannot comprehend the issue of racism and discrimination.
OK, Perk, its all the black folks fault for staying there, right. . . |
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| xfactor |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
That's why I try to get as many minorities on my jury as possible because Caucasians simply cannot comprehend the issue of racism and discrimination.
OK, Perk, its all the black folks fault for staying there, right. . .
LL, it is this type of disconnect that is consistent with my theory of the 'relief effort'... The common mindset is that 'those people are poor because they are all lazy, uneducated, illiterate, uncultured, ect, (and i'ts their fault) ect. That they pose a drain on our society and economy.... they are not worth saving"... Simple cost/benefit analysis... ECON 101. |
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| eurohazard |
I think the lack of help isn't because the people in need are mostly black. But rather the few idiots who decided to shoot guns at helicopters and police are to be blamed. If you were a cop, would you want to approach that area....honestly?
It also bugs me that people think the military and National Guard have been slow to react. It's not like they can just drop off 10,000 troops. Those guys need water, food, and shelter too. The logistics are insane.
I do wish they could have flown over, and just dropped MREs and water throughout the cities though. |
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| perk |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
That's why I try to get as many minorities on my jury as possible because Caucasians simply cannot comprehend the issue of racism and discrimination.
OK, Perk, its all the black folks fault for staying there, right. . .
No, now that you and several thoughtful others have clarified it for me, I've seen the error of my ways. Thanks for enlightening my narrow caucausian mind with your elevated ideas on race because I, being white, simply cannot understand. In any event, I should have been able to figure it out myself -- it's all the 'gubment's fault!
All joking aside, I do around five to ten pro bono cases a year here in D.C. and I see the problem all the time. Take some of your own advice and don't presume to lecture me just because I dared to disagree. Intelligent discourse belongs to those that dare to speak the truth, regardless of politically correctness.
PS And I thought that race-based jury selection was outlawed some time back in Batson v. Kentucky. But alas, the issue of race may work in more than one direction, huh?. So I guess what you're saying is that it's perfectly ok for some of us to use it when convenient. Don't worry, even my narrow caucasian mind picked up on that point. |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by perk
No, now that you and several thoughtful others have clarified it for me, I've seen the error of my ways. Thanks for enlightening my narrow caucausian mind with your elevated ideas on race because I, being white, simply cannot understand. In any event, I should have been able to figure it out myself -- it's all the 'gubment's fault!
All joking aside, I do around five to ten pro bono cases a year here in D.C. and I see the problem all the time. Take some of your own advice and don't presume to lecture me just because I dared to disagree. Intelligent discourse belongs to those that dare to speak the truth, regardless of politically correctness.
PS And I thought that race-based jury selection was outlawed some time back in Batson v. Kentucky. But alas, the issue of race may work in more than one direction, huh?. So I guess what you're saying is that it's perfectly ok for some of us to use it when convenient. Don't worry, even my narrow caucasian mind picked up on that point.
Unless you can prove that I'm only selecting jurors solely upon race, your Batson challenge fails. Tough burden to meet especially when I can have other bases to excuse jurors. |
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| perk |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Unless you can prove that I'm only selecting jurors solely upon race, your Batson challenge fails. Tough burden to meet especially when I can have other bases to excuse jurors.
Yes, we both know that well. And we both know that that wasn't my point. |
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| Warzau |
| Okay guys I can see where this is starting to go. Let's leave out the race card, the politics ,etc,etc,etc. |
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| xfactor |
quote:
Originally posted by Warzau
... Let's leave out the race card, the politics ,etc,etc,etc.
Personally, I've always disliked that term 'race card', as if race issues were akin to a game of cards. It is no game.. the issues of race is too serious to be trivialized... My .02 |
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| csimo |
I won't bother to address the race issue... makes me sick and those that play that game are the problem.
Yes, people that could have left didn't. Many, not all, stayed by choice. This is not due to economic status, or the color of their skin. It has everything to do with ignorance. Ignorance is the bottom line.
If we didn't have to deal with ignorance all that we would be doing is worrying about property damage for the most part.
Looters should be shot, and zero tolerance for other crimes under martial law.
Should New Orleans be rebuilt? Not in the present location. Not one single penny of government money should be spent to rebuild anything below sea level. A move to higher ground is fine.
That's my opinion and entitled to it. |
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| eRauL |
quote:
Originally posted by Ceenit
I agree, I do not think socio-economic status is related to the responsiveness of the relief effots.
Thursday (Sep 1 '05) LA Times has an interesting article on the preparedness of Florida and Louisiana-Mississippi.
The article states that Florida got plenty of federal government attention to beef up emergency response network while Louisiana and Mississippi got their request reduced or even rejected. The article implies that Florida's being key-state for reelection plays some role in that.
Personally, I think all the dire warning , prediction, and research from the past ten years simply fell on deaf ears. |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by Blackura
Are there no choppers anywhere? ... There are plenty of choppers available for news media and gawkers ...
There is no denying the slow response for help and the media is quick to tell us all that. However I wonder if those choppers who delivered the media to bring us the photos and the stories about the lack of food and water BROUGHT any relief supplies with them??
The very choppers who brought us the news are just as guilty as those they are accusing. |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
I really do think that this country was simply not prepared for that amount and type of devastation. Lets not forget we are talking about a major metropolitan city, not some minor outpost.
I used to live in New Orleans and I always knew that a direct strike from a Cat 5 would devastate the city. My old home is gone. New Orleans survived a very near miss back in 1998 and "talked" about things they could do to better prepare for the next time. Sadly it was all talk.
From an AP report: After Hurricane Georges barely missed New Orleans in 1998, there was talk of using city buses to evacuate New Orleans residents without cars. But apparently, that proposal never developed into an executable plan.
The mayor recommended that people trapped in New Orleans during a major hurricane take shelter in the Superdome. But the stadium was never intended as a full-scale relief center; there were no stocks of food or water.
Nor was there an official plan for the evacuation of the Superdome in the event that the city was inundated and uninhabitable, or for the evacuation of anybody who did not leave the city before the storm. |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by eurohazard
I think the lack of help isn't because the people in need are mostly black. But rather the few idiots who decided to shoot guns at helicopters and police are to be blamed. If you were a cop, would you want to approach that area....honestly? .
This just in. Peraps some folks don't want help. As the end of the article suggests, the whole story may not be in yet??
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation...-buscrash_x.htm
Published - Sept 02 2005 09:01PM CDT || AP
OPELOUSAS, La. (AP) — A bus shuttling hurricane victims out of New Orleans crashed Friday after one of the passengers grew agitated and ended up in a struggle with the driver, killing one person and injuring more than a dozen, a police official said.
Police Capt. Mark LeBlanc said that after the tussle, the driver lost control of the bus, sending it across a median and overturning on the other side of the highway, about 130 miles west of New Orleans.
There were between 45 and 50 passengers on board, and 17 of them were injured, police said. All the passengers on the bus — many of whom were getting some much-needed shuteye after days of sleeplessness inside the Superdome — were brought to local hospitals for evaluation and treatment. "We have multiple critical injuries and multiple serious injuries and some minor injuries," said Trooper Willie Williams, spokesman for the state police.
The bus was the last of five charter buses in a convoy from New Orleans. It was unclear where the storm victims were being taken.
One passenger, however, disputed accounts of a struggle causing the crash. |
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| msu79gt82 |
FYI: I'm watching the news now showing Biloxi, MS - all of the desperate victems interviewed and shown are white. Turns out that Biloxi, MS has a high percentage of white citizens. New Orleans on the other hand has a very high minority population. Intersting how the news has a tendency to reflect the actual population of an area.
From the 2000 Census: New Orleans is 67.3% Black. Thus it should be no surprise that most of the folks on the news is black.
BTW: New Orleans seemed at first to have survived the worst of the flooding. Things did not look that bad Monday; I was pleasantly surprised. It wasn't until later Monday that news of the levee breaches started coming and it wasn't until Tuesday that flooding became widespead. Perhaps (rightly or wrongly) that contributed to the slow response. |
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| eurohazard |
csimo says:
quote:
Looters should be shot, and zero tolerance for other crimes under martial law.
I originally thought the same. However, some "looting" footage I saw had women carrying ONLY diapers, wipes, and formula. Those people shouldn't be shot! They have little babies to care for, and damn it they are doing what it takes!
I will not vouch at all for the ass holes grabbing TVs (no power idiots), guns (plan on hunting for food?), or 15 pairs of Nike Shocks (only have 2 feet). |
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| Warzau |
quote:
Originally posted by xfactor
Personally, I've always disliked that term 'race card', as if race issues were akin to a game of cards. It is no game.. the issues of race is too serious to be trivialized... My .02
My apologizes then, still the same warning re this thread. |
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| Warzau |
Personally I think it's disgusting how when questioned, all in power have been throwing their hands up and saying,"I don't know" I don't know why their is no food or water or why the 20 buses are not at the underpass. I love how certain people are opportunistic in saying I will get buses here. Screw the buses they need medical, food , and water.
All of this take me aback to wondering during the cold war. What if, the USSR did do something. We would be screwed. This disaster happened to the lower 3 states and while the rest of the US functions. WTH. We can't help them, why? |
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| G. COLTON |
quote:
Originally posted by Warzau
Personally I think it's disgusting how when questioned, all in power have been throwing their hands up and saying,"I don't know" I don't know why their is no food or water or why the 20 buses are not at the underpass. I love how certain people are opportunistic in saying I will get buses here. Screw the buses they need medical, food , and water.
All of this take me aback to wondering during the cold war. What if, the USSR did do something. We would be screwed. This disaster happened to the lower 3 states and while the rest of the US functions. WTH. We can't help them, why?
We CAN help them and we ARE helping them.
For some reason too many people think that assistance after a major disaster happens instantly. This would only be the case if it was known 4 weeks ahead of the disaster that it was going to happen.
Getting together the people, supplies, transportation, etc. that is required takes time. Some help such as heliocopters to rescue people off roofs can be there immediately (read withing 24 hours) as there is usually a Coast Guard presence within a relatively short distance.
The only was to greately speed up assistance to any type of disaster is to maintain a "disaster" center. In this centrally located place the govt would have a range of all possible supplies that could be required. These would include hurricane, volcano eruptions, earthquake, tornados, etc. We would also have the people required to go with these supplies. Also, just so that we could be sure that everything got to where it is needed within 48 hours, at least 25% of all goods would be preloaded on aircraft that are sitting on alert.
Now this is not going to be cheap. The price tag will be billions per year. I am sure that no one will argue that this is too much to pay to speed up the response time by a day or two.
People, be realistic. If you are not going to establish an immediate response center (that will still take 24 to 48 hes to respond) you are going to live with longer response times. Everything in life takes times. Especially gathering together the necessary people, supplies and transportation.
G |
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by G. COLTON
Now this is not going to be cheap. The price tag will be billions per year.
G
Well, since we've currently spent $191B for the war in Iraq, Nawlins should be pennies on the dollar. |
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| xfactor |
I didn't realize that I attended the possible last Mardi Gras last February. Before we boarded the cruise ship Carnival Conquest, we enjoyed the festivities and visited with my best friends daughters who attend Xavier University.
One daughter managed to get to Nashville safely. One daughter is safely in Dallas. One daughter is unaccounted for. Aparently, the evacuation traffic bottlenecked...
quote:
Originally posted by G. COLTON
...People, be realistic. If you are not going to establish an immediate response center (that will still take 24 to 48 hes to respond) you are going to live with longer response times. Everything in life takes times. Especially gathering together the necessary people, supplies and transportation.
G
Realistic we are... GWB apparently agrees with the sentiment that the response was bad... Lets not kid ourselves...
:rolleyes: |
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| hammermdx |
quote:
Originally posted by xfactor
I didn't realize that I attended the possible last Mardi Gras last February. Before we boarded the cruise ship Carnival Conquest, we enjoyed the festivities and visited with my best friends daughters who attend Xavier University.
One daughter managed to get to Nashville safely. One daughter is safely in Dallas. One daughter is unaccounted for...
I'll be keeping you and your family in my prayers..... |
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| dvilla |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Well, since we've currently spent $191B for the war in Iraq, Nawlins should be pennies on the dollar.
Why not bring back the billion$ alloted for Iraq's reconstruction and use it to rehabilitate those affected by Katrina?? Anyway most contractors in Iraq have already left, they can not leave the green zone and work on the field due to the insurgency -- and that means the reconstruction money requested by GW and approved by Congress must be sitting somewhere. Until now the oil fields of Iraq have not been fixed which is one of the reason why we have this oil crunch. If only Lousiana and Missisippi have oil underneath then it's highly probable that GW, et al would have been there even before Katrina hit. |
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| carguy1234 |
I'm sure most of us are helping in any way we can with this relief effort, either with money, or time, or providing shelter for those stranded. But I do urge everyone to check out the charities before you give money, since not all are as efficient or as noble as some in these situations.
One site I've been using to research charities is www.give.org It will show how well each charity stacks up in several key areas. It amazes me that some charities give pennies on the dollar to the actual causes. I'd be interested if others have links to similar watchdog sites.
The level of support pouring in after Katrina is now unprecedented. Even my state over a thousand miles away is taking in thousands of the stranded and has plans to provide food and shelter to them for a year or more. Many other states are stepping up too.
It's too bad that many take this opportunity to get out the "poison pen" and assess blame as they see fit, as if they themselves are the righteous among us. Let's let higher powers be our judge, and how about us humans just help each other out the best we can. Peace. |
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| Blackura |
quote:
Originally posted by carguy1234
I'm sure most of us are helping in any way we can with this relief effort, either with money, or time, or providing shelter for those stranded. But I do urge everyone to check out the charities before you give money, since not all are as efficient or as noble as some in these situations.
One site I've been using to research charities is www.give.org It will show how well each charity stacks up in several key areas. It amazes me that some charities give pennies on the dollar to the actual causes. I'd be interested if others have links to similar watchdog sites.
The level of support pouring in after Katrina is now unprecedented. Even my state over a thousand miles away is taking in thousands of the stranded and has plans to provide food and shelter to them for a year or more. Many other states are stepping up too.
It's too bad that many take this opportunity to get out the "poison pen" and assess blame as they see fit, as if they themselves are the righteous among us. Let's let higher powers be our judge, and how about us humans just help each other out the best we can. Peace.
Thank you for a very thoughtful and compassionate post.
It's very hard to sit silently while hearing the tragic cries of people in a disaster such as this, and simultaneously watching them get no help from the incompetent, uninformed, uncaring people who have the power and money to help. This is a very emotional time for everybody.
Voters will judge them next election, but you are absolutely right... ultimately, we all will be judged my a much higher power. |
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| Blackura |
A good place to give. It takes mere seconds (put it on your credit card), and they have one of the best ratios of money going to help vs money going to administration and fund raising.
http://www.americares.org/ |
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| xfactor |
quote:
Originally posted by Blackura
... ultimately, we all will be judged my a much higher power.
Amen... Although, sometimes, I wish we could arrange the meeting with the maker right away! ;)
Good news:
My best friends church has will be paying transportation for her daughters to get home... Still no word on one daughter... |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by xfactor
Amen... Although, sometimes, I wish we could arrange the meeting with the maker right away! ;)
Apparantly your wish is being granted. New Orleans police shot and killed 4 or 5 "citizens" who opend fire of the corps of engineers repairing a levee. http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation...shootings_x.htm
Its amazing that in the midst of such tradegy and heartbreak the low-life open fire on relief copters and construction workers. |
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| Blackura |
This just in from the Associated Press:
WASHINGTON (AP) -- A Halliburton Co. subsidiary that has come under fire for its reconstruction work in Iraq has begun tapping a $500 million Navy contract to do emergency repairs at Gulf Coast naval and Marine facilities that were battered by Hurricane Katrina.
The subsidiary, Kellogg, Brown & Root Services Inc. of Arlington, Va., was awarded the competitive bid contract last July to provide debris removal and other emergency work associated with natural disasters.
Jan Davis, a spokeswoman for the Naval Facilities Engineering Command, said Sunday that KBR will receive $12 million for work at Naval Air Station Pascagoula, Naval Station Gulfport and Stennis Space Center in Mississippi. It will receive $4.6 million for work at two smaller Navy facilities in New Orleans and others in the South.
The company has provided similar work after major disasters in the United States and abroad for more than 15 years, including in Florida after Hurricane Andrew.
But KBR has been at the center of scrutiny for receiving a five-year, no-bid contract to restore Iraqi oil fields shortly before the war began in 2003.
Halliburton has reported being paid $10.7 billion for Iraq-related government work during 2003 and 2004. The company reported its pretax profits from that work as $163 million. Pentagon auditors have questioned tens of millions of dollars of Halliburton charges for its operations there.
Late last month three congressional Democrats asked Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld to investigate the demotion of a senior civilian Army official who publicly criticized the awarding of that contract.
Bunnatine H. Greenhouse, who had been the Army Corps of Engineers' top procurement official since 1997, was removed from her position last month for what the Corps called a poor job performance. The lawmakers said the demotion "appears to be retaliation" for her June 27 testimony before Congress in which she detailed her objections to the award of contracts for Iraq projects.
Vice President Dick Cheney headed Halliburton from 1995 to 2000, and Democrats have questioned whether the company has gotten favorable treatment because of his connection. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by Blackura
A good place to give. It takes mere seconds (put it on your credit card), and they have one of the best ratios of money going to help vs money going to administration and fund raising.
http://www.americares.org/
Thanks, we just made a donation through them. Somehow it never feels like enough. |
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| mdxx3 |
I just followed DaleB and Blackura, and did a small $100 donation online at that http://www.americares.org/ website.
Earlier today the teenagers in church were busy baking/selling cookies to raise money. They said they will send it to the American Red Cross for this hurricane relied. All of us were told to bring our most dirty cars next Sunday because these kids will have to wash them to raise more funds for this relief. |
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| hammermdx |
| We did a donation through the Red Cross web site the other night. Even my kids got into the act by donating some of their allowance to the cause. I saw the beginning o | | | |
