| mdxforever |
Is there a class action lawsuit, pending or otherwise, about speedometer (and thereby odometer) inaccuracy on some year models of honda vehicles ?
Recently I found a reasonably large error on the Accord - the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) and the speedometer were totally off. (you can tell I have been fooling around with that new obd reader I got). The speedometer was about 5mph higher than the vss. At 50mph that's an error of 10%. (btw what is legally the max acceptable error ? is it 5% ?)
Someone told me this is a known issue and there is a pending(?) class action lawsuit against honda. How far is this true ?
Oh btw the mdx is good. |
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| Ceenit |
I haven't heard anything about it on any of the boards I frequent.
I assuming that you are testing using the OEM supplied rim and tire size. I can see how it can get out of whack quickly with the popularity of upgrading rims and tires. |
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| drader |
| I recently upgraded the rims and tires, and took a big hit down in mileage. I wasn't expecting to, because I forked over for some very light forged wheels, and kept the weight near stock on my new 19" wheels. What I discovered was there was a big difference in diameter between the new tires and the old OEM. I don't have exact numbers right now, but the new tires were close to 29" - which is what the factory recommends - and the old tires were closer to 28". I found a brand new OEM BFG tire and even new it measures out about 1/2" smaller than the claimed size printed on it. They are lying! The difference I calculated was 4%. By simply flubbing the size of the OEM tires they make the car appear to get 4% better mileage. which means what looks like 17.4mpg is actually 16.8mpg. I also believe the soft sidewalls can flubb the effect by lowering the radius dynamically. |
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| JeffK |
Wow!
I think this is really silly.
I have stock tires and rims. I have checked my odometer on long trips and I believe it is accurate.
If you divide the gallons used into the mileage driven you have mpg.
To do this is simple: Fill up your MDX, drive it. Go to a gas station fill up again. Note the gallons used to fill up. The number of gallons into the mileage gives you miles per gallon.
JeffK |
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| G. COLTON |
quote:
Originally posted by drader
I recently upgraded the rims and tires, and took a big hit down in mileage. I wasn't expecting to, because I forked over for some very light forged wheels, and kept the weight near stock on my new 19" wheels. What I discovered was there was a big difference in diameter between the new tires and the old OEM. I don't have exact numbers right now, but the new tires were close to 29" - which is what the factory recommends - and the old tires were closer to 28". I found a brand new OEM BFG tire and even new it measures out about 1/2" smaller than the claimed size printed on it. They are lying! The difference I calculated was 4%. By simply flubbing the size of the OEM tires they make the car appear to get 4% better mileage. which means what looks like 17.4mpg is actually 16.8mpg. I also believe the soft sidewalls can flubb the effect by lowering the radius dynamically.
Do you really think that Honda/Acura is getting the tire manufacturers to lie about the real size of their tires. You think they somehow entice them to print false information on the sides of the tires.
The title of this thread drew my attention as it sounded so petty.
Listen to the people who are telling you that changing wheels and tires IS going to effect your odometer/spedometer readings AND fuel economy.
Even if the new wheel/tire combination is exactly the same diameter.circumference as the original the width also effects fuel econome. Wide tires give poorer miles per gallon. The ideal good fuel economy tire is a bicycle tire, tall and narrow.
G |
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| closetobuying05 |
Got my notice in the mail yesterday (11/30) to send my info and joing the class settlement.
No thanks. What a waste of my time and I don't wish to line a class action attorney's wallet, though I am sure he'll still get his cut no matter my lack of response.
I tossed the notice. |
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| mdxforever |
I don't think any of you really even understand what the problem is, let alone the title being petty or the content being silly.
The difference is between the actual vehicle speed sensor that senses the speed and the speedometer that indicates it. You need an obd2 scanner to read that sensor. The VSS is correct and speedometer is wrong by +5mph. There is not even the question of a different tire or rim size. Have you any idea what I am talking about ?
This causes the odometer to rake up more miles than it should.
Like I said before (if you read my original post) this is for the accord, and the VSS and the speedo on the mdx match just fine. So its not applicable to everything honda makes under the sun so dont go about bragging how accurate your's is. |
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| tech99 |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxforever
I don't think any of you really even understand what the problem is, let alone the title being petty or the content being silly.
The difference is between the actual vehicle speed sensor that senses the speed and the speedometer that indicates it. You need an obd2 scanner to read that sensor. The VSS is correct and speedometer is wrong by +5mph. There is not even the question of a different tire or rim size. Have you any idea what I am talking about ?
This causes the odometer to rake up more miles than it should.
Like I said before (if you read my original post) this is for the accord, and the VSS and the speedo on the mdx match just fine. So its not applicable to everything honda makes under the sun so dont go about bragging how accurate your's is.
I never would thought anything would happen on this, I have a 99 Odyssey and I've measured my odometer against the road side mileage markers, after driving 100 miles as per the road markers, my odometer registers 104.5 miles, I'm pretty sure the road markers are accurate, I thought of going to honda about this myself but figured they wouldn't do anything, I 'm even a tech for them. Anyway I am out of warranty anyway now but good to know |
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| oilchange |
quote:
Do you really think that Honda/Acura is getting the tire manufacturers to lie about the real size of their tires. You think they somehow entice them to print false information on the sides of the tires.
Giving the customer 5% less than what the customer paid for is important. I would not attempt to minimize or make excuses. What makes this more disturbing is that the owner can find out the issue only comparing the vehicle odometer to a measured mile or by using a special tool to check the vehicle speed sensor.
Most customers would be upset if they bought 10 gallons of gas as indicated on the gas pump and they only received 9.5 gallons. Even if the gas station were not asking the gas pump company to make the pump inaccurate on purpose, the fact remains, shortchanging the customer by 5% is still cheating the customer. Whether or not I think that Honda is asking the tire companies to lie does not change the fact that vehicles in question do not measure mileage accurately and this has real dollar consequences to the customer. |
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| JeffK |
Here is another test:
Check the odometer against a GPS navigation either external or factory installed.
The GPS will give you the mileage from point A to point B. Then see what your odometer reads.
JeffK |
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| G. COLTON |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffK
Here is another test:
Check the odometer against a GPS navigation either external or factory installed.
The GPS will give you the mileage from point A to point B. Then see what your odometer reads.
JeffK
The GPS is the most accurate check of either the odometer or the speedometer.
G |
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| shootist |
Both my MDX's have had inaccurate Odo's. While I usually disdain the class action plaintiff's bar, I'm definitely doing to participate in this one.
This is not a case of "50 cents to the plaintiffs, and $25 million for the attorneys" Honda is offering an additional 5% extension on the warranties, which I'm glad to take. (OK- the plaintiffs attorney probably gets a lot more than $25 million.)
I drive the same commute to my weekend home 104 times a year for the past 18 years. In 6 other cars it registers 112.8 miles. In both MDX's it registers 115.3 miles. No possible variation in route.
The only way you can road-verify a small discrepancy like this is to drive a ten mile marked course. I've done that. At the ten mile marker, my odometer is reading 10.1, and almost rolling over to 10.2.
Think of the impact of this overstatement on American Honda- they get 1.5% fewer warranty claims, and leases cost 1.5 % more. That's peanuts to the individual owners, but a huge windfall to Honda. |
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| Blackura |
Hmm. So my resale value when I traded was 5% too little? Will Acura send me a check for the difference?
Rhetorical question. I know better. |
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| shootist |
quote:
Originally posted by Blackura
Hmm. So my resale value when I traded was 5% too little? Will Acura send me a check for the difference?
Rhetorical question. I know better.
Don't know, but there is something about a refund of "excess mileage charges" that people may have paid (or may pay) under leases. |
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| drader |
| I stand by my post: the recommended tire size as per the manual is 4% larger from the tires that came on my car. Perhaps it is the manual that is wrong, but the 4% number is pretty damned accurate. Which - as others have pointed out - means my warranty is up 4% faster, and my mileage looks 4% better. |
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| Ceenit |
I received my legal notice on this last week. Sounds like a 5% bonus on warranty mileage for me :).
If I read correctly, participation did not require a response. A response was only necessary at this time if you did not want to participate.
On a related note, I guess that this technically means we can put slightly larger tires on the car to fill up the wheel wells. I had always shy'd away from doing this becuase I did not want to mess up my speedo/odo. Now it sounds like I would just be correcting the problem. Tire size calculator....here I come. |
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| XStatic |
We just bought a VW EOS and it is (I kid you not) 9.7% off!
So when the speedo shows 70, you are really going about 63... |
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| silroc |
hello guys
this is SHOCKING.... but you know, my truck does seem to rack up miles like crazy ....and i always just thought it was my head...
three questions i hope someone knows the answers to -
I did not get my letter, am I covered in this class action? (04 MDX)
How will it affect my lease mileage ? (is Honda officially responding?)
How much % is it off by ..... (is 9.7% true?)
many thanks |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by silroc
hello guys
this is SHOCKING.... but you know, my truck does seem to rack up miles like crazy ....and i always just thought it was my head...
three questions i hope someone knows the answers to -
I did not get my letter, am I covered in this class action? (04 MDX)
How will it affect my lease mileage ? (is Honda officially responding?)
How much % is it off by ..... (is 9.7% true?)
many thanks
It's not really shocking, it's a vehicle system tolerance that every auto manufacturer has to deal with. Honda/Acura's odometer tolerance is -1% to +3.75%. Given the tolerances involved in any manufactured system it is impossible to make it 100% accurate. Honda/Acura has changed it to +2.5 to +2.5% for 2007 as a result of this lawsuit. They are also extending warranties and lease mileage allowance by a rounded up 5%. The lawsuit covers 2002 through 2006 Hondas/Acuras (plus some 2007 Fits): Link. The result of the lawsuit is that 2002-2006 owners get a trival warranty/lease mileage allowance increase, the original two plaintiffs get a grand total of $11,000, and the laywers get $10,000,000 :rolleyes:. |
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| silroc |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
It's not really shocking, it's a vehicle system tolerance that every auto manufacturer has to deal with. Honda/Acura's odometer tolerance is -1% to +3.75%. Given the tolerances involved in any manufactured system it is impossible to make it 100% accurate. Honda/Acura has changed it to +2.5 to +2.5% for 2007 as a result of this lawsuit. They are also extending warranties and lease mileage allowance by a rounded up 5%. The lawsuit covers 2002 through 2006 Hondas/Acuras (plus some 2007 Fits): Link. The result of the lawsuit is that 2002-2006 owners get a trival warranty/lease mileage allowance increase, the original two plaintiffs get a grand total of $11,000, and the laywers get $10,000,000 :rolleyes:.
Awesome - thanks for the very informative post.
I was referring to 9.7% .... that still shocks me even though I understand your point and why it does not shock you -
Anyway, it's good to know I will get a small allowance when my lease is up.
Also, I know this may be nothing to you, but I personally dont like getting screwed - even if it is by a small amount...
many thanks !!!
ps
I still love my truck |
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| mdxforever |
two things I dont understand about this whole thing are -
1. What about other year models that have the same problem ? why are they excluded ?
2. Of what use is the warranty concession for vehicles that are already out of warranty ? |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by silroc
Awesome - thanks for the very informative post.
I was referring to 9.7% .... that still shocks me even though I understand your point and why it does not shock you -
Anyway, it's good to know I will get a small allowance when my lease is up.
Also, I know this may be nothing to you, but I personally dont like getting screwed - even if it is by a small amount...
many thanks !!!
ps
I still love my truck
The 9.7% was on a VW and that is definitely a problem. Since it is a tolerance issue, some MDXs will be at the -1% instead of the +3.75% end. But Acura is just going to settle for everyone to avoid measuring every vehicle. However, the new tolerance still means that a new MDX could read 2.5% high (or 2.5% low) - there is no way to make it exact. You actually WILL be getting screwed if you buy another Honda/Acura - by the lawyers fees -they will need to be added to the cost of future vehicles in order to maintain profit margin. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxforever
two things I dont understand about this whole thing are -
1. What about other year models that have the same problem ? why are they excluded ?
2. Of what use is the warranty concession for vehicles that are already out of warranty ?
1. The lawsuit is against Honda/Acura AND the odometer manufacturer. I would guess that the model years included coincide with the years that that particular manufacturer made Honda/Acura's odometers with the "problem".
2. If you had any repairs made in the extended warranty period (between 50,000 and 52,500 miles) that were not covered, then you can get a reimbursement. I would imagine that not many people will fall into that category. |
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| Thirsty |
| Put larger tires on your vehicle and reap the benefits of extending your warranty. |
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| DougsMDX |
I got my notice in the mail as well (previous Odyssey owner) ........
For what we pay for the Acura product, I expect the odometer to function correctly.
I'll be participating in this .................. |
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| Mahereb |
As we all know. the recommended tire size for 2001-2006 MDX is 235/65-17. Normal spec for such size is 29.1 inch in overall diameter and 9.5" in width (719 Revs per mile). However, by using the Cross Terrain tire, we are adding more to the odometer problem since the overall diameter is for such tire is only 28.9" (726 Revs per mile).
Having said that, I think by using size 245/65-17 you will get a new overall diameter of 29.5" (706 Revs per mile) and 9.8" width.
that is a millage improvement of 2.5% which will take you right within the acceptable tolerance of +/- 4%.
In addition, a .3" extra in width over the recommended size is not a big of a deal. In fact, it give your MDX a better tire look, more stability and a little less gas mileage which will have no much effect due to the gain in actual mileage. |
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| G. COLTON |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
The 9.7% was on a VW and that is definitely a problem. Since it is a tolerance issue, some MDXs will be at the -1% instead of the +3.75% end. But Acura is just going to settle for everyone to avoid measuring every vehicle. However, the new tolerance still means that a new MDX could read 2.5% high (or 2.5% low) - there is no way to make it exact. You actually WILL be getting screwed if you buy another Honda/Acura - by the lawyers fees -they will need to be added to the cost of future vehicles in order to maintain profit margin.
Now there is a point that passes right over the head of 99 44/100% of the population. There is no free lunch. Somebody is going to pay. If that did not happen than a great many companies would be going out of business and then listen to the gnashing of teeth.
G |
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| rerodgers |
Well, I got the notice as well (2004 MDX) and there is nothing to do to join. I have a four year 60K mileage lease so I am interested to see what happend when I turn my car in over my 60K mileage limit. based on my calcuations, I will be about 63K when I turn my car in which means that my extra 3K miles driven will be covered by the 5% mileage allowance which translates into a $450 savings to me (3,000 x .15 per mile).
I don't know about the rest of you, but saving $450K works for me and I am happy someone did something about it. |
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