| BellTeck |
The media guy called me back and he said he is waiting for a call from the DPSM ( district parts sales manager) to call him back and then he said he will call me.
I have the feeling that this guy is going to go inspect the truck and let him know whats going on which is fine with me.
I talked to the dealer today and they said that the truck is in the body shop getting the front nose put on and that he wants to try some things when it gets back like adjusting the motor mount and flushing the transmission .. they are waiting for Acura's tech line to call them back on what to do. I told the guy that a transmission with 5K on it should not need flushing and that I think a motor mount out of position would cause more problems then a transmission.
So here I am again waiting for a phonecall tomorrow. I am Still not getting my hopes up and im ready to take this case to court if thats what it takes.
Replies:
GHM - This guy's title is American Honda Motors Media Relations. I did not ask him where he heard of my case, I was more interested in hearing what he had to say about the truck.
BarryH - I know how big companies work also .. and I work for one myself. Its a slow process .. like making a U turn in an oceanliner. I feel 2 months is ample time for this situation especially being a brand new automobile. I dont know how they work .. but "I" work for the customer and I am empowered to do what it takes for that customer.
Tdnone - My first dealer was terrible .. this one is much better to deal with ( although im not thrilled that they took my truck 4 wheeling in the field behind the dealership ) I feel that at this time its more up to the DPSM and the Corporate people as they know I have a case in process right now and with the circumstanses, its not looking good for them.
Thanks tex and robyjo for your support, it is much appreciated !!
TECK! |
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| AtlantaMDX |
| So Teck, any news? It's almost 5:30! |
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| BellTeck |
ATL ,
See Previous Post |
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| AtlantaMDX |
| Man, reply to a post and get up to get a coke, and WHAM! Teck had already posted a response.... Sorry to hear you'll have to wait yet another day. But atleast it seems some progress may be being made. Best of Luck! |
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| BellTeck |
MDX ,
Thanks buddy .. My wife was just up in duluth and she said it was very nice. We were debating on relocating to Atlanta and still may do so one of these days. I just want to stay on the outskirts of Atlanta because I spent 3 months up there for work.
TECK ! |
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| AtlantaMDX |
| So that's who the new lady was! :D Just kidding... If you guys ever do move up here, definately let us know. |
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| NaNaLi |
Hey Bell,
Ya' hear anything from the corporate guy? Your leaving me hanging here. This is better than Soap shows. Can you believe this, I'm in Hawaii on vacation and I'm wating for any word from you... Let us know.
Thanks :( |
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| BellTeck |
MDX - Will do !!
NaNaLi - Waka Waka Waya - Hey I wanna Lay ya ( no disrespect - just joking )
Sorry , I stole that from waynes world but you can use it too. :p
I will let everyone know as soon as I do unless they slap me with a gagger. But im sure you'll know by the reaction what it will be.
Keep your fingers crossed for me.
TECK! |
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| AtlantaMDX |
quote:
Originally posted by NaNaLi
... I'm in Hawaii on vacation and I'm wating for any word from you... Let us know.
Thanks :(
NaNaLi,
You might want to check out this thread: http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/show...28261#post28261
They talk about a road in Hawaii that you might want to check out. |
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| BellTeck |
I want to thank everyone for:
1) reading my posts
2) responding to my posts and
3) for giving ideas and personal thoughts
I got the call that I wanted to hear today. The media guy called me back and told me he talked to the district guy who was unaware of the problems I have been encountering and basically to sum it all up... He told me to go and have a nice weekend and there will be someone from the coordination department calling me early next week to make some arrangements. He didnt say refund/replace yet but I have the feeling that a nice/satisfying offer will be made. I have to let it sink in and still dont know how to take that but im pleased its finally moving to the betterside as I didnt think it could get any worse. Again thank you all, I have to go take my rental back because it has problems but im used to doing this LOL!!
More updates to follow, I hope everyone has a great holiday weekend!!!
TECK! |
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| ghm2112 |
TECK:
CONGRATS (I hope)!
Hopefully Acura will do you right (and maybe even give you that warm and fuzzy feeling):D
YOU have a great holiday w'end.
BTW, just out of curiosity, if they offered you a choice between a new rig or some sort of financial buy-out, which way would you go?
Happy Trails |
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| Robyjo |
Great news, Teck...
It might be hard to resist a pretty good offer, but make sure you get compensated for your pain...you deserve it--don't forget that!!
Happy Labor Day,
Rob |
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| TheWorm |
I hope the news is good for you on Monday. Thanks again for the updates.
If they agree w/robyjo on compensating you for your pain, I'd like to suggest that the rest of us also get compensated for "feeling your pain". A weeping mirror fix would be nice. |
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| AtlantaMDX |
| I doubt cash is a real option unless Teck says he doesn't want another Acura, period. More likely, they'll offer a new MDX (or other Acura) with all the bells and whistles, and free extended warranty, or service for 2 years, or something along those lines. |
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| BellTeck |
We'll see what the " Offer " will be this week. Most likely on Tuesday because its a holiday weekend.
It would be nice to get an offer of a White 2002 touring Nav with my choice of 5 accessories and 2 years extended warranty with free maintenance for 2 years. Ya think that's asking too much for all the B.S. I went through??
I doubt they will offer a refund up front, im sure they will push for a replacement because they would really lose out with that. The above mentioned would be nice and it would not cost them as much because all that I would be getting different from mine would be the Nav and accessories. The warranty and maintenance does not cost them much at all.
Im not sure how to put an " amount " to all the crap I went through but if I added up what I make in an hour and as much time I put into the whole situation plus the postage, cell phone calls, Toll, Gas, Milage, printer paper and toner, and long distance calls - im sure it would be above 5K easy.
What do you all think would be fair to ask for if you were in this situation?
I do know that i will NOT pay for 1 mile over 3500 on the 5800 that the truck has on it because most of that was to and from the dealer.
TECK! |
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| BellTeck |
ALSO ......
For the record
I went to the rental car place to get a car that I can trust to take up to Orlando and they had a brand new Chevy Malibu with 300 miles on it over at the Acura Dealership that they needed to pick up. I told them that would be fine and to drive me over to pick it up. We got to the dealership and I wanted to get some things out of my truck so I asked the service rep where the truck was. He said right around back and he grabbed the keys. I drove the rental car back to the MDX and started to unload it all into the rental car.
I asked if the rep had been by to inspect it yet and he said no and that the rep was to call someone else and do something. Anyway, he told me that they havent had that much trouble with the MDX and that mine was the first to have that many problems. I told him what the Media guy said and he was glad to hear that it may be replaced and told me to leave any accessories on it and that they would bill acura to switch them over ( IE: Side steps, sunroof visor, front mask, rear mud flaps, cargo mat )
I looked at the truck and there was NOTHING done to it. It had NOT been to the body shop like my rep told me it was the day before, in fact it had sat there the entire time. I finished with my truck and was pulling out of the lot and I looked at him and said " Hey .. you can take it out into the field now if you want to " he laughed at me and shook his head as I drove away.
TECK! |
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| BellTeck |
Were going to see the mouse -
Have a great weekend all !!!
TECK ! |
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| BarryH |
I can give you an example of what Acura has done in the past. A guy with a TL-S that had 5K miles on it left the car at the dealer for service. A short in a sensor under the dash started a fire while the car was at the dealership that was hot enough to blow both airbags. The fire department came and doused the car with water causing it to be totaled. The same week, Acura gave the guy a new car and instructed the dealer to be creative with the financing so the guy saved about $2K over his original deal.
Your situation is a little different because of the number of trips you had to make to the dealership that caused you to miss time at work, etc. Acura will end up paying off your current note and you'll sign a new contract for the new vehicle. They'll probably do something similar for you in terms of the financing. You may get a complimentary extended warranty but I doubt they'll do much more as they’re going to take in the shorts with your current vehicle.
Good luck... |
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| ghm2112 |
Teck:
I'm just about out of things to say about your 'experience,' aside from a final good luck and I dig the new avatar (i needed to save and enlarge it to see what it was, but it's great).
Barry:
I'm always curious as to how much the corporation makes in profit from the sale of a car. Do you know? Seems to me the cost of buying back Teck's rig and using it for crash tests or something of the like is a pittance for a multi-multi-multi-million dollar company like Honda. Assuming <1% of MDXs are truly lemons, could throwing in a $2k nav system REALLY be that big a deal? Unfortunately, the answer will probably be 'yes.' Oh well...
Happy Trails:cool: |
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| BarryH |
ghm,
I can't speak for Acura's application of logic, but in my experience it's not always about the money. I'm sure they're more concerned about setting a precedent and how what they do for one customer can create implied liability in future incidents. I'm sure there's a line item in the Acura corporate budget for "good will" which will probably be used to make Teck whole. If they're over budget that won't bode well for all those that need assistance until the new budget period begins. It wouldn't surprise me if they make Teck sign a non-disclosure about the settlement.
And I’m sure that Teck’s MDX will be repaired and sold at a nice discount as opposed to crashed into a wall. And yes, the dealer does have to disclose the cars checkered past to prospective purchasers. I’d guess that Acura will pay for the completion of the outstanding work that needs to be done and kick-in about $10K to the dealer. That means someone can buy an MDX with 5K miles on it for about $25K. Most likely that someone will either be an employee of the dealership or a friend of the dealers management. Isn’t capitalism wonderful? |
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| Crem de la SUV |
quote:
Originally posted by BellTeck
CREM ,
I admire your story about getting the positive results you asked for just going through the normal channels. At this point I wish Acura would step up to the plate like Isuzu did for you.
I don't want any misunderstanding -
I had to drag the Isuzu weasles into a lemon-law hearing to get anything from them.
They kept shrugging me off, handing me back my Trooper with defective brakes.
They even waited until the last hours of the deadline before handing my check over. At that last meeting, they threatened to hold the check if I didn't sign a couple blank forms! Something to do with mileage and ownership, as I remember.
I told them they could do whatever they wanted, but if I didn't get that check by midnight, they would be liable for up to triple damages under our lemon-law provisions.
I left with my check. |
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| msu79gt82 |
quote:
Originally posted by BellTeck
We'll see what the " Offer " will be this week. Most likely on Tuesday because its a holiday weekend.
It would be nice to get an offer of a White 2002 touring Nav with my choice of 5 accessories and 2 years extended warranty with free maintenance for 2 years. Ya think that's asking too much for all the B.S. I went through??
What do you all think would be fair to ask for if you were in this situation?
TECK!
I think what you already said would be fair! I'd ask them for what you want. Good Luck! |
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| BellTeck |
Thanks for the input. Yes GHM I agree there's not too much more too add to the story at this point. Thanks Barry for your 2 cents, your replies are very good and give a " Company view " not just a consumer view. I still hope I find something out this week even if there is a gag or not.
Crem, Im sure it was not just a walk in the park and you had to fight to the end to get what you did. I was admiring your not having to take it to the court system to get any justice. Congrats to you for that sir.
Whew what a HOT weekend its been sofar.
More this week,
TECK |
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| Crem de la SUV |
quote:
Originally posted by BellTeck Crem, I'm sure it was not just a walk in the park and you had to fight to the end to get what you did. I was admiring your not having to take it to the court system to get any justice. Congrats to you for that sir.
Most of all, it was just a lot of note-keeping and letter-writing. You probably do not have to take it through formal legal channels, either, depending upon your state laws. I just hate to think that a lawyer would get a bite out of your misfortune, when you might easily handle it yourself. |
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| BellTeck |
quote:
Originally posted by Crem de la SUV
Most of all, it was just a lot of note-keeping and letter-writing. You probably do not have to take it through formal legal channels, either, depending upon your state laws. I just hate to think that a lawyer would get a bite out of your misfortune, when you might easily handle it yourself.
Let's see - Note keeping: Im on page 12 of my MDX problem timeline, I have 2 pages of out of pocket costs, I have at least 10 letters written and sent to different organizations including the certified / registered / return reciept request to Acura twice and copies to the attourney generals office.
Other than that I have 3 months worth of - Countless hours of research on the internet and setting up Case's with Acura, BBB, NHTSA, Planetfeedback.
Im on my 7th rental car, hundreds of miles to and from dealers and rental car agency's and I cant imagine how much gas and Toll I used on it all.
Hours of phonecalls to Dealers Sales / Service departments, Agencies, Acura Customer Client (Care), American Honda Motors, Bank, Insurance co, Police, Federal agencies, Attourney generals office, BBB etc.
I figured out I would lose in loan interest right now if I have to get another loan ( way over 1K ).
And on a personal side - The headaches, arguments with service departments, dealer reps, acura client reps, rental car company's and not to forget the wife..Geez! The time I took off work and the personal time I invested sofar is amazing.
So yes Crem , I agree I do not want to have to share anything with lawyers in this event but bottom line, If I was forced to, I would take this case to the limit forcing them to make this a Lemon on the title and paying for all costs associated with it including all lawyers fee's, court costs, and B.S. !!!
I hope your reading this Acura ... Nice story sofar isnt it.
TECK ! |
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| DMor |
| IMO, I would consult with a lemon law attorney and make media comments WITH my lawyer present. This not only adds credibility to your claim, but also gives the lawyer some media attention and this is usually good for business. His presence should safeguard you from any defamation charges...although probably no guarantee. ;) You don't want to enter a live interview and say the WRONG thing and complicate your case. If t'were me, I'd want to keep my case simple as possible and focus on getting a NEW MDX. |
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| BellTeck |
DMor,
Not sure if you read the entire thread but im waiting to hear from Acura as we speak about a resolution to this ordeal without a lawyer involved and I know that Acura does NOT want this going to any arbitration because that would mean they would have to actually declare this vehicle a lemon on the title. As of now if they replace or refund, they can repair it and just disclose it as having been repaired.
Im not looking to tarnish Acura's reputation but I will pass the horor story if this is not resolved and they will take the risk of losing some MDX sales and of course a lawsuit that is heavily weighed in my favor right now as I qualify under the lemon law. We'll see what happens this week.
Hey DMor, Im not being rude but why would you put seat covers on leather seats? I thought about it and the seats are very comfortable and even heated. I would guess that the San Diego sun gets the seats hot but I live in Florida and have the dark interior and they are not that hot. Arent you worried about the covers scratching up your leather? Thanks for your input.
TECK! |
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| Robyjo |
I was going to ask the same question about the seat covers...I read the threads on how a few of you x'ers have seat covers--did you find them necessary, or just an added comfort?
Rob:cool: |
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| DMor |
quote:
Originally posted by BellTeck
DMor,
Not sure if you read the entire thread but im waiting to hear from Acura as we speak about a resolution to this ordeal without a lawyer involved and I know that Acura does NOT want this going to any arbitration because that would mean they would have to actually declare this vehicle a lemon on the title. As of now if they replace or refund, they can repair it and just disclose it as having been repaired.
Hey DMor, Im not being rude but why would you put seat covers on leather seats? I thought about it and the seats are very comfortable and even heated. I would guess that the San Diego sun gets the seats hot but I live in Florida and have the dark interior and they are not that hot. Arent you worried about the covers scratching up your leather? Thanks for your input.
TECK!
Actually I scanned the thread. Was just concerned about the Media potential and getting yourself involved in something that might complicate your case. We're involved in the media and I know some of these things can backfire amid the best of intentions. We're free to speak out...sort of.. that's all. :)
RE: Baaah?
They're soft...warm in winter...cool in summer...preserve the leather seats in like new condition...look pretty cool. :)
They don't scratch the leather. It's basically leather to leather and very soft. In fact they probably help preserve the leather from drying out. |
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| BellTeck |
quote:
Originally posted by DMor
Actually I scanned the thread. Was just concerned about the Media potential and getting yourself involved in something that might complicate your case. We're involved in the media and I know some of these things can backfire amid the best of intentions. We're free to speak out...sort of.. that's all. :)
RE: Baaah?
They're soft...warm in winter...cool in summer...preserve the leather seats in like new condition...look pretty cool. :)
They don't scratch the leather. It's basically leather to leather and very soft. In fact they probably help preserve the leather from drying out.
DMor,
I will ask them what I will have to sign before any resolution and if its just a gag then MMM MMmm MMm Mm .. If I read through it and do not like any of the wording I will ask to consult an attourney prior to signing. As far as the media involved .. I dont mind camera's !!!
LOL --> Baaah
As long as you say the seats wont get all scratched up then the covers should be ok .. I would worry about that. I guess as long as you keep the seats conditioned that the covers should be ok on the leather.
You have the NAV too .. How do you like it and is there a charge per year for it besides the extra CD's that you have to buy? Thanks again ,
TECK! |
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| DMor |
I love my Nav. She doesn't always take the quickest route, but that's more the fault of the "mappers" than the unit itself. It's only as smart as the programmer's information, I guess. Meanwhile, it's like touring in your own car. You set it and LaDeeDA...sight see...and listen to her say. HEY DUMMY...I SAID U TURN IS POSSIBLE!. :) It was GREAT in San Francisco! I could focus on traffic...streets...people, instead of worrying about reading every street sign or referring to a distracting map. SHE was the tour director on THAT trip. I suppose an updated DVD will $et me back a little...but it's more fun than Thos. Bro Maps!
One more nice feature is you can always return home from just about anyplace...even if you're kinda lost...you just plug in your home address. Plus she remembers every place you've ever been and other cool features.
If you don't already have it, I highly recommed it as part of your settlement...WITH the rest of the NEW MDX of course. ;) |
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| AtlantaMDX |
Teck,
Do any of your local TV stations have consumer reports/watch dogs? If so, you might want to contact them. Seems to me that would be the fastest/easiest way for negative publicity against the dealership/Acura..... |
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| mytonka |
| Good point AtlantaMDX, Clark Howard would have your dealer for breakfast, but you should expect him to criticize you for purchasing a gas-guzzling lux SUV, when you could have paid $3,000 or a Geo Metro which gets him around town just fine at around 40 mpg! |
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| BellTeck |
ATL,
We do have one of those guy's down here in the greater Miami/ Ft. Lauderdale area. Its on Channel 7 News - called Help Me Howard. He's a 40+ year old lawyer with a ponytail who gives legal advise and confronts companies via phone/mail. I dont remember the camera's going into a dealership or company - they always say that the company declines to comment as im sure the dealer and acura would do the same. But yes this would get my story across to consumers also and damage the Acura MDX SUV in a huge market.
TECK! |
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| BellTeck |
quote:
Originally posted by ghm2112
Barry:
I'm always curious as to how much the corporation makes in profit from the sale of a car. Do you know? Seems to me the cost of buying back Teck's rig and using it for crash tests or something of the like is a pittance for a multi-multi-multi-million dollar company like Honda. Assuming <1% of MDXs are truly lemons, could throwing in a $2k nav system REALLY be that big a deal? Unfortunately, the answer will probably be 'yes.' Oh well...
Happy Trails:cool: [/B]
GHM,
A guess would be:
MDX - tour/nav Retail 39450.00
Invoice per kelly BB - 35195.29
4254.71 total not incl dealer fee's/acc
Estimated dealer 30% 1276.41 - 300.00 = 976.41
Dealer Salesman 300.00 Per my salesman who quit
Left over for Acura ? 2978.30
Im not sure about the 30% to the dealer, it may be less but im sure Acura makes almost 3K per unit - x 40000 units = a good chunk of change.
What makes these special to the dealer is that they can not only charge MSRP, they can add on accessories and of course the total rip off dealer fee's. So im sure the dealer can make from 1K to 2K depending on the sale.
IMHO of course.
TECK! |
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| JNanas |
Teck-
You're way off there dude - the invoice price is what Acura basically 'sells' (I know they don't sell it - but look at it that way) the car to the dealer.
The dealer makes as profit-
All accessories
The markup over invoice
Dealer holdback
Dealer holdback is usually between 2-4% of the vehicle's invoice price. This money actually decreases as time goes on (based on how long the vehicle sits on the dealers lot) - kinda like a financing fee for the car to the dealer. This is a good incentive to get the dealers to move cars - and another reason why they should be able to factory order cars at a decent price, since it's basically automatic full holdback.
Your salesman makes a commission based on the delta of invoice and sales price - so, an example:
(Simplifying - no particular car or dealer in question)
MSRP of vehicle : $30,000
Invoice of vehicle (assume it's 6% less) : $28,200
Play between MSRP and invoice : $1,800
Dealer holdback (assuming it's 4%) : $1,200
So you go to your faithful dealer, and strike a deal for $500 over invoice. You have bought the car at $28,700. The dealer has made $500 + dealer holdback of $1,200 = $1,700, minus what they have to give to the salesman (I'll guess 30%, although I doubt it's that much) roughly $500, leaving them $1,200 in profit.
This of course doesn't include dealer or customer incentives, or money made from financing the car.
For a good background in car buying - go to http://www.carbuyingtips.com. He explains everything in great detail, frustrating dealers on the way. |
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| BellTeck |
John,
I understand where you got your nickname from now LOL! Your a computer geek arent you? Hehehe Luckily im much better at the communications industry than I am at car manufacturing and thank you for the brief education .. like I said it was MHO only and I just know that the dealers will do anything they can ( clean or dirty ) to get as much money from you as possible. Now can you explain the service department and how much they make on repairs? LOL
All I know is im sick of Acura right now. I called my dealer this morning and they told me they have been working on the MDX all day yesterday and today. Im still waiting for a call from my rep as he was not there when I called. I have the feeling Acura is going to try to stick me back in that thing again even after all the crap I went through. I made a call to Media relations yesterday and never got a call back. I feel its almost time to get a lawyer. :mad:
TECK! |
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| JNanas |
Teck-
Whatever you do - get rid of that car - seriously.
The VIN number has now been associated with all these repairs and complaints - so if someone decides to check the car history, it'll show up with a checkered past.
I still don't understand why you don't have a lawyer. Here's a question - if someone were suing you for $40k, would you have a lawyer? I think so.
Basically - the same stakes, just reversed. You're standing to lose a $40k investment (ok, not entirely, but you get the point). Get a lawyer, and a good one, and you see how fast they stop jerking you around.
You've got the typical techie aversion to lawyers (don't feel bad; same here). This kind of situation is why you need lawyers.
-J |
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| BellTeck |
John,
Yea I guess your right .. getting a lawyer is like having someone else fight your battle. I called the BBB back and started the clock again on the case. I am on day 28 and Acura has to do something by the 40th day per Fla LL - I am pushing the case to Arbitration after that last and final chance.
Now - this is my case - Its been in the shop 30 days, there have been 6 repair attmepts ( all major ), I have sent all letters and documents per FLA state LL proceedures, I got the return info from the Attourney Generals office, Acura is STILL screwing with me by not returning phonecalls and pushing me off to buy time. Im extremely frustrated at this point and have thrown my arms up in the air... If I get my choice I will now go for the refund as I never want to have to deal with this company again. I wish you all luck and hope you never have any major problems with yours.
TECK! |
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| remery |
BellTeck,
First don't hire a lawyer unless it is absolutely your last resort. Once you bring a lawyer in, Acura has no other choice but to use theirs and that starts the posturing. Someone earlier in this thread metioned they were able to get full reimbursement through non-litigation channels. Patience many times has its rewards so sit tight and don't take JNanas's advice on this one.
As for Acura profit or really margin, I would imagine it is more like $5K plus per MDX since it is a low production vehicle and has to cover it's share of the factory overhead plus 4 years of development. If Honda is a rational company, it is displacing minivans that it is selling everyone it makes so the MDX has to contribute at least as much margin and probably more to allocated that much assembly capacity to it. |
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| Crem de la SUV |
Bell,
If your situation satisfies the LL rules, don't bother with arbitration. That's for marginal cases, I think. It will allow the manufacturer more leniency in the outcome. Forget the BBB.
Go right for the LL solution. It is all-or-nothing, and if you have satisfied the requirements, you will walk away with all your money back in your pocket. |
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| BellTeck |
Remery,
I really dont want to have to go the lawyer route but if forced I would. I called the dealer back and he told me that they are working on the truck .. He told me they have replaced tires, drive shaft, rear diff, front diff and want to try other things too. This did not make me feel any better and in fact made me feel like I lost my Butt on the whole thing.
I did call the BBB and start the clock again, I did get in touch with the honda media relations guy and he sent my case to a " Specialist ". He also said the local parts guy was upset that no one told him about my truck when it came back in. The media relations guy told me " Most likely this will go in the direction that you want it to go in but it takes time to do so " I told the guy I have been going through this for over 2 months now and that im getting a tad restless and the fact that NO ONE calls me back and that I have to make the calls to find out whats going on is annoying also.
The guy said he is waiting for a callback from the Local parts guy and that I should stay in the rental and he would give me a call back next week with the outcome.
I asked the guy some questions about the exchange of the vehicle and if I have any say in the matter. He said he can take my requests and put them in my log so I put my request in. Im really not in a good mood right now so I will have to write more later. sorry :mad:
TECK! |
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| BellTeck |
Crem,
I do in fact fall under every catagory of the LL at this time. The BBB case HAS to be done per FL LL and then I can get it to go to arbitration at the Attourney General Level. So right now the clock is ticking again for the BBB case and as soon as thats done, it will be where I want it to be and I then I will have the choice to get a replacement or a refund. ( I would be more than happy to just get my money back at this point )
Thanks all for your reply's
TECK !
For the rest - The SAGA Continues ...
Tune in next time when teck says "What the ___ "! |
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| ghm2112 |
And Acura is saving money (or setting the desired precedence) on this one how????
For crissakes, they've practically rebuilt his entire vehicle, plus put him in a loaner, plus paid for all their employees dealing (or NOT dealing) with the matter, plus are getting slammed on this (and hopefully edmunds) board. is someone REALLY going to tell me this is the way Acura's proceedures are supposed to work? and that it is all normal operations of a mega-corp?:confused: :rolleyes: |
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| JNanas |
Wait a minute....
Hiring a lawyer will *START* posturing?!
What do you call the past two months of Teck's agony? Good customer service?!
Teck - I'm the last one to hire a lawyer - but you NEED one. You have a $40k investment in jeopardy, not to mention your time and suffering waiting for this to be resolved, which - I don't know about you - but my time is money.
Call a lawyer - don't hesitate. Acura knows the legal score - they know all the policies, all the laws. You're working from a position of disadvantage. By not calling a lawyer - all you've done is guaranteed that Acura will use the laws to their advantage, and screw you out of what's rightfully yours.
What's the worst that would happen if you called a lawyer? Acura would start court proceedings? For cryin' out loud - most companies PAY PEOPLE OFF to not have to go to court.
As far as Crem's post - Acura is saving money this way. How? Because in most cases, people won't complain and hire lawyers. They won't push the manufacturer and dealer into doing whatever it takes to satisfy them. That's because people, in general, are STUPID. Teck, you're to be commended - you've pushed back, and not let them make you accept a vehicle that you absolutely should NOT have to keep.
Here's a question - Teck, if you're a techie, you'll prove your worth right here:
What's the failure rate of a rebuilt item versus a factory new item, on average - better or worse?
The answer - almost all rebuilt items are BY DEFINITION worse than factory originals. On the average. That's discounting new items that are defective. This is because QA and controls around the rebuilders are not the same as in the new factory (8 years of college in engineering has taught me at least that much).
So basically, Acura has saddled you with a part that more often than not will not have the same reliability factor as a new part. |
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| BellTeck |
I called the dealer back and talked to the rep I have been dealing with. I first asked him what has been done to the vehicle now and he told me.
1) they tried replacing tires
2) they tried replacing/adjusting/balancing the driveshaft
3) they tried adjusting the motor mounts
4) they tried adjusting the transmission
5) they tried adjusting the front and back differential / VTM
And they want to keep it and try a couple more things.
I thought to myself " GREAT now they have screwed up all these factory settings and parts along with the motor and transmission "
I asked him if there were any factory parts left on it!
I told him that I never did get a call back from the local parts and service guy everyone keeps talking about and he said that he would try to have him call me. I told him that I would like to ask him the same question I ask acura .. and that is how am I supposed to sell this thing with all the problems that it has? He said I dont know
I also told him at this time I just want my money back as I have no faith left in Acura whatsoever. He agree'd and said he understands and would feel the same way.
Thats it ... how disappointing
I dont think at this point a crook would even steel this piece of crap.
Maybe I can part it out and make some money back ... floor mats anyone? Gas cap? radio knob? rebuilt motor?
TECK! |
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| msu79gt82 |
Here in Houston we got: Marvin Zindler!!
You all know him well, he's the guy who blew the whistle on that Texas institution known as the "Best Little Whorehouse in Texas"
He now has a lifetime contract at the TV station. |
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| msu79gt82 |
Re: Navi
The Nav rocks and I highly recommend it to all. If your settlement involves a replacement vehicle I would ask for a Nav system for all your troubles:D |
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| elf89 |
You'd think Acura would realize how many of us on this site, like me, who have had no problems with their MDX and great service from their dealer are getting a horrible vicarious service experience from Acura through Teck's ordeal.
Teck, I'm sorry you got the MDX from the day the QA guys were sleeping (and I think your dealers have been a big part of the problem, too). I'm impressed with your patience and ability to keep a sense of humor (Teck says, "What the ____?" LOL). I'd give the media guy until next week to get you an answer and then take JNanas' advice and go all out. Good luck!
P.S. We should come up with a code in case Acura slaps a gag order on you. How about, "The dog sleeps at midnight" means Acura finally does the right thing and you get your money back? |
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| BarryH |
Of all the new cars I owned, only one was a lemon. It was a '79 Buick Regal Sport Coupe with the turbo V6 engine. The engine was introduced in '78 so I figured by '79 the kinks would be out. Wrong. The car idled erratically and had gremlins in its ECU that would retard performance for no apparent reason. The dealer (who I had a great relationship with) tried and tried to fix it and couldn't. I don't have Teck's patience so I cut a deal with the dealer to get out of the car. It cost me a couple of thousand dollars but the alternative would have been to go through what Teck is going through now with Acura. My father taught me a long time ago - "would you rather be right or would you rather be happy?". I went for happy.
All manufacturers view buying back a car with equal disdain. You can go to the Lexus, BMW, and M-B forums and read horror stories similar to what Teck is experiencing. No car company will willingly say "our bad, let us get you out of that obviously defective vehicle". For some reason they’d rather put $20K into repairs than to take someone out of a car. At some point, Teck will probably beat Acura into submission but not without considerable frustration on his part. But for those of you waving the “luxury brand” and “customer service” flags you’d be naďve to think that Lexus, BMW, and M-B owners wouldn’t end up being put through a similar process. A good example of this is the new BMW M3 that people are paying close to $10K over MSRP to own. There are a slew of mechanical problems that have cropped up that a large number of owners are reporting. BMW’s response so far has been to turn a deaf ear and quote the “performing as designed” mantra. And BMW is a much more upscale marque than Acura.
Also, keep in mind this is an isolated incident. I've been on this forum since January and have heard of only two serious mechanical problems. For a first year vehicle, that's not too shabby. I know the fact that he's one of the two doesn't make Teck feel any better. I have a TL-S in addition to my MDX and would still recommend an Acura product to my friends and family based on my personal experience.
So, good luck Teck, and sorry you drew the low card. |
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| Robyjo |
quote:
"The dog sleeps at midnight"
LOL elf...how about "The Ferrari's in the Carport." :)
Hang in there Teck... |
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| BellTeck |
MSU,
I have seen the Navi and it is pretty cool .. a toy of course but still pretty cool.
Elf,
Your post was pretty much what I had in mind. Next week will be a big deciding factor on what will happen. And yes, I was raised to laugh at the really stupid things in life along with having a very sarcastic sence of humor. :p
Barry,
Through this whole ordeal I dont think I have trashed Acura or screamed "DONT BUY IT DONT BUY IT" anytime. What I have brought to this thread is the god honest truth as it happens. Im not pushing anyone to buy or not to buy, im just telling my story. I will let YOU figure out that portion and make your own decisions.
Excuse my words here barry but " I will NOT take a loss over this vehicle and I will win in the end " mark my words
I have read people's horor story's and admit that it did change my mind on some very important things. One was an apartment building... people complained about something as silly as extremely low water pressure and the company would not do anything about it. This changed my mind about moving there although it had everything I was looking for at that time and the right price also. ( years ago ) The people did not scream dont live here, they just told thier story. Now my question to you is , what if you would have got this truck? Would you still be as forgiving to Acura as you are now? Hmmmm :rolleyes:
TECK! |
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| golfski |
(Note - from a Canadian perspective): I believe the LL was designed to minimize the need for litigation. Same with arbitration. They're both "quasi-judicial" proceedings instituted to save court time. For this reason, if Acura has 12 days left (according to your state's LL) to respond, then I'd wait to hire a lawyer until this date passes. I can't see what hiring a lawyer, at THIS stage, would gain. Unless you're thinking of sueing for additional damages (for your time, frustration, etc.) I'd wait to see if the regular process works. If it doesn't then you should get a lawyer. It's too early to say that the LL process has failed you, because Acura still has a few day's to respond.
If you've documented all of your complaints, and have been describing them in an unbiased manner on these forums, I personally don't see how Acura can avoid replacing your car. Acura probably knows this too. They're probably waiting until the last minute to make a decision, in the desperate and ill-conceived hope that you'll accept their repair solutions. If they knew how much bad-will they're generating they'd probably act a lot more quickly. |
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| BarryH |
A friend of mine was the fleet manager at the largest Buick dealership in S. Florida. I had a total of seven Buick's ('75 - '88). The lemon Regal was the second of the seven. I didn't let one bad experience sour me on the entire company and the other six were all great cars and I look back on them fondly. My perspective on all of this is that it's really luck of the draw. I drew a bad Buick and you drew a bad Acura. It doesn't make Buick or Acura inherently bad companies. So the answer to your question is - yes, I'd forgive Acura as I forgave Buick. There’s a parallel in the airline industry. United and American have both had serious accidents caused by procedural errors either in operations or maintenance. That doesn’t mean they’re bad airlines and their overall record is good. If you look at Korean and China Airlines, they’re track record indicates they’re both a mess and personally I wouldn’t fly either of them. I guess I try to look at the big picture, which isn’t always easy when you’re personally involved.
I'm not saying that your pursuit of truth and justice is inappropriate; just that the path to resolution you've chosen is different than the one I selected when confronted with a similar issue. Should I have had to pay a couple thousand dollars to get out of my lemon? No. But it was worth it to me to put the whole thing behind me more quickly. In the long run I recouped my loss because the Buick dealer treated me like a god from that moment forward. They repaired things under warranty that to this day I still have no idea how they got them through.
I'm also not defending Acura and have no stock in the company. People read forums to gather information and form opinions. It's natural for the majority of forum posts to lean toward complaints and negative issues and this forum is no exception. I wouldn't want people coming to this forum to think that your experience was the rule rather than the exception. I'm in no way diminishing what you've been through, but so far you're the only one to have gone through it (that I'm aware of).
I really do wish you the best and hope the outcome is in your favor. |
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| BellTeck |
Barry ,
Unfortunatly I dont have any friends working at Acura like you did at Buick. I dont even get phonecalls about the status of my situation as sofar I have had to make the contact each and every time. Im on my 2nd dealership because the first one was totally unethical and caused damage to my vehicle and then denied it. Now dealing with corporate im in the same situation and that is hurry up and wait. This all started on 6/23 and today its 9/6 and still Acura will not step up to bat and do the right thing.
Im sure you would feel differently if you were the person that was injured on those airlines - until then you can take your % of situations and calculate them as much as you want to. These boards are made for communication be it good , bad , crabing, joking, or whatever. Im sure it burns the heck out of corporate people like you that the consumers can now communicate problems to each other and be heard as one as easily as this is.
I want to know how your situation was similar to mine as im sure your dealerships treated you with the upmost respect and also respected your vehicle too .. sofar I have been treated like crap and my vehicle vandalized while also getting yelled at by Acura employee's at the dealership and Acua Corporate. Gives me that warm fuzzy feeling !
If I didnt know any better Barry I'd say you worked for Acura reading your responses.
TECK!
( Sorry all for the venting ) |
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| golfski |
I have to disagree with Barry's approach too, but to each his own.
Not to defend Acura, but it's possible that there are some internal problems preventing a quick solution. Maybe there's a problem allocating fault (eg - are the problems due to a negligent dealer, or due to a poorly manufactured car?). A company with really good customer relations would just step in, take care of the customer, and sort out the blame later. It's obvious that Acura US doesn't have that type of power or attitude. Too bad Bellteck has to suffer as a result.
There's alway's going to be a few lemons in ANY car production. I don't think anyone would blame Acura for producing a few lemons. However, how a car company deals with these lemons, is what will set them apart. Unless there's something that hasn't been disclosed here, it really look's like Acura is dropping the ball on this one. |
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| BarryH |
Teck,
In response to your last post:
1) Having "friends" at Buick didn't help me as I still had to cough up cash to get out of the car and they couldn't do much for me with corporate. And by the way, we became “friends” through my experiences with the dealer and hadn’t known each other beforehand.
2) While I would define myself as "corporate" I think the Internet is a great communication vehicle and has enormous potential as a way for large companies to interact more closely with end users and influence opinion in ways never before possible. I have staff assigned to follow forums in our industry to get market views and opinions and to detect trends. (Note: an incident is not a trend until it happens repeatedly). I'm sure Acura's marketing department does also.
3) The sword cuts both ways. You can champion the Internet as a vehicle for "free speech" and the “voice of the little people” all you want, but you still have to be prepared to hear views and opinions that don't support yours. Attacking my perspectives and accusing me of being "corporate" and an "Acura employee" sort of runs contra to that don't you think? And by the way, I may not agree with you but I'd go to the ends of the earth to protect your right to your opinion and my right to mine.
4) Being "corporate", I know how to interact with large companies when I encounter a problem and am usually successful in getting the situation resolved appropriately. I’ve found that the "but can’t you see how wronged I've been!" approach isn't always the most efficient or effective.
5) Life's not fair. Cars break. Planes crash. Evil triumphs over good. We don't always get what we want. Ces't la vie.
I met Richard Collivier, Acura's VP Marketing, at a trade show and have sent him an e-mail regarding your situation. Maybe it will help. Certainly can't hurt. |
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| Tom-TX |
TECK:
I have sat on the sidelines throughout your most unfortunate ordeal but now feel a need to jump in. I am not eloquent enough to express my sincere sorrow that anyone had to go through this, least of all someone with your controlled and leveled perspective.
Before I go any further, yes I am an engineer.
The bottom line here is that you exchanged money to receive a commodity and got nothing in return for that money except for heartache, frustration, and disillusionment…PERIOD.
With the exception of someone trying to fulfill a masochistic need, I do not believe anyone would feel what you got in exchange for your money was appropriate. Any discussion of excuses, reasons, one rotten apple spoiling the bunch, etc. is just not germane to the bottom line…PERIOD!
I’m not suggestion people stifle this exchange but rather I’m just trying to offer my personal perspective here as to how I stay focused and sort out these issues.
For whatever it’s worth and I hope you take this constructively, why don’t you just focus on what you now want. Don’t even bother talking with any Acura person about what’s being done on that vehicle. Yes I realize this pertains to the details of the LL, but it gives them a feeling that fixing and returning the vehicle is a viable option. Just inquire about the one thing you now want! Is it cash back or a new vehicle? In either case what do you want to compensate you for the ordeal plus out of pocket losses? I wouldn’t give them any hint of hope that they can return to you anything less than want YOU want.
Lastly, the lawyers. There is a reason they are likened to sharks. When one comes to feed, it draws others and muddy / bloody waters often are the result. I personally would only resort to this route if you can’t get what you want otherwise. Oh yea… if anyone is now getting upset by my lawyer analysis please don’t. I realize that like a surgeon doing their job, some blood and a few cuts are just part of the process.
Best of luck (from this point on at least) and keep up the controlled and level outlook. It should be an example for the rest of us on the sidelines. |
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| VA Tech Hokie |
BarryH, thanks for your positive comment. I know there have been many positive comments about the MDX, but I have one ordered and some days when I cruise this site, I wonder if I am making the right decision with the MDX. I think the MDX looks great and I get excited each time I get to see the elusive vehicle. There are not many MDXs in this area, so this past weekend when I took a 6 hour roundtrip on I-81, one of the most exciting things was getting to look for MDXs(I know I need a life). Unfortunately, I did not see ONE.
The closest dealer to me is 40 miles away and it is not the one I am purchasing my vehicle from, so if I do have problems, each time I deal with the dealer I will have to waste a lot of valuable work time. I currently own two vehicles. One is a 1998 Audi A4 and it is a sweet ride which has only provided driving pleasure for me. It has nearly 40K miles and has only been to the dealer for normal preventive maintenance. The other is a fully equipped 1999 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited. I have had to visit the Jeep dealer several times since owning this vehicle, so I desire for my next vehicle to be of better quality. I know the RX300 is probably the "pick" for quality, but I prefer the looks of the MDX. I have owned Toyotas and they have been nothing but perfect. In selecting the MDX, I was hoping for that type of perfection. Lot of folks want more power, VSC, HIDs and etc, but for me I am wanting a great looking vehicle, which feels luxurious and is dependable.
So far, my ordering dealer has been very good and what he tells me seems to match most of what Roger has been telling us, but again when I read the horror stories about how some folks are being treated, I even have second thoughts about whether my dealer will follow through with all the promises he has made to me. Anyway, for what it is worth this is my 2 cents....
(ok, here is where all you guys, who think the MDX is the greatest thing since sliced bread, assure me buying the MDX will be the best thing I ever do..:D :D :D ) |
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| BellTeck |
Barry,
1) Im not sure how I could have become friends to a service manager who calls me on a friday after noon and tells me if I dont bring the loaner car back by 10am the next morning that I will be charged for the entire rental. ( This all after the rebuilt my engine and abused my truck )
2) What business are you in again? and thanks for the Business Psyc class IE: (Note: an incident is not a trend until it happens repeatedly)
3) I do recall thanking you for the different views in this thread not too long ago - this internet is a wonderful place for little people just like me to communicate. And I did not atack nor accuse you of anything, I mearly said " It sounds like from your responses "
4) Ya really know how to kick a guy when he's down dont cha barry LOL!! I appologize if I have been sending out the " but can’t you see how wronged I've been!" approach vibes , this whole time I thought I was just trying to get what I paid for and thats a nice $40000.00 Acura MDX SUV. To me 40000.00 is a lot of money , you make it sound like its pocket change.
5) Yes life is not fair, and cars do break and all the other stuff too .. but ya know what .. im no fool when it comes to business and customer service. Im not focusing on the truck, in fact if you read back you can tell how much I enjoy(ed) the truck prior to the disaster. My problem is the Company itself. Of course Acura cant make 40000 perfect MDX SUV's or they would take over the entire marketplace with them. To wrap it all up barry im just a Squirrel trying to get a nut.
Finally - Im not sure who Richard Collivier, Acura's VP Marketing is or what he can do to help but when your at the bottom of the rope, you'll grab anything to not get pushed off. Thanks for sending the email and also for your views and opinion's, your right that it is one thing we all have the right too.
TECK! |
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| BellTeck |
Thanks to golfski, tom-tx and hokie and welcome to the thread.
Hokie, I wont tell you to buy or not to buy, the X is a great truck .. I guess it is all up to the dealer you have. I cant say much about Acura corporate though. :rolleyes:
TECK! |
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| VA Tech Hokie |
Teck,
I want to say my "thank you" comment to BarryH was nothing negative towards you. I have a '02' ordered and have been very excited about the MDX but some of the things I read on this site
make me wonder if I have made the right decision. It was good, for me, to read BarryH's slant on the situation.
It is not really your situation and what you are saying which tends to make me question my choice. I think your situation is unique and I am glad it is you and not me going thru your ordeal. If yours were the only problem posting on this site, I would chalk it up to a one time thing and go on. I must say for all the MDXs sold and this being a 1st year model, there are not too many problems as major as yours. For me, it will be the little things which bother me the most, things such as the "weeping mirrors"(I like to wash my car and it stay clean), navis which stop working, cd players which stop working, orange peel paint, thuds and etc... Although very inventive, I think is is apprehsive someone has to add screen stuff to their $40K vehicle to stop the wind noise or stop the mirror from dripping water. For me it is the little things I see posted which make me a little hesitant about my choice... It is the little things which require one to take a day off to take their car to the dealer to have something fixed which make me question my decision...... Maybe I am wishing for too much, but I want a luxury vehicle, which does not require me to put most of my spare time into taking it to a dealer for little problems.... I want an MDX, with Lexus quality and if the quality is not in the product, as it is shipped from the factory, I want the factory to address and correct the situation..... I am excited about the MDX, but after visiting this site so much and reading about some of the MDX problems, I will be much more critical of the vehicle than I would have been had I not read about so many little problems. Remember, I am currently in a vehicle which has given me some problems and I am looking for a dependable replacement. I am hoping Acura has corrected some of the little
troublesome problems in the '02'..... The one positive spin I sense with most of the MDX owners is although there are little problems they still love their MDX..... Even you, with all the problems you have had, you still post positive feelings and emotions about the MDX, including replacing your current lemon MDX with a new one... These type of feelings, by most of the MDX owners, go a long way towards making me feel I have made the right decision..... |
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| JNanas |
Hate to sound drastic - but these analyses are so typical of a rape - everyone's rushing to blame the victim, and it's to the point where even Teck is feeling guilty.
Now - not that I think Acura handles every case like this - but the way that Teck has been treated is irreprehensible. Even worse is the fact that Acura's a luxury manufacturer. I've had some problems with Ford myself - but my Ford was dirt cheap, not a $40k SUV.
I'm all for amicable settlements - and I don't think the first phone call should go to the lawyers. But like I keep saying - time is money. Your car is an ev | | | |
