| mdxforever |
I know both have merged but the presario line is still active. Probably reminiscent of the merge. However, I am in the market for a $500(street price) laptop. Don't really need a strong one. I let my desktop do all the heavy lifting, and the ease and freedom and less cost of upgradability in the desktop just appeal to me. So...
I am looking at these two -
HP dv1710us @ $479
and
Compaq V5000Z @ $475
Ignore the performance/features/processing-power differences for now and just guide me as to which is a better brand/model strictly in terms of reliability. Which is more or less likely to give me maintenance/failure headaches ? |
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| andreseng |
| I believe you're comparing apples to apples. They are one in the same company now. |
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| mdxforever |
| well same as in the same management or ownership or support, but probably the factory, parts and assembly lines are different. |
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| JL_SS |
| Here is the CR general reliability chart - virtually no difference in repairs for HP and Compaq notebooks: |
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| nightguy |
Try to see if they have the same exact same components. Quite a few years ago, Gateway varied greatly in quality depending on the day they put it together. They constantly switched suppliers. For the same price, wouldn't you want a Sony monitor instead of brand X ?
Then again this is pretty cheap as far as laptops go. I wouldn't really worry about it. |
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| ArtW |
Hi MDXFOREVER,
Warranty and Service should be the same as it is through HP.
HP has been advertising "award winning customer service" from J.D. Powers.
ArtW |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by ArtW
Hi MDXFOREVER,
Warranty and Service should be the same as it is through HP.
HP has been advertising "award winning customer service" from J.D. Powers.
ArtW
I would agree, JD Powers, or not that the service should be the same. Whether the service is as good as JDPowers thinks, I have some reservations. Earlier Compaqs had more fallout before the merger.
Another thing is ease of service. Not a huge factor if you are under warranty. Although, the harder to service, the longer to get it back.
Dell is one the easiest to service. Example, they use 5 or 6 different assembly screw sizes, compared with many brands that use 10-15, even more.
If you go by the stats they are not always reliable, but most problems are 'early on'. In general, a solid laptop with nice features. Well designed machines if you plan to keep them a long time.
Sony, Toshiba, etc. are among the most difficult to service, but typically if you get a good one, they seem to last forever.
IBM, now Levono is good. Better models have a strengthened frame and other ruggedization features.
Whether you want to pay for that, or even need it, is another story.
This is not off the top of my head. I have a friend who has been repairing PC/laptops since the 70s. Both, on contract, and on his own, on a daily basis.
Most brand names are fine. Acer used to make more troublesome pcs but seem to have some good ones out there now. Just avoid their monitors, which generally don't have the best looking video.
With Apple, pay big time, but you do get good quality. |
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| zafer |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxforever
Which is more or less likely to give me maintenance/failure headaches ?
... for how long? 6 months? 12 Months? 5 years? Either should work decent for about a year or so, give or take, based on your daily usage. |
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| JL_SS |
| My $1000 Centrino Compaq is 2.5 years old and I've never had a problem with it. It gets used daily. They had an HP that was exactly the same except for the HP logo. The $2000 Toshiba it replaced was a piece of crap. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
My $1000 Centrino Compaq is 2.5 years old and I've never had a problem with it. It gets used daily. They had an HP that was exactly the same except for the HP logo. The $2000 Toshiba it replaced was a piece of crap.
And Toshiba provides a lot of parts for other laptops, including a good number of LCD panels including one's for Sony. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
And Toshiba provides a lot of parts for other laptops, including a good number of LCD panels including one's for Sony.
Actually the LCD was great, it was the cpu thermal management that was the problem. The CPU cooling was no where near adequate. Even Toshiba's supplied screensaver caused it to throttle the processor speed by half. Essentially it was sold as one processor speed, but in effect 99% of the time it was running at 1/2 to 1/4 of that due to inadequate cooling. I actually got Toshiba coporate to refund my money. I could have spent a lot less money to get the equivalent processor speed that was actually achieved by the Toshiba. The Dells at work and the replacement Compaq all ran at the advertised CPU speed even for heavy duty analysis applications. I doubt that I will ever buy another Toshiba laptop again. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
Actually the LCD was great, it was the cpu thermal management that was the problem. The CPU cooling was no where near adequate. Even Toshiba's supplied screensaver caused it to throttle the processor speed by half. Essentially it was sold as one processor speed, but in effect 99% of the time it was running at 1/2 to 1/4 of that due to inadequate cooling. I actually got Toshiba coporate to refund my money. I could have spent a lot less money to get the equivalent processor speed that was actually achieved by the Toshiba. The Dells at work and the replacement Compaq all ran at the advertised CPU speed even for heavy duty analysis applications. I doubt that I will ever buy another Toshiba laptop again.
You found out one of the best things about Toshiba, it is generally easier to get satisfaction out of their customer service than many.
They reimbursed me for a bad card on a TV some years ago, when the TV was 2 months out of warranty. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
You found out one of the best things about Toshiba, it is generally easier to get satisfaction out of their customer service than many.
They reimbursed me for a bad card on a TV some years ago, when the TV was 2 months out of warranty.
Actually it was incredibly painful. Toshiba CS told me that there was no way that they would ever refund my money. They stopped just short of saying FU. Their stance was that it was a laptop and it shouldn't perform like a desktop. My argument was that it should at least perform to it's advertised CPU speed most of the time - all my other laptops did. Ultimately it took a fraud complaint with the BBB to get my money back. The whole process took 6 months of many unpleasant phone calls. My Tosh laptop was actually at a Comp-USA repair depot when I got the call that Tosh/BBB would refund my money because I was also trying to lemon it with C-USA. I had to call them to send it back to me in order to send it to Tosh for the refund. The tech was amazed that I had gotten Tosh to refund my money - he said he had never seen them do that no matter how bad the problems was.
The best customer service I have experienced is with Dell. I buy my Dells through an employee purchase program and Dell provides excellent customer service to EPP buyers because they have the incentive of not upsetting their corporate customers. I went through 3 defective dell laptops before I bought the Compaq I referenced above. Dell took each one back with no questions and payed shipping each way. My last call for actual problem support went very well. I had a problem that I couldn't figure out (and if I can't figure it out, it is a tough problem) and they solved it - you get english speaking support with the EPP program too. |
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| carguy1234 |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
Actually it was incredibly painful. Toshiba CS told me that there was no way that they would ever refund my money. They stopped just short of saying FU. Their stance was that it was a laptop and it shouldn't perform like a desktop. My argument was that it should at least perform to it's advertised CPU speed most of the time - all my other laptops did. Ultimately it took a fraud complaint with the BBB to get my money back. The whole process took 6 months of many unpleasant phone calls. My Tosh laptop was actually at a Comp-USA repair depot when I got the call that Tosh/BBB would refund my money because I was also trying to lemon it with C-USA. I had to call them to send it back to me in order to send it to Tosh for the refund. The tech was amazed that I had gotten Tosh to refund my money - he said he had never seen them do that no matter how bad the problems was.
The best customer service I have experienced is with Dell. I buy my Dells through an employee purchase program and Dell provides excellent customer service to EPP buyers because they have the incentive of not upsetting their corporate customers. I went through 3 defective dell laptops before I bought the Compaq I referenced above. Dell took each one back with no questions and payed shipping each way. My last call for actual problem support went very well. I had a problem that I couldn't figure out (and if I can't figure it out, it is a tough problem) and they solved it - you get english speaking support with the EPP program too.
Wow - you must be one of the unluckiest people there is - a bunch of defective laptops, and didn't you lemon a couple cars in the last several years too? |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by carguy1234
Wow - you must be one of the unluckiest people there is - a bunch of defective laptops, and didn't you lemon a couple cars in the last several years too?
Uh ya, I'm trying to forget all that.....:D . I'm pretty much ecstatic when I buy something and don't have to return it. :4: |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
Actually it was incredibly painful. ..........
Dell took each one back with no questions and payed shipping each way. My last call for actual problem support went very well. I had a problem that I couldn't figure out (and if I can't figure it out, it is a tough problem) and they solved it - you get english speaking support with the EPP program too.
Sorry to hear about that, that does sound painful!
I generally get Dells myself. Things always seem to get resolved in the few cases I've ever had problems.
Although, I have a Sony laptop that has been doing great for over 3 years now. My wife takes it back and forth to work everyday now. I noted it had a Toshiba display when I went in to replace the backlight lamp for the panel. The screen would start flickering when you moved it, or tapped it. Not an uncommon problem on Sonys or several others.
Turns out it ony had a loose connection at the inverter.
Dell also subs a lot of work through Qual-X-Serv and they generally provide superior technicians for in or out of home repair. |
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| nightguy |
I'm glad to hear Dell's service is decent. My wife is going back to school and we need to get her a laptop in the next few days. The good news is that we'll get a "discount" either through school or her current employer. She's had a Latitude 610 at this job and at the end of her last job. Seems like a decent machine. I haven't compared it to what the school's recommended hardware is yet. Any thoughts on that series ?
She's kind of mentioned that she might like to look at Sony. I would only consider getting her one of the little ones. My in-laws have a Vaio that feels like a desktop. I'm sure it's larger than a mini Mac. That thing basically sits on their desk and had power issues before it was a year old. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by nightguy
I'm glad to hear Dell's service is decent. My wife is going back to school and we need to get her a laptop in the next few days. The good news is that we'll get a "discount" either through school or her current employer. She's had a Latitude 610 at this job and at the end of her last job. Seems like a decent machine. I haven't compared it to what the school's recommended hardware is yet. Any thoughts on that series ?
She's kind of mentioned that she might like to look at Sony. I would only consider getting her one of the little ones. My in-laws have a Vaio that feels like a desktop. I'm sure it's larger than a mini Mac. That thing basically sits on their desk and had power issues before it was a year old.
Funny thing is I had a power issue when my Dell 1900 Inspiron was only a week old.
That's when I met this great tech. He swapped the motherboard and had booted back up in under 30 minutes. Since then, it's been a dream.
Sonys tend to be expensive too. Especially the lightest ones. I think you made the right choice. I could not tell you off hand if that's the best series, but it has been around a while.
You can get great deals on their returned machines too. |
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| dipersp |
I work with all the service providers on a constant basis.
Let me start by saying MOST of them are sub-par to the old days. Everyone now has "gold/platinum" service, or "care packs." These essentially get you better/faster service. Why we have to pay for these, I'm not sure.
We use a lot of Dells for desktops and laptops. A few years ago, we had a string of Dell Inspiron laptops ALL go bad with defective drives. Dell replaced all the drives, but we lost a lot of time replacing and rebuilding them. More recently, we're seeing some desktop drives go.
We deal with HP for servers mainly (Better support than anyone else I feel.)
Unfort., EVERYONE has drive problems. They pick whoever is cheapest that day and that's it. Since the drive is about the only moving part in a PC, it'll be the one to break. Laptops travel, so they'll have more problems in general.
The Latitude line from Dell is best for laptops. As for HP/Compaq, the Presario line was always a "home" user line, while the Compaq systems were more "business." In Dell's world, this translates to slight better products, and speaking English instead of Indian for support.
Price-wise, I've seen Dell always cheapest. HP is a good middle of the road, and Thinkpad (Previous IBM, now Lenovo) were (And are holding on) as the best. |
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| ArtW |
Dell has indicated less than expected earnings for this quarter; their stock took a big hit yesterday. Don't be surprised if they move more of their support functions to India.
Both Dell and HP have decent laptops but its the constant reduction of cost of manufacturing and the trying to increase the margin that causes quality and reliability issues. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by ArtW
Dell has indicated less than expected earnings for this quarter; their stock took a big hit yesterday. Don't be surprised if they move more of their support functions to India.
Both Dell and HP have decent laptops but its the constant reduction of cost of manufacturing and the trying to increase the margin that causes quality and reliability issues.
We can only hope what goes offshore is phone/online support (not to say that's a good thing!) and not the quality going inside the product. |
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| deejay |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
My $1000 Centrino Compaq is 2.5 years old and I've never had a problem with it. It gets used daily. They had an HP that was exactly the same except for the HP logo. The $2000 Toshiba it replaced was a piece of crap.
i got my compaq at christmas and love it. no problems yet!@ |
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| ArtW |
Both Dell and HP laptops are manufactured overseas (China and Taiwan).
HP has made put a lot of effort in improving their customer support; besides phone contact, they have e-mail and on-line support.
Internally, HP employees are encouraged to be customer-centric and bring attention to any customer complaints they have heard of. |
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| carguy1234 |
quote:
Originally posted by ArtW
Both Dell and HP laptops are manufactured overseas (China and Taiwan).
Aren't all laptops manufactued overseas these days? I wasn't aware that any real volume production was still being done in the US, especially for laptops. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by carguy1234
Aren't all laptops manufactued overseas these days? I wasn't aware that any real volume production was still being done in the US, especially for laptops.
I know Dell does some final assembly and testing here. But you are right, for the most part laptops are built overseas.
There is good and bad built everywhere, including here.
It's all about quality control and how much companies will invest in it irregardless of plant locations. |
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| nightguy |
quote:
Originally posted by dipersp
I work with all the service providers on a constant basis.
Let me start by saying MOST of them are sub-par to the old days. Everyone now has "gold/platinum" service, or "care packs." These essentially get you better/faster service. Why we have to pay for these, I'm not sure.
Just used Dell gold chat (via the wife's company's account) to try to figure out why the touchpad or pointstick is going crazy. They were going to send me a new part or send a field tech for free but I suggested I try reinstalling the driver first. After I rebooted, Dell's chat system wouldn't let me resume the conversation with him. Ah well. I finally figured out how to make the internal pointer disable itself when an external mouse is plugged in.
We are now in the market for 2 computers. My desktop monitor after showing signs of weakness, finally died a couple days ago. No sense replacing it for a machine that's 6 1/2 years old running Windows 98. :rolleyes:
Are the cheap Dell desktops (with Celeron) any good ? Can I install my desktop wireless card with minimal hassle ? How about moving the hard drive ? I have a lot of stuff to transfer. |
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| ArtW |
Hi Nightguy,
Based on Dell's current situation, they will probably have some good deals soon. Check their website, for that matter check HP Shopping website.
As for your disk drive, you might have to get a IDE to USB converter kit. You will be able to transfer data from the old drive tio the new system. Then you can use the old drive as a back up drive.
ArtW |
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| dipersp |
Actually, Dell is in "END OF QUARTER" mode right now. Our pricing has been great.
If you guys want, I MIGHT be able to sell you guys some Dell for less than what you'll pay on their website.
It would have to be done through PayPal, as we don't accept credit cards, or we'd have to wait 2 weeks for a check to clear.
If nothing else, give me an idea of what you guys are interested in and I can get you some pricing to compare to what's on their website. Best thing to do is go through the consumer site, price out a system, send me the specs and price and we can work something out. |
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| nightguy |
We bought my wife a Vaio SZ-120 at Circuit City. It's close to a $2000 machine but the end of the year so we got it for $1200. She decided that size is a priority and at 4.1 lbs., this fits the bill. One of the few retail notebooks we found that not only has the Duo Processor but also XP Pro.
I decided I like it well enough to want one for myself. Unfortunately we seem to have bought the last one in the area. :(
Never thought I'd buy anything, let alone a PC at Circuit City but after our experience at Best Buy, I'm not shopping there again. It's amazing how one store lets you walk in and leave with your purchase within 5 minutes, the other wants to make sure you buy hundreds of dollars of worthless crap by giving you a tour of the entire computer department. :rolleyes: |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by nightguy
We bought my wife a Vaio SZ-120 at Circuit City. It's close to a $2000 machine but the end of the year so we got it for $1200. She decided that size is a priority and at 4.1 lbs., this fits the bill. One of the few retail notebooks we found that not only has the Duo Processor but also XP Pro.
I decided I like it well enough to want one for myself. Unfortunately we seem to have bought the last one in the area. :(
Never thought I'd buy anything, let alone a PC at Circuit City but after our experience at Best Buy, I'm not shopping there again. It's amazing how one store lets you walk in and leave with your purchase within 5 minutes, the other wants to make sure you buy hundreds of dollars of worthless crap by giving you a tour of the entire computer department. :rolleyes:
I've had similar experiences with CC. It can be a good place to pick up bargains time to time. Just rely on your own expertise not theirs, when making a decision on what to buy. :) |
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| one4gatr |
quote:
Originally posted by DaleB
I've had similar experiences with CC. It can be a good place to pick up bargains time to time. Just rely on your own expertise not theirs, when making a decision on what to buy. :)
I agree. But I will tell you one thing about CC that BB will NEVER get close to... their return policy. I have bought tons and tons of stuff from both places and beyond a shadow of a doubt CC kills BB in customer service.
I only buy small ticket items from BB anymore based upon my last computer purchase I made from them. The desktop PC crashed about a week after I bought it and I was told that because I didnt buy THEIR warranty that I had to ship the PC off at my expense to the manufacturer.
Every issue I had with anything from CC as long as it was within 30 days they have swapped it out for a new unit if they have it no questions asked. This even goes for a floor model TV I bought that failed within a week. Swapped out for a brand new unit in the box with no hassle and no extra charges.
I would highly recommend CC for any big ticket purchase even if you pay a couple of bucks more solely based upon their customer service. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by one4gatr
I agree. But I will tell you one thing about CC that BB will NEVER get close to... their return policy. I have bought tons and tons of stuff from both places and beyond a shadow of a doubt CC kills BB in customer service.
I only buy small ticket items from BB anymore based upon my last computer purchase I made from them. The desktop PC crashed about a week after I bought it and I was told that because I didnt buy THEIR warranty that I had to ship the PC off at my expense to the manufacturer.
Every issue I had with anything from CC as long as it was within 30 days they have swapped it out for a new unit if they have it no questions asked. This even goes for a floor model TV I bought that failed within a week. Swapped out for a brand new unit in the box with no hassle and no extra charges.
I would highly recommend CC for any big ticket purchase even if you pay a couple of bucks more solely based upon their customer service.
I've had the same experience around here. If you need to return/exchange something at CC there is usually very little hassle if you are within the allowed return times. BB has a long line to stand in for someone to verify the problem. They then try to convince you it's not a problem. If they can't then they have you go stand in another long line to get your money back. It usually takes me no more 5 minutes in CC but it can take well over 1/2 hour at BB depending on the number of people in line. |
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| DaleB |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
I've had the same experience around here. If you need to return/exchange something at CC there is usually very little hassle if you are within the allowed return times. BB has a long line to stand in for someone to verify the problem. They then try to convince you it's not a problem. If they can't then they have you go stand in another long line to get your money back. It usually takes me no more 5 minutes in CC but it can take well over 1/2 hour at BB depending on the number of people in line.
They are also good for internet pre-orders. They've always had stuff ready behind the counter for me when I go the store.
Sears and CompUSA I have had success with the same.
But BB..forget it! Screwed me twice.. they always end up going to the back room to get the merchandise and it takes them longer than for me to pick it off the shelf myself.
I don't even step into a BB anymore, except maybe to see the latest Home Theater stuff at Magnolia. |
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