| Jupiter |
The "Check Engine" and "VTM-4" lights came on for my '03 MDX (58K miles) last week. :( Since I have not purchased any extended warranties, I want to see what others experienced out there. After researching the various threads, there were a great deal of useful information. Thanks to ALL who post. KEEP IT UP! Most of the posted items are emissions related and covered under the emissions warranty (8/80).
I learned that AutoZone will read the codes for free. :D They scanned the OBD and found a P0134 code for "O2 Sensor, CKT No Activity, (Bank1)(Sensor1)". I later learned from a dealer that this is the upper rear oxygen sensor located on the exhaust manifold closest to the firewall. Official Acura Part number / description = 36531-RCA-A02 / Sensor, LAF. The part replacement is made easier with the appropriate tools for compact areas. I have attached a diagram. (If I can figure it out right.) I will also attempt to post a couple of photos as well.
Here's a couple of other threads I posted to and checked out:
Check Engine Light/Vtm-4
Check Engine+MisFire == Spark Plugs?
Who has had the bad Oxygen Sensor issue outside of the basic warranty (4 yr / 50K mi) and a dealer covered it as a warranty item? Do you think this is an item that should be covered by Acura? |
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| Jupiter |
| Here's the first photo ... the new oxygen sensor installed. I tried to circle the relevant points. Unplugging wasn't that easy. |
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| Jupiter |
| Here's the used/defective O2 Sensor ... |
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| aarijk |
Could you post a wider-angle pic of the engine bay? Thx.
quote:
Originally posted by Jupiter
Here's the used/defective O2 Sensor ...
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| Jupiter |
Here's an attempt at a wider angle view. This picture includes the engine cover. Use a 10 mm under the 'green' circled covers to remove the entire engine cover. The particular oxygen sensor (Bank1 Sensor1) is by the fire wall as indicated with the 'red' box. The view is not all that better with the engine cover removed.
Was there anything specific you are looking for? |
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| Redwingz |
| For the oxygen sensor problem, I thought there was a recall by Acura (MDX) a while ago. I have a 2002 MDX and thought I saw some type of notification about the oxygen sensor....I could be wrong but if you want me, I can try look it up. |
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| Jupiter |
Thanks Redwingz.
As you have time, that would be a great resource to have. One argument Acura may have is the different model years - 2002 vs. 2003. But what the heck, let's give it a try. I think it's worth a try to recoup ~$150 for the part alone. Hopefully, it references only the part and/or part number. That should increase my chances. |
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| Nathan @ NBO |
| Sometimes cleaning an old sensor with carb cleaner can give it some extra life, FYI. |
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| Ceenit |
I may be off on this, but I thought the o2sensor was part of the emmisions system which is covered by a longer standard warranty by law(80K?).
Worth checking in your manual for future reference. |
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| Redwingz |
quote:
Originally posted by Redwingz
For the oxygen sensor problem, I thought there was a recall by Acura (MDX) a while ago. I have a 2002 MDX and thought I saw some type of notification about the oxygen sensor....I could be wrong but if you want me, I can try look it up.
This may be too late. Sorry I was out of touch with the forum for a while. I will look it up and see what I have. Maybe it can be useful for others... sorry mate! |
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| mdx99 |
quote:
Originally posted by Redwingz
This may be too late. Sorry I was out of touch with the forum for a while. I will look it up and see what I have. Maybe it can be useful for others... sorry mate!
Was that O2 sensor from Acura for $150?? wow, that's really expensive for a tiny part. Is that any equivalent from Bosch? My 03 has 45k so I am thinking about changing that for maintainence. But for $150 I need to think about that.:eek: |
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| Jupiter |
In checking the Autozone website, I did find what appears to be an equivalent ... Bosch / Oxygen Sensor, Part # 15401, $124.
Application: Rear converter, Sensor located before catalytic converter
Note: O.E. type, 5 wire, wideband
Their product photo appears to be very similar.
Good luck in your personal case. |
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| mdx99 |
quote:
Originally posted by Jupiter
In checking the Autozone website, I did find what appears to be an equivalent ... Bosch / Oxygen Sensor, Part # 15401, $124.
Application: Rear converter, Sensor located before catalytic converter
Note: O.E. type, 5 wire, wideband
Their product photo appears to be very similar.
Good luck in your personal case.
Thanks, looks like there are 2 sensors before cat converter & 1 after, dam## , why they put so many sensors? I will probably get from the dealer for only 15% difference. |
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| Jupiter |
For that small of a difference, I decided to go for the OEM part.
There are actually FOUR (4) oxygen sensors in the MDX (at least the 2003 model). I will post a diagram next week.
There is one after the catalytic converter and three before the catalytic converter. There is one immediately before the cat. and the other 2 are on the exhaust manifolds of the engine. |
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| Jupiter |
| Attached is a diagram I received from the dealership of the 2 engine converters with the oxygen sensors on the top (see items #9 and #10). I believe these are 2 of 3 'before cat' sensors known as the front (#10) and rear (#9) oxygen sensors by the engine. |
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| jkallen1 |
Jupiter,
You've obviously replaced a few O2 sensors in your day! I am told by Acura that the VTM light is on because my "front" o2 sensor is bad. I am quite handy with tools and I'm sure I can replace the part myself...if I can find it! Since there are 4 sensors, and they all look the same, how do I know which one is the "front"? I see it's #10 in your diagram, but since the diagram is sort of a zoomed in, I don't know where in the engine compartment it is located. Help!
Thanks! |
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| misty 24 |
| I had the same problem on my 03 MDX. Dealer said the warranty had expired (41,000 miles, but over 4years in service). I bought a sensor socket and Bosch 15401 sensor ($99 + tax & $10 for the socket at Autozone) and replaced the sensor myself. The problem was solved. The biggest problem was disconnecting the old sensor from the connector socket. The sensor socket assembly must first be removed from its horizontal blade mount. There is a plastic tab on the inner face of the socket. Pull the tab away from the mounting blade and pull the connector assembly to the left (towards the sensor). The disconnect the connectors, held by the same type tab. good luck |
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| Jupiter |
Jkallen1,
Truthfully, this was my first oxygen sensor I replaced ever and by myself. It was a real pain in the a$$ to get the 'rear' sensor off. This was primarily due to the reach and extreme close quarters.
Check my last replay on 5-18-2007, it mentions the locations of the O2 sensors. I believe the 'Front' sensor is located before the catalytic convertor on the manifold system at the front of the vehicle closest to the radiator. Depending on your relationship with your dealership, the service folks may confirm/validate the location for you. ;) If this is the case, it will be slightly easier to reach. :2: Good luck and keep us posted. By the way, the diagram was courtsey of Acura (I will not detail the dealership). |
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| Jupiter |
misty 24,
I do recall that AutoZone mentioned there were different prices for the various oxygen sensors. I believe they mentioned something about the number of wires ... I could have heard wrong on this. :confused: |
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| misty 24 |
Jupiter,
The P 0134 fault is bank 1 / sensor 1 as you determined. It is a 5 wire sensor. After consulting several sources I determined the (less expensive) Bosch replacement was the 15401. The Acura dealer had quoted $146 plus tax. Although I normally would rather use the original equipment parts, I took a chance on the Bosch sensor. It is working so far (500ish miles) |
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| Jupiter |
Misty 24,
Thanks for the feedback and good luck on the oxygen sensors. |
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| jkallen1 |
Well - it's all done. I replaced the o2 sensor before the catalytic converter. The "front" one as they say. I wanted to share my experience.
1) I opted for the Universal Bosch because it was the only one in stock at every place I went. Pep Boys was cheapest at $59. I would recommend against this Universal route. It really wasn't fun. I probably spent an hour with the 2 sensor checking and double checking my wires, cutting and splicing, and connecting. But it was cheap! You can buy these new on ebay for $50 - $100. Acura dealers use Denso brand and I saw those on ebay too.
2) I "borrowed" the socket from Autozone - really cool tool loan program they have. You just leave a deposit and get to use the tool for free essentially. If you don't bring it back, you bought it. I will be taking mine back as soon as I finish this post javascript:smilie(':)')
3) How many sensors are there? Acura tells me there are only 2 - on the 2001 a least. I saw someone saying 4 in another post - I'm not sure how you could get 4 on the exhaust line or why it would be needed.
4) Jupiter was correct on the pictures he posted about where the sensor wire is. Note that the sensor is underneath the car, very visible on the manifold - and you kind of have to start there and follow the wire up to locate the connector. You MUST disconnect the connector and free the wires before you remove the old one. This is done from the engine compartment - back of the engine near the firewall. I suppose you could cut the old wires off underneath and then remove the sensor since you won;t be using it anymore. But if you have the universal, you must leave about 5 inches of wire on the connector end.
5) Not sure why it matters, but many kits talk about a 29 inch wire. The Acura wire is 20.5 inches (including the sensor).
6) I had to disconnect the negative battery terminal to correct the "Check Engine" Light. And I want to ask you guys about this:
2 weeks ago, the maint reqd light came on. I know this is a normal 5K "change oil" light. Before I reset that light, a week later, the vtm4 and check engine lights came on. so when I changed the sensor, all 3 lights were on. After changing the sensor, the check engine and maint reqd lights were on - the vtm4 light went off on it's own. I did the normal maint reqd reset sequence and then just the check engine light remained. The battery pull fixed that last light. What I want to know is....is that normal? I mean for the vtm4 to go off by itself and I had to reset the check engine myself? Also, is pulling the battery the only way to do that?
Thanks guys! |
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| BlueStreak |
Some great info. Thaks for all the comments.
Couple questions. Just threw a P2247, which indicates bank 2 sensor 1 (oxygen sensor). I know it's the front sensor, but can anyone clarify if this is top or bottom? I think it's top as it says sensor 1. Bank 2 means front?
Also, the Bosch number is 15730, a universal model. Has anyone replaced a front sensor with this universal one? All go OK?
Final question. I have to assume these are easier to get out when they are hot. I see they're only torqued to 33 ft lbs, but I'm sitting with 83,000 miles so I'm sure it's seated well.
Thanks. |
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| Jupiter |
BlueStreak,
Since your MDX is also an '03 model, your part references should be exact to what I have posted.
I do know that the one I replaced - Bank 1 Sensor 1 - was the rear upper sensor closest to the fire wall. My "GUESS" would agree with you that Bank 2 Sensor 1 is the front upper sensor closest to the radiator. I would suggest contacting your local dealer service center to validate our thinking.
Good Luck. Let us know how this works out. |
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| BlueStreak |
quote:
Originally posted by Jupiter
BlueStreak,
Since your MDX is also an '03 model, your part references should be exact to what I have posted.
I do know that the one I replaced - Bank 1 Sensor 1 - was the rear upper sensor closest to the fire wall. My "GUESS" would agree with you that Bank 2 Sensor 1 is the front upper sensor closest to the radiator. I would suggest contacting your local dealer service center to validate our thinking.
Good Luck. Let us know how this works out.
I was just able to confirm the bottom sensors (front and rear) are referred to as "secondary", so bank 2 sensor 1 is the top one close to the radiator. Bank 1 is the rear, closest to the firewall.
The Bosch universal 15730 unit is a 4-wire unit and my top sensor has 5 wires. So I'm researching how to do this now. The unit may have instructions in it, but I wanted to validate this before I went and bought one. Looks like pin 1 is relay, pin 2 is heat, pin 6 is voltage in, pin 7 is pump cell and pin 8 is ground. The Bosch units appears to be internally grounded. So I may be all set... |
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| BlueStreak |
I've learned a lot the past 24 hours re: o2 sensors aka A/F (air/fuel) sensors. I'll recap from the begining to help everyone.
1. There are two different o2 sensor types - regular and wideband. Regular is 4-wire and wideband is a 5 wire. The 2003 MDX uses 5-wire for the top sensors primary inside and outside. (bank 1 sensor 1 and bank 2 sensor 1)
2. You can not use a 4-wire regular sensor in place of the wideband. While the Bosch book lists this, it will not work. Need TWO signal pins from the wideband unit. Don't try to share a single signal wire from the sensor to two wires on the X harness.
3. There are TWO different o2 sensors listed for the 2003 MDX. Bosch part number 15730 is listed as a universal and 14501 is the wideband. Someone posted the Acura part number of 36351-RCA-A02. On the bag of my sensor from Bosch is listed this same number. So the Acura part number must be the Bosch part number.
The 15730 Bosch part IS the replacement for the secondary o2 sensors, and both the front and rear secondaries are the same. So it's two parts to replace all four sensors, a 15401 and 15730 for the inside (top and bottom) and same for the outside set-up.
4. The wideband part is 80.99 from AdvanceAutoParts. So buy it there and save from the Acura price. It was a plug and play device. The regular 15730 sensor is 61.00.
To install, it's faily easy. PUSH the locking tab on the connector and pull the connetor a part. Rent the puller from $10 from an auto parts store and the sensor broke free. Simply un-thread. The car was warm, but not hot.
Screwed in a new unit and I was ready to go. 33 ft. lbs of torque to tighten.
Hope this helps.
P.S. The Bosch tech I talked to knew his stuff and was of great help. 888-715-3616 is their number. I had to leave a message, but they called back in less than 5 minutes. |
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| jagmeister |
| Like others, I'm experiencing difficulty removing the plastic connector. I push the tab, which then clicks, but I cannot get the connector to budge. Is there another tab or something I'm missing? |
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| jagmeister |
| I re-read Misty 24's post. |
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| jagmeister |
Thanks for the folks who posted this information. Great info.
Some info for future souls who may experience what I went through this weekend.
Check engine light and VTM lights up. So I go off to Advance Auto to borrow their code reader -- P2240 comes up. This is the front oxygen sensor near the radiator -- visible once you open the hood, just look straight down by the fan. I buy the Bosch 15401 sensor ($93) and a O2 sensor socket ($12) from Advance Auto. Actually had to wait one day to receive the part.
I think it would have taken about fifteen minutes to remove and install but I spent a couple of hours trying to undo the connector assembly. Once I got smart enough to read the above post correctly :rolleyes: I was able to remove the assembly from the metal blade mount by pulling the tab and sliding it off the blade. Only after removing it off the metal blade can you push the tab to disconnect the two plastic pieces. Removing the sensor was fairly easy. Besides the O2 sensor socket, I used a ratchet with an extension bar and a torque wrench.
I was a little worried when the car would not start correctly. It took three starts before it would stay fired. However, after the fourth start it was and has been fine. I disconnected the negative line on the battery to reset the lights and it was thankfully done. I tell you, I almost gave up on that connector assembly. Thanks again for all your help. I find myself relying more and more on this forum as my car gets older and parts start failing. :) |
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| djw |
Thanks for the info posted here - saved myself a bit of $$.
1. Check engine and vtm4 light on!?!?
2. Autozone dumped the codes P2251 and P0134. Bank 1 Sensor 1 - the rear upper sensor closest to the firewall.
3. 2003 MDX uses 5-wire for the top sensors primary inside and outside. (bank 1 sensor 1 and bank 2 sensor 1). Ordered Bosch 15401 ($80) and subsequently rented the autozone kit 27110 (socket with slot). It is plug-n-play.
4. The only pia with this is getting the plug released. It helps to pull the inside tab to take it off the mount then you can see/push the outside tab to unplug the sensor.
Thanks to you guys that have blazed this trail. |
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| BlueStreak |
quote:
Originally posted by djw
Thanks for the info posted here - saved myself a bit of $$.
1. Check engine and vtm4 light on!?!?
2. Autozone dumped the codes P2251 and P0134. Bank 1 Sensor 1 - the rear upper sensor closest to the firewall.
3. 2003 MDX uses 5-wire for the top sensors primary inside and outside. (bank 1 sensor 1 and bank 2 sensor 1). Ordered Bosch 15401 ($80) and subsequently rented the autozone kit 27110 (socket with slot). It is plug-n-play.
4. The only pia with this is getting the plug released. It helps to pull the inside tab to take it off the mount then you can see/push the outside tab to unplug the sensor.
Thanks to you guys that have blazed this trail.
You bet! That is what this forum is all about - helping others.
Glad you're back running with no codes.
:29: |
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| Jupiter |
This link below from a fellow poster is great. You can get a listing of all codes. Please there are a lot of other TSBs out there.
http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/show...&threadid=32043
By the way, I have learned a great deal for other posts and was glad to have finally initiated a post that others can find useful. Again, one great reason making this a superb forum. |
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| Patron |
| I have the check engine light on and the VTM light on also, I am hoping that I need to change the o2 sensor. My MDX is an 01 I will look into seeing if an auto parts store here can tell me what code is being thrown. I apreciate all the help you guys put here. One question though did anyone have an idling issue not so much the idling being rough but just lower than what it should be? I might need to change the plugs I have not done that since I purchased the vehicle (used) and i am not sure when the last owner had them replaced. It just sucks being out of the country with a shortage of tools. If anyone has any hookups in Windsor Ontario Canada. let me know. Thanks again guys! |
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| BlueStreak |
My X didn't idle any differently with a single (of the four) o2 sensor down. I did notice my mileage went to crap.
I ran a bottle of fuel systems cleaner through the tank after I replaced the sensor and the X was running fine. This is cheap and you might consider this before you invest in plugs.
Ask the dealer to run the VIN and he may be able to tell you if any work was performed at an Acura/Honda dealer.
Other option is to pull a single plug.
Good luck. |
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| Jupiter |
I did not experience idling issues before or after the O2 sensor replacement.
I did a google search for Autozone in Windsor and found no listings. However, the search produced a number of locations in Detroit. They should likely be able to help you read the codes.
Perhaps the codes that come back may include something related to idling. Another potential scenario is the On-Board computer may be trying to adjust parameters due to a different signal or lack of a signal from the O2 sensor.
Good luck and let us know how things work out. |
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