| Paul S. |
| I never had any concerns about buying a first-year Honda or Acura product. I purchased an '86 Accord, '90 Accord, '94 Integra, '94 Accord, '98 Accord & '01 MDX. For many of these, I was on a waiting list. All were first year models and were nearly flawless through many miles. With the exception of the '94 Integra that was rear-ended & totaled, I put over 150K miles on most of them. Then I bought an '04 TL. One big rattlebox. The dealers refused to accept that there were rattle issues, but luckily the TL forum readers constantly posted solutions to the many many rattles. I packed so much foam & felt into that car it would probably float. After one year the leather on the seats was stretched out and wrinkled, paint was peeling off the bumper where it rubbed on the rear taillight, paint was chipping off the hood at a record pace. Gaps around interior panels were inconsistent. Great motor but far too much torque steer. After 18 months I traded the TL for an A4 which has been flawless. I know that Acura has finally addressed many of the issues I had with my TL and hopefully they make sure the next generation MDX is solid before they put them on dealer lots. |
|
|
| Fabvsix |
| Honda corporation LOVED you ! $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ (waiting list BS).......;) ;) |
|
|
| crazymjb |
I suppose you were on Acurazine?
We have a late model 05 TL, and yeah, there is slight leather ware(nothing that some treatment wont fix) and there are still many(3-4) rattles in the cold. I realize some of these problems were worse on the 04, but the car is very mechanically sound, and I havent heard of any mechanical failures on the 04+. As long as acura keeps its first year issues non-mechanical, I am okay with any slight fixes that the vehicle may require.
As for torque steer, thats not a "first year" problem, it is what happens when you put 270HP down in front.
Audis are great cars, and I wish you luck with yours, but I would trust a first year acura 10X more than a late model audi in terms of reliability.
Mike |
|
|
| Paul S. |
| You don't have to pay MSRP if you're on a waiting list. Use Edmunds and kbb.com to help determine how much invoice is on the new car and what your trade should be worth. I only paid $500 over invoice on the '04 TL and I waited 3 months for one. (Maybe now I know why) I special ordered my '06 A4 and only paid $1000 over invoice, which is about $2000 less than the sticker. |
|
|
| Paul S. |
Hey Mike,
I understand that the torque steer wasn't a first year problem. The TL should be awd to handle it's awesome engine but that would kill RL sales. The redesigned seats on your '05 have multiple seams running across them to reduce the leather stretching every '04 has. I agree that German cars can have more issues, but they have come a long way. I put 160K on a '98 A4 and the only problem was a set of rear wheel bearings. A guy I work with has 220K on his '98 A4. Even Consumer Reports now recommends the A4 as reliable. |
|
|
| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by Paul S.
Hey Mike,
I understand that the torque steer wasn't a first year problem. The TL should be awd to handle it's awesome engine but that would kill RL sales. The redesigned seats on your '05 have multiple seams running across them to reduce the leather stretching every '04 has. I agree that German cars can have more issues, but they have come a long way. I put 160K on a '98 A4 and the only problem was a set of rear wheel bearings. A guy I work with has 220K on his '98 A4. Even Consumer Reports now recommends the A4 as reliable.
CR gives the A4 a "standard" recommendation but it only rates an average for reliability.
Recommended:
"To be recommended, a vehicle must meet several criteria. To provide better guidance for car buyers, Consumer Reports offers consumers two tiers of recommended vehicles. To earn our standard recommendation, , vehicles must have performed well in CR's tests, have average or better predicted reliability, and, if crash-tested, provide good overall crash protection based on our composite of the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) and National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) crash tests. Pickups and SUVs also must not have tipped up in the government rollover test, or, if not tested, must offer electronic stability control (ESC).
To earn our more stringent, top recommendation, , vehicles must meet all standard requirements, have been included in both the frontal-offset and side-crash tests conducted by the IIHS, and provide very good or excellent overall crash protection. This higher recommendation provides an extra level of assurance for those who place the highest priority on crash protection." |
|
|
| crazymjb |
I agree the TL should definatly be AWD, and I believe Acura released a statement saying the next gen will be. Now that acura is getting into forced induction I would love to see either a Super charged I6 or an I6 with a variable geometry turbo(though I would still prefer SC) and i-vtec. At this point I am waiting to see what they did with the NSX as far as track performance goes.
For now I guess I will have to wait for the new MDX for our next update.
Our seats are a little wrinkly :(, but no "butt prints"
Mike |
|
|
| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by crazymjb
I agree the TL should definatly be AWD, and I believe Acura released a statement saying the next gen will be.
I would love to see that. That would be the first time Acura has ever released info about a model that early.......... |
|
|
| vicpai |
quote:
Originally posted by Paul S.
I never had any concerns about buying a first-year Honda or Acura product. I purchased an '86 Accord, '90 Accord, '94 Integra, '94 Accord, '98 Accord & '01 MDX. For many of these, I was on a waiting list. All were first year models and were nearly flawless through many miles. With the exception of the '94 Integra that was rear-ended & totaled, I put over 150K miles on most of them. Then I bought an '04 TL. One big rattlebox. The dealers refused to accept that there were rattle issues, but luckily the TL forum readers constantly posted solutions to the many many rattles. I packed so much foam & felt into that car it would probably float. After one year the leather on the seats was stretched out and wrinkled, paint was peeling off the bumper where it rubbed on the rear taillight, paint was chipping off the hood at a record pace. Gaps around interior panels were inconsistent. Great motor but far too much torque steer. After 18 months I traded the TL for an A4 which has been flawless. I know that Acura has finally addressed many of the issues I had with my TL and hopefully they make sure the next generation "MDX is solid before they put them on dealer lots.
......as much as I know that my next vehicle will certainly be the redesigned Acura MDX, it will DEFINITELY not be an '07 model!!...Acura (and most other Japanese brands) used to be "bulletproof" in the past, even with their first year models, but not anymore!!...They have become complacent and now realize that they CAN use customers as their "guinea pigs" to test out their new models....besides this, vehicles in general, have gotten more and more complicated and manufacturers (including the Japanese ones) do not want to spend so much on R&D!!....once the first year guinea pigs report their problems, they excute fixes, just in time for smart buyers to buy the "perfected" vehicles!! ;) .....just look at the new RL. The first year had several issues, whereas I don't see any complaints on the 2nd year '06 model!!...same thing with the TL!.....Oh, and I don't think "I want to be the first one on the block to own one" :rolleyes: as some would say |
|
|
| crazymjb |
I would obviously like an 08, but that isn't an option. The FX is too small and the GX is from 03, and we need a replacement ASAP. I think a year for R&D will make it good enough, and I don't mind being a guinea pig as long as they fix anything that is problematic or potentially problematic, we live 3 miles away from a dealership, so with the loner program its not too much of an inconvienience. Yes, I am trying to justify getting a first year model.
Mike |
|
|
| vicpai |
quote:
Originally posted by crazymjb
I would obviously like an 08, but that isn't an option. The FX is too small and the GX is from 03, and we need a replacement ASAP. I think a year for R&D will make it good enough, and I don't mind being a guinea pig as long as they fix anything that is problematic or potentially problematic, we live 3 miles away from a dealership, so with the loner program its not too much of an inconvienience. Yes, I am trying to justify getting a first year model.
Mike
.....elaborate on this further but I ended up not doing so. In a case like yours, I can perfectly understand going in for a first year model, because you have a GENUINE, LEGITIMATE and INTELLIGENT reason for doing so. If you need (and I repeat the word NEED) a replacement because your lease is running out etc, then I will not attack your intelligence.......but there are some idiots who "want to be the first one on the block to have one" or some who say "ooooh, it's so beautiful, I just gotta have it and have it NOW" (regardless if I get screwed because I had the option of waiting a year and getting a "bug-free" vehicle AND not paying MSRP)
CASE IN POINT:
The first few people who bought the '05 RL (EXCEPT, LIKE I SAID ABOVE, THOSE THAT HAD AN IMMEDIATE NEED FOR A REPLACEMENT VEHICLE), are, IMO, some of the stupidest people alive. They ended up paying MSRP/STICKER price of around 50K, and for their 50 grand, got vehicles with all kinds of bugs that range from rattles, to SH-AWD issues etc. etc. Not only that, but it turned out to be a DOUBLE WHAMMY for these folks, because in about 4 months since it's debut, after the "feeding frenzy" by rabid Acura loyalists died down, and true market forces came into play, the RL's sales plummeted like an anchor!! They literally were giving these 3 to 4k below INVOICE (around 41K or so here at LA dealerships) ....That's an instant 9K or so loss plus add in the normal used-car depreciation and sales tax, and it amounts to something like a WHOPPING 15K or so, in 1 year of ownership :eek: :eek: NOW HOW SMART IS THAT?? .....from what I can see on the Acurazine forums, virtually all of these "first-year" issues seem to have been fixed for the '06 model, and one can be bought at below invoice!!......now don't get me wrong, I think the RL is a FANTASTIC automobile, but because of various factors (such as lack of "brand image" which is such a big deal for the "show-off" minded majority of Americans) the RL has not done well. So, the wise thing is always to wait and see, and that wait might end up saving you a WHOPPING BOAT LOAD OF CASH, not to mention getting a much more trouble-free automobile.
The only exception to the above mentioned rule was the original MDX, because of it's position of being a unique vehicle in it's market segment, when it was introduced, offering things such as 3rd row 7-passenger seating and a perfect blend of performance, space, utility AND PRICE!!...I waited all the way until the 3rd model year and still ended up paying MSRP, but like I said this is simply not going to be the case with the redesigned model. It is likely to go up in price, losing any competitiveness there, and not only has competition in this segment become very fierce, but the SUV market has softened slightly due to gas prices as well. So in 6 months to a year I can definitely see discounts happening here
thats my 2-bit!! :) |
|
|
| clarkjrmac |
quote:
Originally posted by vicpai
.....elaborate on this further but I ended up not doing so. In a case like yours, I can perfectly understand going in for a first year model, because you have a GENUINE, LEGITIMATE and INTELLIGENT reason for doing so. If you need (and I repeat the word NEED) a replacement because your lease is running out etc, then I will not attack your intelligence.......but there are some idiots who "want to be the first one on the block to have one" or some who say "ooooh, it's so beautiful, I just gotta have it and have it NOW" (regardless if I get screwed because I had the option of waiting a year and getting a "bug-free" vehicle AND not paying MSRP)
CASE IN POINT:
The first few people who bought the '05 RL (EXCEPT, LIKE I SAID ABOVE, THOSE THAT HAD AN IMMEDIATE NEED FOR A REPLACEMENT VEHICLE), are, IMO, some of the stupidest people alive. They ended up paying MSRP/STICKER price of around 50K, and for their 50 grand, got vehicles with all kinds of bugs that range from rattles, to SH-AWD issues etc. etc. Not only that, but it turned out to be a DOUBLE WHAMMY for these folks, because in about 4 months since it's debut, after the "feeding frenzy" by rabid Acura loyalists died down, and true market forces came into play, the RL's sales plummeted like an anchor!! They literally were giving these 3 to 4k below INVOICE (around 41K or so here at LA dealerships) ....That's an instant 9K or so loss plus add in the normal used-car depreciation and sales tax, and it amounts to something like a WHOPPING 15K or so, in 1 year of ownership :eek: :eek: NOW HOW SMART IS THAT?? .....from what I can see on the Acurazine forums, virtually all of these "first-year" issues seem to have been fixed for the '06 model, and one can be bought at below invoice!!......now don't get me wrong, I think the RL is a FANTASTIC automobile, but because of various factors (such as lack of "brand image" which is such a big deal for the "show-off" minded majority of Americans) the RL has not done well. So, the wise thing is always to wait and see, and that wait might end up saving you a WHOPPING BOAT LOAD OF CASH, not to mention getting a much more trouble-free automobile.
The only exception to the above mentioned rule was the original MDX, because of it's position of being a unique vehicle in it's market segment, when it was introduced, offering things such as 3rd row 7-passenger seating and a perfect blend of performance, space, utility AND PRICE!!...I waited all the way until the 3rd model year and still ended up paying MSRP, but like I said this is simply not going to be the case with the redesigned model. It is likely to go up in price, losing any competitiveness there, and not only has competition in this segment become very fierce, but the SUV market has softened slightly due to gas prices as well. So in 6 months to a year I can definitely see discounts happening here
thats my 2-bit!! :)
I understand the point you are making, but hindsight is always 20/20. My wife and I bought an 05 RL in January of last year and paid a little under $50K. Sure, it is annoying that you can buy an '06 for much less now, but at the time you don't know what the future holds for a particular car. It was the best deal out there compared to the other cars we looked at like the series 5 BMW, the Audi A6, etc. We didn't buy it to be the first ones on the block with an RL, we bought it because my wife needed a new car and after getting the '04 MDX were very happy with ACURA vehicles. We looked at the TL, but it seemed a lot smaller in the front seat and the ride was not as smooth. The '05 RL has been great and we have not had any of the issues yet that some of the '05 RL's are having. To be honest, the MDX has been in the shop more in the first year than the RL has. |
|
|
| dj-mdx2 |
| To some extent, I agree with vicpai's point of view. Clarkjrmac makes several good points as well. Another way to look at it, is that if those "stupid" people didn't buy the first model years, then the "smarter" people wouldn't benefit from the improvements and recalls that had been made. True, you can argue that R&D should have fixed those bugs even before production, but in the fast-paced world we live in (which most of us are responsible for in one way or another), that just ain't gonna happen. And also, to some people, finances really aren't that big a deal - their thinking may go something like: so what if you lose 20K, there's always that next Turbo SH-AWD to look forward to. To each his own.... |
|
|
| Fabvsix |
I am KNOCKING on wood as I chime in....
I have a 2005 Acura MDX. NEVER have returned since I bought it over a year ago. Has currently 7,800 miles. NO issues whats so ever.
I also have a 2004 Acura RL (8 year production model). NEVER have returned to the dealership in 2.5 years folks ! NOT ONE ISSUE either. I can't tell you the JOY of not having to schedule my precious work time to get my car to dealerships ! Oh and getting a brand new black on black loaded RL (2004) for $38.000.00 not including trade amount and cash down, well let's just say my 8 year investment paid off ! Its nice having a top of line Acura PAID FOR and having got it at a bargain price !
I will NEVER buy 1st production vehicles AGAIN ! ! ! ! ! |
|
|
| mod |
quote:
Originally posted by Fabvsix
I am KNOCKING on wood as I chime in....
I have a 2005 Acura MDX. NEVER have returned since I bought it over a year ago. Has currently 7,800 miles. NO issues whats so ever.
I will NEVER buy 1st production vehicles AGAIN ! ! ! ! !
I haven't had any issues with my 2005 MDX either and its been 4 months (also knocking on wood). Of all the MDX years, I think '05 was the best, all things considered. I forgot what it was like with the '98 Explorer. But now I remember. I was back and forth to the dealer on a regular basis for the 36/3yr period. After that was when the real problems hit like the rear end and transmission replacement. No good faith deal on this one , it was $3K on the tranny and $2K on the rear end. Hence, I swore to go Japanese next time around...either Honda or Toyota family.
I would be less afraid of a first year production of one of these but its nice to feel secure in having a mature product however I know I'll be blown away by what they'll improve and add to the new model. Maybe I'll be a customer again in '08 or '09. Hybrid? |
|
|
| rvehock |
quote:
Originally posted by Fabvsix
I am KNOCKING on wood as I chime in....
I have a 2005 Acura MDX. NEVER have returned since I bought it over a year ago. Has currently 7,800 miles. NO issues whats so ever.
I have a 2001 MDX and in the past 41/2 years of ownership I have only had it to the dealer for the tranny oil jet kit recall, not bad for a first year production vehicle IMHO :4: :4: |
|
|
| Fabvsix |
rvehock:
You are just lucky........here is why I'm gun shy....
I bought the first all newly designed 1998 Honda Accord V6EX Loaded. Rare color (Black Currant Pearl) only 900 made.....2 weeks later, transmission is leaking fluid in my garage. Seals replaced. I bought the car a Honda Concord which I've been a loyal customer to them since then. They were the ONLY dealership to TOUCH (Service) my 1998 Accord and BY THE BOOK I MAY ADD !!!!! Oil changed every 3k miles by them !!!!! At 78,000 miles the transmission had a failure.....results: Transmission replaced under warrany but I had to pay the labor: $600.00 dollars because it was beyond good will .....
So I said to myself bad luck....so I go over to Acura of Concord and buy the all new 2001 Acura CL Type S.....had all the bells and whistles the Accord coupe didn't have......long story short, the transmission failed at 74,000 miles !
Keep in mind I DON'T ABUSE MY CARS PERIOD !! I rarely used the sequential shift feature, rarely did WOT.......Why did they both fail ???????? Poor design, poor addressment on Acura and Honda Corporation behalf......
Beware of first production models......
Nuff said..... |
|
|
| crazymjb |
We do absolutly need a replacement for the van, and the other stuff we considered is either too old or not appealing. Honda did struggle for some time with trannies, but it seems like at this point they have it under control. I am sure we will run into a few bugs on this first year X, but not as many as we would run into if we were to get a 2nd year explorer, Trailblazer, 3rd year magnum, etc...
Mike |
|
|
| mkaresh |
| I hope to have initial reliability info on the 2007 in January 2007, and April 2007 at the latest. Depends on how many I have in my panel soon after they go on sale. |
|
|
|
