| BigHersh |
After leaving class this afternoon, I had some free time to burn, so I decided to swing by David McDavid Acura. As I pulled in, I noticed "0" 2007 MDX's on the lot, but as I angled towards my parking space, here it came- the one model they have available for a demo. I looked inside, and there were two more, one silver, and one black. The one outside was steel blue.
First impression:
Wow!
The Sport (Tech)/ENT MDX MSRP's for $48,895, the Tech/ENT package was $46,895, ($2,000 less). The sport variant had perforated leather seats, the other (cheaper) one had smooth leather. Let me tell you, it looks infinitely more modern than the 2001 - 2006 variant, and it is far better looking in person than the pictures. If you are on the fence, do yourself a favor, and go look at one in person, before you scratch it off your list.
Dealership Experience:
Being a 6'2" black man, dressed in black, and weighing damn-near 300 pounds, I'm not the kind of guy you don't see when I walk into an establishment. I am noticed, (Except at Park Place Lexus), especially in a fluorescently lit building. I'm sad to say that I had been in the dealership every bit of 20-minutes, I'd opened all four doors on the MDX, and gotten in the front, and back seat- tried the controls and everything. I even made eye contact with at LEAST six salesmen, including the accessory guy, and three of the people that helped me with my 2006's delivery... Not only was I not asked if I needed any help, or asked any questions- I wasn't even spoken to.
Meanwhile, they were all pondering over the few white customers... Clearly, I did not represent the expected demographic to be looking at an Acura.:rolleyes: As you can tell, I thought that was kinda f*cked up, but- then again- it happened to my friend in 2002- which is why he got his Acuras (plural) from Goodson in Irving. I guess I caught them on a good day back in February, when it was "Mister BigHersh this, and Mister BigHersh that, here are some refreshments Mister BigHersh...
I admit, my salesman (Josh) wasn't there !at least, I didn't see him~. Two young white girls (The oldest one, may have been 22) were near (within 4 feet) me, and a salesman asked if they needed help. ( i know some 22 year olds in Plano, TX can afford an MDX, but damn, it's OK to assume, but don't act on your assumptions, not in commissioned sales...) When they said no, the salesman walked past me with no words...
After about 20 minutes, and now looking at my second MDX (Silver), a young salesman named "Bill" came over and asked if I had been helped. I told him that I hadn't, but that I really didn't need any since I was just looking, but thanked him for asking. Thanks Bill, I appreciate that. We chatted for the next 10-15 minutes about the beautiful new MDX. Only when I began to exit the building did two other salesmen speak to me, talking about, "Come back and see us..." If I were easily offended, I would rather drive to Irving or Arlington, than come back there. If you've driven in DFW, you think like I do... I'm going to whatever's closer.
The Vehicle
First off, the seats are WAY more luxurious. These actually FEEL like luxury car seats. The seat back is wide and supportive (I wear a size 52 athletic, jacket, so if I say it's wide, it's wide.) The cushion feels good. The gearshift is canted towards the driver, and right where my hand falls (with the seat all the way back).
The interior ergonomics are far superior to the 2006 MDX. I own a 2006, so I don't say this lightly. Their are nice little cubbies, there's one by the passengers left foot, and the cup holders have a slide away cover- perfect for keeping your coins out of the sight of crackheads. The center console is no longer two-stage, and it opens very much like that in the 7-series BMW (split in half).
The only one you could test drive was being shown extensively, and I didn't feel like waiting. I'll probably make an appointment to test drive one later... They'd just gotten them in this morning. I'll repost when I get to drive one.
They had the silver one connected to commercial power. Everything was on, including the beautifully installed rear DVD and the Navigation system. The Navigation screen is high mounted, so you can view it without completely taking your eyes off the road (peripheral vision). The electronics are laid out well, and the DVD/CD set up is rather nice in person. The cluster is somewhat busy, yes, but also "technical" in its appearance. Buttons are easy to reach, and legible. The "I-Drive" is very cool (Then again, I have no trouble with the one in the Bimmer either, I guess I'm technically savvy).
The sunroof might be a hair bigger, nothing to write home about. The functions are very much like the 2006, same blue "mood lighting", Bluetooth standard on all models, controls are mounted on the face of the steering wheel now, rather than in the 2006's left "trigger" position.
It has push button tailgate closing (on the tailgate), and there is a push button release for the fuel cap and lift gate on the lower driver-side door panel. Behind the third row, there may be enough room for one bag of golf clubs. third row down, there seems to be less space than the 2006.
Comfort:
If you are a regular sized male: (5'8", 170 lbs- you will find the MDX infinitely comfortable. In fact, if you are up to 5'11" you'll find it quite comfy. At 6’2”, it was a bit of a duck to get into it, but once inside, it felt pretty good- in that way, it's not much different than sex... Sorry, I had to slip that in there (no pun intended) :)
I'm sorry to say the dead pedal is still badly placed (if you are over 5'11"). However, it is a little more comfortable than the 2006, and let me tell ya- every little bit counts. In the back seat, I got in, behind my seat in the position I'd need it in to drive it. I'd be OK for a trip of 2-hours (round trip) or less. I wouldn't want to sit behind me on a road trip.
In the front, the seats felt very nice- it feels quite spacious. I didn't get to drive it, but let me say, from the assometer, this is the closest you can get to a car, and have an SUV.
Conclusion
Honestly, I was set up to be under-whelmed by the MDX. I so wanted it to be not much nicer than my 2006... Well, that sh*t's not gonna happen... My 2006 is a butter knife at a gunfight. If I was in the market tonight, I'd have ordered one on the spot (The ones on the floor are not for sale) I liked it that much. It is so much nicer looking, inside and out than my 2006, I would have purchased (or leased) tonight. With the Enclave coming, I'm glad I'm in the position I'm in (Having to wait). While I'm damn near certain, the Enclave will be more comfortable than the MDX; I'd be SERIOUSLY SURPRISED if the interior ergonomics come within a country mile of this new MDX. (I still like the Enclave though- and may end up with it, especially with it being $9,000 cheaper, loaded w/Navigation.)
Having seen the MDX up close and personally. Having put butt to seat, and viewed the interior & exterior, I can honestly say. There is not an SUV on the PLANET, that's more fly than this new MDX, not the Range Rover, not the Escalade, not even the GL450...
When it comes to design, execution, and everything one can tell about a vehicle (without driving it), until the new RX*** comes out, Acura has absolutely NO COMPETITION in the mid-size SUV category. NONE...
I say this not because I'm a fan, you all know I'll pick an Acura apart just as quickly as I will a Kia. I say what I say because it's the truth, as I see it.
That's the only way I can tell it... |
|
|
| SuperTech |
Quite an in depth review there. Surprised that you say it's more "fly" than the Escalade, and even the Merc GL...which seems to be getting good reviews, though I have yet to see more than just the one I've seen on the road so far. I personally would take the Escalade in a heartbeat over the MDX. But then again, I've never liked that the MDX doesn't have a V8, so it's easy for the Escalade to win me over with its massive V8.
I suppose I'll do my own little technical review of the new MDX sometime later this week. Maybe I'll even throw in a little thoughts of the 2007 TL Type-S while I'm at it. |
|
|
| HARDROCK |
BigHersh - Your experience with lack of "attention" from the salesmen is exactly what I've experienced in the past, even here in L.A. The first time was in 1982 when I was buying my first new car - a Saab 900 Turbo! The first dealer I went to wouldn't even let me open the car door of the model on the floor to look inside, telling me it was already "sold" to someone else... I went back to this dealership a week later with the 900T I purchased elsewhere and showed it off to the sales manager as I told him my story about having tried to do business with his shop.
Jump forward 20 years and I'm trying to buy my '02 MDX Tour/Nav from Santa Monica Acura and I got much the same treatment (but it felt even worst given the time difference).
By the way, I'm only 5'8" and weigh 170lbs so I can't be that scary looking. But maybe being black is enough...
Great review - it got me thinking about an upgrade... |
|
|
| laborlitigator |
Bighersh,
Sorry to hear about your experience with the salespeople there. In the few cases I've litigated against car dealerships, racism appears par for the course. I've had elicited similar testimony like, "Well, you know, black people don't have bad credit. Why don't you go take them." Suffice to say, we settled those claims.
As for your review, it seems like your sold already. Trade in the 06. I'd still like to drive it though before we annoint it the "1". |
|
|
| CPanther95 |
quote:
Originally posted by BigHersh
Being a 6'2" black man, dressed in black, and weighing damn-near 300 pounds, I'm not the kind of guy you don't see when I walk into an establishment. I am noticed, (Except at Park Place Lexus), especially in a fluorescently lit building. I'm sad to say that I had been in the dealership every bit of 20-minutes, I'd opened all four doors on the MDX, and gotten in the front, and back seat- tried the controls and everything. I even made eye contact with at LEAST six salesmen, including the accessory guy, and three of the people that helped me with my 2006's delivery... Not only was I not asked if I needed any help, or asked any questions- I wasn't even spoken to.
I'm 6' 2" about 240 lbs and have never had that kind of experience. Must be a regional issue where people in Dallas still have some problem with big people. I call them bigots. ;) |
|
|
| OP MDX |
No competition? What about the new 2007 BMW X5 with 3rd row seating?
See link... http://content.bmwusa.com/microsite...indexFlash.html
quote:
Originally posted by BigHersh
Conclusion
When it comes to design, execution, and everything one can tell about a vehicle (without driving it), until the new RX*** comes out, Acura has absolutely NO COMPETITION in the mid-size SUV category. NONE...
|
|
|
| papahemi |
Butter knife at a gun fight! Good stuff.
Sorry to hear about the salespeople. What a bunch of morons. |
|
|
| Blessed |
| Man that's a shame about that dead pedal. I am 6'1" and I have a Pilot and the position of the dead pedal makes my knee hurt on long trips. As much as I like the new MDX if the dead pedal is still in a bad place I probably won't get it. I will have to sit in one and see I was hoping that the extra length of the MDX would make a difference. |
|
|
| BigHersh |
quote:
Originally posted by OP MDX
No competition? What about the new 2007 BMW X5 with 3rd row seating?
See link... http://content.bmwusa.com/microsite...indexFlash.html
I'm sure it will be competition where performance is concerned (V8), but on the interior.... Not on your life...
I like their web page though... Very sweet... It's simple & functional on the inside, but it's not as eye catching as the MDX.
Again, this is from my opinion...
That said, I'd take an X5 4.8is over an MDX any day; just because I like V8's. But, I seriously think this new MDX is a healthy alternative, for those (like me) who don't have the $24,000 premium it requires above the $48,000 sport/tech/entertainment package- to move into x5 4.8is territory. |
|
|
| OP MDX |
It remains to be seen if I'll fork out the additional $$ on the X5. If I do it would likely be on the 3.0 not the v8. Here are some terrific pixs of the X5 from autospies...
http://www.autospies.com/news/EXCLU...07-BMW-X5-9315/
quote:
Originally posted by BigHersh
I'm sure it will be competition where performance is concerned (V8), but on the interior.... Not on your life...
I like their web page though... Very sweet... It's simple & functional on the inside, but it's not as eye catching as the MDX.
Again, this is from my opinion...
That said, I'd take an X5 4.8is over an MDX any day; just because I like V8's. But, I seriously think this new MDX is a healthy alternative, for those (like me) who don't have the $24,000 premium it requires above the $48,000 sport/tech/entertainment package- to move into x5 4.8is territory.
|
|
|
| SilveradoMDX |
quote:
Originally posted by OP MDX
No competition? What about the new 2007 BMW X5 with 3rd row seating?
See link... http://content.bmwusa.com/microsite...indexFlash.html
Some of the BMW technology, Acura already has. Even if you acquired the 3rd row seat (which is good for the X5, probably chew some sales on the MDX). But one thing I really do not like is the RES on the X5 if you get the 3rd row seat, how the heck will the 3rd row watch movies or play games. :( I like the backup camera on the X5, there is a grid to show you the pattern as you turn the wheels. I also like the heads up display. Hopefully, Acura can integrate this package on the MDX sometime in the near future.
Again, like BigHersh compliment in some way, "NO COMPETITION in the mid-size SUV category", Acura MDX 2007 has the "Super Handling ALL WHEEL DRIVE" system (no competition and its patented) and real time traffic Navigation which is a really true asset on the MDX as well as the other stuff. The MDX Active Damper System is the first step, hopefully changing them in the future by raising the MDX height level; like the Touareg.
This is personal preferences, I like the X5 exterior a little more and I like the MDX interior far much greater then the X5. |
|
|
| OP MDX |
The new X5 actually loses the ride height option (X5 forums are ablaze about this); they do not have an option (yet, suppose to come out in 2008) for SH all wheel drive; if I were to get one, I would not get the 3rd row (it's an option) I think they are worthless in about anything but a Suburban; I like the dvd location on the X5 so the driver can see with no obstructions in rear view mirror; the new X5 does have real time traffic integrated in their navi. Within the 'adaptive drive' on the new X5 is Electronic Damper Control (EDC) technology. EDC is a processor-controlled wheel suspension system that adjusts the shock absorbers to changing road or driving conditions. EDC regulates damper forces electronically, adapting to road, load and driving conditions. EDC allows you to choose between a comfortable ride or sporty handling.
You know I am not knocking the MDX, in fact look forward to driving one this weekend. I'm in a fortunate situation where I've always wanted a BMW and can afford the premium. The MDX has been an awesome experience driving a SUV. I may be an SUV driver for life. I find the X5 extremely appealing and as the MDX is, the X5 is likely better than the predecessor.
quote:
Originally posted by SilveradoMDX
Some of the BMW technology, Acura already has. Even if you acquired the 3rd row seat (which is good for the X5, probably chew some sales on the MDX). But one thing I really do not like is the RES on the X5 if you get the 3rd row seat, how the heck will the 3rd row watch movies or play games. :( I like the backup camera on the X5, there is a grid to show you the pattern as you turn the wheels. I also like the heads up display. Hopefully, Acura can integrate this package on the MDX sometime in the near future.
Again, like BigHersh compliment in some way, "NO COMPETITION in the mid-size SUV category", Acura MDX 2007 has the "Super Handling ALL WHEEL DRIVE" system (no competition and its patented) and real time traffic Navigation which is a really true asset on the MDX as well as the other stuff. The MDX Active Damper System is the first step, hopefully changing them in the future by raising the MDX height level; like the Touareg.
|
|
|
| gdo |
Thanks for the review BigHersh. Sounds like the 07 is something you have to see before passing judgment on it.
Sorry to hear about the dealer treatment. I too had a similar experience with Acura when I was looking for my sedan. Was checking out a 05 TL for about 20 minutes on the showroom floor and nobody come up to me. Just like you, I made eye contact with a few people and nothing. I actually had to go to somebody and ask for a sales rep so I can talk about the car and ask for a test drive. After about 10 minutes, a sales rep came to me and it was one of the guys that walked by me at least 3-4 times! Went to another dealer (not Acura), and had no problems with somebody coming up to me to see if I had any questions about the car I was looking at.
I'm a fan of Acura. All my cars has been Honda/Acura (not the sedan that end up buying though) but unfortunately, I too feel that it seems you have to have a certain "profile" before you can get help. |
|
|
| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by SilveradoMDX
Acura MDX 2007 has the "Super Handling ALL WHEEL DRIVE" system (no competition and its patented)
I wonder if that means that the MDX will finally outperform the Honda Pilot in the Consumer Reports emergency handling/avoidance manuever testing............ |
|
|
| SilveradoMDX |
| The "Super Handling ALL Wheel Drive" system will do about anything whatever road conditions it present itself, as long as there is a grip on the road. The only ONE thing it will not do for you and that is, if you run over a cliff. |
|
|
| Norb |
Its freaking Dallas, what do you expect? Dallas, home of more $40k/year millionaires than anywhere else on the planet, and leads the nation in hair bleach usage!
Anyway, I also checked out the new MDX. But I was actually dissapointed. Its look very, compact, in person, more like an RDX on steroids than a mid sized SUV. To me, its more like a station wagon instead of an SUV. The interior, while very modern and nice, feels cramped. That dash takes up way too much room, and the rear seats seem to lay on the floor, so you ride with your knees near your chest. How about some stadium seating like every other SUV? Probably couldn't do it because the roof is so low!
The sides need more character and it definitely needs a roof rack. No autodimming mirror on a $45K car? Cheeeeeaaaaap. The salesman broke out the DVD audio demo disc and I found it underwhelming.
The power was pretty good though, with a very sporty growl at higher rpms. One thing I did like, no loved, was how quiet it was and how solid and tight everything seemed. No rattles, even going over some rough streets. Handling was OK, didn't really push it, but it certainly can't be called soft.
Overall, I'm going to wait and feel it out. But right now, I'm thinking about passing on the 07. |
|
|
| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by SilveradoMDX
The "Super Handling ALL Wheel Drive" system will do about anything whatever road conditions it present itself, as long as there is a grip on the road. The only ONE thing it will not do for you and that is, if you run over a cliff.
I would think that the most important thing it could do was help you out in accident/emergency avoidance manuevers. The current MDX claims better handling than the Pilot but it performs worse in the avoidance testing. I was just wondering if SH-AWD is going to at least get it up to Pilot performance in those manuevers. Yes, there is some sarcasm there....... :) . |
|
|
| stiles_s |
quote:
Originally posted by OP MDX
The new X5 actually loses the ride height option (X5 forums are ablaze about this); they do not have an option (yet, suppose to come out in 2008) for SH all wheel drive; if I were to get one, I would not get the 3rd row (it's an option) I think they are worthless in about anything but a Suburban; I like the dvd location on the X5 so the driver can see with no obstructions in rear view mirror; the new X5 does have real time traffic integrated in their navi. Within the 'adaptive drive' on the new X5 is Electronic Damper Control (EDC) technology. EDC is a processor-controlled wheel suspension system that adjusts the shock absorbers to changing road or driving conditions. EDC regulates damper forces electronically, adapting to road, load and driving conditions. EDC allows you to choose between a comfortable ride or sporty handling.
You know I am not knocking the MDX, in fact look forward to driving one this weekend. I'm in a fortunate situation where I've always wanted a BMW and can afford the premium. The MDX has been an awesome experience driving a SUV. I may be an SUV driver for life. I find the X5 extremely appealing and as the MDX is, the X5 is likely better than the predecessor.
Why would BMW want to offer "SH-AWD"??? What makes you think it's superior to BMW's X-drive? Based on what I've read it does a great job hiding the fact that the platform is inherently FWD based, but IMHO it's not going to automatically eclipse a RWD-biased system (such as x-drive or Audi's RWD-biased torsen setpu in the Q7).
I'm really looking forward to driving the new MDX. I sure hope the AWD system is a *huge* leap ahead when compared to the previous generation which (IMHO) sucks in several ways (as you bias towards a sportier driver, which the new MDX definitely purports to do) |
|
|
| SilveradoMDX |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
I would think that the most important thing it could do was help you out in accident/emergency avoidance manuevers. The current MDX claims better handling than the Pilot but it performs worse in the avoidance testing. I was just wondering if SH-AWD is going to at least get it up to Pilot performance in those manuevers. Yes, there is some sarcasm there....... :) .
Yes, very true. That's the most important asset in an SUV. The "Super Handling ALL Wheel Drive" system will recognize which of the 4, or 3, or 2 wheels will require more power, either 50% or 75% or FULL 100% :D power. Thus, preventing a rollover or skid.
No other SUV in the market have achieve full 100% either FWD or RWD. It is best to have this feat then without one, for you and the safety of your loves one. |
|
|
| OP MDX |
Being a non-tech guy, I do know the current BMW system only distributes power front to rear or vice versa. The system they are working on would be able to distribute power to individual wheels. I think this is what SH-AWD is about.
quote:
Originally posted by stiles_s
Why would BMW want to offer "SH-AWD"??? What makes you think it's superior to BMW's X-drive? Based on what I've read it does a great job hiding the fact that the platform is inherently FWD based, but IMHO it's not going to automatically eclipse a RWD-biased system (such as x-drive or Audi's RWD-biased torsen setpu in the Q7).
I'm really looking forward to driving the new MDX. I sure hope the AWD system is a *huge* leap ahead when compared to the previous generation which (IMHO) sucks in several ways (as you bias towards a sportier driver, which the new MDX definitely purports to do)
|
|
|
| SilveradoMDX |
quote:
Originally posted by OP MDX
Being a non-tech guy, I do know the current BMW system only distributes power front to rear or vice versa. The system they are working on would be able to distribute power to individual wheels. I think this is what SH-AWD is about.
That is very completely true. Both the 2007 MDX and X5 distribute power to both front and rear or vice versa. Most high-end SUV (that includes the X5 or ML class) have this technology, achieving only 60% to 70% distribution. Acura took this further to a full 100% power distribution. Which is why the patented technology SH-AWD system. I watched the Motor Week 1-2 months ago and it sponsored the 2007 MDX and the SH-AWD technology power distribution. The SH-AWD is able to distribute 100% front or back and even 50% LEFT front and 50% LEFT rear if there is no grip on both right wheels, thus providing excellent handling on the road. Really awesome. *** ACURA ADVANCE *** |
|
|
| phins2rt |
quote:
Originally posted by SilveradoMDX
Acura took this further to a full 100% power distribution. Which is why the patented technology SH-AWD system. I watched the Motor Week 1-2 months ago and it sponsored the 2007 MDX and the SH-AWD technology power distribution. The SH-AWD is able to distribute 100% front or back and even 50% LEFT front and 50% LEFT rear if there is no grip on both right wheels, thus providing excellent handling on the road. Really awesome. *** ACURA ADVANCE ***
SilveradoMDX,
From what I have read, SH-AWD does not provide 100% of the power to front or rear. It can provide 100% of the AVAILABLE power to the rears (about 70% of power).
Here's something from Acura.com:
When cruising in a straight line, up to 90% of the power is sent to the front wheels for better fuel economy. To accommodate shifting weight, up to 70% of the power can be transferred to the rear wheels, and 50% can be directed to the rear during hard cornering-all of which can be directed to the outside wheel if needed. By continuously distributing power to the wheels in greatest need, the MDX handles all conditions with surprising poise and agility.
and from the RL write up:
Like conventional AWD systems, power distribution can be continuously varied between the front and rear wheels. With SH-AWD, the RL can send up to 100% of the available rear-wheel torque to the wheel with the most traction. This effect dramatically enhances steering performance and turning precision.
I don't think at any time this is truly a rear-wheel drive machine. I may be reading this wrong, but I couldn't find anything in limited searching that stated SH-AWD applies 100% of ALL power to front or rear wheels. I was thinking I read something on the RL site about this as well.
My $.02 and YMMV. |
|
|
| SilveradoMDX |
During straight line cruising and moderate cornering, up to 70 percent of torque is at the front wheels. During full throttle acceleration or spirited driving, up to 70 percent of available torque goes to the rear wheels for increased acceleration and enhanced cornering.
In addition to varying the torque front to rear, SH-AWD varies the amount of torque to the left and right rear wheels. When cornering, this GROUND-BREAKING technology overdrives the outer rear wheel, sending up to 100 percent of rear torque to that wheel to dramatically enhance the cornering, steering feel, handling and stability.
That would mean, if there are 3 wheels with traction, the 4th one turns off thus giving more distribution to which force is greater to the other 3 wheels.
DUDE: Google Acura SH-AWD, you'll get tons of related information. |
|
|
| one4gatr |
Big H...
Thanks so much for the review. Based upon your previous posts I truly value your opinion. I too was UNDER whelmed by the pictures and reviews I had seen to date but will now consider a one on one based upon your notes.
I as a 6'0 fat 280lb white man I have had basically the same experiences as you at the "luxury" dealers (i guess they have a profile chart or something).
But that said its hard to compete with TWO chicks (any color) over one dude regardless of whether or not they were buying. I know MANY a car salesman and if you do too then you know their night doesnt start until AFTER 9pm. SO I would probably say black or white your experience would have been similar. But either way for good or bad I got your back. C-ya. |
|
|
| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by SilveradoMDX
During straight line cruising and moderate cornering, up to 70 percent of torque is at the front wheels. During full throttle acceleration or spirited driving, up to 70 percent of available torque goes to the rear wheels for increased acceleration and enhanced cornering.
In addition to varying the torque front to rear, SH-AWD varies the amount of torque to the left and right rear wheels. When cornering, this GROUND-BREAKING technology overdrives the outer rear wheel, sending up to 100 percent of rear torque to that wheel to dramatically enhance the cornering, steering feel, handling and stability.
That would mean, if there are 3 wheels with traction, the 4th one turns off thus giving more distribution to which force is greater to the other 3 wheels.
DUDE: Google Acura SH-AWD, you'll get tons of related information.
It wouldn't exactly call it ground-breaking, Honda offered the Active Torque Transfer System (ATTS) in the 1997 Prelude Type SH (Super Handling). It was only Fwd but it transferred more torque to the outer wheel in a corner. The are reintroducing the concept and integrating it into the MDXs AWD system. |
|
|
| ROTORRAY |
Many years ago one of the guys I was in the service with was a car salesman prior to his being drafted (like I said it was many years ago). Anyway, one day an elderly woman came into his Cadillac showroom carrying a grocery bag, and not wearing the best of clothes. She was looking around. Even though it was a slow day none of the guys volunteered to help her, so they just let her wander around. Eventually my friend stood up to the challenge and went to talk to her. She told him she wanted a NEW Coupe DeVille, yellow, with all the goodies. He found one on the lot she liked and they went into his office to talk finances. He thought he'd lose her at this point. She then explained to him that financing the car wouldn't be necessary. Upon saying that she put her grocery bag on his desk, turned it upside down, and out came the CASH for the car. He told me it was his easiest sale. Sometimes assumptions shouldnt' be made based on first glance.
Just an interesting story and maybe a lesson for any sales folks out there. |
|
|
| crazymjb |
Hey guys, told you I'd check back. We still haven't replaced the minivan, but we've been to test drive the RDX w/ Tech, and the other day I was able to get a look at the new MDX when picking up a crush washer for the TL's oil pan.
Basically what I wan't to say is that car looks so much better in person than it does in the pics. We will likely give it a test drive, but with its close to 50K price tag, its probably not a viable option. Great car nonetheless.
Hersh, nice review, and sorry about your poor experience at the dealer.
Mike |
|
|
| jurincie |
quote:
Originally posted by crazymjb
Basically what I wan't to say is that car looks so much better in person than it does in the pics. We will likely give it a test drive, but with its close to 50K price tag, its probably not a viable option. Great car nonetheless.
I have seen several comments like the one above talking about the new MDX being so much more expensive and being almost $50k. My 2003 touring with NAV that I am trading in stickered $41,000 and most people in late 2002 when I purchased it payed full sticker.
I am purchasing a 2007 with the technology package which is comparable in options to my 2003 and the sticker is $44,165. That is a difference of $3,165 for a 4 year newer vehicle that has a lot more cool stuff on it. To me that does not seem unreasonable and it is not 50k. The only way to get near 50k is a sport with entertainment which is $48,465 and has options which have no equivalent in the 1st generation such as the self leveling lights and the sport suspension.
I know that they have been selling for significantly less than sticker the last few years, but still..... Am I missing something here? |
|
|
| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by jurincie
I have seen several comments like the one above talking about the new MDX being so much more expensive and being almost $50k. My 2003 touring with NAV that I am trading in stickered $41,000 and most people in late 2002 when I purchased it payed full sticker.
I am purchasing a 2007 with the technology package which is comparable in options to my 2003 and the sticker is $44,165. That is a difference of $3,165 for a 4 year newer vehicle that has a lot more cool stuff on it. To me that does not seem unreasonable and it is not 50k. The only way to get near 50k is a sport with entertainment which is $48,465 and has options which have no equivalent in the 1st generation such as the self leveling lights and the sport suspension.
I know that they have been selling for significantly less than sticker the last few years, but still..... Am I missing something here?
A 2006 touring w/Nav can be purchased for as low as $34.8K these days, far below the $41K you paid. |
|
|
| socalJD |
Hersch & Gatr,
I must be in the minority, as I would much rather be 'invisible' when I go window shopping at a dealership. Hell, I prolly would've been checking out the 2 chicks as well. I find that I am usually 3x more educated about the vehicle I'm cross shopping than the run-of-the-mill sales grunt, and when I'm ready to purchase it will be thru the internet sales or fleet sales manager, and not the sales grunt. Of the last 2 cars I bought in the last year, the sales grunt who got the sale is no longer at the dealership (the Sales manager will eventually hand off to a sales grunt for processing). BTW, I'm a 5'10" 200lb asian, and do not care to dress for play when I'm looking at cars . . . :cool: |
|
|
| crazymjb |
As far as sticker prices go, they aren't unreasonably far off... However, what is realistic to pay for an 06 MDX for example, vs. a new 07,which is at sticker makes all the difference, while this is a fact of life, it is dissapointing nonetheless. This is one of the situations where I think acura should have given more options. Usually I like that they dont, however, I would love the tech package, power lift gate, and suspension. Don't need the rims or dvd player. We will probably be getting an RDX anyway, still a great vehicle, but quite different.
Mike |
|
|
| BostonX |
Great review Hersh. You've reiterated many of the things I've been hearing from the automotive journalists lately and I'm getting more and more impressed by this vehicle.
Sorry but not surprised by your sales experience. I guess your day could've been worse; at least you didn't stop in at Cracker Barrel for lunch!
Now the only thing giving me pause about this new "Honda" is the $48,000 price tag. I've paid less than 40k for my last two MDX's and this is going to be a bitter pill to swallow...
Thanks again for your impressions. |
|
|
| SuperTech |
Some of you guys are a little confused about how SH-AWD works.
Not really sure how well it will be for accident avoidance, since most tend to not be accelerating hard into a turn to avoid an accident. An aggresive turn may be involved, but most people are usually hard on the brakes at the time. The new C-VSA system is going to be more of a lifesaver here.
The SH-AWD system in the MDX is already the 2nd generation of the system. The correct torque splits are that the system varies between 90/10% to 50/50% front to rear. And of up to the 50% of torque routed to the rear, it can vary 0/100% to 100/0% left to right. |
|
|
| jurincie |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
A 2006 touring w/Nav can be purchased for as low as $34.8K these days, far below the $41K you paid.
I didn't actually pay $41,000, but the majority of the people at that time did. I am sure the new one will come down in price just like the first generation did. I know I am paying a premium to be the first on my block with one. |
|
|
| BigHersh |
quote:
Originally posted by socalJD
Hersch & Gatr,
I must be in the minority, as I would much rather be 'invisible' when I go window shopping at a dealership. Hell, I prolly would've been checking out the 2 chicks as well. :cool:
Oh, I did check 'em out...
Some things are still better than cars!:D
Don't get me wrong, I don't want to get pounced on as soon as I hit the lot (Trophy Nissan, North Central Ford), I think that is a bit tacky. But I believe 20 minutes, in a dealership, with no contact is bit much. Just come out introduce yourself, and ask if you can be of assistance... Give me the opportunity to say yes or no... That's all I'm expecting...
If you think that's bad, it was worse at Park Place Lexus, and at Crest Infiniti. While I thought it was worth noting, my wife didn't take it so well (Crest Infiniti) and went and talked to a MGR. In both those cases, we'd been looking over 30-minutes. |
|
|
| letti001 |
I just returned from the a dealer today and there was one '07 MDX available and two sold . I entered and there was a receptionist who asked me if I needed help. I told I would like to look around for about ten minutes or so and then I could talk to somebody. After several minutes, I was approached and there was some interaction.
The '07 is very nice in the front seat. Good ergonomics with the NAV controller. Nice seat adjustments. Adequate leather. Relatively neutral backseats...such as in a vehicle $10-20,000 less. Not impressive. Forget about the third row. This should not be classified as a "seven-seater". It is more of a 4+1+2 seater. I think this type of SUV should be comfortable for at least four people to be traveling long trips. It does not seem to be.
I am making these comments with comparison to the interiors of Lexus and Infiniti. Sorry, but I had just left these other dealers and there is a difference.
As for buying the '07 MDX, it needs to come down a little in price before thinking about it.
Just a thought or two. |
|
|
| joneSi |
My dad and I were ignored at a Lexus dealer for about 20 minutes (complete with me climbing in and out of a LX470). But we're white. Needless to say he got the X and not the RX300 (back in 02). The acura dealer was super helpful to us, even if we were driving his old 'airport car' (you pilots out there know what I'm saying here). It was a beat up old Jeep Grand Cherokee laredo...100k plus miles and just starting to rust.
We got the service we deserved at that particular acura dealer. And we did again when we went back to order his new 07.
Back to the topic here...this is a VERY informative write up. I only have one nit picky item...I am 5'8 and its not a normal size. Trust me...I look UP at the rest of the world, lol. I'd say 5'11 to 6 foot is normal...but as you said, for those that are 5'8 the car is very big...HUGE even. Seats are awesome. I can't wait to drive it.
joneSi |
|
|
| wmquan |
quote:
Originally posted by SuperTech
... but most people are usually hard on the brakes at the time. The new C-VSA system is going to be more of a lifesaver here. ...
Agreed that SH-AWD probably isn't going to help much with emergency avoidance maneuvers (especially the shifting of torque between the left/right wheels to "push" through a turn). It seems primarily aimed at for handling "fun."
Question, though ... if someone is braking, will C-VSA disengage the stability control feature in favor of straight ABS? Toyota's VSC is like this, and Honda's previous efforts may have been too.
I know that Bosch enhanced a version of its ESP to allow for "braking inversion." E.g. if ABS was engaged but the vehicle is spinning out, it would actually release brake pressure at a specific wheel(s) to put the vehicle on a straight line again. |
|
|
| SuperTech |
quote:
Originally posted by wmquan
Agreed that SH-AWD probably isn't going to help much with emergency avoidance maneuvers (especially the shifting of torque between the left/right wheels to "push" through a turn). It seems primarily aimed at for handling "fun."
Question, though ... if someone is braking, will C-VSA disengage the stability control feature in favor of straight ABS? Toyota's VSC is like this, and Honda's previous efforts may have been too.
I know that Bosch enhanced a version of its ESP to allow for "braking inversion." E.g. if ABS was engaged but the vehicle is spinning out, it would actually release brake pressure at a specific wheel(s) to put the vehicle on a straight line again.
Yup, the SH-AWD is mainly for "fun" handling. If you're not hard on the gas, the vehicle is pretty much still FWD. It takes a little relearning to drive to train yourself to hammer the throttle through the turn in order for the rear differential to actually help you at all. Don't drive aggresive...and the MDX reverts back to its minivan roots with the front wheels just pulling the vehicle around.
The new Cooperative-VSA system has only one addition to the old VSA. If you're going through a turn and the system detects oversteer, it will first limit torque to the rear differential in an attempt to correct the oversteer before trying to intervene with the brakes on the outer wheels.
If you were out of the throttle totally and were just on the brakes, it becomes like normal ABS.
Personally, it's kind of a crude system having to brake both wheels on a side the way it does. Other stability control systems can brake individual wheels in throttle or braking situations. |
|
|
| stiles_s |
quote:
Originally posted by SuperTech
Yup, the SH-AWD is mainly for "fun" handling. If you're not hard on the gas, the vehicle is pretty much still FWD. It takes a little relearning to drive to train yourself to hammer the throttle through the turn in order for the rear differential to actually help you at all. Don't drive aggresive...and the MDX reverts back to its minivan roots with the front wheels just pulling the vehicle around.
The new Cooperative-VSA system has only one addition to the old VSA. If you're going through a turn and the system detects oversteer, it will first limit torque to the rear differential in an attempt to correct the oversteer before trying to intervene with the brakes on the outer wheels.
If you were out of the throttle totally and were just on the brakes, it becomes like normal ABS.
Personally, it's kind of a crude system having to brake both wheels on a side the way it does. Other stability control systems can brake individual wheels in throttle or braking situations.
THis is really interesting, and frankly also may confirm some of my fears. Though our Pilot (for the purposes of this conversation, let's call it an "MDX" :) ) pulls us around effectively, I absolutely hate the way the AWD/4WD feels.
Last night for example, the streets were really slick w/a recent rain. The front tires were constantly breaking loose as I'd accelerate -- from a light, up a hill, around a corner.
Rough progression seems to be:
- front tires break loose
- if only one front tire, use EDL to brake the spinning wheel and reduce power
- shift some power to the rear (sometimes abruptly)
THis is especially troubling at highway speeds in standing water. I've had hte back end break loose a few times -- spooky.
The lag between sensing slip and shifting power to the rear is significant, noticeable and annoying. I think it could be significantly improved with
- more accurate sensing of slippage
- much quicker reaction time (shifting power to rear)
- much less severity in the power shift
Does anybody know whether the new generation system improves any of the above factors? I'll definitely be test driving one in the rain.
Our current Audi (S4), and previous Audis and Subarus have really spoiled us when it comes to AWD. You can literally nail the throttle in these cars in *any* wet road situation and never break a tire loose.
PS. It rains a lot in seattle :)
Thanks,
Scott. |
|
|
| crazymjb |
I am pretty sure acura uses multi channel ABS. Is their something I am missing? I know I drive the TL very agressivly, and when I brake hard, and there is gravel or something in the road, I can feel and hear ABS kicking in on the one wheel that just began to lock up over the gravel.
Mike |
|
|
| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by stiles_s
THis is really interesting, and frankly also may confirm some of my fears. Though our Pilot (for the purposes of this conversation, let's call it an "MDX" :) ) pulls us around effectively, I absolutely hate the way the AWD/4WD feels.
Last night for example, the streets were really slick w/a recent rain. The front tires were constantly breaking loose as I'd accelerate -- from a light, up a hill, around a corner.
Rough progression seems to be:
- front tires break loose
- if only one front tire, use EDL to brake the spinning wheel and reduce power
- shift some power to the rear (sometimes abruptly)
THis is especially troubling at highway speeds in standing water. I've had hte back end break loose a few times -- spooky.
The lag between sensing slip and shifting power to the rear is significant, noticeable and annoying. I think it could be significantly improved with
- more accurate sensing of slippage
- much quicker reaction time (shifting power to rear)
- much less severity in the power shift
Does anybody know whether the new generation system improves any of the above factors? I'll definitely be test driving one in the rain.
Our current Audi (S4), and previous Audis and Subarus have really spoiled us when it comes to AWD. You can literally nail the throttle in these cars in *any* wet road situation and never break a tire loose.
PS. It rains a lot in seattle :)
Thanks,
Scott.
If you can't test a 2007 MDX right now, then go test drive an RL in the rain. The front tires of your Pilot should not break loose unless you are driving really aggressively. There is always torque sent to the rear wheels when accelerating based on acceleration rate. Ours never breaks loose during normal driving during rain or snow. Do you have the GY Integritys that everyone complians about? |
|
|
| stiles_s |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
If you can't test a 2007 MDX right now, then go test drive an RL in the rain. The front tires of your Pilot should not break loose unless you are driving really aggressively. There is always torque sent to the rear wheels when accelerating based on acceleration rate. Ours never breaks loose during normal driving during rain or snow. Do you have the GY Integritys that everyone complians about?
Apologies in advance for what may continue the thread-drift:
- no, I'm running high quality sport 255/55-18s -- it was terrible w/the OEM Integrities...
- Sure, it sends torque to the rear when it thinks it's accelerating, but it can't predict anything -- it's reactive. It doesn't know that you're about to turn a corner and accelerate up-hill in the rain. And, it's slow to react in some situations.
I'm going to talk my Dad out of the keys for his new RL and give it a shot. Actually it might be easier to test drive an MDX :) |
|
|
| BostonX |
The only time I've felt the wheels of my MDX break traction is when I've accelerated over a manhole cover or something when the road was wet.
I live in the Seattle area too and I've never felt my rear wheels break loose at highway speeds... and I drive very fast on the highways. |
|
|
| stiles_s |
quote:
Originally posted by BostonX
The only time I've felt the wheels of my MDX break traction is when I've accelerated over a manhole cover or something when the road was wet.
I live in the Seattle area too and I've never felt my rear wheels break loose at highway speeds... and I drive very fast on the highways.
Actually I realize I drive like a maniac and nobody else can repro my issues. This has been determined ad-naseum on the Pilot board. There are a few folks who "get" the differences I"m feeling between this system and something like the Audi's torsen setup. The rest of the folks think I'm nuts. So, let's just say I'm nuts :)
That said, if anybody has detail on what has really changed in the context of the sh-awd setup on the new mdx, I'd appreciate hearing it. I get that it can redistribute torque l&r in the rear -- this is cool. My key questions are around:
- steady-state torque distribution
- how quickly it reacts to slippage from the front wheels (assuming that the answer to the above question is "FWD bias")
Thanks! |
|
|
| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by SuperTech
Not really sure how well it will be for accident avoidance, since most tend to not be accelerating hard into a turn to avoid an accident. An aggresive turn may be involved, but most people are usually hard on the brakes at the time. The new C-VSA system is going to be more of a lifesaver here.
That's not promising since the CR amergency avoidance maneuver testing where the Pilot out performed the MDX was a non-VSA Pilot versus a current VSA MDX. I would expect anything labeled super-handling to outperform it's utilitarian sibling in the safety arena. |
|
|
| SuperTech |
quote:
Originally posted by stiles_s
The lag between sensing slip and shifting power to the rear is significant, noticeable and annoying. I think it could be significantly improved with
- more accurate sensing of slippage
- much quicker reaction time (shifting power to rear)
- much less severity in the power shift
Does anybody know whether the new generation system improves any of the above factors? I'll definitely be test driving one in the rain.
SH-AWD does improve on all that. The amount of torque sent to the rear is based mainy on how much throttle is demanded, not if a wheel slip is detected like the old VTM-4 setup. |
|
|
| SuperTech |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
That's not promising since the CR amergency avoidance maneuver testing where the Pilot out performed the MDX was a non-VSA Pilot versus a current VSA MDX. I would expect anything labeled super-handling to outperform it's utilitarian sibling in the safety arena.
A skilled driver can negotiate turns faster usually with all stability systems disabled. Let's not forget that the system is in fact using the brakes to slow a side down. Be it one side or both sides...you hit the brakes, you're going to slow down.
If they had swapped out test drivers for soccer moms in the test, I think the VSA equipped MDX would have won...since it would still be the vehicle that didn't have the rubber side facing the sky. |
|
|
| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by SuperTech
A skilled driver can negotiate turns faster usually with all stability systems disabled. Let's not forget that the system is in fact using the brakes to slow a side down. Be it one side or both sides...you hit the brakes, you're going to slow down.
If they had swapped out test drivers for soccer moms in the test, I think the VSA equipped MDX would have won...since it would still be the vehicle that didn't have the rubber side facing the sky.
Since both the MDX and the Pilot are primarily family haulers, aren't soccer mom test drivers appropriate? I'd like my wife and daughter to be as safe as possible. The CR avoidance-maneuver course speed is 2 mph higher for the Pilot which could be accounted for by the VSA braking but the Pilot also gets a better rating in the emergency handling category. |
|
|
| QRTLOW |
Orinially posted by BigHerch"They had the silver one connected to commercial power. Everything was on, including the beautifully installed rear DVD and the Navigation system".
How was the sound sytem? Is it dramatically different?
I went to the Tempe AZ Acura dealership last week. Bummer.... No new X's .....Salesmen/Women didn't see I was driving one if the most modified and beautiful X's on the road, (I had to park on the side). I walked the showroom and wondered around for 20 min. No approach. I'm thinking that, maybe the salespeople arn't hungry. Business has been too good. I did the same in the North Scottsdale Acura, same result. This dealership usually is on me fast.
They are probably tired of current X owners busting their chops waiting for the inventory to come in. |
|
|
| selborne |
Compared to the Bose system in my 01', the Tech 07' blows it away. The subwoofer is much better, and the addition of a front center speaker is a big plus. If you tune in a good radio station or have a well mixed CD the difference is dramatic.
"How was the sound sytem? Is it dramatically different?" |
|
|
| BigHersh |
quote:
Originally posted by QRTLOW
Orinially posted by BigHerch"They had the silver one connected to commercial power. Everything was on, including the beautifully installed rear DVD and the Navigation system".
How was the sound sytem? Is it dramatically different?
I was driving one if the most modified and beautiful X's on the road...
No, I didn't even turn the radio on... Started to, but didn't- (It was really quiet in there- didn't seem appropriate...)
OK, you can't say, " I was driving one if the most modified and beautiful X's on the road " and not provide a link to your gallery, with recent pics... |
|
|
| QRTLOW |
quote:
Originally posted by BigHersh
OK, you can't say, " I was driving one if the most modified and beautiful X's on the road " and not provide a link to your gallery, with recent pics...
Okay, you can click on my gallery button now.:12: |
|
|
| SilveradoMDX |
quote:
Originally posted by QRTLOW
Okay, you can click on my gallery button now.:12:
Hey, how did you add that to your gallery? |
|
|
| QRTLOW |
quote:
Originally posted by SilveradoMDX
Hey, how did you add that to your gallery?
Look below your post and see the buttons Profile, PM, Search, Buddy, Gallery.
Click Gallery and you can upload one at a time up to 2MB.
Have fun!:4: |
|
|
| BigHersh |
quote:
Originally posted by QRTLOW
Look below your post and see the buttons Profile, PM, Search, Buddy, Gallery.
Click Gallery and you can upload one at a time up to 2MB.
Have fun!:4:
Jeez- thanks! I'd never noticed those buttons before...
I'm an IT guy too...
I like your style... I'll probably get a spoiler for mine, and some 20's with some 275/45's on it. I, like you, prefer 5-spokes to those multi-spoke alternatives...
 |
|
|
| QRTLOW |
| Thanks! Believe it or not this one was purchased from Goodsons in Irving. Then moved to AZ where I bailed the owner out of a 4 year lease 3 years early. |
|
|
| joneSi |
quote:
Originally posted by BigHersh
Jeez- thanks! I'd never noticed those buttons before...
I'm an IT guy too...
I like your style... I'll probably get a spoiler for mine, and some 20's with some 275/45's on it. I, like you, prefer 5-spokes to those multi-spoke alternatives...
Hersh,
I'm not -normally- a fan of chrome wheels...but those are THE HOTNESS. That is a really slick lookin' X. Also diggin' the drilled/slotted rotors. Nicely done.
Steve |
|
|
| BigHersh |
Oh no, mine still looks like this...
This beauty (below) belongs to QRTLOW
I still have to get my spoiler put on. I'm on the fence about the rims because I know I'm not gonna keep this vehicle...
I just normally put rims on everything I buy... |
|
|
| one4gatr |
Well I will tell you... went to the Acura lot this weekend and looked at a black on black. Not real impressed. I know some will love and some will hate but in my opinion Acura blew it. I will admit I am impressed by the interior but that should have been addressed in '04,'05,'06. I havent driven it and dont want to. Honestly after seeing this in person it looks alot more like a Toyota Matrix or Pontiac Vibe. No sex appeal for me.
Best of luck to those who drop the 50k on this one. We will try to milk a year or two more out of our '02 and then who knows. |
|
|
| joneSi |
quote:
Originally posted by one4gatr
Well I will tell you... went to the Acura lot this weekend and looked at a black on black. Not real impressed. I know some will love and some will hate but in my opinion Acura blew it. I | | | |
