| Mr. Mom |
| Thinking of getting back into the digital SLR, full body and have come up with these two. I don’t have any lenses for either so that isn’t in the equation. Anybody have one of these? |
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| wmquan |
I presume you've read their reviews on www.dpreview.com ? They seem to be the most thorough by far, though the author has been accused of being biased toward Nikon.
Wish I had to budget to buy either. They both look great. |
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| jrtiger |
Mr. Mom
I am like you and have been reading and looking and testing and reading… I also do not have either company’s lens so I could choose either one. I was also looking at the Nikon D70s. I personally think all three are great cameras and you would probably be happy with any of them. I wear glasses and between the D70s and the EOS 30D I liked the view finder better on the 30D. I liked the grip and handling of the D70s and the D-200 better than the 30D. A friend of mine has been using the D-200 and loves it. He also has a couple of Cannon’s and he also likes them. I think he gives the nod to the Nikon for overall performance and usability and one of the basic laws of the universe is it also costs more. He also pointed me to the Nikon site and they are going to make an announcement on a new digital SLR on, I think August 9th. Rumors have it that it will probably fall between the D70s and the D-200 and will be a 10.2 M pixel. So in light of that information I decided to hold off and see the announcement about this new camera. I do not know when it will be released so if it is months or a year away I will probably have to revisit the D-200 and the EOS 30D. As wmquan stated there is a good review at dpreview and also check out Steve’s Digicams. |
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| jhue |
quote:
Originally posted by jrtiger
He also pointed me to the Nikon site and they are going to make an announcement on a new digital SLR on, I think August 9th. Rumors have it that it will probably fall between the D70s and the D-200 and will be a 10.2 M pixel.
It's already been confirmed that the new camera will be the D80 and will be 10.2 megapixel.
http://www.photim.net/nci/image.php3?Code=20060706071502MIKL&O=149
http://www.photim.net/nci/image.php3?Code=20060706071502MIKL&O=150
Unless you're just a casual snapshooter and just going to buy a single wide-angle to short telephoto zoom (in which case I wonder why you're buying an SLR), you're buying into a whole system, not just a single body. So check out the lenses and strobes that you'd be buying too. If you shoot sports, you'll probably find that you'll want more than one body, so you might want to look up or down one model too to see what your options are for a second body. |
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| SilveradoMDX |
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Mom
Thinking of getting back into the digital SLR, full body and have come up with these two. I don’t have any lenses for either so that isn’t in the equation. Anybody have one of these?
NIKON and also get Tiffen filter.
I use the Tiffen filter, I am amaze of all my pictures. |
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| Mr. Mom |
Thanks for the info on the upcoming Nikon D80, I didn’t know about it. Sounds like Nikon is going after Canons Rebel market slot with a better camera.
I knew the Nikon D200 had a higher review rating by the pros, just wanted some average opinions too. Canon lenses are by far the choice of sport people but that is not what I need one for. The new 18-200 Nikkor lens sounds like a winner and it looks like they are finally not back ordered now. I think by next year there will be a full- frame SLR in this price range and so it’s hard to “time” when to lay out this much coin. Guess I’ll check out the D80 before buying. |
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| wmquan |
I was wondering if some members here had first-hand experience with those cameras too. You can read and read all the reviews, but a lot of folks here have unique insights.
I wonder what the price point of the new D80 is going to be? Nikon tends to price above Canon (look at how the D70 was a couple hundred more expensive than the Digital Rebel for a while). Do they drop the D70 and just have the D50 and D80 below the D200? If they keep the D70, does that mean the D80 will be about, say, $1,200?
Photokina will be in September, IIRC. I'll bet that Canon will announce a new Digital Rebel to replace the 350XT soon. So that'll help counter the D80.
Canon kind of hamstrung themselves by not making big improvements to the 30D. It's just a small increment above the 20D. That would suggest they can't make big improvements to the 350XT without cannibalizing 30D sales. They'll probably continue to follow the philosophy of "disabling" the 3xx by just omitting some features in software -- an approach that a lot of photographers criticize.
Canon does seem to have a leg up on Nikon in how quickly it cycles models and its low-noise sensors. But the Nikons do seem to continue to be better than the Canons in terms of build quality, "feel," and usability. E.g. when I've handled a D70 and a 350XT, the D70 just seems to feel more substantial -- and it's not just the D70 being bigger and heavier.
However, I'd still buy a 350XT over a D70s because I think the latter gives up too much (low noise, slightly lower resolution though 6 to 8 megapixels isn't a big jump). Also because my hands are smaller so the 350XT is easier for me to handle.
Ultimately, though, the best shots won't come down to whether it's a Canon or Nikon, it'll come down to the photographer's skills (and I'm barely past snapshots). |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Mom
... I think by next year there will be a full- frame SLR in this price range and so it’s hard to “time” when to lay out this much coin.
I think you've hit the nail on the head. Digital SLR"s are still evolving and it'll be some time before the "plateau." As it is, the debate rages over full-frame vs. cropped, though the solution there seems to be full-frame that works well with most lenses (if that's even possible).
Thus the already-mentioned importance of buying into a brand -- Canon vs. Nikon. I would guess that if one of your priorities is an affordable full-frame SLR, that Canon will likely get there first. Maybe that should steer your brand decision?
For me (and I'm not looking to buy in this price range), I really hate noise in low-light photos, so I'd lean toward the Canon and their excellent sensors. Though the D50 does do an excellent job with noise, the D200 isn't competitive with the Canons in this specific area (though obviously the Nikon does a lot of other things better ... e.g. it seems Canons have a lot of issues with automatic white balance). |
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| Mocking-DX |
you can't go wrong with either Nikon or Canon
if you like shooting sports then go with Canon as you mentioned they have nice lens line up
if not, you can go either way
for portraits i was gonna suggest canon 5d for its full frame feature but i would spend on an entry SLR and get a nice lens
I have canon digital SLRs 300D, 20D and 1DMkII and some "L" lenses(white ones)
the 30D is the same as my 20D only a bigger LCD and few minor upgrades. But I like the solid feel and high ISO performance.
If you shoot low light, Canons perform better with handling noise.
you can shoot at 1600 ISO and still get a very useable picture
if you plan on going full frame down the road, stick with canon EF lenses because the EF-S lenses don't fit on full frames
overall i'm satisfied with the canon lineup especially the 1DMkII combined with 70-200 IS f2.8 and 50 f1.4
good luck |
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| Mr. Mom |
"if you plan on going full frame down the road, stick with canon EF lenses because the EF-S lenses don't fit on full frames"
An excellent point, thanks. |
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| jhue |
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Mom
Canon lenses are by far the choice of sport people but that is not what I need one for.
Most of those pros have been shooting with Canon equipment and purchased those lenses long before Canon made their first digital SLR. When I was shooting 35mm, Canon's autofocus was far better than Nikon's, and their USM focusing motors on their lenses were much faster as well. Nikon has caught up a lot since then, but since the majority of sports photographers were shooting Canon before with 35mm, they continue to do so with digital (because their investment was in the glass, not in the camera bodies).
quote:
The new 18-200 Nikkor lens sounds like a winner and it looks like they are finally not back ordered now.
I have one of those - and paid a premium to get it in time for the Toronto GP a few weeks ago. Now that I've had it for a while, I think I would have been better off buying a second body instead. That cheap, lightweight 55-200mm Nikon lens is surprisingly good, and I'm not all that impressed with the 18-200mm at over 5x the cost (I have not experiemented with turning off VR to see how much that is helping). What I did was sell my 18-70mm and 55-200mm on Ebay and bought the 18-200mm. In hindsight, I think to cover the 18-200mm (27-300mm) range, I should have just bought another D70 and kept the two cheaper zooms that I had. Of course, unless you shoot sports, the idea of carrying around two bodies probably isn't too appealing.
Picture taken with $160 Nikon 55-200mm (surprisingly sharp, IMHO):
http://img206.imageshack.us/img206/1638/dsc0072fi5.jpg
Picture taken with $800 Nikon 18-200mm (not so good). My D70 did just die recently though, so failing electronics could be responsible for some of the poor quality. I took pictures of static objects with this lens and they were surprisingly soft.
http://img55.imageshack.us/img55/239/dsc0348sai2.jpg |
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| Mr. Mom |
This guy seems to like the 18-200 Nikkor. I guess he feels the AF is slow on your 55-200. http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/55200.htm although your pictures look fine to me and those GP cars are fast!!
Just curious, will you be replacing the D70 with???? |
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| jhue |
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Mom
This guy seems to like the 18-200 Nikkor. I guess he feels the AF is slow on your 55-200. http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/55200.htm although your pictures look fine to me and those GP cars are fast!!
Like I said, I'm not 100% sure my camera was working properly in Toronto (it is now flashing "Err" and the shutter is halfway locked up). Also, I was on a photographer's stand in Long Beach and trackside in Toronto, so that puts much different demands on the autofocus. After I get my camera repaired I'm going to borrow some Nikon bodies and lenses from a co-worker and really figure out how good my 18-200mm is. I got rid of all my other lenses after reading how the 18-200 could replace them all, so now I have nothing to compare it against.
quote:
Just curious, will you be replacing the D70 with????
It's still under warranty so I'm going to have Nikon fix it. I'd buy a D80 if I was shopping today. $1500 for a body is hard for me to justify given that I might make it to three races a year and have about 15 other hobbies that require equally or more expensive gear. |
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| paulp |
I got the D200 since early February and have been very satisfied. I have waited for a long time for this camera. The reason is that I have been a Nikonian since the 80's and have some good lens. This camera is compatible with old manual lens.
If you are an avid photographer, both D200 and 30D are good choices. Otherwise, Rebel 350, future D80/90 (?) and Sony Alpha100 are also good options.Remember, these are not full frame sensors.
What ever your choice is, considering the future option for your lens. I stay away from the "digital only" lens since you can not use it with full frame camera (like Canon 5d).
Just my $.02 |
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| Mocking-DX |
and don't rush building your lens arsenal unless money is no object
remember you camera is also limited by the quality of your lens you use
better or pro quality lenses hold their value exceedingly well if you ever decide to sell them later on
last year I bought a used canon 24-70L f2.8 for $900 and used it for a year. Sold it back on e bay for the same price
in my opinion, a lens trying to cover a wide range of focal length gives too much on the picture quality, but having zooms are so convenient and less prone to sensor dust compared to prime lenses
i was tempted by canons 70-300mm for it's good range but i'm glad i bought my 70-200L IS f2.8-very versatile and sharp.
a sample of 70-200mm, with skin softening done except the eyes
http://abesphotos.smugmug.com/photos/54807668-L.jpg
an expensive body can depreciate almost half the price in a year due to yearly upgrades by the manufacturer.
i wish i was able to sell my 300D and 20D in their prime and bought the full frame 5D as a back up. But then having a1.6 crop body like the 20/30D is like having a built in free 1.6 teleconverter for the bird or long shots i need at times
i advise going to photo forum also like fred miranda. you can learn a lot from co photographer |
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| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Mom
"Wonder what Canon will introduce next."
Well......
http://www.steves-digicams.com/pr/c...ebelxti_pr.html
Yep, you knew that Canon would have an answer by Photkina.
Imaging Resource has a decent enough preview:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/XTI/XTIA.HTM
If Canon's 10mp CMOS sensor delivers low noise at a slightly higher resolution, it's a nice evolution from the 350D.
Definitely a lower price point than the D80, though the D80 seems like a step up in seriousness (build quality, ergonomics, features).
The Canon kit lens is the same as the 350D, and it's not a great lens. While the D80's kit will be $400 more, its package lens looks good on paper.
I guess Canon has to next introduce a replacement for the 30D (which hasn't even been around too long).
I have to say that when I handled a EOS 350D, a D70s, and a D50 at the store, I was struck with how much sturdier both Nikons felt. I don't think it was just the lighter weight of the 350D. The Nikons' plastics felt sturdier and more rigid, and the grips were more solid.
However, I have smaller hands so I felt I could hold the Canon easier. But I could feel how the Nikon grip was superior for those with larger hands. |
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| wmquan |
Dpreview.com has posted their preview of the EOS 400D:
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos400d/
I can see where Phil Askey is going with this. The 10-megapixel D80 is what he'll use to compare the 10-megapixel EOS 400D to. The ergonomics and build quality of the 400D will pale in comparison to the D80.
Though of course the 400D will list at $799 (body only) and $899 (with kit lens) and the D80 at $999 (body only) and $1,299 (with kit lens, which looks on paper to be a great lens).
One thing I am disappointed about is the EOS 400D's lack of spot metering. I've had a number of photos shot with sunglight/shade contrasts on the subject itself. Spot metering seems to be simpler than trying to guess at EV. |
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| wmquan |
DPReview.com has posted its long-awaited Nikon D80 review:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikond80/
Obviously, the author likes the camera a great deal.
His review includes comparisons with the Canon EOS 400D XTI, whose full review isn't out yet on his system.
Not surprisingly, he thinks the D80 wins as a "photographer's camera" because of ergonomics, handling, and feature set.
Canon still seems to win in the noise department, though the Nikon has improved.
I was disappointed that he didn't spend time comparing the D80 with the D200. Obviously they have some significant feature differences but it would have been nice to see direct comparisons of the image quality.
And while most photographers in this space are interested in the lens system, the kit lens was not available yet so he has no comments on it. This other review was actually not very positive on the kit lens:
http://www.dcresource.com/reviews/n...iew/index.shtml |
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