| KifsterDDS |
It's not like the MDX is some incredibly popular car whose 2007 model people will go nuts over.
What's the deal with Acura? |
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| dj-mdx2 |
| They've always been that way, as far as I can remember. Some of their employees will probably qualify to work for the CIA. |
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| BigHersh |
I could understand it, if they wre coverty workign on a new Acura, perhaps call the VL, that is secretly being designed by Pinninfarina, or Chris Bangle (under the noses of BMW) that is designed to be every bit the car that the 750iL is, but at 1/2 the cost, with a DOHC, 4.0L, 24-valve, VVti, V-6 that makes 375 HP, and 400 lb ft of torque, but still gets 30 MPG Highway, and 23 MPG city.
I could understand sitting on that...
But, we're talking about an SUV, a family mover- that was immensely popular when released,and probably will be again (especially if the fuel economy improves), no matter how well it can handle, the average sports car will still blaze it in real life, driven by regular folks. There's only so far you can go with SUV designed before it either becomes a van-looking SUV (2007 Tahoe, Yukon, Escalade, etc...) or a car looking SUV (Freestyle, Pacifica, SRX, R300) so they aren't breaking any molds there... About all they can do is improve the handlling, ride quality, give it more power, and get radical with other elements (headlights, taillights, etc...)
I for one, think cars/trucks/SUV's, etc., like helicopters, are getting to the point that they are about as good as they're going to get. So, unless you're crossign a new frontier, or you fear your R&D budget will be compromised by another manufacturer beating you to the market with a similiarly designed vehicle (Anyone notice how much the KIA Sorento looks like a condenced MDX?); there is no need for super-secrecy.
On the Horizon though; Kia and Hyundai both have large SUV's poised to come into the American Market, and they are radically and aggresively designed (The prototypes were anyway); so large that Motor Trend warned, without a V8, they need not bother bringign them to market...
Everybody's getting better; soon, it will not look out of place to have a Hyundai parked in front of a 5,000 square foot home in the suburbs. |
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| crazymjb |
"I for one, think cars/trucks/SUV's, etc., like helicopters, are getting to the point that they are about as good as they're going to get"
I couldn't disagree more. Someone said in the late 1800s that they should close the patent office because everything had been invented... There are millions of inovations that can be made in the Car/truck/suv market that are yet to be implamented, or even thought up.
For example cars are becoming more aerodynamic and generally dropping their drag factor with each release. Car companies wont stop until they have the most efficient, most loaded, and most powerful car out there. Hence the war continues.
In 2007 the Euro accord(TSX) will be equipped with ADAS(in the UK). Ford is also working on a system like that, and I am Hoping the MDX will include it, though it is unlikely. Ford is also reportedly working on the most efficient hybrid system out their using fluid storage under pressure. Fuell cell cars are still in the works... Safety systems must come a long way. I am willing to bet, and a lot, that before you younger guys die, assuming of natural causes, we will see fully autonomous cars. ANOTHER BIG INOVATION. Also, engines... MB is implementing a camless engine, something which cadilac failed at in the 80s. Successfully getting that system running would mean infanitly tunable valving. So much for Vtec. What about the adaptive suspension that NO acuras have, or the Direct shift gearboxs. What about full composite vehicles, SUVs included? And don't get me started on Helicopters.
Mike |
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| JL_SS |
| Being so secretive actually costs Acura sales. It happened with quite a few of us waiting for new Ody info. We wound up with a Sienna because we could get one right away and there wasn't any pre-marketing info out there telling me whether the Ody would be worth the wait over the Sienna. Right now, what is making the average consumer (those who don't follow auto news) aware that a new MDX is worth waiting for over the competition? It is so close to the release that info should be out there. If someone does go into an Acura dealer because they are considering the MDX among other competitors, a dealer can try to sell them a 2006, but then only offer them soft details about the redesign coming out very soon if they don't want the 2006. |
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| G. COLTON |
quote:
Originally posted by KifsterDDS
It's not like the MDX is some incredibly popular car whose 2007 model people will go nuts over.
What's the deal with Acura?
Competition between automative companies has always bee very fierce. They each go to extreeeeemes to keep the others from knowing just what the new model will have.
It is not John Doe from whom they are trying to keep secrets.
G |
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| crazymjb |
I for one am happy. Less sales equals better chance of us getting a good deal.
Mike |
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| KifsterDDS |
quote:
Originally posted by G. COLTON
Competition between automative companies has always bee very fierce. They each go to extreeeeemes to keep the others from knowing just what the new model will have.
It is not John Doe from whom they are trying to keep secrets.
G
If Acura were to release all the info about the 2007 MDX now, I seriously doubt that its competitors would be able to change their 2007 models in time.
Come to think of it, who exactly competes with the MDX? Not Mercedes, BMW, or Porsche. And it's not Kia, Toyota, or Hyundai.
Acura seems to offer the only $35-$40k luxury SUV. Everyone else is either a few thousand above or below it.
....assuming that nobody in their right mind wants to buy an American SUV as a "luxury vehicle".....this is coming from a previous Explorer owner. |
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| crazymjb |
Umm, the current X is over 44MSRP loaded not including "accessories". A stripped X5, even a Cayanne, is in that price range. Also the Lexus GX...
Mike |
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| wmquan |
While I'm sure the secrecy costs them some sales, it also generates a lot of interest and discussion.
Look at the threads here and all the speculation. Look at how a lot of people here breathlessly awaited a weak series of photos (myself included).
There were people intensely interested in just the changes from model year to model year.
Somewhere in Honda marketing, I think they're secretly laughing at us ... ;) |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by KifsterDDS
If Acura were to release all the info about the 2007 MDX now, I seriously doubt that its competitors would be able to change their 2007 models in time.
In defense of G's idea (which I think is only a small part of the reason), I don't think it's a matter of letting competitors change for the 2007 model year.
If you let information out six months earlier, that gives competitors six more months to plan against you. So maybe they don't react in time for the 2007 model year. But they can start planning their changes for the 2008 model year.
Plus the changes aren't necessarily vehicle design changes that take a full model year to change. They can include price adjustments ("hey, we're going to have to charge less for this package") and repackaging options ("hey, our premium package will have to include this at the same price"). |
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| G. COLTON |
quote:
Originally posted by KifsterDDS
If Acura were to release all the info about the 2007 MDX now, I seriously doubt that its competitors would be able to change their 2007 models in time.
Come to think of it, who exactly competes with the MDX? Not Mercedes, BMW, or Porsche. And it's not Kia, Toyota, or Hyundai.
Acura seems to offer the only $35-$40k luxury SUV. Everyone else is either a few thousand above or below it.
....assuming that nobody in their right mind wants to buy an American SUV as a "luxury vehicle".....this is coming from a previous Explorer owner.
Cadillac has a very nice crossover in the same price range. It is likely that I would have purchassed it if my son had of been able to transfer into it from his wheel chair. At that time the edge of the front seat in the SRX was too far from the door frame edge. I understand that they have now changed that.
The Mercedes SUV is in the same price range as the MDX and so is the smaller Lexus. I imagine there are also others out there.
As far as other vehicle manufactures knowing in advance about models it is not necessarily so that they can make changes on that model year. Information alone is worth money to them. The automobile manufacturing world is highly competitive.
G |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by wmquan
While I'm sure the secrecy costs them some sales, it also generates a lot of interest and discussion.
Look at the threads here and all the speculation. Look at how a lot of people here breathlessly awaited a weak series of photos (myself included).
There were people intensely interested in just the changes from model year to model year.
Somewhere in Honda marketing, I think they're secretly laughing at us ... ;)
But the number of speculating fanatics is very small in comparison to even just the total number of MDX owners. This site represents only a few percent of total owners. I would think it would be better to reach the majority with some solid teaser info to get the non internet addicts excited. |
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| KifsterDDS |
quote:
Originally posted by crazymjb
Umm, the current X is over 44MSRP loaded not including "accessories". A stripped X5, even a Cayanne, is in that price range. Also the Lexus GX...
Mike
The key word in your post is "stripped". Besides, MSRP doesn't mean squat. Nobody who can afford an Acura is dumb enough to pay MSRP.
I got my MDX with Navi, dent insurance and rust protection for about $39700. Trust me, the MDX was not my first choice, nor my second, nor my third. I'm just out of school and residency, and couldn't afford the BMW, Porsche, or Mercedes. Make no mistake about it, though, I definitely looked!!!!
A BMW X-5 with NOTHING starts at $43. And when I say "nothing", that means nothing. No automatic transition, no moonroof, no leather seating. Pretty much the same with the Porsche and Mercedes (except the Mercedes comes with auto). Lexus RX similarly spec'ed as my MDX-Navi would cost a few thousand more.
The MDX is unquestionably a half-step down from some of these other cars. Hell! Just look at the interior and the exterior! I like the MDX a lot, but it lacks the luxury aura both inside and out of these other cars. |
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| crazymjb |
While that is true a loaded GX470 is pretty much the same price. Edit: Was, I guess now its a few K more, but either way it comes in pretty close.
Also, and FX35 comprably equipped is similarly priced.
The MDX is NOT in a class of its own.
Mike |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by KifsterDDS
The key word in your post is "stripped". Besides, MSRP doesn't mean squat. Nobody who can afford an Acura is dumb enough to pay MSRP.
I got my MDX with Navi, dent insurance and rust protection for about $39700. Trust me, the MDX was not my first choice, nor my second, nor my third. I'm just out of school and residency, and couldn't afford the BMW, Porsche, or Mercedes. Make no mistake about it, though, I definitely looked!!!!
A BMW X-5 with NOTHING starts at $43. And when I say "nothing", that means nothing. No automatic transition, no moonroof, no leather seating. Pretty much the same with the Porsche and Mercedes (except the Mercedes comes with auto). Lexus RX similarly spec'ed as my MDX-Navi would cost a few thousand more.
The MDX is unquestionably a half-step down from some of these other cars. Hell! Just look at the interior and the exterior! I like the MDX a lot, but it lacks the luxury aura both inside and out of these other cars.
Acura is considered "near luxury". Some are hoping that the redesign moves it closer to luxury. The Volvo XC90 is simliar in size and price to the MDX but is considered closer to luxury.
The first few months of the redesign will likely sell closer to MSRP due to demand. After that it will likely fall off to invoice. But there should be some excellent deals on 2006's towards the end of the year. |
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| oilchange |
Why be secretive about the upcoming 2007? Others have said this already.
In the competitive marketplace, new sells better than old.
If info about the new 2007 became widely known, the sales of the old 2006 would decline and incentives such as low interest loans, discounts or rebates would be needed to move the old vehicles. In the car business and other businesses, new is good. New sells better than old. Sure, there is no guarantee that new is better. But new has a quality that old cannot have, newness. |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by KifsterDDS
Besides, MSRP doesn't mean squat. Nobody who can afford an Acura is dumb enough to pay MSRP.
Well its been a while since I've been called dumb :rolleyes:
FYI 1: Me and many other of my fellow Class of '01 Members who helped get this .org off to a good start paid Full MSRP :eek: (and I know for a fact in my case I got a good deal).
FYI 2: Quite a few Acura die-hards paid Full MSRP for the new 2nd Gen RL back in Oct '04 - Jan '05. However it quickly became apparant that the redesigned RL was a dud and by April '05 it could be had for near Invoice :eek:
While I paid Full MSRP for my '01 MDX in Mar '01 and felt like I got a good deal at the time, I doubt I will ever do that again. The 2nd Gen RL proves that Acura does NOT have all the answers about putting out a vehicle that meets market needs. I hope the 2nd Gen MDX will be a success, but the jury will be out for a while (like I said it took about 5 months or so to prove the RL a dud). |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by msu79gt82
Well its been a while since I've been called dumb :rolleyes:
FYI: Me and many other of my fellow Class of '01 Members who helped get this .org off to a good start paid Full MSRP :eek: (and I know for a fact in my case I got a good deal).
That's right, some dealers were asking over MSRP plus requiring grossly marked up accessories........and the demand supported it :4: . |
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| pianoman41 |
quote:
Originally posted by KifsterDDS
I got my MDX with Navi, dent insurance and rust protection for about $39700.
People still buy rust protection in 2006? :p On a vehicle that has a 10 year, unlimited mile rust-through warranty already? Man have I got some land to sell you.
:D |
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| KifsterDDS |
WRONG! Infiniti FX-35 AWD, not the RWD (remember, we're talking comparable cars here) with the infiniti navigation system will run you $46k MSRP. That's about $4000 above the MDX Touring w/ Nav. Believe me, I looked into this.
The MDX is a very nice car and I consider myself fortunate to have it--don't get me wrong. But do you honestly think your average person would choose it over the Mercedes, BMW X-5, Porsche (not Cayenne S or Turbo), or Infiniti FX 35? No way!
There is, perhaps ONE car that I think ranks the same as the Acura in terms of level of luxury: the Volvo XC-90. HOWEVER, similarly equipped, the Volvo will run about $1 to $2k more....but that's close enough.
I considered heavily the XC-90, and was about to purchase it until my wife suggested we look at the MDX. Personally, I think the Volvo comes across as more luxurious, but I am confident that overall positive ownership experience would be far superior with the Acura. The Acura is a better bargain, and a more sound purchase. That's why we went with it.
Having driven a Honda Accord throughout school with MINIMAL necessary repair, I fully expect the Acura to be as reliable.
quote:
Originally posted by crazymjb
While that is true a loaded GX470 is pretty much the same price. Edit: Was, I guess now its a few K more, but either way it comes in pretty close.
Also, and FX35 comprably equipped is similarly priced.
The MDX is NOT in a class of its own.
Mike
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| KifsterDDS |
quote:
Originally posted by pianoman41
People still buy rust protection in 2006? :p On a vehicle that has a 10 year, unlimited mile rust-through warranty already? Man have I got some land to sell you.
:D
I live near the beach, so yes, rust protection is highly appropriate. Besides, for an extra $299, it's peanuts. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by KifsterDDS
WRONG!
But do you honestly think your average person would choose it over the Mercedes, BMW X-5, Porsche (not Cayenne S or Turbo), or Infiniti FX 35? No way!
Depends on how high reliability ranks on their priority list. |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
Depends on how high reliability ranks on their priority list.
Yes. Not to mention whether or not one needs very good cargo space, and/or an occasional third row. You can't even buy the latter on the new M-class, though the next-gen X5 will have one.
Plenty of folks here who passed over an X5 or the previous-gen ML for the MDX, for whom price wasn't the deciding factor. |
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| phins2rt |
quote:
Originally posted by KifsterDDS
The MDX is a very nice car and I consider myself fortunate to have it--don't get me wrong. But do you honestly think your average person would choose it over the Mercedes, BMW X-5, Porsche (not Cayenne S or Turbo), or Infiniti FX 35? No way!
So are you saying the people that buy MDX's are below or above average??:D |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by phins2rt
So are you saying the poeple that buy MDX's are below or above average??:D
I think they just now a good value when they see one :4: . |
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| Paul S. |
I don't understand it either. Audi has shown the Q7 concept vehicles and Q7 test vehicles for the last two years. This obviously created a lot of interest. Audi brought two Q7s to the NY Auto Show. There was so much activity around them with people constantly climbing through them. I had to wait in line to sit in the driver's seat. As a loyal Audi owner for the past 10 years, I have anxiously waited for the Q7 to be released. I scheduled a client meeting in NY during the auto show to go see the Q7 in person. I'd like to wait to see what the 2007 MDX looks like but I have a feeling I will just get impatient and order a Q7 soon to replace our MDX.
Here is a link to Q7 pictures:
http://forums.audiworld.com/q7/msgs/1827.phtml |
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| renov8r |
The Q7 is quite a bit bigger than the Toureg, but if the VW/Audi/Porshe "tradition' holds true there will be more than just a "passing resemblence" to the older siblings...
Now Honda, otoh, manages to make their vehicles look VERY different. I think the Honda & Acura designers must deliberately look for not-too-expensive changes they can do to REALLY make the vehicles different. Take a look at how much more glass the Pilot has compared to the MDX -- and glass is much easier to "redesign" than trying to stretch the wheelbase...
I think that if Honda was not as proud of its internal designers and behind the scenes production enginnering they WOULD let the marketers dictate more of the product news -- it is different culture. The hapless Audi designers have been making "me too" vehicles just about forever -- even the groundbreaking original Quattro Ralleye Coupe shared it profile with half a dozen vehicles from Nissan, Toyotoa, Ford, GM, Volkswagen and others...
quote:
Originally posted by Paul S.
I don't understand it either. Audi has shown the Q7 concept vehicles and Q7 test vehicles for the last two years. This obviously created a lot of interest. Audi brought two Q7s to the NY Auto Show. There was so much activity around them with people constantly climbing through them. I had to wait in line to sit in the driver's seat. As a loyal Audi owner for the past 10 years, I have anxiously waited for the Q7 to be released. I scheduled a client meeting in NY during the auto show to go see the Q7 in person. I'd like to wait to see what the 2007 MDX looks like but I have a feeling I will just get impatient and order a Q7 soon to replace our MDX.
Here is a link to Q7 pictures:
http://forums.audiworld.com/q7/msgs/1827.phtml
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| Paul S. |
| In regard to the "hapless Audi designers", I read that in developing the new TL & RL that Acura used the Audi A6 interior as a benchmark. The center roof console above the rear-view mirror in the TL and RL is exactly the same as the console in my '98 & '06 A4, including the two tiny LED ambient lights. The taillights on the new RDX are exactly the same as my current A4 avant. I guess Acura thinks those hapless designers have a few good ideas. Do you really think the '98 A6 & '00 TT were me-too designs? They were risky designs that some loved and others hated. I wish Acura would have copied the paint quality of Audi when they painted my MDX. |
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| BigHersh |
To me, the only manufacturer whos cars were truly distinctive, and somewhat visually pleasing, was Saab (Pre GM), and to a lesser extent Jaguar...
Today, the only manufacturer that's making cars that make you sit up and take notice, is Daimler Chrysler (300C, Charger, Prowler, PT Cruiser, Viper, etc..) BMW (The Bangle era; say what you want, but they're selling like hot cakes, so who was wrong, Bangle or you?) 2004 - 2005 was the first years (recently) BMW outsold Mercedes in the US, and Lexus. (Their redesigns are taking NO prisoners...)
Nissan 350Z and G35 coupe: (See Porsche 911)
I remember a magazine article many years ago that said, "Nissan couldn't build a timeless design, if someone left a disassembled Porsche 911 in their design lab)
Somebody must read that article aside from me... (The 350 & G35 are both noce though, and, timeless...) |
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