| mdxforever |
http://www.sipers.com/
Anyone tried this yet ? I had mine siped (GY Integerity @ 8-10mm tread depth) and man what a difference in wet traction! It was like putting life back into these tires! Ride has improved slightly too. Not had a chance to check out snow traction yet but I dont think I will be disappointed. |
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| DaleB |
My tires are safe! I can't find a 'siper' within 25 miles of me! :D
Well, if I lived near ten thousand lakes I might consider it... |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxforever
[Ride has improved slightly too. Not had a chance to check out snow traction yet but I dont think I will be disappointed.
I think you will also find a 20% improvement in gas mileage.. AND more horsepower...
Here's a question:
I'm running Michelin Pilot Sport 2s on my other car- around $300 a tire, plus mounting. These tires are regularly tested by various companies against the very best out there- there are on line comparisons in everything from ride to handling to wet and snow perf..... how come mich doesn't spend the $3-4 per tire to sip them? An edge on the competiton is incredibly valuable...
There's got to be a reason why tire mfgs don't sip tires. Anyone know? |
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| mdxforever |
YOU are dreaming up the 20% mileage and horsepower. Where do they claim that ? I did not find mileage or horsepower gain and I did not say so!
I dont understand what makes people critcize things in a haste they haven't even tried ??
The brochure I got from the store had the same question as you asked - why dont manufacturer's do it then ? The answer was basically that it would be an expensive in terms of time and money for them to set it up in a typical assembly line. |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxforever
YOU are dreaming up the 20% mileage and horsepower. Where do they claim that ? I did not find mileage or horsepower gain and I did not say so!
I dont understand what makes people critcize things in a haste they haven't even tried ??
The brochure I got from the store had the same question as you asked - why dont manufacturer's do it then ? The answer was basically that it would be an expensive in terms of time and money for them to set it up in a typical assembly line.
Sorry, my first comments were (lame) attempts at humor.
The reason that mfgs can't do it is curious. I guess I can't see how there is price sensitivity on tires for porsches, MB and BMW, with Z ratings and prices above $300. just think what will happen in the next road and track test if a mfg siped the tires and tronced the competition?
I am really curious as to why not" does it reduce the safey? Increase wear? there must be something else.
I'm not criticizing- doubting is a better term, and hoping someone here has mroe info
A |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by ardvarkus
Sorry, my first comments were (lame) attempts at humor.
The reason that mfgs can't do it is curious. I guess I can't see how there is price sensitivity on tires for porsches, MB and BMW, with Z ratings and prices above $300. just think what will happen in the next road and track test if a mfg siped the tires and tronced the competition?
I am really curious as to why not" does it reduce the safey? Increase wear? there must be something else.
I'm not criticizing- doubting is a better term, and hoping someone here has mroe info
A
Well, manufacturers don't 'true' tires either. Although some may. I can remember when getting tires trued was a big thing for the enthusiast (as in weekend-racer, etc.). That was in the day of donut molds vs. segmented molds for radial tires. Early US radials used conventional methods which were frequently less precise.
I suppose tolerances are held much tighter these days in tire plants. I certainly hear fewer complaints, but on rare occassions I do hear of an out of round tire being trued.
It would seem a properly designed premium winter tire would not need additional siping.
Give him time, ard. Your humor has not reached him it....it will. ;) |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
Well, manufacturers don't 'true' tires either. Although some may. I can remember when getting tires trued was a big thing for the enthusiast (as in weekend-racer, etc.). That was in the day of donut molds vs. segmented molds for radial tires. Early US radials used conventional methods which were frequently less precise.
I suppose tolerances are held much tighter these days in tire plants. I certainly hear fewer complaints, but on rare occassions I do hear of an out of round tire being trued.
It would seem a properly designed premium winter tire would not need additional siping.
Give him time, ard. Your humor has not reached him it....it will. ;)
On ultra high end (and even mid end) tires, they will pass incredibly stringent tests for true (read Hunter 9700 road force balancing)... mfgs spend a lot to eek out every last hundredth of a G in the skid pad tests. I maintain that siping is a money maker for the tire shops- like Nitrogen fills- half a truth here or there.
Still, I'd love to hear of tets showing the benefits over the life of typical passenger car tires. |
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| SuperTech |
quote:
Originally posted by ardvarkus
I am really curious as to why not" does it reduce the safey? Increase wear? there must be something else.
Siping is only done on all season or snow tires. It gives the snow/mud/whatever somewhere to displace. So you get better traction on crappy surfaces. But you sacrifice dry traction. And in some cases, sipes add tire noise too.
What do Formula 1 cars use for tires? Slicks. But when it's wet? Rain groove tires. The grooves give somewhere for the water to go so the rubber stays in contact with the road. But in the end...that contact patch is less than if it had just been a full slick being used. This is why peformance tires don't have sipes. A road legal high performance tire will have grooves to displace water, yes. But it will have tread blocks that are as stiff as possible to resist deforming under high g loads. And they can't do that if the tread blocks are interupted with sipes or if they're too tall like you see on truck tires...but then again nobody expects razor sharp handling from a truck. |
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| Warzau |
quote:
Originally posted by SuperTech
What do Formula 1 cars use for tires? Slicks. But when it's wet? Rain groove tires. The grooves give somewhere for the water to go so the rubber stays in contact with the road. But in the end...that contact patch is less than if it had just been a full slick being used. This is why peformance tires don't have sipes. A road legal high performance tire will have grooves to displace water, yes. But it will have tread blocks that are as stiff as possible to resist deforming under high g loads. And they can't do that if the tread blocks are interupted with sipes or if they're too tall like you see on truck tires...but then again nobody expects razor sharp handling from a truck.
True slicks are no longer used in F1 they use groved to lessen contact patch and reduce mechanical grip( stupid FIA ). They haven't used true slicks since 95 IIRC. But yes they use grove then intermediate then full wet tires. But remember F1 it's still all about performance and mechanical grip. BTW tonight is the last race in China.... |
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| SuperTech |
I guess that shows how long it's been since I last really payed attention to open wheel racing.
OK, how about a Lemans car? Rain...groove tires. Dry...slicks. The point is that it's all about putting a bigger rubber contact patch on the road. |
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