| laborlitigator |
Well, it's that time of year again. Looks like the AFC is head and shoulders above the NFC with powerhouses like the Colts, Pats and Chargers.
And as usual, my Gints are already snakebitten with 4 injuries and the season has yet to start. |
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| laborlitigator |
My preseason picks:
AFC:
Bengals
Colts
Jets
Chargers
Wild Card:
Pats
Broncos
NFC:
Eagles
Bears
Panthers
49ers
Wild Card:
Seahawks
Saints |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
My preseason picks:
AFC:
Bengals
Colts
Jets
Chargers
Wild Card:
Pats
Broncos
NFC:
Eagles
Bears
Panthers
49ers
Wild Card:
Seahawks
Saints
Jets finish over Pats?????
Bengals finish over Colts???
Pretty bold predictions at this point.
Not sure about the Bolts...with Norv Turner, they could sink as easily as improve. |
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| laborlitigator |
Those are the division winners. Not final standings.
Pats have to have a down year once in awhile. |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
.
"Those are the division winners. Not final standings"
Thats my point...to think that the Bengals will win the division over the Colts and the Jets over the Pats based on info available today is foolish.
"Pats have to have a down year once in awhile."
I agree, however, last year was it. |
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| keremoner |
Are you drunk, laborlitigator? No one helped themselves more than Pats in the off season. On paper, they are solid in every position (except the question of Asante Samuel being resigned)
Any and all sports writers with sense are predicting this to be the year of Patriots because, on paper, it is! Of course no one knows what will happen with injuries, etc. but you cannot possibly factor such unknowns in to your predictions.
Cincy, and SD will be good but not good enough. Indy, on the other hand, will not repeat for simple reason: Last year their defense finally came alive during playoffs to complement their potent offense. Then they played the Pats at home - a team with no reciever corps to speak off whose defense (misiing key players) fell asleep in the game!! Yet Indy barely beat Pats by 3 points. Now add to that the fact that Pats had a superior off season (personnel moves wise). They are solid in every offensive and defensive category, with arguably the best QB and coach in NFL and experience to boot.
How in god's name can you not pick the Pats is beyond me.:rolleyes: |
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| laborlitigator |
Just like my beloved Yanks, Pats may have shot their wad and have gone through their run.
Pats should have lost the San Diego game but not for Marty screwing up the play calling, again. As for the Colts game, you had that in hand and gave it away. Pats win those games in the past.
As for the receiving corp, let me see them first. Plus, you need Samuels. |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
let me see them first. Plus, you need Samuels.
He' back in. Reports are he will be in uniform early next week.
It was hard to imagine he would leave 7.8 million on the table. |
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| keremoner |
| Mark my words: Pats will reign supreme or I will never preach about football again. Oh by the way, like in 2004, BoSox will also reign supreme. Oh, and believe it or not, Celtics are given a good chance, but I'll believe that when I see it. Bruins will as usual suck. |
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| laborlitigator |
Well, you just lost your safety for the 1st 4 games. . .
Makes you wonder why people aren't in a uproar when its football players. |
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| CoLa |
I love the rants and rivals. This is by far my favorite time of year. Summer starts cooling down, the leaves start to change and FOOTBALL!
It might be fun to do a fantasy league with just X'ers. Any interest? |
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| laborlitigator |
| I'm in. . . |
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| keremoner |
Harrison or not, Pats just showed that they are awesome and at a different level than anyone else in NFL this year. No one comes close, not even Indy. Mark my words, you will see......
Even last year, as I said before, they were better than anyone else even with no reciever corps and a depleted defense at the end of the year and had they any of their weapons that they have now, they would have easily rolled over Indy.
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Well, you just lost your safety for the 1st 4 games. . .
Makes you wonder why people aren't in a uproar when its football players.
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
Harrison or not, Pats just showed that they are awesome and at a different level than anyone else in NFL this year. No one comes close, not even Indy. Mark my words, you will see......
Even last year, as I said before, they were better than anyone else even with no reciever corps and a depleted defense at the end of the year and had they any of their weapons that they have now, they would have easily rolled over Indy.
K,
Nice win over the Jets. My Gints got blown out bigtime. Looks like a long year for the NYC area.
As for your Pats, remember, they still blew the biggest lead in AFC championship history. |
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| keremoner |
Agreed. I think that was more of a reflection on the poor coaching decisions. True that they had no recievers and they had key injuries, but they still had a lead and should have won. I credit Indy for not giving up. This year, however, will be different. I predict they will finish with a record of at least 12-4, most likely 13-3, and roll over everyone in AFC before blowing out the unfortunate NFC team which makes it to the SB.
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
As for your Pats, remember, they still blew the biggest lead in AFC championship history.
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| Maik |
To me, the most impressive part of yesterday's Pats game was not Randy or Brady, but the offensive line which gave Brady enough time to eat a 3 course meal while surveying the Jets d backfield looking for an open receiver.
I dont think he will have that much time next week. |
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
To me, the most impressive part of yesterday's Pats game was not Randy or Brady, but the offensive line which gave Brady enough time to eat a 3 course meal while surveying the Jets d backfield looking for an open receiver.
I dont think he will have that much time next week.
I am a Jets fan, and it hurts me to say this, but I wouldn't measure the quality of the Off line based on yesterday, the Jets were lack luster to say the least.
I am looking forward to week 3, when the Jets aren't playing a defensive juggernaut...
By the way, the Giants cost me my football pool! Bastards! |
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| keremoner |
Next week will be a little tougher but facing the Pats this year is a little like an unknown boxer in a local gym facing Mike Tyson at his prime. Any Pats loss this year will be considered an upset. They have absolutely no reason to not steamroll over any team out there. This is the best Pats team ever and last year they learned important lessons. Go Pats and Sox. This is a repeat of 2004. Both are championship material.
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
To me, the most impressive part of yesterday's Pats game was not Randy or Brady, but the offensive line which gave Brady enough time to eat a 3 course meal while surveying the Jets d backfield looking for an open receiver.
I dont think he will have that much time next week.
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| gdot |
How abou them 'Hawks? The offense started out slow, but knocked the rust off by the second half and their defense was out there fllying around.
I'm looking forward to a Seattle vs. New England superbowl this year. |
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| keremoner |
I think you may just get your wish.
quote:
Originally posted by gdot
I'm looking forward to a Seattle vs. New England superbowl this year.
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| laborlitigator |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
I think you may just get your wish.
I still like San Diego. I just wish they got a real coach. |
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| keremoner |
First lets see how they do next weekend.
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
I still like San Diego. I just wish they got a real coach.
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| MDteX |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
Next week will be a little tougher but facing the Pats this year is a little like an unknown boxer in a local gym facing Mike Tyson at his prime. Any Pats loss this year will be considered an upset. They have absolutely no reason to not steamroll over any team out there. This is the best Pats team ever and last year they learned important lessons. Go Pats and Sox. This is a repeat of 2004. Both are championship material.
Did you mean steamroll or videotape??!! If you can't beat 'em then cheat 'em! |
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by MDteX
Did you mean steamroll or videotape??!! If you can't beat 'em then cheat 'em!
It just goes to show you, if you aren't cheating, you aren't trying! |
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| keremoner |
| Cheating is unfortunately rampant in NFL from what I understand (that is why most coaches cover their mouths when talking on the field). Bellichick's crew was rather inept at it I guess. To me, they are still arguably the best team out there this year. |
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| laborlitigator |
Makes you wonder what else the Pats have done to cheat there way to titles.
Perhaps tapping into the playcalling on the offensive side. Knowing the Pats, it would hardly surprise me.
This goes beyond gamesmanship. . . |
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| keremoner |
I would think the impact of videotaping would be minimal. You cannot possibly adjust to the opponents game plan as you get it play by play to benefit you in a significant way. Maybe it would help you next time you face your opponent but by then, you can watch the video tape of the game and learn all the same things you learned by reading lips.
All that aside, it explains why Bellichick has a bigger and more complex game plan book than anyone else in NFL. He doesn't want to make it easy on opponents to predict your plays.
What they did was illegal but not too effective anyways. Also, isn't it the responsibility of your offensive coaches to not give away your plays by not covering their mouths, etc?
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Makes you wonder what else the Pats have done to cheat there way to titles.
Perhaps tapping into the playcalling on the offensive side. Knowing the Pats, it would hardly surprise me.
This goes beyond gamesmanship. . .
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| laborlitigator |
| Nice try. Where there is smoke there is fire. |
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| keremoner |
I'm not trying to excuse them. They broke the rules and will pay a price. My argument is that it is not an effective way to cheat. I can see stealing your opponents play books prior to the game. That would be effective, but reading lips is clearly not. How can you read lips, pass the info to defensive coordinators, they formulate a response, response is conveyed to the players on the field -- all within a few seconds? Ridiculous. This is a feel good rule that does nothing, like so many others.
quote:
Originally posted by laborlitigator
Nice try. Where there is smoke there is fire.
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| gdot |
| I think I read somewhere that the Pats were stealing the opponents defensive signals. If that's the case, the offense would definitely benefit from knowing what coverage they are using or if they were blitzing and so on. |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
I'm not trying to excuse them. They broke the rules and will pay a price. My argument is that it is not an effective way to cheat. I can see stealing your opponents play books prior to the game. That would be effective, but reading lips is clearly not. How can you read lips, pass the info to defensive coordinators, they formulate a response, response is conveyed to the players on the field -- all within a few seconds? Ridiculous. This is a feel good rule that does nothing, like so many others.
You are very wrong. With a little help, Brady would be better able to identify a blitz or other coverage.
The other problem with your logic is to suggest Belichick is an idiot. Yoy think he would take such a risk if there was not much to gain? |
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| laborlitigator |
| Maybe after blowing a 21-3 lead has forced Belicheck overboard. |
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| laborlitigator |
| The NFL slapped Bill Belichick with a maximum fine of $500,000 Thursday for videotaping Jets defensive signals. The Pats were fined $250,000 and will lose a 2008 first-round pick if they reach the playoffs, or second- and third-round picks if they miss the playoffs. |
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| JimH |
I think Belichek acted like an idiot--why break the rules/cheat when you have a great team and players going for you every year.
He has cost his team a 1st round draft pick for next year now in addition to losing some credibility from players/coaches.
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/foot...unishment_N.htm |
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| keremoner |
| Losing the first round draft pick isn't that critical because they still have the first round pick they got from San Francisco. The pick that they lost would probably be the 32nd pick anyways. |
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| Maik |
Shaun Merriman has to be one of the dumbest jerks I have ever seen. In last nites game, his team down 24-0 and getting pummeled, he goes through his spastic "dance" after making a tackle.
Note to Shaun, next time you make a play, act like you have done it before.
PS...this Pats team may well be the best team in years. And they are missing two of their best defensive players (Harrison and Seymor) |
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| JimH |
| It looked like Brady and Moss were just playing toss and catch like they were on a school playground---very impressive display at QB and receiver. |
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| Maik |
I expected the Bolts to double up on Moss and for Stallworth to have a big game. Surprised at how much room Moss was given.
I wonder how many Bolts fans wish Marty was back? Norv is what his record says he is. |
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
Losing the first round draft pick isn't that critical because they still have the first round pick they got from San Francisco. The pick that they lost would probably be the 32nd pick anyways.
This is in response to your earlier post, I was too lazy to go back a page to quote it.
They do this against a team that they face twice, in order to match the signal (defensive signals are not called in on a headset, they are hand signals) with the defense they are running. For example, tapping the head means Safety blitz, etc. They can then review this information after the fact, to make sure they have the signals accurately mapped out to the defense, then in the next game against that team, they know with relatively high certainty, what the defense is doing.
This is a huge advantage, which is why the penalty was so extreme. A first round pick, towards the end of the first round, is still a huge pick. Any pick in the NFL is huge, Brady was a 6th round pick...
I think Belichek was stupid to do it against the Jets, for two reasons.
1) Eric Mangini used to be a coach with NE, so he knows what to look for.
2) The Jets suck (yes, I am a Jets fan) and the Pats don't need the help to beat them twice... |
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| keremoner |
I agree that what Bellichick did was wrong. That said, during the game network cameras regularly catch glimpse of coaches sending signals. What is to stop the opposing team from watching the tape and the plays and matching the signals with the plays that they go?? Or, what is to stop them from just looking across the field and jotting down the signals and then matching them to the plays? Is it illegal to look across the field and take notes also? As I said before, this is ridiculous IMO. It is up to the coaches to make their game plan a little more complex and their signals less obvious.
After Sunday night's game, I will repeat it again: Videotaping or not Pats are so superior to other teams and so deep that this WILL be their year. I am not saying 16-0 but I wouldn't be surprised if they came close. They are the best team in NFL in a looong time. |
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| JimH |
One can take polaroids , write notes, etc., but the NFL rules specify that the teams can not use any video recording device. Belichek is just a little slow on the uptake or cannot read. That said, I concur that the Pats are a well-oiled machine this year.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=662672 |
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| keremoner |
This is exactly why I say it is a moronic rule. You can accomplish the same thing as taping by taking pictures and notes and matching them to the plays. This rule is like saying "you can cheat but just don't do it this particular way"
Anyways, this was a good thing for Pats because it fired them up to prove that they don't need to cheat to win. Personally I am looking forward to the rematch with Indy. Can't wait till we dismantle them as well (unless of course a catastrophic event occurs, like both Brady and Moss going down for the season.
quote:
Originally posted by JimH
One can take polaroids , write notes, etc., but the NFL rules specify that the teams can not use any video recording device. Belichek is just a little slow on the uptake or cannot read. That said, I concur that the Pats are a well-oiled machine this year.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=662672
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
This is exactly why I say it is a moronic rule. You can accomplish the same thing as taping by taking pictures and notes and matching them to the plays. This rule is like saying "you can cheat but just don't do it this particular way"
Anyways, this was a good thing for Pats because it fired them up to prove that they don't need to cheat to win. Personally I am looking forward to the rematch with Indy. Can't wait till we dismantle them as well (unless of course a catastrophic event occurs, like both Brady and Moss going down for the season.
You can't accomplish the exact same thing, you can come close with the reallity of human error coming into play... i.e. you miss a signal, write it down wrong, etc.
A rule is a rule is a rule, whether one agrees with it or not, that doesn't change the fact that it is a rule that must be followed.
Surely you understand that there is a difference between a video camera pointed at a guy calling plays, and someone writing down the complicated signals that they are seeing from 50 yards away. They cheated, they got caught, they got punished, move on... no big deal.
Indy is going to take another one this year, so I wouldn't get too excited in pat land... |
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| keremoner |
If they are going to take another one as you say, they sure did not look like it their first two games. I am assuming you know football. As a knowledgeable person, looking at the Pat's depth and completeness as a team, it is beyond me how anyone can pick Indy over the Pats. San Diego, who was considered perhaps the most 'complete' team till Sunday looked like a college team against the Pats. In every position they excell, down to their bench. That is why if you bothered to read the 'experts' in ESPN, etc. yesterday and today, on the most part they have all but conceded that this is Pat's year. I guess I will have to wait till January to tell you I told you so.
quote:
Originally posted by gmc74
Indy is going to take another one this year, so I wouldn't get too excited in pat land...
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| keremoner |
If they are going to take another one as you say, they sure did not look like it their first two games. I am assuming you know football. As a knowledgeable person, looking at the Pat's depth and completeness as a team, it is beyond me how anyone can pick Indy over the Pats. San Diego, who was considered perhaps the most 'complete' team till Sunday looked like a college team against the Pats. In every position they excell, down to their bench. Defense is solid (though not outstanding yet), and offense is nothing short of fantastic - I dare say better than any 1980's 49ers teams. That is why if you bothered to read the 'experts' in ESPN, etc. yesterday and today, on the most part they have all but conceded that this is Pat's year. I guess I will have to wait till January to tell you I told you so.
quote:
Originally posted by gmc74
Indy is going to take another one this year, so I wouldn't get too excited in pat land...
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
That is why if you bothered to read the 'experts' in ESPN, etc. yesterday and today, on the most part they have all but conceded that this is Pat's year. I guess I will have to wait till January to tell you I told you so.
Ah, "the experts"... the same people who thought it was Indy's year two years ago, the same people who keep thinking the Yankees will win because they added (enter high priced free agent here), don't forget the USSR Hockey team in the 1980 olympics, Michigan will beat App St and that Baltimore would beat the Jets in Superbowl III... :rolleyes:
I think that Indy proved that a high powered offense can over come a lacking defense, they did it that way last year, and they are poised to do it again. The talent of Peyton Manning can overcome a lot of hurdles, like not having a top tier running back.
I think we are going to need to play the season out, pre-season predictions hardly ever come true.
The Patriots added some extra talent to an already talented team, but is that enough to get them past the drive and determination of the defending superbowl champions? I don't know, I will tell you in February.
Next you will tell me that Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback to ever play the game... :confused: |
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| keremoner |
Indy barely beat a Pats team that had no reciever corp to speak of and a crippled defense. This is a vastly better Pats team in every position (except kicker) this year.
I will not tell you that Brady is the greatest QB to ever play but he has won more in his first 4 years (2001-2005) than anyone did before.
quote:
Originally posted by gmc74
I think that Indy proved that a high powered offense can over come a lacking defense, they did it that way last year, and they are poised to do it again. The talent of Peyton Manning can overcome a lot of hurdles, like not having a top tier running back.
I think we are going to need to play the season out, pre-season predictions hardly ever come true.
The Patriots added some extra talent to an already talented team, but is that enough to get them past the drive and determination of the defending superbowl champions? I don't know, I will tell you in February.
Next you will tell me that Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback to ever play the game... :confused:
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| Maik |
No question that right now, Indy and the Pats are the top two teams. I have 11/4/07 circled on my calendar as these two teams play at Indy...selfishly, I hope the Pats win so that the rematch (in the playoffs) is in Foxboro and I can go to that one.
To think that either team is a lock right now is foolhardy. Thats why they play the games. Pats have looked very good so far, but there is lots of football to be played. It really does not matter who is hot at the beginning of the season, but who is hot at tournament time. |
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| keremoner |
spoken like the diplomat that you are Maik.
I am getting nervous about the Red Sox. Pitching staff seems to be running out of gas at the absolute worst possible time. |
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| MDteX |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
If they are going to take another one as you say, they sure did not look like it their first two games. I am assuming you know football. As a knowledgeable person, looking at the Pat's depth and completeness as a team, it is beyond me how anyone can pick Indy over the Pats. San Diego, who was considered perhaps the most 'complete' team till Sunday looked like a college team against the Pats. In every position they excell, down to their bench. That is why if you bothered to read the 'experts' in ESPN, etc. yesterday and today, on the most part they have all but conceded that this is Pat's year. I guess I will have to wait till January to tell you I told you so.
Hell let's just wrap up the season and call it quits! The 'experts' have said the cheating Pats will win it all. I'm glad all the underdogs don't listen to them. (like the Namath Jets, etc.)
I think someone once said "that is why they play the game." If you are discounting Indy after 2 games then you don't know anything about football.
I know Michigan is wishing the 'experts' were right about their game with Appalachian State. |
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
No question that right now, Indy and the Pats are the top two teams. I have 11/4/07 circled on my calendar as these two teams play at Indy...selfishly, I hope the Pats win so that the rematch (in the playoffs) is in Foxboro and I can go to that one.
To think that either team is a lock right now is foolhardy. Thats why they play the games. Pats have looked very good so far, but there is lots of football to be played. It really does not matter who is hot at the beginning of the season, but who is hot at tournament time.
I agree completely, that game will be great! There are so many variables in an NFL season, we can all make our predictions, but no one knows who will be the team on top in the end. |
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| keremoner |
As evidenced by Sunday night's game, Pats don't need to cheat to win. I agree that Bellichick was overly eager and over stepped the boundaries of acceptable behavior as defined by NFL rules. I also agree that you never know what will happen during the course of the season and things can change. My view of Pats undisputable strength is only true now. Injuries, team morale, how other teams will adjust to Pat's game plans, etc. will determine how things shake out. My prediction is a spectacular season punctuated with a SB win. Remember, it is only a prediction. Whatever happens, they will still go down as the team of the '00's
quote:
Originally posted by MDteX
Hell let's just wrap up the season and call it quits! The 'experts' have said the cheating Pats will win it all. I'm glad all the underdogs don't listen to them. (like the Namath Jets, etc.)
I think someone once said "that is why they play the game." If you are discounting Indy after 2 games then you don't know anything about football.
I know Michigan is wishing the 'experts' were right about their game with Appalachian State.
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
As evidenced by Sunday night's game, Pats don't need to cheat to win. I agree that Bellichick was overly eager and over stepped the boundaries of acceptable behavior as defined by NFL rules. I also agree that you never know what will happen during the course of the season and things can change. My view of Pats undisputable strength is only true now. Injuries, team morale, how other teams will adjust to Pat's game plans, etc. will determine how things shake out. My prediction is a spectacular season punctuated with a SB win. Remember, it is only a prediction. Whatever happens, they will still go down as the team of the '00's
I know you are a Patriots fan, but is it that hard to say they broke the rules and cheated?
I agree that Bellichick was overly eager and over stepped the boundaries of acceptable behavior as defined by NFL rules.
He broke a rule that he knew he was braking, he got caught before. Why he feels he needs to, I don't know... but he got caught cheating... |
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| keremoner |
Allright, he was cheating!!
quote:
Originally posted by gmc74
I know you are a Patriots fan, but is it that hard to say they broke the rules and cheated?
I agree that Bellichick was overly eager and over stepped the boundaries of acceptable behavior as defined by NFL rules.
He broke a rule that he knew he was braking, he got caught before. Why he feels he needs to, I don't know... but he got caught cheating...
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| MDteX |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
Allright, he was cheating!!
Attaboy keremoner!
I agree the Pats will be the team of the 00's unless Indy happens to win the next 3 in a row which is highly unlikely. |
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| keremoner |
Life is good in Pats land. Brady is on course to break NFL passing and TD records, Moss is happy and productive, absence of Seymour and Harrison are not felt even a little bit, Brady and Moss resemble Montana and Rice tandem to a T.
Now, only if the Sox got their act together!! |
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
Life is good in Pats land. Brady is on course to break NFL passing and TD records, Moss is happy and productive, absence of Seymour and Harrison are not felt even a little bit, Brady and Moss resemble Montana and Rice tandem to a T.
Now, only if the Sox got their act together!!
Wouldn't that be Manning and Harrison tandem? They are destroying the records set by Montana and Rice. Sure, Harrison won't get to some of Rice's records, but Montana (or Brady for that matter) doesn't even show up on the NFL's Passing Records page (link)
Harrison/Manning - in nine seasons together, they have combined for 106 touchdowns, 878 completions and 11,908 yards, all N.F.L. records for a quarterback-receiver tandem |
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| Maik |
Tad early to speak intelligently about Brady to Moss. I will say, hoever, as a long time NFL fan and a long time Pats season ticket holder, I have seen a lot of receivers over the years (mostly visiting players). Moss is truly a pleasure to watch. I have never seen a receiver as gifted in all respects. To watch him run his routes... as he glides past defensive backs with hands so soft, he makes every catch seem effortless.
Its also obvious that he loves being a Patriot. |
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| keremoner |
Ehem... That is 11.8 TD completions per season (including play offs) At this rate Brady/Moss will reach that total in 5 or so years
quote:
Originally posted by gmc74
Harrison/Manning - in nine seasons together, they have combined for 106 touchdowns, 878 completions and 11,908 yards, all N.F.L. records for a quarterback-receiver tandem
:2: |
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| gdot |
A little :topic: but I am jealous of you Bostonians/New Englander's right now. The Red Sox are in the playoffs, Pats are 4-0 and the Celtics are in training camp and are being picked to challenge for the Eastern Conference finals. :eek:
While my Mariners, with their big payroll, aren't in the playoffs again and the Sonics are rebuilding and by the time they become good might be the Oklahoma Sonics. :(
At least I have the Seahawks.:yesyes: |
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
Ehem... That is 11.8 TD completions per season (including play offs) At this rate Brady/Moss will reach that total in 5 or so years
:2:
Wow, that may be the most absurd thing I have ever heard. 5 years? Even a homer like you has to understand that the likelyhood of these two players being on the same team, performing at their peak levels, let alone even in the league in five seasons is a stretch. To claim that they will break a record that took, arguably the greatest quarterback in the league today, 9 years to create, is absurd. To break this record in 5 years, all they have to do is set the record for the most touchdowns caught by a receiver 5 times (well technically, tie it 4 times and fall short by 1 once), I am sure that seems likely... not...
Since I know you are going to question the "greatest quarterback in the league today" comment, I did put arguably... and the arguments are simple -
Manning led the league in passing the past 3 seasons
-has the second highest career passer rating in NFL history
-has the highest passer rating for a season ever in NFL history
-hed the league in passing touchdowns two of the last 3 seasons
-has the record for most touchdown passes in a season
I think the more realistic answer is that Moss will revert back to being a lazy thug after the honeymoon period wears off. Has he started taking running plays off yet? Don't worry, he will... he will just sit there and look, like he did in Minnesota and Oakland.
That is reality, you may want to stop chugging the Kool Ade, the sugar is clouding your thought process. |
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| Maik |
Ker,
Enjoy the Brady to Moss combo. Its very likely to be a one year thing.
Moss's contract is basically a one year deal. The Pats have an option for next year at $11million. My guess is if the Pats win it this year, Moss will be gone.
As for being a sports fan here...yup its a great time in Beantown. Reminds me of 1985 when the Pats made it tothe Super Bowl. the Sox were in the series, the Celts won the championship and the Bruins went to the Cup finals. 2004 was a good year as well. |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by gmc74
I think the more realistic answer is that Moss will revert back to being a lazy thug after the honeymoon period wears off. Has he started taking running plays off yet? Don't worry, he will... he will just sit there and look, like he did in Minnesota and Oakland.
That is reality, you may want to stop chugging the Kool Ade, the sugar is clouding your thought process.
I dont think that will happen with the Pats...far to much peer pressure for him to revert, plus I believe he actually has respect for his coach and teammates |
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| keremoner |
I know that what I said is absurd because Moss will not be there long enough. My point was comparing the average of their 4 game stats against the average of the 9 years for Montana/Rice, which is not a fair comparison. As far as Manning goes, you can talk till you are blue in the face but in my book, Brady is a better QB. The simple reasons are that he is on a team which over the past 5 years has been a more balanced team between running and passing (therefore on paper his stats in some of the areas you point are less impressive), and he plays for Bellichick and the Pats - the team with the most complex game plans in NFL that change every week and require all players (not only Brady) to be something akin to football scholars. Ah,before I forget, another reason: 3-1 (that would be the SBs won over the past 6 years) Manning and the Colts are very good but they will only be a truly great team to be remembered in my view if they manage to win it this year.
quote:
Originally posted by gmc74
Wow, that may be the most absurd thing I have ever heard. 5 years? Even a homer like you has to understand that the likelyhood of these two players being on the same team, performing at their peak levels, let alone even in the league in five seasons is a stretch. To claim that they will break a record that took, arguably the greatest quarterback in the league today, 9 years to create, is absurd. To break this record in 5 years, all they have to do is set the record for the most touchdowns caught by a receiver 5 times (well technically, tie it 4 times and fall short by 1 once), I am sure that seems likely... not...
Since I know you are going to question the "greatest quarterback in the league today" comment, I did put arguably... and the arguments are simple -
Manning led the league in passing the past 3 seasons
-has the second highest career passer rating in NFL history
-has the highest passer rating for a season ever in NFL history
-hed the league in passing touchdowns two of the last 3 seasons
-has the record for most touchdown passes in a season
I think the more realistic answer is that Moss will revert back to being a lazy thug after the honeymoon period wears off. Has he started taking running plays off yet? Don't worry, he will... he will just sit there and look, like he did in Minnesota and Oakland.
That is reality, you may want to stop chugging the Kool Ade, the sugar is clouding your thought process.
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
I know that what I said is absurd because Moss will not be there long enough. My point was comparing the average of their 4 game stats against the average of the 9 years for Montana/Rice, which is not a fair comparison. As far as Manning goes, you can talk till you are blue in the face but in my book, Brady is a better QB. The simple reasons are that he is on a team which over the past 5 years has been a more balanced team between running and passing (therefore on paper his stats in some of the areas you point are less impressive), and he plays for Bellichick and the Pats - the team with the most complex game plans in NFL that change every week and require all players (not only Brady) to be something akin to football scholars. Ah,before I forget, another reason: 3-1 (that would be the SBs won over the past 6 years) Manning and the Colts are very good but they will only be a truly great team to be remembered in my view if they manage to win it this year.
I don't think you can judge the level of a QB by how well a team does alone, if that were the case, Doug Williams would be in the Hall of Fame.
To say that Brady is more cerebral than Manning is crazy. Complex game plan? How about the only quarterback that doesn't have the plays called for him, he is given 3 suggestions and he calls whatever play he wants. If Brady was so cerebral, why wouldn't the Patriots do this?
I can tell you why, he is a good decision maker, but not that good. He has good football skills, but the strength of that team is the team, not the player. The major strength of the Colts is Manning, the team is not as good overall as the Patriots, but as far as a QB goes, he is the best in the game.
The individual records prove this, with out a doubt. I don't expect you to agree, I know you are a huge homer and I understand that. But break into reality for a moment, you have already had to suck it up and realize you were wrong on absurd Moss/Brady statement, soon you will figure out this is ridiculous as well. |
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| Maik |
quote:
Originally posted by gmc74
I don't think you can judge the level of a QB by how well a team does alone, if that were the case, Doug Williams would be in the Hall of Fame.
To say that Brady is more cerebral than Manning is crazy. Complex game plan? How about the only quarterback that doesn't have the plays called for him, he is given 3 suggestions and he calls whatever play he wants. If Brady was so cerebral, why wouldn't the Patriots do this?
I can tell you why, he is a good decision maker, but not that good. He has good football skills, but the strength of that team is the team, not the player. The major strength of the Colts is Manning, the team is not as good overall as the Patriots, but as far as a QB goes, he is the best in the game.
The individual records prove this, with out a doubt. I don't expect you to agree, I know you are a huge homer and I understand that. But break into reality for a moment, you have already had to suck it up and realize you were wrong on absurd Moss/Brady statement, soon you will figure out this is ridiculous as well.
Interesting argument but is Brady a better qb this year than last? His numbers would seem to say so, but he has a group of real receivers to work with this year. Because its a team game, its always subjective as to how good is a player. I am not sure at all that Manning is better, just because he has had a very good group of receivers to throw to. If Manning was a Patriot would they have won more championships? I doubt it. I see the two qb's as very equal. |
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
The simple reasons are that he is on a team which over the past 5 years has been a more balanced team between running and passing (therefore on paper his stats in some of the areas you point are less impressive),
Let's look at the numbers and see much more balanced they are over the last five years -
Regular Season Stats: 2002 - 2006
Manning - Attempts - 2664, Completions - 1774, Comp % - 66.64, 21168 Yards, 164 TDs, Average QB Rating of 102.8
Brady - Attempts - 2648, Completions - 1631, Comp % - 61.58, 18715 Yards, 129 TDs, Average QB Rating of 88.88
Looking at these numbers, over the course of 80 games, Manning attempted a whopping 16 more passes! The only thing balanced here is their Attempts, everything else is completely lopsided in the favor of Manning.
Completed 143 more passes on 16 more attempts
Threw for over 2400 yards more
Threw 35 additional TDs
Had an average QB Rating 14 points higher (Brady never hit a QB rating of 100 or more)
Just to round out the stats, let's look at the running game over that period of time -
The Pats averaged 1.7 more carries per game (Pats 29.1 vs Colts 27.4), 2 yards more per game (Pats 109.1 vs Colts 107.1) and .05 less TDs per game (Pats .86 Rushing TDs vs Colts .91)
I don't know about you, but these stats all seem balanced as far as a balanced attack from both teams go.
How about you stop talking out your ass now? You have been caught, and proven wrong 3 times. I say it is about time that you start researching your stats before you claim them to be true.
Oh btw, a little tid bit I learned when I was 10... your favorite team doesn't always contain the best player... your favorite player, maybe, but they aren't usually as great as you think they are.
Any other reasons you want to throw out there as to why Brady is a better QB than Manning? |
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
Interesting argument but is Brady a better qb this year than last? His numbers would seem to say so, but he has a group of real receivers to work with this year. Because its a team game, its always subjective as to how good is a player. I am not sure at all that Manning is better, just because he has had a very good group of receivers to throw to. If Manning was a Patriot would they have won more championships? I doubt it. I see the two qb's as very equal.
I tend to disagree about the equal, the stats speak volumes.
That being said, it is a team game, and I think if you look at the talent level on the Colts, vs that on the Patriots, the Offense has been relatively equal over the last few years, but the Colts defense has been horrible for much of the last 5 years. That being said, Manning has been able to score enough to ensure that they win regardless. |
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| keremoner |
Still a diplomat. Maik, all joking aside, you have a good knowledge of football. I am not the only one who is claiming that Pats have the most complex game plans and requires all players to have capacities to learn them. I've heard that from announcer after announcer after announcer (and analysts). I know gmc doesn't put any stock in them but what are your views on that? My point is that it is probably easier to look good (in raw stats) in a team with relatively simpler game plans.
gmc74, I am not a homer because I do not live in NE. I just know football. Just answer this question for me if you claim to know this sport. All these years (since 2001), Pats had no true super stars and most who came close were traded or cut (Law, Viniteri, etc.etc.) to the point that you can have a championship caliber team made up of them. Brady has been a constant. How then can you explain their continued success and dominance (with the exception of couple of years). Is it only Bellichick? If Manning is so great (and he is very good), and Indy doesn't have the habit of cutting their star players, why can't he dominate Brady and the Pats? I'll tell you my answer. It is because overall, Manning is no Brady, and will never be. And trust me, even last year, had Brady even one great reciever to go to, Indy would still be looking for its first championship.
quote:
Originally posted by Maik
Interesting argument but is Brady a better qb this year than last? His numbers would seem to say so, but he has a group of real receivers to work with this year. Because its a team game, its always subjective as to how good is a player. I am not sure at all that Manning is better, just because he has had a very good group of receivers to throw to. If Manning was a Patriot would they have won more championships? I doubt it. I see the two qb's as very equal.
:2: |
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by keremoner
Still a diplomat. Maik, all joking aside, you have a good knowledge of football. I am not the only one who is claiming that Pats have the most complex game plans and requires all players to have capacities to learn them. I've heard that from announcer after announcer after announcer (and analysts). I know gmc doesn't put any stock in them but what are your views on that? My point is that it is probably easier to look good (in raw stats) in a team with relatively simpler game plans.
gmc74, I am not a homer because I do not live in NE. I just know football. Just answer this question for me if you claim to know this sport. All these years (since 2001), Pats had no true super stars and most who came close were traded or cut (Law, Viniteri, etc.etc.) to the point that you can have a championship caliber team made up of them. Brady has been a constant. How then can you explain their continued success and dominance (with the exception of couple of years). Is it only Bellichick? If Manning is so great (and he is very good), and Indy doesn't have the habit of cutting their star players, why can't he dominate Brady and the Pats? I'll tell you my answer. It is because overall, Manning is no Brady, and will never be. And trust me, even last year, had Brady even one great reciever to go to, Indy would still be looking for its first championship.
:2:
I understand you don't live in New England now, but you used to I am sure... hence the love of all teams Boston.
I see you have given up on questions that can be proven wrong, and moved towards the subjective ones since I have thrown facts back at you that are undeniable.
As for no stars, I tend to disagree again.
First, Brady is a star, there is no doubt about it, he is just not the best as the statistics prove.
Corey Dillon was a star, a guy who challenged for the rushin | | | |
