| gopnik |
After test driving like 20 different cars and SUVs, I finally decided to get a new MDX. I kept going back and forth between waiting for 2008 or just get the 2007 model with a deep discount (local dealership offered me one for 40,600 with Tech package).
Anyway, my dealer sent me an email this morning saying that they will start getting 2008 model at the end of August. He also said that additional colors is the only difference. |
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| ATLFlyer |
I guess, I am also in the same boat except that I am yet to test drive any one.
Looking for 08 to come to market, then see the enhancements and make a decision whether to go for 08 or 07 with at or below invoice.
Thx |
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| rai |
I was in the same situatuation. I was not pressed to get a car, but after looking at the 07 MDX we knew it was going to be that. But we were not sure what the 08s were going to have different.
We still don't know. I bet the dealership is just saying the only difference is going to be the color. The reason they would say that is they want to sell the 07s. I mean they have to sell the 07s now or else they will be on the lot with the 08s.
We bought the MDX 7-11 so thats 10 days. I got it near invoice price and 2.9% I think that 2.9% will be good for the 08s as well.
My point is if they are the same (ie same equipment) than I'm glad I got the MDX when I did because it's a great truck. If you can wait it's worth it just to make sure they don't have any major features (such as power tailgait with the tech package or as standard equip). Other than that if they are the same it's just a matter of getting the best price which the 07s should be better at this point.
I know re-sale the newer ones will be worth some more but we plan to keep it for a very long time so re-sale is not as big of a deal to me. |
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| Mike_TX |
So, in other words, there are no changes to the vehicle itself ... just a new color or two.
That would jibe with Acura's usual way of doing things, and means there's not a HUGE reason to wait for the '08's. The '07's will be a better buy since they won't do any meaningful discounting on the '08's until the first of the year.
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| rai |
quote:
Originally posted by Mike_TX
So, in other words, there are no changes to the vehicle itself ... just a new color or two.
That would jibe with Acura's usual way of doing things, and means there's not a HUGE reason to wait for the '08's. The '07's will be a better buy since they won't do any meaningful discounting on the '08's until the first of the year.
.
.
I have not heard anything official that there is no change. Just a salesperson or dealer sayso does not make it so.
Also why do you think there will be no meaningful discount till the first of the year? I think as soon as the 07s are cleared out they will have to offer the same deals on the 08s (ie. close to invoice). Gas prices are not exactly cheap and there is not a waiting list for MDXs. My dealer had I think 20 MDXs in stock. |
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| Mike_RadBoy |
Just picked up a Nimbus Gray 07 Tech/Ent for a great deal too.
The only other change my dealer told me about was that they were going to up the price ~$300 and add the auto dimming mirror that should have come in the damn truck in the first place.
That is all....
Mike |
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| crazymjb |
Sorry, I have to LOL at "truck"
The biggest change between the 07 and 08 I imagine would be resale value. Not only does the car appear a year "newer" but it is no longer a first model year vehicle. The tangible difference between a late model 07 and 08 are likely slim to none. Acura may address a minor issue, such as the aforementioned mirror, but likely not much more. With the TL it was the seat stitching and placement of the passenger airbag warning light (moved to center console).
Mike |
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by crazymjb
Sorry, I have to LOL at "truck"
The biggest change between the 07 and 08 I imagine would be resale value. Not only does the car appear a year "newer" but it is no longer a first model year vehicle. The tangible difference between a late model 07 and 08 are likely slim to none. Acura may address a minor issue, such as the aforementioned mirror, but likely not much more. With the TL it was the seat stitching and placement of the passenger airbag warning light (moved to center console).
Mike
I think you are correct. You will save a bit if you get an 07 when the 08s are hitting the lot, but that will be offset on the backend when your car is theorhetically a year older, even though it could be purchased on the same day as an 08. |
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| maxgmdx |
I was reading the only difference between
2007 & 2008 MDX.
2008: autodimming rearview mirror will be standard.
2007: Option |
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| Mike_TX |
quote:
Originally posted by rai
I have not heard anything official that there is no change. Just a salesperson or dealer sayso does not make it so.
That goes without saying. ;)
quote:
Also why do you think there will be no meaningful discount till the first of the year? I think as soon as the 07s are cleared out they will have to offer the same deals on the 08s (ie. close to invoice). Gas prices are not exactly cheap and there is not a waiting list for MDXs. My dealer had I think 20 MDXs in stock.
Just because that's the way car sales work. When any new year model comes out, they try to maintain the price as much as possible for the first few months.
Part of the reason is so they can clear out the inventory of outgoing models, but the rest of it is just (to paraphrase ex-President Clinton) because they can.
IOW, enough people will want the new model that they really don't HAVE to discount heavily to move it. And if they start out discounting, they have nowhere to go in the summer when sales get slow. It's just normal dealer marketing strategy.
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| lester123 |
quote:
Originally posted by Mike_RadBoy
Just picked up a Nimbus Gray 07 Tech/Ent for a great deal too.
The only other change my dealer told me about was that they were going to up the price ~$300 and add the auto dimming mirror that should have come in the damn truck in the first place.
That is all....
Mike
I live in Cincinnati for the summer and am considering getting either a 2007 or 2008 to replace my "ageing" 2002 MDX. I previously bought my 2002 from Superior Acura.
Can I ask about how much over invoice did you pay for the 2007 and which dealer?
I understand that the closest dealer to offer a Costco Auto Program discount in in Columbus. If I can't get a good deal, I will just wait for the 2008. |
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| LionSpeed |
| Just wondering if they're ever gonna put this bumper in production, cause I dig it. |
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| Mike_RadBoy |
quote:
Originally posted by lester123
I live in Cincinnati for the summer and am considering getting either a 2007 or 2008 to replace my "ageing" 2002 MDX. I previously bought my 2002 from Superior Acura.
Can I ask about how much over invoice did you pay for the 2007 and which dealer?
I understand that the closest dealer to offer a Costco Auto Program discount in in Columbus. If I can't get a good deal, I will just wait for the 2008.
I purchased from Columbia Acura, where I leased my 03 MDX from.
I paid $42,500 for Tech/Ent with cargo tray, cargo cover and Rubber mats which is basically invoice on the car and discounted rate on the accessories.
They do charge a $250 doc/title fee.
All in all I was happy. They treated my wife and I well, we test drove several times, checked out all sorts of color combos and ran endless lease vs purchase deals prior to deciding to buy.
Let me know if you have any other questions,
Mike |
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| dj-mdx2 |
quote:
Originally posted by LionSpeed
Just wondering if they're ever gonna put this bumper in production, cause I dig it.
It already has that bumper. The lights are just sized and shaped differently. |
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| Acura Buff |
quote:
Originally posted by dj-mdx2
It already has that bumper. The lights are just sized and shaped differently.
I think Lionspeed was referring to the bumper with the reduced grayish area.
I too prefer the concept car's bumper over the production bumper.
I really wish they would either color match the bumper with the rest of the car or reduce the gray area.
08 mdx is the only 08 model not up on Acura's website yet. Even 08 RDX is up. |
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| dj-mdx2 |
quote:
Originally posted by Acura Buff
I think Lionspeed was referring to the bumper with the reduced grayish area.
I too prefer the concept car's bumper over the production bumper.
Gotcha. I don't notice it much coz my X is black. |
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| JeffK |
If you are going to lease, the '08 will lease out cheaper than the '07 as the residuals will be much higher.
As to discounting the '08: Buyers are not brain dead, although dealers think they are.
Buyers know that the '07 are going for close to invoice, so they will not pay much more than invoice for an '08 vs. an '07 unless their is added content, which from the posting if accurate, there are none.
Expect Acura to add financial incentives to move the '08.
For example I am considering leasing an Accord: the money factor on the EX is is 1.75% with a residual of 58% for three years and 36,000 miles. This is real factory support.
I predict Acura will have to start supporting the MDX to move them as well.
JeffK |
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| m500 |
| Now I feel like I been cheated. Didn't 07 just came out not too long ago and I just pick up my 07 for less then a month. :3: |
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| JeffK |
Why???
The '07's came out in October 2006. When did you think the '08's were going to come out - in January/February 2008???
JeffK |
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| m500 |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffK
Why???
The '07's came out in October 2006. When did you think the '08's were going to come out - in January/February 2008???
JeffK
I guess I must not paying too much attention to it as my initial choices were between Pathfinder V8 and Armada SE because I wanted a V8.
I thought 07 just came out early this year. Its too late now and I purchase it on an impulse so its my own fault anyway.
I'm gonna try hard to ignore the fact that 08 is coming one month after I purchased my 07. |
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| LionSpeed |
quote:
Originally posted by m500
I guess I must not paying too much attention to it as my initial choices were between Pathfinder V8 and Armada SE because I wanted a V8.
I thought 07 just came out early this year. Its too late now and I purchase it on an impulse so its my own fault anyway.
I'm gonna try hard to ignore the fact that 08 is coming one month after I purchased my 07.
Would it make you feel any better if the fact of differences between 07 & 08 are just an auto dim mirror & some new color choice?
:lurk: |
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| m500 |
quote:
Originally posted by LionSpeed
Would it make you feel any better if the fact of differences between 07 & 08 are just an auto dim mirror & some new color choice?
:lurk:
That's what I keep telling myself. I don't even want to know the price they may be offer at that will hurt even more. |
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| LionSpeed |
quote:
Originally posted by m500
That's what I keep telling myself. I don't even want to know the price they may be offer at that will hurt even more.
m500, here is the deal, forget the 2008 mdx ... IMO it is already old, gone, disappeared, thing of the past ...
Check this out. I'm thinking getting rid of my MDX 07 to get the 2009 Lexus RX460, V8, 380 horse, 8 speed auto trans, 3rd row ... on sale in spring 2008.
________________________
2009 Lexus RX460 (wish list)
2007 MDX BlueSteel/Ebony
2007 Lexus ES350
2003 Lexus ES300 |
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| rai |
I don't care too much about the 07 or 08 debate. It comes down to:
1) do I like the MDX? -yes
2) is there much difference in the 08? -no
3) is there much difference in the cost (ie. will I lose a lot more by getting one or the other?) -no
We keep our cars a long time like 6-7 years or more. So I'm not worried what the back end sale is going to be worth, but I do care about what features I have to live with for 6-7 years. I mean if it didn't have Bluetooth or other features we got then I would be living without something I want for a long time.
If you are the type of person that goes to the next great car every 18 months thats fine, maybe the 08 is better cause it has less depreciation with a quick sale.
If the 08s have no major new features (ie. just an auto dim mirror) then I'm glad I didn't wait.
It's a small thing but the MDXs built May 07 or later have a revised head rest and all 08s will have that. Lucky my car was built 6-07, but it's not that big a deal, I don't think it would matter too much if I had one built before May |
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| burnside |
| Damn, my thoughts exactly rai. We just bought last week and had the same conclusion - we keep our cars for a long time, like all the features we are getting, and don't see anything new in the 2008 that would make us wait. |
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| lester123 |
quote:
Originally posted by burnside
[ we keep our cars for a long time, like all the features we are getting, and don't see anything new in the 2008 that would make us wait. [/B]
I am currently undecided about 2007 vs 2008. In the past I have never gotten the first year of a new model, so I was wondering if there are some "problems" that may be fixed or fine-tuned.
Is it confirmed that the 2008's will be at dealers in August? |
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| rai |
quote:
Originally posted by lester123
I am currently undecided about 2007 vs 2008. In the past I have never gotten the first year of a new model, so I was wondering if there are some "problems" that may be fixed or fine-tuned.
Is it confirmed that the 2008's will be at dealers in August?
Not sure about when exactly they are going to be out. On the Acura website all the cars except the MDX are showing 08.
The one aspect I noted was the headrest which has been redesigned to better score on the crash tests.
The car has been out nearly a year so if any 'bugs' have been found they could have been quietly fixed. It's not something Acura has to tell us. If there is a problem Acura may not want to say we fixed this or that unless they need to do a re-call. I think any running fix may already be worked into the 07 (late build) like the headrest that the 08 may not be any different unless they find something they don't know about yet. |
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| m500 |
quote:
Originally posted by lester123
I am currently undecided about 2007 vs 2008. In the past I have never gotten the first year of a new model, so I was wondering if there are some "problems" that may be fixed or fine-tuned.
Is it confirmed that the 2008's will be at dealers in August?
Yes, its confirmed at least by Acura 101 West in Calabasas. I've already received communication to check out the new 2008 MDX. |
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| jbiz |
I am in the same boat as others (I think).. was at the (NJ) dealer yesterday looking to buy the MDX in black/taupe with Tech & Ent package.. they didn't have it and seem to have trouble locating one..
they offered $500 above invoice for a 2007 (on whatever one I would take) and said 2008's (which they said they have no info on) will not be out until October (I don't believe that)..
trying to figure out what to do.. my plan is to Lease the MDX, my current lease is up the last week of August.. and I cannot extend this lease anymore (already extended for 2 months while I looked for a new car)..
the dealer also said "all local dealers have agreed to not discount the 2008 MDX more the 500 off MSRP for the first 3 months once they do come out".. I dont think I believe that either.. they will all do what they need to sell their cars.. Dealer also said they are getting the black/taupe in stock 2nd week of august.. I said how can that be a new MY2007 MDX in mid august (not a transfer).. they said that is what it is..
so I am stuck on what to do.. I need a replacement car by the last week of August.. otherwise I am going to have to be in a rental..
With 2500 out of pocket, a 55% residual and a "promotional thru 7/31" money factor of .00209 they are asking ~$640/month for a 2007 MDX with the Ent & Tech package for 36 months with 12,000 miles/year. I wonder if the 2008 will acutally come out to a similar price
based on what I am reading above, maybe I should wait a few more weeks and get a 2008... assuming its going to actually be here by then..
anyone have any suggestions? |
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| JeffK |
I see this is your first post.
Welcome!
Suggest you read my prior posts on leasing. To actually calculate lease payments go to http://www.leaseguide.com/calc.htm
As to leasing, I have posted on numerous times about putting as little down as possible. It is ill advised to put $2500 down as a cap cost reduction.
Generally, because of the increased residuals, unless there is money back from the factory (as there were at the end of '06) monthly payments on an '08 will be about, if not less than on an '07.
A money factor of .00209 equals an interest rate of 5.02%, which I submit does not qualify as a "promotional rate". As I previously posted, the interest rate on the Accord EX is less than 1.5%.
The market, not the dealers, will decide if there will be discounting on the '08 MDX.
JeffK |
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| jbiz |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffK
I see this is your first post.
Welcome!
Suggest you read my prior posts on leasing. To actually calculate lease payments go to http://www.leaseguide.com/calc.htm
As to leasing, I have posted on numerous times about putting as little down as possible. It is ill advised to put $2500 down as a cap cost reduction.
Generally, because of the increased residuals, unless there is money back from the factory (as there were at the end of '06) monthly payments on an '08 will be about, if not less than on an '07.
A money factor of .00209 equals an interest rate of 5.02%, which I submit does not qualify as a "promotional rate". As I previously posted, the interest rate on the Accord EX is less than 1.5%.
The market, not the dealers, will decide if there will be discounting on the '08 MDX.
JeffK
Thanks JeffK.. so far I have been reading and reading (and reading).. and as of now it seems like the wise thing is wait for the 2008's... even if I have to rent a car for a month to get by.. its going to cost me almost the same as the lease + Insurance..
oh the dilema's a car buying..
is it even possible that the dealer is getting delivery from the factory of a MY2007 on August 10th? |
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| JeffK |
is it even possible that the dealer is getting delivery from the factory of a MY2007 on August 10th?
I have no idea at all.
JeffK |
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| gmc74 |
Welcome to the board.
If you are leasing, you are much better off waiting as jbiz pointed out.
I wouldn't be concerned with the dealers "price fixing", they have already lied about when the vehicle will hit the lot, I am sure they are lieing about this as well as a number of other things.
If you know you want an MDX, you are probably better off renting a car for a week or two, instead of getting an 07 on a lease. |
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| JeffK |
Just went to the Acura website. Here is what I found under special lease deals:
Subject to limited availability. Through 9/4/2007, to approved lessees by American Honda Finance Corp. Closed end lease for 2007 MDX Automatic Transmission vehicles (Model YD2827JNW), for well qualified lessees. Not all lessees will qualify. Higher lease rates apply for lessees with lower credit ratings. MSRP $40,665.00 (includes destination) less the capitalized cost reduction (which may be paid by the suggested dealer contribution) resulting in actual net capitalized cost $37,341.62. Dealer contribution may vary and could affect actual lease payment. Taxes, license, title fees, options and insurance extra. Total monthly payments $17,964.00. Option to purchase at lease end $23,992.35. Lessee responsible for maintenance, excessive wear/tear and 15 cents/mi. over 10,000 miles/year for vehicles with MSRP less than $30,000, but for vehicles with MSRP of $30,000 or more, mileage cost is 20 cents/mi. over 10,000 miles/year. See dealer for complete details.
This is a residual of: 59% for three years, 10,000 miles per year.
Please note: Special lease is through 9/4, so I doubt that the '08 will be in the dealer's showroom before then and that the cap cost reduction may be paid by the dealer. I have not heard of a dealer paying the cap cost reduction, but since invoice is $36,936 a selling price of $37,341 still gives the dealer a profit of $400 plus holdback.
I do not know what the dealer means by a promotional rate through "7/31", although at the end of the month, dealers will usually make their best deals.
I assume similar lease deals are available for the non-base MDX. But keep in mind, that residuals as percentages are less on the Sport and Technology packages.
Hope this helps.
JeffK |
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| kph3 |
| It is possible to get a new 2007 off the line......I was looking for a black/taupe sport and I told dealer it had to be with a mfg. date after 05/07. He emailed me that one was scheduled this week......delivery about 8/10. |
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| crazymjb |
Well it appears we are finally going to buy the X tomorrow. Apparently they have 2.9% financing for 36 months and 4.9% for 60 months through Sunday.
is 05/07 the date they revised the rear head restraints?
Mike |
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| hipcheck |
Here are the MDX lease rates as of 7/8:
ACURA Captive Lease Programs – Effective 7/8/07
2007 Acura MDX
24 Month – Residual 64% of MSRP – .00385 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 56% of MSRP – .00290 Base Rate
48 Month – Residual 46% of MSRP – .00265 Base Rate
60 Month – Residual 35% of MSRP – .00275 Base Rate
2007 Acura MDX Sport
24 Month – Residual 59% of MSRP – .00385 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 53% of MSRP – .00290 Base Rate
48 Month – Residual 43% of MSRP – .00265 Base Rate
60 Month – Residual 32% of MSRP – .00275 Base Rate
2007 Acura MDX Sport w/ Entertainment
24 Month – Residual 58% of MSRP – .00385 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 52% of MSRP – .00290 Base Rate
48 Month – Residual 42% of MSRP – .00265 Base Rate
60 Month – Residual 32% of MSRP – .00275 Base Rate
2007 Acura MDX Tech
24 Month – Residual 61% of MSRP – .00385 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 54% of MSRP – .00290 Base Rate
48 Month – Residual 44% of MSRP – .00265 Base Rate
60 Month – Residual 34% of MSRP – .00275 Base Rate
2007 Acura MDX Tech w/ Entertainment
24 Month – Residual 61% of MSRP – .00385 Base Rate
36 Month – Residual 53% of MSRP – .00290 Base Rate
48 Month – Residual 43% of MSRP – .00265 Base Rate
60 Month – Residual 33% of MSRP – .00275 Base Rate
Residuals posted are for 15K miles/year. Add 2% to Residual for 12k mi/yr and 3% for 10k mi/yr on all terms |
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by crazymjb
Well it appears we are finally going to buy the X tomorrow. Apparently they have 2.9% financing for 36 months and 4.9% for 60 months through Sunday.
is 05/07 the date they revised the rear head restraints?
Mike
\
Don't let him fool you, that financing is on all Acura's until 9/4/2007
If you go to Yahoo Autos, click any Acura, and look at Cash Back/Special Financing it will show you the terms here is the LINK |
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| phins2rt |
quote:
Originally posted by crazymjb
is 05/07 the date they revised the rear head restraints?
Mike
I believe it was on cars produced after May. |
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| m500 |
| I don't remember if this was ask before or not. But would Acura update it for any X owner that do not have the updated one? |
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| jbiz |
quote:
Originally posted by gmc74
Welcome to the board.
If you are leasing, you are much better off waiting as jbiz pointed out.
I wouldn't be concerned with the dealers "price fixing", they have already lied about when the vehicle will hit the lot, I am sure they are lieing about this as well as a number of other things.
If you know you want an MDX, you are probably better off renting a car for a week or two, instead of getting an 07 on a lease.
spoke with the dealer again about the lease on the 07 .. For some reason the numbers just dont add up.. they keep telling my I am wrong.. am I calculating it wrong? I used http://www.leaseguide.com/calc.htm
here is the info..
--MSRP on 07 Tech/Ent - 46,365
Agreed on Price - 42,595 (can probably get them down a few hundred more, for now this is where we are)
Doc fees - 206.50
tag fee - 354.00
money factor - .00209
sales tax rate: 7%
cap-reduction: 2,500 (lets leave that for another conversation)
trade-in: none
with tax included in both, I show 598.35, but they show 643.64
am I missing something?
anyone have any ideas? I still think I will likely wait for th 08, but, want to at least have my number straight if I do go with the 07. |
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| JeffK |
I have found the lease calculator to be inaccurate on the tax.
For example in New York, Nassau county, the tax rate is 8.625%.
However to arrive at the monthly rate including tax, I use lease calculator without tax and to that number I multiply by 1.15.
This is because in New York, the interest on the tax is subject to tax and then you must pay interest on this as well.
By trial and error I have found that multiplying the monthly payment by 1.15 comes pretty close.
So here is what I would suggest: Get the dealer to give you a quote without the tax. Then run the lease calculator and see if the numbers are the same.
If not, compare his worksheet with yours.
JeffK |
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by jbiz
spoke with the dealer again about the lease on the 07 .. For some reason the numbers just dont add up.. they keep telling my I am wrong.. am I calculating it wrong? I used http://www.leaseguide.com/calc.htm
here is the info..
--MSRP on 07 Tech/Ent - 46,365
Agreed on Price - 42,595 (can probably get them down a few hundred more, for now this is where we are)
Doc fees - 206.50
tag fee - 354.00
sales tax rate: 7%
cap-reduction: 2,500 (lets leave that for another conversation)
trade-in: none
with tax included in both, I show 598.35, but they show 643.64
am I missing something?
anyone have any ideas? I still think I will likely wait for th 08, but, want to at least have my number straight if I do go with the 07.
When they write up the deal, and you have to sign all of the paper work, they have to make the numbers work out (either by raising the cost of the car or lowering the payment) go through the motions and see what happens, just keep your eye on the numbers. |
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| jbiz |
quote:
Originally posted by gmc74
When they write up the deal, and you have to sign all of the paper work, they have to make the numbers work out (either by raising the cost of the car or lowering the payment) go through the motions and see what happens, just keep your eye on the numbers.
yeah.. I am not really thrilled with the dealer right now anyway.. I went in on thursday and was there for an hour (did a test drive too).. but had to leave to go take over for the babysitter who was leaving.. I told them I wanted a black w/ taupe w/ tech/ent package and they didnt have one in stock, they said they were going to look for one.. I never heard from them again.. I emailed a few times (saw they read the email), and they never called me back or anything..
I finally called the Sales Manager this Afternoon and said.. I never knew with 4 days left in the month, it would be so hard to get you guys to sell me a car..especially when the 08's are just around the corner.. he was really not much better about it, said they "tried to contact me".. when I told him that is BS they had my cell#, he then changed his story to "oh, they couldnt find the car and were waiting to see if they could get one.. then all of a sudden the "promotional money factor" (see below) was now extended thru and they are getting the exact car I want on aug 10th and if I wanted to put down a deposit I could have it... umm why didnt THEY return my calls then..
so I am now talking to another dealer about 10 minutes in the opposite direction.. both are the basically the same distance from me.
oh.. and btw.. i edited the post above as I forgot the money factor.. seems they have .00209 (instead of .00290) for 36 month leases thru the end of August (was originally thru the end of july, and now "extended")..
I still think I am going to wait for the 2008.. I am hoping I can get it for the same lease price (like 600-650/month).. |
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| malyel |
| Took the MDX in to the dealership today for an oil change and was excited when I saw a car carrier unloading new MDX's. I went over to see the window stickers and was disappointed to see they were 2007's. |
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| phins2rt |
quote:
Originally posted by malyel
Took the MDX in to the dealership today for an oil change and was excited when I saw a car carrier unloading new MDX's. I went over to see the window stickers and was disappointed to see they were 2007's.
If the 08s are not on their web site you won't see them at the dealers. I'm thinking it won't be until September or early October. We'll see. |
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