| uchylisa |
Hi everyone. I am a new member but have been lurking around here for about a month now as we have been doing research on purchasing a new vehicle.
Our family has now outgrown my '94 Honda Accord which I have owned for the past 13 years and had really no mentionable problems with. We have a baby and a 9 year old and a Standard Poodle. My son is involved in many sporting events and often likes to give friends rides home from games/practices which means we need to make a move from a sedan to a SUV with an optional 3rd row seat.
I think I have narrowed it down to the '07 MDX or the '07 Pilot. I will be mainly using it for running around town, though we may do some camping/fishing on the weekends with the dog!
I Love the features of the MDX and feel that since I keep my cars so long it may be nice to have all those features. My other fear is that all those features in 10 years may start breaking and cost me a FORTUNE to fix. The other BIG consideration is Price. My husband says I can have which ever I want, so it's not that we can't afford the MDX, just wondering if it's a practical thing to spend $10000 more for a family car. I have stopped working since the baby came so having the extra $10,000 in savings is appealing as well. Here's what I like and dislike about both.... I'm looking for your comments and advise. thanks!
Pilot Pros
1. Price
2. Drives like my Accord
3. Great Visibility, a lot of light in car
4. 2nd row seats adjusts forward and back(good for car seat!)
5. Access to 3rd row seat from either side.
6. Did I mention Price? We could nearly buy it outright.
7. Lots of places to put my "stuff"
Pilot Cons
1. No hands free blue tooth link for cel phone
2. Less luxurious interior. ( but I have kids)
3. Dislike the feel of the shifter (but guess I'll only use that twice on each trip really.
4. Only 3 year/ 36,000 mile warranty
MDX Pros
1. Amazingly comfortable and quiet ride (did I mention I have not so quiet kids?).
2. Beautiful interior and exterior.
3. Love the handsfree bluetooth option (and I happen to have one of the sony/erickson phones that the phonebook option works with) And the Oregon legislature is currently debating banning cel phone use except handsfree in cars.
4. GPS linked solar sensing Climate Control system is very savvy.
5. Memory mirrors and seats.
6. Towing capacity if my husband gets a boat (though he has a Tundra)
7. 4 yr 50,0000 mile warranty (which will be 4 years for me since I barely drive 10000 miles per year)
MDX Cons
1. Price (we wouldn't have it paid off for about 3.5 years :) )
2. 2nd row seat is not adjustable.
3. You must get into the 3rd row seat only from passenger side.
4. I read here that the software on the handfree system is buggy.
5. Lots of automatic gadgets to break if I own the car for 10+ years.
6. Feels a little dark in the back seats (serious window tinting not really needed in dreary grey Oregon) |
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| phins2rt |
| I think Honda/Acura has really differentiated the MDX from the Pilot with the 2nd Gen (at least on price). I am debating this too as my price difference would be close to 18K (Pilot EX-L vs MDX Sport/Ent). I think it comes down to sport/luxury versus utility. If you really need the utility, the Pilot is the way to go. Best bang for the buck pretty much in this segment. The MDX adds features that are more esoteric. SH-AWD is nice but the AWD on the Pilot is probably more than adequate for most driving. Most of the other features add to the driving experience but are not "neccessary". It will be interesting to see if Acura can demand this increase in price over the long haul. The Pilot is due for a redesign soon, isn't it? If I was in your situation, I would buy the Pilot and invest the 10K difference! Good luck! |
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| dj-mdx2 |
I think you've pretty much delineated the pros and cons of each vehicle. Both are extremely capable SUVs in their particular segments. Remember though that the 07 MDX is a redesign, and may manifest with first model year issues later on. In contrast, the current model Pilot is tried and true and has been catching up with the accessory/luxury segment (i.e. NAV, leather, interior). Next year might be different, and might even include BT capability.
If price is not an issue, then you choose whatever your heart desires. Both vehicles look like they will meet your family's needs. You might want to post in the hondapilot.org forum as well, since your replies may be biased in favor of the MDX here. |
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| JL_SS |
We've owned a 2003 MDX, 2004 AWD Toyota Sienna, and a 2005 Pilot. We have the Pilot now for a family vehicle, after having multiple serious problems with both the MDX and Sienna - our experiences with the MDX and Sienna were atypical so I won't negatively comment on quality. But my wife's first choice for a family vehicle after owning all three is the Sienna for it's versatility and hauling capacity as well as the auto sliding doors. She says that if the Odyssey is ever released in AWD form, then she will be the first one in line at the dealership (we won't get another Sienna because our local Toyo dealer employs incompetent techs).
As far as the Pilot vs MDX, I wouldn't spring for the 1st gen MDX over the Pilot again because there was not enough differentation between the two. The one problem I had was the ease in which the MDX interior was scratched. With only 1 child and 1 dog, the interior looked about 4 years old after only a year. The Pilot is a little better but I paid a lot less so I don't really care all that much. There is a thread regarding the 2007s interior and the ease at which it scratches also, so apparently Acura has not made it any more durable. Since the new MDX is even more expensive, I would probably decide against it as a family vehicle.
The powertrain warranties are actually longer than the periods you listed for both the Pilot and the MDX. The Pilot is 5yr/60K and the MDX is 6yr/70K. The Pilot will be redesigned next year (2009 model year). Good luck with whichever you choose. |
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| SullyC5er |
| Personally, the upscale brands (Acura, Lexus, Infiniiti, etc) are only worth the $$$ if you have the disposable income that the price difference doesn't mean that much. Anyone on a budget shouldn't pay the extra. For years, while raising a family (I am a GHOF now) I would not buy any of these vehicles...I had better things to do with the $$$. |
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| KSMDX |
Forever my wife wanted a Honda Ody. But, she turned 40 and I said, OK we can get the the mini-van. And with any good mid-life crisis she wanted something more upscale and sporty, thus the MDX.
And I am not sure if there are any more saftey issues between a MDX and Pilot. Either way you end up with a great vehicle. |
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| Luke |
If you can wait bit longer then I'd wait for the brand new Pilot '08 model which will be announced before end of the year (not sure exact date but I expect announcement within next months).
The new highlander will be available July (and pretty bland styling imo so I went definitely for the MDX). |
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| trixie |
Another drawback with the Pilot is that it will probably start to look dated in a couple of years. The current generation is in its final year and the 08 will be all new, based on the MDX platform. If you think that notion borders on ostentatious, you may be correct. However, you're spending big bucks and if you wanted to look dated, you'd be driving a 69 Z28.
Have you considered a used MDX. I would guess that slightly used 06 models are out there in the same ballpark as a new Pilot.
I too keep vehicles for a long time. However, I tend to baby my vehicles and wear and tear is not a major issue. If you're the type of driver that puts your vehicle through a regular beating, the MDX may not be your best bet.
I don't worry much about gadget breakage. I purchased the Honda product so that I would not need to worry about stuff falling apart. If I drove a Cadillac, I'd worry. If I drove a Cadillac, I would lease. |
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| uchylisa |
I would be interested in a 05 or 06 mDX but I can't find any in my area. I've been combing the internet, paper, nickle adds, truck trader and the newest I've seen is 04. I want something with LOW miles and some warranty left if I buy a used car.
Ebay has lots, but I'd have to goto Huston to look at them :) |
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| gurneyeagle |
I can sympathize with your situation. Been there, done that.
In my opinion, for what's it's worth, I'd wait for the '08 Pilot. It will be much more like the new MDX.
If you really can't wait, I'd still go with the Pilot. You are still in, and will be for a while, "car pool" mode. Add in the dog, and you have to think if $10K is worth spending on a vehicle, that by most accounts, will probably do some tough duty.
Our MDX replaced an '01 Odyssey, and there is no way I would have spent an extra $10K on what became a bus for Scout trips, Home Depot runs, etc.
Get through the young child stage before ponying up the big bucks. Keep in mind this is just one cheapskate's opinion. You and the wife are the ones that will need to live with the decision. The good part is that you really can't go wrong.
Best of Luck!
gurney |
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| uchylisa |
Honda is redesigning the Accord for '08 and the Pilot will be released Fall of '08 as a 2009 model. There is NO WAY I can wait that long. Have you ever tried to install a car seat in a 1994 accord. I want to cry every time I have to take it out and put it back in. Which seems to be more often than not these days.
Plus then I'd have to work through the tweaking of the new features as I would if I got the 07 MDX.
I think I'd be best if I didn't set foot into the Acura dealer again and concentrated on the Pilot.
The more I look a the photos of the center console in the MDX the more I picture the "appliance garage" looking cover of the cup holders getting filled up with crumbs and dust or worse yet it being open all the time and a place to store my JUNK.
I can get a clip on Blue tooth receiver for my cel phone for the Pilot and I'll be close to features, just not to the luxury, but in 12 years, I'll only have one kid, NO DOG and be ready for my Luxury vehicle prob a TL. :D Thanks everyone! |
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| phins2rt |
| I was under the impression that Honda recently let you order both the RES and the NAV together on the Pilot. This is not the case so I am no longer considering the Pilot.:( At least they are differentiating it a little from the MDX. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by phins2rt
I was under the impression that Honda recently let you order both the RES and the NAV together on the Pilot. This is not the case so I am no longer considering the Pilot.:( At least they are differentiating it a little from the MDX.
Nope, one or the other has to be aftermarket. Kinda ridiculous since most, if not all, of it's competition offers both. Maybe they'll catch up with the redesign now that the MDX offers significant differentiation. |
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| justG0 |
When I had to make a similar decision back, it basically came down to - if I did not get the 07 MDX, would I keep regretting that :confused:
Even though I did not really "need" an MDX (a minivan or Pilot would have sufficed), the answer to the above question was yes, so I had to get the MDX - I am so glad that I did :2: |
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| drjay |
For me, it's the MDX hands down. In your situation (and I think you've outlined the pros and cons very well), it sounds likes the Pilot is your best best if you can't get your hands on a used MDX.
Good luck. Let us know what you decide to do. |
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| vapors |
Just because the 07 X looks sporty doesn't mean that it is not "useful." For example, I have two kids, one of which plays the harp of all things. Believe it or not, my daughter's 6 ft tall, 80 lb concert grand harp fits in my 07 X easier than my wife's 05 Sequoia. I just fold down the second row of seats and it slides right in. In my wife's Sequoia, we have to take out the rear seats AND the center console in the second row to fit her harp in. Each of the seats weighs about 60 lbs, which is difficult for my wife to handle herself. Believe it or not, neither vehicle will fit both the harp AND my kids, so we end up taking two cars to concerts. I expect this from a mid-size SUV like my X but not from a full-size SUV like my Sequoia. My 02 Ody had more storage space than the sequoia.
If you want the sportier look, definitely go for the X. The Pilot looks very "pedestrian" to me. The BT and HFL are very nice and the SH-AWD is amazing in the snow (and rain for you). . . . .better than my 02 X. There are little things that you might not think about too, like the rear LED lights. Those should not burn out for many years, providing extra safety and lower maintenance costs. I really like the rear backup camera too for the kids. I am not sure if the backup camera is an option on the Pilot. Anyone know? |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by vapors
I am not sure if the backup camera is an option on the Pilot. Anyone know?
Yes, it comes with the Navi. |
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| fosters.2 |
| I would go with the MDX in a hearbeat. I have three kids that I haul around in mine and it doesn't get dirty upfront...but it does become a mess in the backseat if I don't stay on top of it. In my opinion if you are going to keep a vehicle for 10 years you should buy what you want and enjoy it. I spend A LOT of time in my car and for that reason I buy something I will like spending that much time in. If you were to say you would only keep it a year or two then I would say go for the Pilot but this is a long term decision so you might as well go for the better car. And get it loaded how you want. They say you never miss what options you did get but you often miss the options you didn't get. |
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| uchylisa |
I thought I'd decided on the Pilot, but now that the stock market took a dive I have to wait until it recovers anyway. (our $30K downpayment was coming from some stock options that have now dropped considerably). So that gives me more time to think about it all.
We aren't in dire need of a new vehicle I just WANT a new vehicle. My husband keeps saying if I really want the MDX, I should just wait until our Truck is paid off (next FEB) and we'll get the MDX. But baseball season is just around the corner and it'd be so much easier in a Pilot or MDX and not my accord!
I am acutally looking into driving an 05 or 06 mdx and seeing what I think of that. I have some issues with the visiblility our of the new little window of the 07 and I don't really like that shiny black fake wood on the dash. Does anyone know if the older models have a 2nd row seat that slides forward and back? I think that's a great feature of the pilot, I was surprised they didn't have it in the MDX especially since they have to have that one side slide forward anyway to provide access to the 3rd row seats. |
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| ROTORRAY |
| MDX isn't worth $50K, no matter how much folks say it is. Look at the Mazda CX-9 or the new offerings from GM. Save some $$$. Face it..you're not going to keep it for 15 years anyway. Lots of good alternatives out there. My problems with Acuira service make my next choice a no brainer....NOT Acura! |
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| Luke |
quote:
Originally posted by ROTORRAY
MDX isn't worth $50K, no matter how much folks say it is. Look at the Mazda CX-9 or the new offerings from GM. Save some $$$. Face it..you're not going to keep it for 15 years anyway. Lots of good alternatives out there. My problems with Acuira service make my next choice a no brainer....NOT Acura!
50K? You mean 40K I assume... You do get at least 2K off and in most areas more (base starts under 40K).
The Mazda CX-9 is not a luxury SUV so compare it to a Honda pilot (which will be renewed). That said add comparable options to Mazda and you end up with 40K as well.
If you don't want to spend too much I also would look at the new Highlander. It does allow 2nd row to slide. See http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/mini...nder/index.html
I have no problems with Acura Service so far but I'll find out... At least I do get full 5 years warranty (higher than Honda). |
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| ROTORRAY |
| ..that the term "luxury" is open to interpretation. Once the newness has worn off ANY vehicle becomes "transportation" from A to B. And when the red light runner broadsides any "luxury" vehicle they all end up at the local Pik-and-pull next to the Yugos and Fords. Are cushier seats "luxury"? 300 hp? Are you paying more so others look at your mode of transportation in "admiration"? You can get a Lexus RX model and have "luxury" or you can get the similar Toyo Highlander, upon which the RX is based, for THOUSANDS less. Personally, I never bought a car based on its "luxury." Better engineering and reliability were a couple of my reasons for getting what I got. Spending thousands on perceived "luxury" never entered my mind. But, that's what makes the world go 'round. If you're happy with your choice then you have made a good choice. |
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| Luke |
quote:
Originally posted by ROTORRAY
..that the term "luxury" is open to interpretation. Once the newness has worn off ANY vehicle becomes "transportation" from A to B. And when the red light runner broadsides any "luxury" vehicle they all end up at the local Pik-and-pull next to the Yugos and Fords. Are cushier seats "luxury"? 300 hp? Are you paying more so others look at your mode of transportation in "admiration"? You can get a Lexus RX model and have "luxury" or you can get the similar Toyo Highlander, upon which the RX is based, for THOUSANDS less. Personally, I never bought a car based on its "luxury." Better engineering and reliability were a couple of my reasons for getting what I got. Spending thousands on perceived "luxury" never entered my mind. But, that's what makes the world go 'round. If you're happy with your choice then you have made a good choice.
You're saying you're paying for the image and not for luxury stuff. Not true (I especially didn't buy it for image?!). If we're talking about German cars ok... (Q7 I looked at is at least 50K).
Please run some quotes through edmunds or autos.msn.com and you'll see you end up with the same price:
- RX AWD *starts* at 39K
- A loaded 4WD highlander is close to 40K with comparable features.
- Honda pilot AWD costs 36K with navi (so only 4K less and still less features).
I would have bought the '08 Highlander but I hate the bland design (and it's expensive compared what you get). |
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| ROTORRAY |
| Mercedes Benz may be "luxury" in your mind but they now have the WORST reliability rating. I guess you'll look good sitting in the dealer's service waiting area. When I see a BMer or Merz I just think that the owner spends a lot for the car and maintenance. If he's/she's got the bux go for it. Personally, I'll take my 13% investment returns rather than "luxury" vehicle depreciation. |
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| justG0 |
quote:
Originally posted by ROTORRAY
..that the term "luxury" is open to interpretation.
Nothing incorrect about what you say here. One can actually look at MDX and compared to say a X5, say that it is really underpriced.
Basically it does not make sense to compare "luxury" Acura MDX to "value" Honda Pilot or CX-9. Nobody really needs a luxury SUV like MDX or for that matter I would say 90% of the people who buy a Honda Pilot don't really need a SUV. People should buy the cheapest and most reliable car that will take them from Point A to Point B or maybe take public transportation :eek:
But that's not how it works in a capitalist society. People have choices and if they want to spend their money - good for them. I know I did. And compared to the money I spent on the MDX, the joy that I now get driving it is priceless :4: |
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| Luke |
quote:
Originally posted by ROTORRAY
Mercedes Benz may be "luxury" in your mind but they now have the WORST reliability rating. I guess you'll look good sitting in the dealer's service waiting area. When I see a BMer or Merz I just think that the owner spends a lot for the car and maintenance. If he's/she's got the bux go for it. Personally, I'll take my 13% investment returns rather than "luxury" vehicle depreciation.
A car is never a good investment (with extreme exceptions perhaps). If that's the concern buy a used (small) car. I only have 1 car and I don't buy a new car every 4 years or so.
Luxury is not related to reliability and not sure anyone assumes that.
It seems you're implying that the MDX will not be reliable. But maybe I misunderstood. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by Luke
Luxury is not related to reliability and not sure anyone assumes that.
It seems you're implying that the MDX will not be reliable. But maybe I misunderstood.
Actually there have been studies that show the perceived reliability of luxury vehicles is a lot higher than actual reliablilty. For the Japanese brands perceived reliability equals actual and for US manufacturers perceived reliability is a lot lower than actual.
To me it sounds like he is implying that the depreciation of the MDX (not the reliability) will be higher than a non-luxury vehicle (e.g. Pilot). Although the MDX has typically held it's value very well, given the current market, gas prices, the price increase, and trade prices that have been quoted here and on the Pilot site, the MDX does not appear to be holding it's value as well these days. |
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| Luke |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
Actually there have been studies that show the perceived reliability of luxury vehicles is a lot higher than actual reliablilty. For the Japanese brands perceived reliability equals actual and for US manufacturers perceived reliability is a lot lower than actual.
To me it sounds like he is implying that the depreciation of the MDX (not the reliability) will be higher than a non-luxury vehicle (e.g. Pilot). Although the MDX has typically held it's value very well, given the current market, gas prices, the price increase, and trade prices that have been quoted here and on the Pilot site, the MDX does not appear to be holding it's value as well these days.
Of course the absolute dollar value in depeciation will be higher for the MDX (% wise it may not be that bad).
But then again the depreciation of the Pilot will be higher than a CRV or Civic (in absolute $). Edmunds.com does have a true cost to own where you can see the entire picture. It's always a trade-off between many factors.
By the way I'm certainly one of the few (it seems) that wished the MDX would have come with a smaller cheaper and more fuel efficient engine. But that's unfortunately where the market is heading so far. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by Luke
Of course the absolute dollar value in depeciation will be higher for the MDX (% wise it may not be that bad).
But then again the depreciation of the Pilot will be higher than a CRV or Civic (in absolute $). Edmunds.com does have a true cost to own where you can see the entire picture. It's always a trade-off between many factors.
By the way I'm certainly one of the few (it seems) that wished the MDX would have come with a smaller cheaper and more fuel efficient engine. But that's unfortunately where the market is heading so far.
Of course I meant %, not absolute. Edmunds data takes quite a while to reflect market changes and is always way behind reality. Given the new design, all Edmunds can do is project the % depreciation that goes into the "true cost to own" calculation based on the old design. Since the price hike pushed into a different market, that may have significant error. My favorite fairy tale is Edmunds "True market value".
Reducing the engine size doesn't always result in better mpg for the same size vehicle. A good example is the RAV4 V6 versus the available 4 cylinder - the 4cyl's epa mpg is 23/27 while the V6 is 21/28. And the V6 provides significantly better performance. The reason that the mpg is so close is that the smaller engine works a lot harder to keep up with traffic. The CRV's real world mpg is actually close to a Pilot's.
On the other hand, the next big push is diesel with significantly higher mpg for equivalent power levels. |
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| Luke |
I didn't know the V6 is slightly more efficient for the RAV4 for highway (but !0% worse in city). Pretty unusual. But point taken may not always have a huge impact. Still VCM might be a nice new option next year... Or even a Hybrid (I don't care for the extra battery space it would take in a SUV)
I'm not a fan of diesel and you won't save much since diesel is more expensive here in the US than regular. Especially with the ULSD diesels coming out it will be very expensive (initially). And even that fuel is not quite that clean (but much better than before, granted).
The CRV real mileage is much better than the Pilot (see truedelta and fueleconomy.gov). The Pilot is surprisingly rated exactly the same as the MDX by EPA (4WD).
Seems I changed topic:-). Sorry about that. |
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| SilveradoMDX |
2007 Pilot
4WD EX-L with Honda Satellite-Linked Navigation System™ Automatic Transmission
Base MSRP*: $35,445
Destination & Handling: $595
MSRP including selected accessories: $37,659
Selected Accessories (installation costs not included):
EXTERIOR [Edit]
Crossbars $185
Chrome Side Steps $650
Rear Splash Guards $55
Moonroof Visor $139
Wheel Locks $54
INTERIOR [Edit]
Auto D/n Mirror Base Kit $229
Auto D/n Mirror Attachment Kit $59
Cargo Net $49
ELECTRONICS [Edit]
Security System $199
At this price, its the base 07 MDX.
I guess for me, its either the MDX 07 or the Mazda CX-9. The Mazda CX-9 Grand Touring with RES/NAV and accessories what you will find with the standard MDX package will cost you $40,225 MSRP. That's MSRP which is almost relevant to the 07 MDX base model.
When it comes to saving money, the Mazda CX-9 is clearly the winner. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by Luke
I didn't know the V6 is slightly more efficient for the RAV4 for highway (but !0% worse in city). Pretty unusual. But point taken may not always have a huge impact. Still VCM might be a nice new option next year... Or even a Hybrid (I don't care for the extra battery space it would take in a SUV)
I'm not a fan of diesel and you won't save much since diesel is more expensive here in the US than regular. Especially with the ULSD diesels coming out it will be very expensive (initially). And even that fuel is not quite that clean (but much better than before, granted).
The CRV real mileage is much better than the Pilot (see truedelta and fueleconomy.gov). The Pilot is surprisingly rated exactly the same as the MDX by EPA (4WD).
Seems I changed topic:-). Sorry about that.
It's not unusual at all - a small engine can't pull a 4000 lb vehicle all that efficiently. VCM has been in the Pilot and it is good for EPA estimated increases of 1 mpg city and 2 mpg hwy, so that's not going to help much. Real life mpg reported on the HondaPilot site shows no real increase at all. Most manufacturers are headed towards importing their European Diesel variants to the USA because they are much more mpg efficient.
I looked up the European CRV not too long ago and I posted the exact numbers on the Pilot site, but if I remember correctly, the smaller displacment diesel did 0-60 as fast as the US gas version, and got 60% better mpg. Right now Diesel is 20% higher than regular gas. That's still a huge fuel savings. They are working on cleaner versions to import to the US.
I've owned both a CRV and Pilot. The CRV got a few mpg more than Pilot - it was constantly in the high revs to keep up with traffic, making it get far less mpg than it's EPA estimate. If people are getting far better mileage, then they are probably impeding traffic, rather than keeping up with it and likely not driving with A/C.
The Pilot is rated at the same mpg because Acura did improve the efficiency of the 2007 MDX while upping the HP. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by SilveradoMDX
2007 Pilot
4WD EX-L with Honda Satellite-Linked Navigation System™ Automatic Transmission
Base MSRP*: $35,445
Destination & Handling: $595
MSRP including selected accessories: $37,659
Selected Accessories (installation costs not included):
EXTERIOR [Edit]
Crossbars $185
Chrome Side Steps $650
Rear Splash Guards $55
Moonroof Visor $139
Wheel Locks $54
INTERIOR [Edit]
Auto D/n Mirror Base Kit $229
Auto D/n Mirror Attachment Kit $59
Cargo Net $49
ELECTRONICS [Edit]
Security System $199
At this price, its the base 07 MDX.
I guess for me, its either the MDX 07 or the Mazda CX-9. The Mazda CX-9 Grand Touring with RES/NAV and accessories what you will find with the standard MDX package will cost you $40,225 MSRP. That's MSRP which is almost relevant to the 07 MDX base model.
When it comes to saving money, the Mazda CX-9 is clearly the winner.
You are adding stuff that does not come standard on the base MDX (side steps/etc) and you chose a Navi Pilot which the base MDX does not have - so your comparison is not correct. You can also purchase that Pilot at invoice minus the holdback and a rebate fairly easily. The $1500 rebate is gone for the moment because it just ended , but it will be back, possibly even larger. So you can buy that Pilot for significantly less compared to a base MDX. |
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| Luke |
Well bottom line though is that the Pilot is not really (much) cheaper if you would get similar equipment. If you don't want all that equipment (leather, sunroof, heated seats....), sure you don't need to buy an Acura. But I like the longer warranty which is an added plus.
By the way in Europe you definitely get CRV/RAV4 with smaller engines and much better mileage.
I just checked the CRV 2.0i VTEC 4cyl and it gets 23/35mpg (not fast but as if anyone can drive fast often here in the US). It's not a diesel so it could be done...
Also the European RAV4 is similar also with a 2.0i VVT-i engine: 22/33mpg...
That said here in the US most buy bigger vehicles and therefore you get heavier vehicles. But I'm sure they could get more efficient smaller engines if they wanted to like Europe (especially sedans and small SUV). |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by Luke
Well bottom line though is that the Pilot is not really (much) cheaper if you would get similar equipment. If you don't want all that equipment (leather, sunroof, heated seats....), sure you don't need to buy an Acura. But I like the longer warranty which is an added plus.
By the way in Europe you definitely get CRV/RAV4 with smaller engines and much better mileage.
I just checked the CRV 2.0i VTEC 4cyl and it gets 23/35mpg (not fast but as if anyone can drive fast often here in the US). It's not a diesel so it could be done...
Also the European RAV4 is similar also with a 2.0i VVT-i engine: 22/33mpg...
That said here in the US most buy bigger vehicles and therefore you get heavier vehicles. But I'm sure they could get more efficient smaller engines if they wanted to like Europe (especially sedans and small SUV).
It depends on your definition of much. If you pay invoice for both an MDX with Navi and a Pilot EX-L Navi, plus get the holdback and a $1500 incentive for the Pilot, there is a $10K difference. And the Pilot will have leather seats , moonroof, and heated seats. And I can purchase a 6 year/80K HondaCare extended warranty for $750 bringing the difference to $9.25K.
Here are US versus UK CRV specs from actual tests:
US (auto/AWD): 2.3L Gas, 166 HP/5800 RPM, 161 lb-ft/4200 RPM, 21 combined mpg, 0-60 in 10 secs.
UK (Auto/AWD): 2.0L Petrol, 150HP/6200 RPM, 140 lb-ft/4200 RPM, 28.5 US adjusted combined mpg, 0-60 in 12.0 secs.
UK (Manual/AWD) 2.2L Diesel, 140HP/4000 RPM 251 lb-ft/2000 RPM, 36.3 US adjusted combined mpg, 0-60 in 10 secs.
The Diesel results are for a manual and the CRV does not offer a US manual to compare. However, a check of the Element shows that Honda's small SUV auto transmission gets better mpg than it's manual, so it is conservative to use the manual results. Around here Diesel is 10% higher than regular, but the mpg difference noted above for the equivalent performing US/Auto and UK/Manual is approx 70% - more than making up for the higher diesel price.
Given that 1) a diesel will not have the price penalty of a hybrid, 2) modern diesels are quiet and smooth running, 3) clean diesels will pass US emmisions, 4) a diesel can get better mpg than a smaller underperforming engine, and 5) a diesel can provide equivalent power for that better mpg - I know which one I'd rather drive. There is a reason that most manufacturers are designing diesel variants and Honda is working on a V6 Diesel. |
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| Luke |
You can get the Pilot so cheap because it's in the last model year. I'm sure you will not be able to get much off MSRP for the '08 model once it comes out. Also you will get steadily better price for the MDX once it's less new.
Don't get me wrong, if I you like the current Pilot model you can save good amount of money especially if you don't need all the options of the MDX. I waited for the '08 highlander but I hate the bland design.
Almost all current European diesels do not meet US requirements (worse is that only in the last few years Europe started to require particle filter as it took forever to prove diesel particles were causing cancer).
The new bluetec will be clean enough but requires a new type of diesel which will be an at least an additional 20% for years to come. Also it will require additives to remove bad particles at your oil service which is currently point of dispute for the EPA...
Also you do pay little bit more for diesels so in my case it wouldn't be cheaper since I don't drive that much).
That said I know things would be much easier not even buying a heavy SUV (which is never very fuel efficient compared to a car).:)
Strange enough according to the Dutch and German site I see different technical specifications (I speak both languages fluently).
Combined mileage for the CRV 4WD is 29mpg (and 10.2 sec 0-60).
Formula I use is to convert to mpg: (100/(liters/100km) ) / .42
See this link: http://honda.nl/tmppdf/HONDA_CR-V_[...gegevens_nl.pdf
The 1st and 2nd numbers are manual versus automatic (acceleration is certainly way slower with automatic). |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by Luke
You can get the Pilot so cheap because it's in the last model year. I'm sure you will not be able to get much off MSRP for the '08 model once it comes out. Also you will get steadily better price for the MDX once it's less new.
Don't get me wrong, if I you like the current Pilot model you can save good amount of money especially if you don't need all the options of the MDX. I waited for the '08 highlander but I hate the bland design.
Almost all current European diesels do not meet US requirements (worse is that only in the last few years Europe started to require particle filter as it took forever to prove diesel particles were causing cancer).
The new bluetec will be clean enough but requires a new type of diesel which will be an at least an additional 20% for years to come. Also it will require additives to remove bad particles at your oil service which is currently point of dispute for the EPA...
Also you do pay little bit more for diesels so in my case it wouldn't be cheaper since I don't drive that much).
That said I know things would be much easier not even buying a heavy SUV (which is never very fuel efficient compared to a car).:)
Strange enough according to the Dutch and German site I see different technical specifications (I speak both languages fluently).
Combined mileage for the CRV 4WD is 29mpg (and 10.2 sec 0-60).
Formula I use is to convert to mpg: (100/(liters/100km) ) / .42
See this link: http://honda.nl/tmppdf/HONDA_CR-V_[...gegevens_nl.pdf
The 1st and 2nd numbers are manual versus automatic (acceleration is certainly way slower with automatic).
I wasn't crazy about the 08 Highlander 2nd row seating arrangement. The 2nd row is essentially a 2 seater that will accomodate a 3rd person uncomfortably - essentially making you use the third row to carry 4 passengers comfortably.
Mercedes is currently selling bluetec versions of some models that are only 45 state legal. Quite a few manufacturers will have 50 state legal diesels in the near future: Link. Honda is the only claiming it can do it without urea injection.
My UK data came from a UK based auto site that actually tested the CRV and not data from Honda. I did convert the UK gallons to US gallons. |
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| uchylisa |
Wow what a lively conversation I've sparked.
Just to update you on what I'm currently doing. Our stock options are rebounding better than we thought. But I've found a guy who buys lease returns directly from Honda in Seattle and Sacremento. He has an 05 MDX tourning with navi and RES with 25K miles for $33K. This is about what we'd pay for a new Pilot if I added on the aftermarket RES. It still has half of the manufacturer's wananty on it and as far as I can see it has many of the features I'd be missing out on in the Pilot. I'm thinking this may be a good option for me, especially since I'm terribly fond of the new black shiny fake wood in the new MDX and I'm quite bothered by the visiblity out the small back side windows (I'm only 5'3" and now matter how I adjust the seat I see headrest when I look over my shoulder to change lanes). Does anyone know if they 05 RES had the 110 electrcial plug in like the 07 does? I'm hoping to go look at this car this weekend!!
I'll keep you all posted. |
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| phins2rt |
| $33K seems high. Weren't new 06s going for around $38K equipped like this? |
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| uchylisa |
| Edmonds price from a private party for this vehicle with the low 25000 miles is $34K and from a dealer $37.5K. Looks like the MSRP for a new 06 with nav and res was 44,200 with an invoice of $39800. I can't find the MSRP and Ivoice prices for the 05 models. I assume they'd be a little less. |
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| mz28 |
quote:
Originally posted by phins2rt
$33K seems high. Weren't new 06s going for around $38K equipped like this?
33K is at least 2K too high for a CPO!
Local acura dealer just sold '05 w/NAV , 26K on the clock for $29.5. I was trying to buy that car, but found a sweeter deal from a private party :) |
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| JL_SS |
| Most SUV trades these days are getting average condition Edmunds/KBB values, not outstanding, due to reduced demand. That follows through in the price that the dealer will sell at. For a 2005 Navi/RES in average condition with 25K, trade is $26K, Private Party is $27.8K, and dealer retail is $29.6. that corresponds with the 05 CPO Navi that mz28 was looking at for $29.5 (The RES additional $ would be similiar to the CPO additional $). It is probably priced high because it is a lease return and the residual was higher than market value. But that just means you have a lot of negotiating room if you like that MDX. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by uchylisa
Edmonds price from a private party for this vehicle with the low 25000 miles is $34K and from a dealer $37.5K. Looks like the MSRP for a new 06 with nav and res was 44,200 with an invoice of $39800. I can't find the MSRP and Ivoice prices for the 05 models. I assume they'd be a little less.
The 2005 was a few percent less than the 2006. I believe that 2004 was the first year that invoice deals were possible. 2005 definitely had invoice deals. I believe there was also a $2500 rebate towards the end of the 2005 model year. |
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| uchylisa |
Interesting! I definately will do some negotiating if I decide to purchase after the test drive. I appreciate any information you give me. I feel like I could hold my own on a new car negotiation armed with invoice and hold back info. Don't really know where to start with a used vehicle. I haven't seen anything other than 04 on dealer lots around here. Found this guy on Yahoo Auto advertising through Autotrader. As I posted in the financing thread, I can't seem to find any 05s or 06s used around (not with Nav at least, and the RES is a bonus as far as I'm concerned)people just don't want to get rid of these cars.
He sold the silver one I called about last weekend. It was listed for $34599 I wonder what they actually paid?? He has a warehouse he keeps the cars in and is open for appointments during the week and regular hours on the weekend. |
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| mz28 |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
The 2005 was a few percent less than the 2006. I believe that 2004 was the first year that invoice deals were possible. 2005 definitely had invoice deals. I believe there was also a $2500 rebate towards the end of the 2005 model year.
Since I was in the same shoes as the original poster choice of '07 Pilot or '05 MDX I was doing my reaserch for about 2.5 months.
Reading Edmunds Townhall (prices paid) and going back to around Summer of '05 people were posting ~38.5K paid for NAV/RES. So there was no way I was going to pay over 30K for a 2 year old used car.
BTW Pilot w/NAV was quoted to me @ 29K 2 weeks ago but it came down to the "minivan" shifter on the streering column and the lack of BT on the Pilot.
Good luck with your decision. |
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| MDX4now |
quote:
Originally posted by phins2rt
$33K seems high. Weren't new 06s going for around $38K equipped like this?
I'd say it's high, as my dealership in Chicago, for whatever reason, offered me a brand new 2006 Navi/RES for $36,500 back in July plus free body-side moldings.
My wife didn't want to give up the cubby bin in front of the shifter for her "crap", so we went with just the Navi for the same price of $36,500 (plus free body-side molding and installation.)
Why they were willing to give us the Navi/RES version for the same price as our Navi version is beyond me. Would the fact that it was a showroom vehicle have anything to do with it?
Acura's $2,500 incentives and huge discounting on the 2006's probably haven't helped the resale of the 01-06's either.
Anyway, a 2005 Navi/RES for $33,000 is certainly too high. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by uchylisa
Interesting! I definately will do some negotiating if I decide to purchase after the test drive. I appreciate any information you give me. I feel like I could hold my own on a new car negotiation armed with invoice and hold back info. Don't really know where to start with a used vehicle. I haven't seen anything other than 04 on dealer lots around here. Found this guy on Yahoo Auto advertising through Autotrader. As I posted in the financing thread, I can't seem to find any 05s or 06s used around (not with Nav at least, and the RES is a bonus as far as I'm concerned)people just don't want to get rid of these cars.
He sold the silver one I called about last weekend. It was listed for $34599 I wonder what they actually paid?? He has a warehouse he keeps the cars in and is open for appointments during the week and regular hours on the weekend.
Demand and supply is another part the equation that Edmunds can't account for all the time. If you have searched and can't find any similiar vehicles, then that may be a reasonable price for your area. As noted in other threads, a lot of people lease for the length of the warranty and Acura/Honda was pushing longer term leases (4 yrs). That means you won't see that many 2005s off lease yet. As far as negotiation goes, just make a low offer and see what the response is. Then go from there. Worst case is that they don't budge and you have to decide if you are OK with the high price. Best case is that you get a reasonable price. Good luck with it. |
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| Luke |
quote:
Originally posted by uchylisa
Wow what a lively conversation I've sparked.
Just to update you on what I'm currently doing. Our stock options are rebounding better than we thought. But I've found a guy who buys lease returns directly from Honda in Seattle and Sacremento. He has an 05 MDX tourning with navi and RES with 25K miles for $33K. This is about what we'd pay for a new Pilot if I added on the aftermarket RES. It still has half of the manufacturer's wananty on it and as far as I can see it has many of the features I'd be missing out on in the Pilot. I'm thinking this may be a good option for me, especially since I'm terribly fond of the new black shiny fake wood in the new MDX and I'm quite bothered by the visiblity out the small back side windows (I'm only 5'3" and now matter how I adjust the seat I see headrest when I look over my shoulder to change lanes). Does anyone know if they 05 RES had the 110 electrcial plug in like the 07 does? I'm hoping to go look at this car this weekend!!
I'll keep you all posted.
Two comments:
- I got a small blind spot mirror that I attached to the side mirrors and works perfect (you can buy at local fred meyer or target)
- You can buy a AC inverter which will give you 1 or 2 electrical plugs |
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| TooHypper |
I had a 2004 Pilot and like you said, No Blue tooth and they ony come with RES or NAV not both like the MDX. I LOVE my MDX, I would not trade it for the world, not to mention when I bring it in for service they give me a loaner car for the day or days depending on what they are doing.......BEST customer service.
The MDX came first then they developed the Pilot, the only Pro to the Pilot is it will fit 8 people, I did that on our way to 3 different halloween parties....what a blast.
I would say MDX all the way.:D |
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| Will4271 |
quote:
Originally posted by TooHypper
I had a 2004 Pilot and like you said, No Blue tooth and they ony come with RES or NAV not both like the MDX. I LOVE my MDX, I would not trade it for the world, not to mention when I bring it in for service they give me a loaner car for the day or days depending on what they are doing.......BEST customer service.
The MDX came first then they developed the Pilot, the only Pro to the Pilot is it will fit 8 people, I did that on our way to 3 different halloween parties....what a blast.
I would say MDX all the way.:D
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| Will4271 |
quote:
Originally posted by TooHypper
I had a 2004 Pilot and like you said, No Blue tooth and they ony come with RES or NAV not both like the MDX. I LOVE my MDX, I would not trade it for the world, not to mention when I bring it in for service they give me a loaner car for the day or days depending on what they are doing.......BEST customer service.
The MDX came first then they developed the Pilot, the only Pro to the Pilot is it will fit 8 people, I did that on our way to 3 different halloween parties....what a blast.
I would say MDX all the way.:D
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| Will4271 |
quote:
Originally posted by TooHypper
I had a 2004 Pilot and like you said, No Blue tooth and they ony come with RES or NAV not both like the MDX. I LOVE my MDX, I would not trade it for the world, not to mention when I bring it in for service they give me a loaner car for the day or days depending on what they are doing.......BEST customer service.
The MDX came first then they developed the Pilot, the only Pro to the Pilot is it will fit 8 people, I did that on our way to 3 different halloween parties....what a blast.
I would say MDX all the way.:D
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| Will4271 |
quote:
Originally posted by TooHypper
I had a 2004 Pilot and like you said, No Blue tooth and they ony come with RES or NAV not both like the MDX. I LOVE my MDX, I would not trade it for the world, not to mention when I bring it in for service they give me a loaner car for the day or days depending on what they are doing.......BEST customer service.
The MDX came first then they developed the Pilot, the only Pro to the Pilot is it will fit 8 people, I did that on our way to 3 different halloween parties....what a blast.
I would say MDX all the way.:D
Funny.. My dealership in SJ, CA only gives loaner cars if you spent over so many dollars. When they give the loaner, it's usually an Enterprise one. I have never managed to get a real Acura for loaner so I think of think the loaner car idea is not real.
Service is so and so at Acura but some shops better than some.
If I were to revisit Pilot vs. Acura. I would go for the Pilot. esp. the new Price of the Acura MDX is a lot higher than the previous money. Keep the money for something else.
Btw, there's plenty of older MDXs around nowdays with very low mileage. Those are good deals now.
Why buy new and waste the money on drepreciation? |
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| Luke |
quote:
Originally posted by Will4271
Funny.. My dealership in SJ, CA only gives loaner cars if you spent over so many dollars. When they give the loaner, it's usually an Enterprise one. I have never managed to get a real Acura for loaner so I think of think the loaner car idea is not real.
Service is so and so at Acura but some shops better than some.
If I were to revisit Pilot vs. Acura. I would go for the Pilot. esp. the new Price of the Acura MDX is a lot higher than the previous money. Keep the money for something else.
Btw, there's plenty of older MDXs around nowdays with very low mileage. Those are good deals now.
Why buy new and waste the money on drepreciation?
That's a no brainer: if you have the money it's always nice to buy something brand new and choose with your options/colors and have the new car smell.
If you don't have the money or have much better use for it you can buy used and save a bit (if you negotiate well since typically dealers always ask much more than bluebook).
That said I also would never buy a car in its last model year. The new model is just around the corner.
The new '08 Accords are to be released in September and they're pretty quiet so far. So no idea what the Pilot plan is. |
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| TooHypper |
I get the best price whenever I buy a new car. I have purchased 4 vehicles in the last 7 years. I e-mail from their website dealers 200 miles away and closer to your home a list of what you want:
Color
Accesories
Res
Nav
anything you can think of.
I paid for my 06 MDX fully loaded (NAV/RES both types of floor mats back cargo cover, crome side bars, the nice back spoiler) everything is on there but the cargo container on top. $38,000 plus taxes and that was with them taking my TWO trade-ins a 04 Honda Pilot and a 03 Honda Accord. We played hard ball.....go during April when everyone had to pay their taxes, they are really slow there. Tell them once you are at the dealer that you do not want to dance back and forth to the closer, that these are the numbers (have them on paper) and this is what you will pay.
They do not make that much on new cars, it is the accesories and used cars. Acura gives the top selling dealers kick backs for selling so many cars.
E-mail each dealer they each have ainternet sales person who can get you waht you want, they even trade cars from other dealers to get what you want.
PS....sorry for the ADHD work out the PRICE first then tell them you have a trade. |
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| uchylisa |
Well Here's what we decided.
We are now the proud owners of a 2005 steel blue metalic MDX touring with Navigation and RES. :2: The low pressure used luxury car dealer wanted $33,900 for this one and we paid $33,300 with him incuding the missing remote and wireless headsets for the RES, all season floor mats and the cargo tray, and a cargo net. He also is going to replace a tire that is a little warped from being sinched down too tight during transport.
I did hear what you were all saying about price above, but
the supply is so low around here that I jumped on this car. In the past two months I have only seen 2 2006 and those were both listed at $38900:eek: (one private party and the other at a dealership) and 4 2005 (with this one being the least expensive one I've seen) listed anywhere in the Portland Metro area. I've been looking at Auto Trader, Yahoo Autos, Craiglist, and the local newspapers. We've also checked the local dealers used car lots and all they had were a BUNCH of 02 and 03s. So I'd say that in our local area, supply and demand is getting Edmonds prices on used MDXs.
Thanks for all your help! I'm sure I'll be posting around hear as I learn all about my vehicle. I'm trying to figure out how to import my phonebook into the bluetooth. I actually have one of the sony erickson phones that the website says is compatable. Guess it was meant to be huh?:D |
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| mz28 |
| Congratulations and Enjoy!!! |
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| drjay |
quote:
Originally posted by drjay
... Let us know what you decide to do.
:welcome:
Glad to hear that you've joined the ranks of proud MDX owners. And, yes, it does sound like it was meant to be!
Enjoy your ride! |
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| greenjujube |
| I just bought the Tech/Ent package. What I like the most is the auto tailgate. When my hands are full, just push the button. Also, it's nice to have the nav and dvd for long trips to places I am not familiar with. |
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