| cycler15 |
I'm thinking about trading in my MDX and getting a Toyota Prius. I don't really use the MDX for it's SUV capabilities anymore. I just don't have the time to go camping and snowboarding like I used to. And since I drive around 15,000 miles per year, I spend roughly $2,600 a year on gas (my commute is mainly city driving). With the Prius I would spend around $900. That's a savings of $1,700 a year. All this is calculated at gas being $3 per gallon. But the big kicker is the tax credit (not a deduction) of $3,150 that the new Hybrid Tax Car Credit allows this year.
This move would be purely on a financial basis to save money. I don't really utilize the full cargo space since I am single and I don't drive to the mountains anymore.
I have a 2004 MDX Touring with 44,000 miles that is in excellent condition. I figure I can get a trade in value of around $24,000. The Prius with Navi is $28,000. So I figure with the tax credit and gas savings, I'll have made up the difference in 1-2 years.
Does anyone here own a Prius? I've ridden in one and they are much nicer than I initially thought.
Any thoughts? |
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| cycler15 |
quote:
Originally posted by phins2rt
cycler,
Check out vicpai's post on this page. It may give you a different point of view. Then again, it may not...:D
http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/show...5&pagenumber=27
That's a great article. But it compares the gas saving of a Prius compared to a Corolla. There is no way I'm trading in my MDX for a Corolla... so that comparison doesn't apply to me. The only car I would trade my MDX for right now is a Prius.
Plus you can drive the Prius in the carpool lane. Right now in CA you can only drive in the carpool lane with 3 hybrids... Prius, Civic, and Insight. |
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| SRSEN1999 |
| Getting a Toyota Prius is a waste of money. |
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| cycler15 |
quote:
Originally posted by SRSEN1999
Getting a Toyota Prius is a waste of money.
LOL. I love your great logic and reasoning. Thanks. |
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| dj-mdx2 |
Have you considered the Civic? It's gotten decent reviews, and looks a lot better than the Prius, IMHO, if that matters to you.
Not that I'm knocking the Prius, but didn't Toyota recall several thousand of them lately due to a software glitch? |
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| socalJD |
Cycler, I don't know about the Prius - just not 'feelin' it.
To me, hybrid technology is still in it's infancy - not enough conclusive data to make a long term decision. We don't know the long term issues regarding reliability, maintenance, major repairs, etc. Unlike most, I can't jump on the bandwagon on blind faith, I need actual proof or real world experience. What if the battery pack fails just outside of warranty - what it the cost to replace ? Does battery performance fade with time (like cell phones, watches, etc) ? Do weather extremes affect performance (ie snow in Mammoth or desert in vegas) ? Too many unkowns, too many variables for me. I understand the cost analysis pencils out, and CA does offer a lot of breaks/perks, but I don't like being the guinea pig for the auto industry. Maybe you can PM/email Excel, I know he's really into hyper-mileage and uses an Insight for his daily commute, so he can give a real world feel for owning a hybrid. Good luck . . . |
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| cycler15 |
quote:
Originally posted by dj-mdx2
Have you considered the Civic? It's gotten decent reviews, and looks a lot better than the Prius, IMHO, if that matters to you.
Not that I'm knocking the Prius, but didn't Toyota recall several thousand of them lately due to a software glitch?
I like the fact that the Prius is a hatchback and you can fold down the rear seats for more cargo space. You can't do that with the Civic.
I actually like the Prius styling... it's grown on me. |
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| cycler15 |
quote:
Originally posted by socalJD
Cycler, I don't know about the Prius - just not 'feelin' it.
To me, hybrid technology is still in it's infancy - not enough conclusive data to make a long term decision. We don't know the long term issues regarding reliability, maintenance, major repairs, etc. Unlike most, I can't jump on the bandwagon on blind faith, I need actual proof or real world experience. What if the battery pack fails just outside of warranty - what it the cost to replace ? Does battery performance fade with time (like cell phones, watches, etc) ? Do weather extremes affect performance (ie snow in Mammoth or desert in vegas) ? Too many unkowns, too many variables for me. I understand the cost analysis pencils out, and CA does offer a lot of breaks/perks, but I don't like being the guinea pig for the auto industry. Maybe you can PM/email Excel, I know he's really into hyper-mileage and uses an Insight for his daily commute, so he can give a real world feel for owning a hybrid. Good luck . . .
I understand your concerns, but it's not like I'm buying a first year model. The Prius has been out since 2001 and the 2nd gen Prius came out in 2004. So they've had 5 years to work on refining it. As to the battery pack issue... I figure I'll keep it for around 5 years and just trade in for another car before my extended warranty expires. |
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| jhue |
We've got a 2004 and 2005 Prius, in addition to two SUVs (including the MDX) and a full-size truck.
While the fuel savings and tax credits may make the Prius cheaper to operate than other new cars, a new car is almost never the best choice if all you care about is lowest TCO. I'd buy a few-year-old Honda Civic HX if I wanted lowest TCO.
The Prius is a great car if you like having all the latest high-tech gadgets, or are especially environmentally conscious. But if you're not in one of those two groups, the reasons for its appeal will probably escape you. While it's a fun in-town runabout, its acceleration, handling, and comfort are sufficiently low that it won't appeal to most car enthusiasts.
I like the Prius for several reasons, among them the minimal environmental footprint it has compared to just about any other new vehicle for sale. There are a number of unique features that it has to extract the maximum out of every gallon of fuel, while minimizing the amount it pollutes. Let me give you an example. It annoys the hell out of me to be stuck at a red light in my MDX and watch the average MPG drop the longer I'm stopped (especially right after resetting the trip computer). Then I pay another penalty in accelerating back up to speed. These things don't annoy me in the Prius. The A/C is powered by an electric compressor, and the engine shuts off at red lights. So I can be sitting there at a red light in 100 degree heat with the A/C blasting, burning zero fuel. Then in accelerating back up to speed, I'm using the low-end torque of the electric motor, which is powered by the battery which was recharged by harnessing the normally wasted kinetic energy of the moving vehicle. It has a number of clever design features like this and they are one of the main reasons the car appealed to me. |
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| jhue |
quote:
Originally posted by socalJD
We don't know the long term issues regarding reliability, maintenance, major repairs, etc.
The first generation Prius was released in Japan in 1997. They've been sold in the US since 2001. There are Prius web forums just like this one where owners share their experiences. Check them out for yourself if you want to know how Priuses hold up in the long-term.
There are several third generation (2004+) Priuses being used as taxis 24x7 in Vancouver, BC. The one with the highest mileage (240,000 miles) was bought back by Toyota because they wanted study it. At the time it left service the only non-maintenance items replaced were the front struts, and an A/C sensor. The taxi driver has a blog here:
http://www.hybridcars.com/blogs/taxi/batteries
A recent entry:
quote:
Just a quick update on hybrid battery life expectance....the 2004 Prius being used as a Yellow Cab 15 in Vancouver B.C. currently has 415,000 kms (240,000 miles approx.) with no battery replacement issues... the taxi will be going back to Japan shortly to be disassembled as was the 2001 in exchange for a new Prius.,,,
Andrew Grant
June 16, 2006
If you register a Prius in CA, you automatically get a 10-year, 150,000 warranty on the hybrid drivetrain (including battery) as part of CA's emission requirements. |
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| cycler15 |
quote:
Originally posted by jhue
While it's a fun in-town runabout, its acceleration, handling, and comfort are sufficiently low that it won't appeal to most car enthusiasts.
Thanks for your reply jhue... when you say that the comfort is low, what exactly do you mean? I already know that acceleration and handling won't compare to the MDX, but are you referring to the driver's seat comfort? I know it doesn't have lumbar support, have you found that to be an issue? |
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| socalJD |
quote:
Originally posted by jhue
. . .There are Prius web forums just like this one where owners share their experiences. Check them out for yourself if you want to know how Priuses hold up in the long-term. . .
Nope, not necessary - I will bow to your expertise on this. I will also bow out of the thread now - was just giving MHOs. I'll let you guys talk 'green' now. As for me, I'm heading in the other direction - I'm looking at an imminent purchase of an IS250 or 325i . . . :D |
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| jimbo858 |
quote:
Originally posted by jhue
...I like the Prius for several reasons, among them the minimal environmental footprint it has compared to just about any other new vehicle for sale...
just curious... is it REALLY that good for the environment? I mean what will they do with all of the hybrid batteries? can they reclaim a good percentage of the material from the batteries to really make them safe for the environment?
again... not knocking them. I really like the Prius and most especially that Prius+ I saw in an article.... |
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| jhue |
quote:
Originally posted by cycler15
Thanks for your reply jhue... when you say that the comfort is low, what exactly do you mean? I already know that acceleration and handling won't compare to the MDX, but are you referring to the driver's seat comfort?
The seat doesn't bother me that much but others can't sit in it for more than an hour without discomfort. You probably already know it's kind of flat and not very supportive.
Actually, the thing that surprised me the most is that it isn't very quiet. It doesn't have a lot of insulation, so it gets a surprising amount of road noise. Not a problem in the city, but tiresome on long trips. And by the way, the OEM Goodyear Integrity tires are truly a POS. The slightest bit of rain and I'm spinning my front tires halfway across every intersection leaving the signal, until the traction control kicks in (and cuts power completely - it's overly sensitive).
Leather interior was not available in 2004 or 2005, but is available in 2006. I'm still debating whether to get aftermarket leather installed.
One of the coolest features of the car is the smart-key system. You never have to take the key out of your pocket. The car senses the key and you can unlock and start the car as long as the car detects the key in the right place (for instance, it won't unlock the doors when it senses a hand on the outside door handle unless the key is outside the car). To start, the car has to detect the key close to the driver's seat (throw the key in the back seat and the car won't start).
Check out the forum at priuschat.com - you can get a lot of answers to your questions there. |
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| jhue |
quote:
Originally posted by jimbo858
just curious... is it REALLY that good for the environment?
A Prius produces so little pollution that in Los Angeles, the exhaust is actually cleaner (less HC, CO, NOX) than the air it ingests. 'Course, it's dumping out CO2 while it's doing that.
quote:
I mean what will they do with all of the hybrid batteries? can they reclaim a good percentage of the material from the batteries to really make them safe for the environment?
If you believe Toyota's press releases, they can:
quote:
Is there a recycling plan in place for nickel-metal hydride batteries?
Toyota has a comprehensive battery recycling program in place and has been recycling nickel-metal hydride batteries since the RAV4 Electric Vehicle was introduced in 1998. Every part of the battery, from the precious metals to the plastic, plates, steel case and the wiring, is recycled. To ensure that batteries come back to Toyota, each battery has a phone number on it to call for recycling information and dealers are paid a $200 "bounty" for each battery.
I hope it's true, if not, please let me continue to live in ignorant treehugging bliss. |
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| jhue |
| Oh yeah, on that tax credit - if you have to pay taxes based on AMT, you don't get the credit. If you're not sure about your situation, check with your accountant. |
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| jimbo858 |
quote:
Originally posted by jhue
...I hope it's true, if not, please let me continue to live in ignorant treehugging bliss.
hahahaha.... :p
you and me both! Hell even if it weren't true... The fact that it's able to run the A/C without the engine makes that car sooooo.... worth it. |
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| cycler15 |
Well, I decided to hold off on buying a hybrid vehicle. Maybe I'll wait until the next generation models come out in 2-3 years.
But... as I was trying to make my decision, I sold my parents on the idea of the Prius. So my Dad traded in his old Toyota Sienna yesterday for a Prius with Navi. I'll have to drive it one day and see how the ride is.
The only thing that sucks is that there is a 75,000 sticker limit for using the carpool lane with hybrids (Prius, Civic, Insight) in California. And right now they have issued around 70,000 stickers. So if you have to buy a hybrid within the next few weeks if you want a chance to get the carpool sticker. Looks like I'll be out of luck in the future if I do decide to buy a hybrid. |
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| jhue |
Well, if you can wait until 2008, maybe you can buy the next-gen Prius that is rumored to get 94mpg city. It should be obvious that the only way they can achieve that is to have much more battery capacity, and end the city cycle with a much lower charge than it had at the beginning. Being able to discharge the battery during the EPA tests without having to recharge it is like getting a few ounces of extra gasoline to use that doesn't count against your fuel consumption.
Oh, I read an article in a magazine article that calculated the cost per mile of driving a Prius at $0.08 per mile. Most cars are in the $0.35 to $0.50 range. The cost was low because of low fuel costs and very little depreciation. However, that doesn't mean it has lower TCO than a used Honda Civic, because that doesn't include opportunity costs. There is lost investment income you could have had by investing the money saved by purchasing the used Civic instead of the new Prius. Even with a conservative rate of return (say 6% x $20,000 difference in price) it comes out to $1200 a year, or an extra $0.10 per mile @ 12,000 miles per year. |
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