| ExRiGuy |
I just picked up an 08 Buick Enclave (loaded CXL) for my wife to accompany my 07 MDX Sport. My thoughts for surfers and others who may be cross-shopping (even though they are slightly different animals).
Advantage MDX: More power and slightly better exhaust note, slightly better shifting and thinking tranny, better handling at 7/10 to 10/10 -- likely because of the weight difference, better sounding stereo and all around better NAV -- though I do like the Enclave's touch screen feature, and finally, import snobs admire you. :)
Advantage Enclave: Size -- much roomier and a better use of space with compartments etc., fit and finish is much better than the Acura so far (no misaligned interior parts, thumps and creaks, which, unfortunately, my MDX has), FAR QUIETER (almost unreal), interior (especially the dash) is a automotive work of art for the money and makes the MDX look spartan in comparison (my opinion) and has some wonderfully done subtle retro cues, far more bang for your buck -- more than 5 thousand less with same options, better ride up to 7/10 -- firm and controlled yet soaks up the bumps, exterior styling (personal preference), slightly better MPG despite the weight (likely due to 6 speed and programming), and finally, it 's pretty easy to pick up elderly "chicks."
As you can see, I am very impressed with the Enclave, and frankly, I think it is a better "family" vehicle. If the quality hangs with the Lexus as JD Power says it will, then this thing is nothing short of the rebirth of the American made family vehicle. |
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| noel |
| One of the big reasons I bought my 2007 MDX was remarks from many people about the very high quality of Acura automobiles. Well, after 5 months and several thousand miles, I'm hearing from someone who says the fit and finish in his new Buick Enclave is better than the Acura and, though I find it disappointing, I believe it. My MDX had trim issues from the day I bought it. Should have looked closer before taking delivery but, I didn't. So much for Acura's high quality and my compliments to the folks at Buick for the quality improvements they seem to have achieved! |
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| JL_SS |
| There is a difference between inital quality and long term reliability. It will be many years before we can tell if GM has increased long term reliability to the point where you can keep a vehicle for 200K without worrying about cost like you can with a Honda/Acura. My current GM product (a Silverado truck) has 30K miles/3 years on it and it has had a number of serious issues, including replacement of the front transfer case - and I don't really use it as a truck. I am seriously considering getting rid of it cause my warranty is now up and, given the number of problems it has already had, I project that the cost to keep it another few years will be very high. My experience with this GM product will make my very wary of purchasing another GM product until it has proven, through CR reliabilty survey results, that long term reliability has reached Honda/Toyota levels. Then there is also the issue of poor resale that will not improve until long term reliability is proven........ |
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| ExRiGuy |
I too think the jury is out on GM long-term dependability. But, Buick just tied Lexus in long-term (if I recall, not initial quality).
The 2004 Toyota Sienna I am selling to bankroll the Enclave has been nothing but trouble, endless list of things that has soured me on Toyota a bit (only "a bit" because I had a Lexus GS that was the most reliable car I've ever owned as a counterbalance).
So far I am not terribly impressed with the MDX reliability. And I am getting tired of the dealer not being able to find all the little things that go bump in the night (or creak in the day). |
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| noel |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
There is a difference between inital quality and long term reliability. It will be many years before we can tell if GM has increased long term reliability to the point where you can keep a vehicle for 200K without worrying about cost like you can with a Honda/Acura. My current GM product (a Silverado truck) has 30K miles/3 years on it and it has had a number of serious issues, including replacement of the front transfer case - and I don't really use it as a truck. I am seriously considering getting rid of it cause my warranty is now up and, given the number of problems it has already had, I project that the cost to keep it another few years will be very high. My experience with this GM product will make my very wary of purchasing another GM product until it has proven, through CR reliabilty survey results, that long term reliability has reached Honda/Toyota levels. Then there is also the issue of poor resale that will not improve until long term reliability is proven........
You and I are talking about two different subjects. Fit and finish of the interior have nothing to do with mechanical reliability. I too have had poor experience with GM products but, the fit and finish of the interior on my MDX is very disappointing and not befitting a vehicle that costs as much as it does. The fact that it's a first year for this new body style is a poor excuse! |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by noel
You and I are talking about two different subjects. Fit and finish of the interior have nothing to do with mechanical reliability. I too have had poor experience with GM products but, the fit and finish of the interior on my MDX is very disappointing and not befitting a vehicle that costs as much as it does. The fact that it's a first year for this new body style is a poor excuse!
I wasn't specifically commenting on your post. I was commenting in general on ExRiguys final comment "If the quality hangs with the Lexus as JD Power says it will, then this thing is nothing short of the rebirth of the American made family vehicle".
Fit and finish falls under initial quality, while dependability falls under long term reliability. The new GM designs are showing good intial quality but it will be a while before we know whether long term reliability has improved. I personally would take fit and finish issues over long term reliability issues in a heartbeat. And it will take a long time for GM resale value to adjust accordingly.
If you want fit and finish and proven long term reliability in a similiar size vehicle, then you need to pony up the additional bucks for a Lexus and forego the sportiness. Although I did have to lemon a 2004 Toyota Sienna that had numerous mechanical and fit and finish issues. |
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| noel |
quote:
Originally posted by ExRiGuy
I too think the jury is out on GM long-term dependability. But, Buick just tied Lexus in long-term (if I recall, not initial quality).
The 2004 Toyota Sienna I am selling to bankroll the Enclave has been nothing but trouble, endless list of things that has soured me on Toyota a bit (only "a bit" because I had a Lexus GS that was the most reliable car I've ever owned as a counterbalance).
So far I am not terribly impressed with the MDX reliability. And I am getting tired of the dealer not being able to find all the little things that go bump in the night (or creak in the day).
Hey ExRiGuy,
You brought up another issue I haven't even touched on. When I took delivery of my new MDX, it was as quiet as a tomb. Over less than perfect ( I live in Michigan) roads, there were no little noises, vibrations, etc, in the body. Now, roughly 4700 miles later, there are little noises eminating from under the dash and various other locations. Makes me wonder what it will be like after 10 or 20 thousand. I guess time will tell! |
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by ExRiGuy
Advantage Enclave: Size -- much roomier and a better use of space with compartments etc., fit and finish is much better than the Acura so far (no misaligned interior parts, thumps and creaks, which, unfortunately, my MDX has), FAR QUIETER (almost unreal), interior (especially the dash) is a automotive work of art for the money and makes the MDX look spartan in comparison (my opinion) and has some wonderfully done subtle retro cues, far more bang for your buck -- more than 5 thousand less with same options, better ride up to 7/10 -- firm and controlled yet soaks up the bumps, exterior styling (personal preference), slightly better MPG despite the weight (likely due to 6 speed and programming), and finally, it 's pretty easy to pick up elderly "chicks."
As you can see, I am very impressed with the Enclave, and frankly, I think it is a better "family" vehicle. If the quality hangs with the Lexus as JD Power says it will, then this thing is nothing short of the rebirth of the American made family vehicle.
Wow, I couldn't agree less! I have rented one of these, and they are nice to look at on the outside, and the interior is quite a bit better than the GMC Envoy (sister car), but there is a reason they don't show the interior in any of the Buick commercials... it is cheap!
The power, or utter lack there of, from the engine is pathetic. 25 less HP, and 400+ more lbs. The handling isn't just because of the difference in weight, your wife's sport has an awesome suspension, the Enclave has parts out of the generic GM parts bin.
The shift button on the shifter is a horrible way to "sport" shift.
As far as "bang for the buck", you must be referring to weight because you get less features, less horsepower, worse performance, worse handling, and if history has anything to do with it, more headaches with a GM vehicle.
Sorry to crap all over your post, I was so disappointed with this car, not that I should have expected much... |
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| noel |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
I wasn't specifically commenting on your post. I was commenting in general on ExRiguys final comment "If the quality hangs with the Lexus as JD Power says it will, then this thing is nothing short of the rebirth of the American made family vehicle".
Fit and finish falls under initial quality, while dependability falls under long term reliability. The new GM designs are showing good intial quality but it will be a while before we know whether long term reliability has improved. I personally would take fit and finish issues over long term reliability issues in a heartbeat. And it will take a long time for GM resale value to adjust accordingly.
If you want fit and finish and proven long term reliability in a similiar size vehicle, then you need to pony up the additional bucks for a Lexus and forego the sportiness. Although I did have to lemon a 2004 Toyota Sienna that had numerous mechanical and fit and finish issues.
Funny you should mention Lexus. Because of their stellar reputation for quality, I drove several of their models before deciding on my MDX. They were quiet, beautifully finished, and boring as Hell! Drove the RX, IS and GS models, nice, but defintely not for me!
The long term reliability of new GM products has yet to be proven, their terrible resale to date is a fact. |
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| craniotes |
Having cross-shopped the Enclave just for laughs, I can say that its fit and finish was beyond reproach, as was its scary-quiet interior. Soft-touch materials abound, and it looks and feels like a car that should cost $10K more than it does. As much as I dig the interior of my X, the Enclave has the edge here. (Just my opinion gmc, so don't crap on me!) It may not be quite as driver-oriented as the X, but then no one is marketing it as an autocrosser, either. Needless to say, I wasn't laughing when I left the dealership -- anyone who dismisses the Buick simply because it's a Buick is doing themselves a disservice. GM has a trio of winners with the Enclave, Acadia and Outlook, and they deserve all the accolades -- and sales -- they get.
That said, in no way did I feel that it compared to the MDX on any level in terms of performance, handling and overall driving dynamics, which was a huge consideration for me since the X is going to be my primary vehicle. The ride quality was beyond reproach, however, and as a committed family hauler, the Enclave and its platform mates are without peer, IMO. But for those of us who actually enjoy driving, unless you've got the bones to spring for a Cayenne S (the new one that is, 'cuz the X runs neck and neck with the first generation), an X5 4.8i (the 3.0 doesn't compare, IMO), or an ML550/63, the MDX is the SUV of choice. [It should be noted that only the X5 4.8i features an optional third row, which was a requirement of mine] Just to illustrate my point, last night, for larks, I took my X out on the backroads around my countryhouse for a quick blast -- and you know what, I had a blast. The stereo was uncorked, the suspension was set to "sport", the MID was set to display SH-AWD torque distribution, the sunroof was wide open, and the stick was in manumatic-mode. Okay, so I wasn't flooring it (still gotta break the engine in), but dammit, it was fun, and coming from an avowed SUV-hater, that's big. It goes without saying that if an Enclave was in my garage, I wouldn't have bothered. And then, without so much as batting an eye, today I drove my wife, 8 month old son in his Britax, brother-in-law, sister-in-law and two nieces to Brooklyn for ice cream in perfect comfort. It's really hard to hate flexibility like that. I should also add here that I flat-out love the way the MDX looks -- grille and all -- whereas the Enclave is a bit too soft looking for my tastes.
Yes, after a week my X is tight as a drum with no ill-fitting pieces, squeaks or rattles, but let's see what tune I'm humming a year from now, or ten years from now (which is how long I intend to keep this rig). I can't say that I'm happy to hear the troubles that others are having in this regard, but in the end, it's the bones of the car (i.e. engine, transmission, suspension), that really count. Hopefully it's up to the task for the long haul.
In the meantime, though, I'm simply going to enjoy driving this fantastic automobile. Mind you, I certainly won't be thumbing my nose at all the Enclaves I'll be stuck behind on twisting two-lanes... ;)
Regards,
Adam |
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| noel |
quote:
Originally posted by gmc74
Wow, I couldn't agree less! I have rented one of these, and they are nice to look at on the outside, and the interior is quite a bit better than the GMC Envoy (sister car), but there is a reason they don't show the interior in any of the Buick commercials... it is cheap!
The power, or utter lack there of, from the engine is pathetic. 25 less HP, and 400+ more lbs. The handling isn't just because of the difference in weight, your wife's sport has an awesome suspension, the Enclave has parts out of the generic GM parts bin.
The shift button on the shifter is a horrible way to "sport" shift.
As far as "bang for the buck", you must be referring to weight because you get less features, less horsepower, worse performance, worse handling, and if history has anything to do with it, more headaches with a GM vehicle.
Sorry to crap all over your post, I was so disappointed with this car, not that I should have expected much...
Another opinion is always welcome, that's part of what this forum is all about but to me, the comparison doesn't really matter. Overall, I'm still disappointed in the initial quality of my new MDX. Hopefully it's long term reliability will be good. I hope so since it's my intention to keep it for a long time. Drove 5 Jeep Grand Cherokees back to back before buying my MDX and, while I readily admit Jeep engineering is pretty crude by comparison, the body of my last Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland was quieter, at 65K when I sold it than my new MDX is with 4700 miles on it. |
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by ExRiGuy
I too think the jury is out on GM long-term dependability. But, Buick just tied Lexus in long-term (if I recall, not initial quality).
The 2004 Toyota Sienna I am selling to bankroll the Enclave has been nothing but trouble, endless list of things that has soured me on Toyota a bit (only "a bit" because I had a Lexus GS that was the most reliable car I've ever owned as a counterbalance).
So far I am not terribly impressed with the MDX reliability. And I am getting tired of the dealer not being able to find all the little things that go bump in the night (or creak in the day).
I believe that was a JD Powers long term dependability survey which only goes out to 3 years, where many Honda/Acura owners keep their vehicles much longer than that. JD Powers results also don't seem to mirror real life experiences like Consumer Reports surveys do. When you look at the individual CR categories, Buick has the Rendezvous and the Rainier in the SUV category that contribute to the Buick long term dependability ratings. The Rainier has an average reliability rating. The Rendezvous has a better than average reliability rating but a 3 year old Rendezvous shows far more serious problems than a three year old MDX. Anyway I wish you luck with it and I hope that US manufacturers have stepped up their long term reliability too. I also had a 2004 Toyota Sienna that I lemoned due to numerous issues. |
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| ExRiGuy |
Well, gmc, to each his own. [Redacted. Apologies for stooping] And, as an FYI, 6 months after its release date the Enclave still has a 6-10 week order time and a huge backlog. When I bought my Nimbus sport in March (about 6 months from release) the dealer had a ton of them and blew it out at close to invoice. Will this impact resale down the road? It might. I sense the Enclave will hold its value very well actually, but anything can happen. I know a lot of folks who can't wait to switch back to domestics once they are competitive again . . .
As to the MDX -- I don't regret it a bit, and it is indeed a better "drivers car" to be sure, and that is why I'm driving it and not the Enclave (which is my wife's). But, I am frustrated with the creaks and thumps and persistent dash rattle that I suspect the dealer will never find and will annoy me until I sell the thing in a few years. |
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| noel |
quote:
Originally posted by ExRiGuy
Well, gmc, to each his own, but you sound like an import lemming to me. And, as an FYI, 6 months after its release date the Enclave still has a 6-10 week order time and a huge backlog. When I bought my Nimbus sport in March (about 6 months from release) the dealer had a ton of them and blew it out at close to invoice. Will this impact resale down the road? It might. I sense the Enclave will hold its value very well actually, but anything can happen. I know a lot of folks who can't wait to switch back to domestics once they are competitive again . . .
As to the MDX -- I don't regret it a bit, and it is indeed a better "drivers car" to be sure, and that is why I'm driving it and not the Enclave (which is my wife's). But, I am frustrated with the creaks and thumps and persistent dash rattle that I suspect the dealer will never find and will annoy me until I sell the thing in a few years.
I don't regret my purchase of the MDX either and, I haven't given up yet. Slowly, but surely, these irritating issues are being taken care of. Tuesday the car goes in to have the home-link replaced, yes, it failed, and the rear covers of the third row seats, one of which is broken and the other loose from bumping on the mating part when they're raised up. I will also mention the irritating little noises and vibrations in the dash, etc and at least give them the chance to correct it. Wish us both luck getting these basically great running, and fine handling, MDX's the way we hope they will! |
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| Mike_TX |
I find it interesting that many people seem to equate minor trim issues with "quality". I would FAR rather have a solidly-built, mechanically-correct vehicle that had a piece or two of ill-fitting plastic trim - than a hundred vehicles with perfect trim that were POS's.
My 'X has two such trim mis-fits ... the little one on the end of the dash (covered by the closed door) and a piece at the top of the rear window. Big effin' deal. The car runs like a sewing machine, handles well for such a big rig, has awesome electronics and is attractive. And the dealer has already ordered replacements for these pieces, which just snap right in.
In the meantime, they don't affect the way the 'X runs, or how dependable it is, or how enjoyable it is. They're just 10-cent pieces of plastic trim. When I was blasting down State Hwy. 16 in central Texas at 107 mph today (had to pass that damn line of cars), those pieces of trim were the last thing on my mind. I was just pleased with the way the 'X spooled up over 100 in seconds, and was pulling hard when I eased back over in my lane. No strain, no rattles or squeaks, no sweat.
That's how I define quality.
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| cvista |
| I'm sorry, but If I buy a GM, all my friends will laugh at me. |
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| craniotes |
quote:
Originally posted by cvista
I'm sorry, but If I buy a GM, all my friends will laugh at me.
Unfortunately, that sentiment is exactly what GM has to contend with on their climb back to respectability, and I hate to say it, but they've earned the scepticism. The good news is that cars like the Enclave are doing their part to make buying domestic something to be proud of, as opposed to being embarrased of. Heck, even Ford is doing their part with the Edge and the MKS.
Now obviously I didn't bite this time around, but when it comes time to unload the MDX a decade from now, I'll definitely be taking a long, hard look at what our domestic manufacturers are schilling.
Regards,
Adam |
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| cvyluv |
quote:
There is a difference between inital quality and long term reliability. It will be many years before we can tell if GM has increased long term reliability to the point where you can keep a vehicle for 200K without worrying about cost like you can with a Honda/Acura.
Can you really say that about the MDX?? I think it's pretty fair to say that all Acuras are NOT created equal. (Ask Fabvsix) |
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| gmc74 |
I am anything but an import lemming. All of my previous SUVs/trucks have been american (98 GMC Jimmy SLT and 2000 Ford Excursion), and of the rest of my cars, they have been 50-50. I have owned GMs, Fords, a Chrysler, Nissan, Mazdas, and now an Acura, pretty well rounded.
I am going to chalk this up to me having higher requirements for a luxury SUV.
For those who use every thread to complain about the same issue with their X, get it taken care of already. |
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| shieldstyle |
I've always driven American cars. I'm sick of them. Plastic and rubber interior, everything is hollow, noisy engine without being nimble (unless I want to tow something). The cars I drove had no technology toys really, and the GMC cars I was looking at lately seemed to be very similar. I test drove the Yukon Denali, and it just had leather on top of hollow plastic. American cars became the standard car to me, and that's boring.
I drove Mercedes Benz for a while, and got used to having features and luxury interiors. I wanted the Mazda CX-7 for the turbo, yet was greatly disappointed with the interior. I test drove the RDX, and that brought me to the MDX.
Oh, the Enclave. I looked into that. Wanted to buy GMC, so much cheaper than BMW/MB/Lexus/etc. When I looked into it, I found that the Enclave is a bloody stationwagon. I'm not driving a stationwagon, and I'm not driving a minivan. I want a sports-car that can do stuff my SUV can, but I'm tired of driving blazers and trailblazers. I like the shape of the crossover cars, but if they're too long, like the audi Q7, it's a stationwagon. |
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by craniotes
Unfortunately, that sentiment is exactly what GM has to contend with on their climb back to respectability, and I hate to say it, but they've earned the scepticism. The good news is that cars like the Enclave are doing their part to make buying domestic something to be proud of, as opposed to being embarrased of. Heck, even Ford is doing their part with the Edge and the MKS.
Now obviously I didn't bite this time around, but when it comes time to unload the MDX a decade from now, I'll definitely be taking a long, hard look at what our domestic manufacturers are schilling.
Regards,
Adam
It is funny, the exteriors of the American cars are getting better, but the interiors are lagging way behind. I rent a lot of cars on the road, and I was excited to get a 300, Charger, and Magnum, only to get inside and be disgusted by the cheap and cheesey interiors on those cars.
A few years ago I was on a speed kick and looked at Corvettes, but spending that kind of money, I expected a lot more from the inside of the car, not the same generic knobs and buttons that are in an Aveo...
It is ok for a company like GM to save money by sharing parts across it's line, but don't do it with the parts we see and touch. The "luxury" vehicles need their own parts bin! |
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| craniotes |
There's no disagreeing with you, particularly with respect to the 300C, which has more overt luxury pretentions than either the Charger or the Magnum. I took a look at it when it was released, thinking that the all-wheel-drive version would make a nice home-grown replacement for my E420, but there was no getting past that cheap, plasticky interior. I've heard that they all received an upgrade in this department for 2008...
But even so, the Enclave is definitely a cut above the cars you mentioned. I wonder if you got mixed up with the Rainier, which is the platform mate to the GMC Envoy you mentioned in your original post (the GMC version of the Enclave is the Acadia). The Chevy Trailblazer rounds out that particular troika, and no, there's no comparing their GM-parts-bin interiors with the MDX. Either way, I'm more than satisfied with the interior of my X, and wouldn't trade it for the layout in the Enclave, even though I felt that it was more substantial.
Regards,
Adam |
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by craniotes
But even so, the Enclave is definitely a cut above the cars you mentioned. I wonder if you got mixed up with the Rainier, which is the platform mate to the GMC Envoy you mentioned in your original post (the GMC version of the Enclave is the Acadia). The Chevy Trailblazer rounds out that particular troika, and no, there's no comparing their GM-parts-bin interiors with the MDX. Either way, I'm more than satisfied with the interior of my X, and wouldn't trade it for the layout in the Enclave, even though I felt that it was more substantial.
Regards,
Adam
I meant the Acadia actually, I can't keep the names straight... the two things that disappointed me most on the Acadia were the lack of power and the ugly radio.
The radio, and the majority of the interior is nicer in the Buick, over the Acadia (no comparison there). The materials felt kind of cheap to me, and the lack of power probably tilted my opinion.
I drove the Acadia first, and that left a sour taste in my mouth, probably one that couldn't be overcome by the Enclave. |
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| SharpOne |
I too evaluated the Enclave and Acadia, as well as the Mazda CX-9 before getting the X. Underneath it all I wanted the X because it had better styling IMO.
I thought the Enclave was a very nice looking car. I had never really looked twice at a Buick before (well maybe the Regal GS a while ago, but only for a sec). I even took it home and let my wife take a look at it. She liked the styling as well. One thing that bothered me though, especially when I tried to back it out of the driveway was that this car felt really big. I felt like I was backing a boat out of the driveway. It felt and drove bigger than our 2005 Honda Odyssey.
That was pretty much the end of the Enclave. I drove the Acadia as well, and although they are basically the same car, it didn't feel as "boatish." However, I wasn't too fond of that big red GMC in the grill...needs to be a bit smaller to me.
The CX-9 was the closest contender. It had a decent ride and was cheaper than the X, especially with the deal the dealer was willing to give on it, but everytime I looked at it, all I could thing was station wagon.:o |
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| sgoyal |
ExRiGuy [/i]
I just took delivery of a 07 Sport/Ent MDX and so far very impressed.
I believe Acura has one of the most advanced navigation and cellphone interface in the Industry. And it was proven true in the MDX. I consider the whole navigation experience + the bluetooth integration in the MDX a huge safety plus.
As far as I know you can't get this level of speech recognition in other vehicles at any price. Stuff like this matters a lot to me because I use the technology everyday.
Just curious, how is the Navigation interface quality in the Buick and does it offer similar bluetooth operation? |
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| ExRiGuy |
Couple of comments to address here:
I agree wholeheartedly that the Acura is a better driver's "SAV" -- but don't most buy these as family transport? If you really want a sports sedan then just buy one, no. I am a rare bird with 4 kids and need a third row so that we are not limited to using just one vehicle all the time. The Enclave is, in my opinion, better pure family transport (more luxorious, roomy, quiet, more options for less $).
I agree that the Enclave is big -- but it doesn't ride like a boat at all, and I can't imagine that anyone who has driven one would say that. Big, yes, boat, no.
As to NAV -- as I say, clear edge Acura -- but I get tired of talking to my car to do something that I can usually do in half the time with a few clicks, so bluetooth matters little to me. Touch-screen is better on Enclave as is back-up camera, as it comes on quicker and actually tells you when you get close to something. Can anyone actually say they trust the back-up camera in the MDX? Almost useless without depth help. |
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| hipcheck |
I owned a Saturn Outlook for 5 months. Same platform as the Buick with less trim and features.
It was the best GM I had driven. Decent build and nice design. In reference to the original review, my MDX gets better gas mileage then the Outlook did. GM must have gotten the EPA to measure that thing going downhill with a back wind.
There are two major issues with the GM trio. They are slightly underpowered for spirited driving and the 6 speed tranny needs major tuning. When driving 75, the car constantly downshifts into 5th when going up inclines. GM knows about the problem.
The visibility was the deal killer for me. The doors and windows are high and really limit visibility. The rear camera helps, but not enough. I am very tall but still found my head spinning all the time to look for cars. It is also a long SUV and that makes it harder than the MDX to drive.
Still, a major advance for GM and a decent SUV. But for me, the MDX is much nicer and a hoot to drive. I felt the Outlook was nice, but lacked personality. |
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| craniotes |
Actually, I bought my MDX to do both -- haul the family, and haul some ass. This is going to be my primary vehicle, and after I sell my E420 and my wife's Accord, it will be my only vehicle. Sure, if I lived full time in the 'burbs and had four kids, then I'd probably take your advice and go for a mid-size sports sedan and get, well, probably an Enclave for the clan. Rather, I live in the city with my wife and a single baby, where public transportation is the best, and sometimes only option. My X is for weekend trips to the country and road trips to points more remote when the muse is upon us. I've gotta say, it's nice to be able to transport four adults, one baby and two grade schoolers one day, and carve some corners the next.
Regards,
Adam |
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| BLEXV6 |
I saw the Enclave for the 1st time today and is a real looker. I am also very attracted to the Accadia, as it is also a knock-out. The Outlook is not quite appealing.
That said, there will never, ever be a chance that I will buy a GM product as I love my Acuras, unless of course, it is offered as a company car, and in this case the reliability issue does not matter as I would not pay for the car or it's repairs.
GM, Chrysler and Ford have had crappy vehicles for the majority of my life, and I cannot see buying any of them. Unfortunately my attitude is becoming contagious, as many staunch North American buyers have switched, and likely permanently, when they find out what they were missing. |
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| ExRiGuy |
The tranny issue has been addressed in the Lambdas (Enclave et al), as the 6 speed has been recently reprogrammed and shifts great -- but not quite as nice as the Acura. It's a non-issue for the Enclave now, but a plus for the Acura -- the MDX has a great thinking tranny.
The Enclave is a heavy vehicle for 275 hp, agreed. But, it is a nice engine and sounds better than any V6 I have heard in an American car.
As to the "never gonna buy American comments" -- that was me back in 2003 before I bought my Toyota Sienna and chased problems with it for the last 3 years while the Toyota dealer gave me bad service because they sell more cars than the dealer can realistically service. Which brings me to the dealership experience -- my Buick dealer is the nicest set of people that I have ever met, treat me like royalty and never too busy for me -- which is just fine with me, thank-you. I'm glad they only make one popular car for the time being. Service experience is on par with my last Lexus.
For the 5th time, I do not regret my MDX and it has a great niche, and is much better for the money than an X5, for example. But, if I were a soccer mom looking to cart kids and all their stuff around, who wasn't in to carving corners (as most soccer moms aren't) the Enclave is, in my opinion, superior. |
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| machz990 |
I was very interested in the Enclave CXL fully loaded. I read all the reviews I could find and then went to my local dealer and test drove one. I actually would own one now until the dealer told me that they had orders from last May that weren't filled yet. This was the 3rd week of August. He said there was a backlog and it was probably going to get worse before it got better. He also made it clear that they can sell all they get in at full sticker. That pretty much killed the deal for me. It will be a cold day in He!! before I pay full sticker for a GM vehicle. Sure the demand is hot right now but give them 6 months to a year and when sales slow down, out come the discounts and incentives. Then those who paid full sticker will see their Enclaves value drop like a rock. Just like the PT Cruiser, Chrysler 300, Ford Mustang, etc. etc. You had to get in line when they first came out and pay MSRP or higher. Now they are giving them away. Now imagine a CUV like the Enclave a year or two from now. I don't want to be the one holding the big bag of depreciation.
Also I realize GM is working hard to make better vehicles. But the bottom line is US car manufacturers are hurting and profit is still their number one priority.
I am somewhat of a tech guy and appreciate good engineering. I bet if you took any part off the MDX and compared it to the GM counterpart you would find the Acura part to be better engineered. |
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| JeffK |
Just my $.02:
Consumer Reports found the Enclave trio OK, but not a sure winner and behind the MDX.
I personally do not need a vehicle anywhere as large as the Enclave.
In my town I see smallish soccer moms driving one or two kids in a Suburban. I think they are sitting on pillows! And this driving maybe getting 12 mpg!
As to depreciation: think about all who bought the '07 MDX at full MSRP only to see them being discounted within 90 days and by June selling close to invoice.
As many of you know, I am a strong advocate for leasing: The pricing on both the MDX and Enclave should sound an alarm (full list MSRP) to either wait or if you must be the first on the block to have it, then lease and let the leasing company suffer the excess depreciation.
JeffK |
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| SharpOne |
quote:
Originally posted by ExRiGuy
Couple of comments to address here:
I agree wholeheartedly that the Acura is a better driver's "SAV" -- but don't most buy these as family transport? If you really want a sports sedan then just buy one, no. I am a rare bird with 4 kids and need a third row so that we are not limited to using just one vehicle all the time. The Enclave is, in my opinion, better pure family transport (more luxorious, roomy, quiet, more options for less $).
I agree that the Enclave is big -- but it doesn't ride like a boat at all, and I can't imagine that anyone who has driven one would say that. Big, yes, boat, no.
As to NAV -- as I say, clear edge Acura -- but I get tired of talking to my car to do something that I can usually do in half the time with a few clicks, so bluetooth matters little to me. Touch-screen is better on Enclave as is back-up camera, as it comes on quicker and actually tells you when you get close to something. Can anyone actually say they trust the back-up camera in the MDX? Almost useless without depth help.
Sorry I guess we will just have to disagree on this one. I didn't get the boat feeling so much when I was driving it....and drive it I definitely did, twice as a matter of fact. Although trying to take a tight right hand turn out of the dealer into trafffic made it feel like a large vehicle. I was only really struck with the "boatish" feeling when trying to back that beast out of the driveway.
I have 4 kids as well, so I agree with you on the family vehicle statement. But for us the X is a backup duty family vehicle, and my main ride. The standard family vehicle is our Honda Odyssey, which drives less boat like in reverse than the Enclave. Feels smaller than the Enclave as well...externally that is. |
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| Heat00 |
it's a buick, people... really.
can we really compare and Acura to a Buick??
I too did look at it and it was pretty to look at but lets see what happens after 80k miles in that bad boy... |
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| gurneyeagle |
Well, just to totally hijack this thread, I too have been disappointed with Acura's build quality. My '07 MDX is a great car, bu there are little bits of finish trim that don't line up right. My '05 TL was even worse, especially rattle-wise. Great cars both, but a little disappointing. The leather in the TL was in a word - cheap.
I didn't even realize the difference until I traded in my TL for an Infiniti G37 last week. The fit and finish of that car is light years ahead of Acura's. It's also has a tighter structure than the MDX, which surprises me.
The MDX replaced an '01 Odyssey, and it was a definite step up for me. However, what I accepted as minor annoyances, are now disappointments after driving the Infiniti.
gurney |
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| BLEXV6 |
quote:
Originally posted by ExRiGuy
The tranny issue has been addressed in the Lambdas (Enclave et al), as the 6 speed has been recently reprogrammed and shifts great -- but not quite as nice as the Acura. It's a non-issue for the Enclave now, but a plus for the Acura -- the MDX has a great thinking tranny.
The Enclave is a heavy vehicle for 275 hp, agreed. But, it is a nice engine and sounds better than any V6 I have heard in an American car.
As to the "never gonna buy American comments" -- that was me back in 2003 before I bought my Toyota Sienna and chased problems with it for the last 3 years while the Toyota dealer gave me bad service because they sell more cars than the dealer can realistically service. Which brings me to the dealership experience -- my Buick dealer is the nicest set of people that I have ever met, treat me like royalty and never too busy for me -- which is just fine with me, thank-you. I'm glad they only make one popular car for the time being. Service experience is on par with my last Lexus.
For the 5th time, I do not regret my MDX and it has a great niche, and is much better for the money than an X5, for example. But, if I were a soccer mom looking to cart kids and all their stuff around, who wasn't in to carving corners (as most soccer moms aren't) the Enclave is, in my opinion, superior.
I hear you, you are just on the wrong Forum to get people to accept this very nice vehicle. GM has a lot of work to do to get the confidence back. Nuff said. |
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| ExRiGuy |
Couple more comments to address others:
I am not trying to sell Enclave's, could care less, this started as an FYI thread, not trying to put down the MDX (but its quality does not impress me that much). Also, I leased the Enclave, I would never purchase it with all the residual uncertainty.
I disagree that there are people on this forum or visiting this forum that would not consider the Buick or even cross-shop them. Several comments bear that out.
I think that Acura quality is over-rated, and for some of us, including myself until I bought the Enclave, we just "assume" an Acura is built better than a Buick -- but if you look at objective research over the past few years that doesn't appeear to be the case, and, in fact, there are many Japanese brands that don't do as well as American brands now. Reality is Detroit built such bad products for about a 15 - 20 year period that people just gave up. Shame on them and they will have to earn their way out of the hole they dug. I think they are beginning to do that, and no car does it better than the Enclave in my opinion.
And, I just remembered two other Enclave edges: better warranty (100k powertrain) and also the OnStar feature which my wife loves and uses once a week (no idea for what). |
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| JeffK |
You posted:
Also, I leased the Enclave, I would never purchase it with all the residual uncertainty.
Finally someone besides me gets it!
there are many Japanese brands that don't do as well as American brands now. Reality is Detroit built such bad products for about a 15 - 20 year period that people just gave up. Shame on them and they will have to earn their way out of the hole they dug. I think they are beginning to do that, and no car does it better than the Enclave in my opinion.
Couldn't agree more! Think Mitsubishi!
I am presently leasing a 2005 GMC Envoy. Basic transportation. While the gas mileage is deplorable, it has been built proof.
Sure it is not as tight as my MDX, but nothing has gone wrong. It has only seen the dealer for oil changes.
And for the price (I drive it only 6,000 miles per year, as it is our 3rd car - so gas mileage is not as important to me as to others who drive more) it is unbeatable.
JeffK |
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| SharpOne |
quote:
Originally posted by ExRiGuy
Couple more comments to address others:
I am not trying to sell Enclave's, could care less, this started as an FYI thread, not trying to put down the MDX (but its quality does not impress me that much). Also, I leased the Enclave, I would never purchase it with all the residual uncertainty.
I disagree that there are people on this forum or visiting this forum that would not consider the Buick or even cross-shop them. Several comments bear that out.
I think that Acura quality is over-rated, and for some of us, including myself until I bought the Enclave, we just "assume" an Acura is built better than a Buick -- but if you look at objective research over the past few years that doesn't appeear to be the case, and, in fact, there are many Japanese brands that don't do as well as American brands now. Reality is Detroit built such bad products for about a 15 - 20 year period that people just gave up. Shame on them and they will have to earn their way out of the hole they dug. I think they are beginning to do that, and no car does it better than the Enclave in my opinion.
And, I just remembered two other Enclave edges: better warranty (100k powertrain) and also the OnStar feature which my wife loves and uses once a week (no idea for what).
No problem ExRiGuy! We are still in a healthy discussion I believe.
Speaking of warranty I did find it odd that the GM had a longer warranty on its engine than the Acura did. It made me think that GM must be really confident about this engine to put that kind of warranty on it...definitely a plus.
As far as the MDX goes, I definitely am still liking it. However to be objective I think we can all agree that there are definitely some cheap feeling elements to it. Such as inside door handles, third row seats. Although I don't really have any fit issue, except with one of the sport running boards, and rear garnish, which I hope the dealer can tune up a bit on first visit. It sounds like a bit more QC might be in order at Acura before they slip too far.
In spite of that I'm still a fan of the X. Hopefully it stays that way for a loooong time.
In actuality I do hope some of the American brands are back on their way to being on a competitive level with the Japanese cars. After all I am an American. I would prefer to root for the home team.:eek: |
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| phins2rt |
quote:
Originally posted by SharpOne
Speaking of warranty I did find it odd that the GM had a longer warranty on its engine than the Acura did. It made me think that GM must be really confident about this engine to put that kind of warranty on it...definitely a plus.
Of course Chrysler and Hyundai have longer warranties as well. I'm not sure that instills confidence from the manufacturer. I think of it more as a marketing gimmick. I remember when Chrysler introduced the K-cars back in the 80's. To help those sell they initiated the 3 year warranty that we have come to know and love on most domestics.
quote:
Originally posted by SharpOne
In actuality I do hope some of the American brands are back on their way to being on a competitive level with the Japanese cars. After all I am an American. I would prefer to root for the home team
I hope this as well. Competition is a wonderful thing! Can you imagine what we would be driving now without the Japanese, Germans, etc? |
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| craniotes |
For what it is, and considering its intended market, the Enclave is really without peer IMO, irrespective of manufacturer or country of origin. To be honest, I'm not sure what they could do to make it better, aside from the usual suspects -- more power, even better interior materials... Of course, these same complaints are lobbed at pretty much every new vehicle that hits the market (take a look at the reviews of the first Porsche Cayenne S, or the current X5 3.0i). However, in the case of the Enclave, a more powerful engine would mean worse fuel economy, so again, for its mission and intended audience, the Enclave is tops.
That said, in order for it to have found a place in my garage, it would've had to shrink about ten inches, lose about 500lbs, gain about 25hp, firm up its suspension, and harden the exterior lines. Oh wait, I just described the MDX...
Regards,
Adam |
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| JeffK |
That said, in order for it to have found a place in my garage, it would've had to shrink about ten inches, lose about 500lbs, gain about 25hp, firm up its suspension, and harden the exterior lines. Oh wait, I just described the MDX...
Well said!
JeffK |
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| dfc101a |
For those Acura or import enthusiasts, you may not cross shop with a domestic much less a Buick, but the Enclave and MDX can and will be cross shopped. Each has trade offs. Your personal preference and situation will drive which trade offs are more to your liking. We cross shopped both in replacing our 2001 MDX -
http://www.acuramdx.org/forums/show...light=replacing
For our situation, the Enclave was better - family hauler as ExRiGuy notes.
A few notes to some unanswered questions.
GM does not incude bluetooth. OnStar is their replacement. Big miss for GM considering the competion IMO.
The NAV and radio interface is top notch. Like it even better with two months of use. You could program 30 XM favorites if you wanted.
Transmission. GM has issued a recall and the driving characteristics are very good (got the flash update a week ago). |
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by JeffK
You posted:
Couldn't agree more! Think Mitsubishi!
JeffK
Don't forget, until 12-18 months ago, Mitsubishi survived on the money that Chrysler gave it, and it was essentially another wing of Chrysler.
I think it is a stretch to compare that to Acura.
You know, Yugos were made in Europe, so BMWs, Mercedes and Ferarris are all crap...
:rolleyes: |
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| LionSpeed |
quote:
Originally posted by gmc74
.... so BMWs, Mercedes and Ferarris are all crap...
:rolleyes:
^^ :claphead:
:7: |
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| ExRiGuy |
There are a lot of Japanese imports that do worse than most domestics in quality rankings, Nissan, Mazda, Mitsu, and Isuzu are four prime examples. Never mind Volvo, Jag, Rover et al as the European tour de cellar of quality.
I believe that most of the new designs released in the last year or so by Detroit will hang with many of the imports as quality goes. Detroit is still capable of some supremely ugly cars though, both inside and out. In the end I believe quality will roughly equalize for the big 10 or so auto brands and it wil come down to styling and what you need . .. |
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| gmc74 |
quote:
Originally posted by ExRiGuy
There are a lot of Japanese imports that do worse than most domestics in quality rankings, Nissan, Mazda, Mitsu, and Isuzu are four prime examples. Never mind Volvo, Jag, Rover et al as the European tour de cellar of quality.
I believe that most of the new designs released in the last year or so by Detroit will hang with many of the imports as quality goes. Detroit is still capable of some supremely ugly cars though, both inside and out. In the end I believe quality will roughly equalize for the big 10 or so auto brands and it wil come down to styling and what you need . ..
Well, for your "Japanese imports"
Nissan - Thought still considered the #2 in Japan, it is 45% owned by the french company Renault
Mazda - Controlling interest is owned by Ford
Mitsubishi - The only Japanese motor company to lose money, was 34% owned by Chrysler (now 12%)
Isuzu - GM owned as much as 30% and is now down to 12%
As for your European list, you will find that Ford owns those three...
I guess you proved my point for me, when the US auto makers are involved, quality goes down the crapper...
Toyota and Honda are the only companies from Japan that don't have a huge share of their companies owned by a company in europe or the US |
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| ductman |
Just check out the buick forums at edmunds, there are allready
a couple of owners with "check engine" lights on. I would much rather have a so called " interior quality issue" than be stranded
on the side of the road . I paid 37000 for my base, i can live with
these " interior defects", a similiarly equipped Enclave would definitely cost more or about the same, Buick still markets their
vehicles to the " geazer set" why else would they make a big deal
over " quiet tuning" give me a break, no comparison at all, i even
looked at an srx with the v8, i was not impressed even with the 0%
financing and give a way price, i personally do not have the time
to visit dealers over check engine lights, etc, my father has cadillac,
can't tell you how many times the " check engine light" and other
various issues crop up. Also see what the resale value of that
Enclave is a year from now, incentive city!!!!!!!!!:bsflag: |
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| BLEXV6 |
| Just on a side note here, regarding Mazda, my son just bought a Mazda3. For a company that is owned partially by Ford, it is a beauty. Well built, excellent fit and finish, a lot of features for the money, great dash board, especially at night. It has a very responsive 2L engine and is built in Japan. We looked at the Civic and Corolla, and to me (A Honda Freak), the Mazda3 was hands down the best car. We will have to see about reliability. |
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| cvista |
OK, Come on guys, BUICK !!.
Do you know the average age of Bucik owners is 60+ ???
Basically you can profile a GM or a Buick owner very quickly.
Someone collecting their Social security
Old school
Probably doesn't have a passport ( never went out of the country)
worked Blue collar jobs
Think computer is a magic box and buy computers in Dell kiosk or from shopNBC TV channel
Can't locate iraq on world map.
Etc etc.
of course, not everyone fits into this category. Don't flame me. This was published by a research group. |
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| Heat00 |
quote:
Originally posted by gurneyeagle
Well, just to totally hijack this thread, I too have been disappointed with Acura's build quality. My '07 MDX is a great car, bu there are little bits of finish trim that don't line up right. My '05 TL was even worse, especially rattle-wise. Great cars both, but a little disappointing. The leather in the TL was in a word - cheap.
I didn't even realize the difference until I traded in my TL for an Infiniti G37 last week. The fit and finish of that car is light years ahead of Acura's. It's also has a tighter structure than the MDX, which surprises me.
The MDX replaced an '01 Odyssey, and it was a definite step up for me. However, what I accepted as minor annoyances, are now disappointments after driving the Infiniti.
gurney
Don't get me started lol... I just traded in my 07 G35S for the Mdx.. there are a lot of things I miss....
Infiniti is great... just wish they had a truck like the MDX....perhaps I will be looking at the new 09 FX next year when it's time to say goodbye to the MDX lol. |
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| Heat00 |
quote:
Originally posted by ductman
Just check out the buick forums at edmunds, there are allready
a couple of owners with "check engine" lights on. I would much rather have a so called " interior quality issue" than be stranded
on the side of the road . I paid 37000 for my base, i can live with
these " interior defects", a similiarly equipped Enclave would definitely cost more or about the same, Buick still markets their
vehicles to the " geazer set" why else would they make a big deal
over " quiet tuning" give me a break, no comparison at all, i even
looked at an srx with the v8, i was not impressed even with the 0%
financing and give a way price, i personally do not have the time
to visit dealers over check engine lights, etc, my father has cadillac,
can't tell you how many times the " check engine light" and other
various issues crop up. Also see what the resale value of that
Enclave is a year from now, incentive city!!!!!!!!!:bsflag:
Perfectly stated.
I too drove the SRX just for fun, what a POS... also drove the Yukon, both were terrible and seemed old, even though they were brand new. |
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| dfc101a |
I understand that on an Acura MDX forum, the members are going to fans of imports, Acura, and the MDX. I started as a proud owner of a 2001 Acura MDX when this board first opened shop. And the 2007 version is an excellent vehicle.
But blanket statements that Honda and Toyota are the only car companies that produce quality vehicles, Buick owners are geezers, only old people care if a vehicle is quiet, GM owners are easily profiled and think a computer is a magic box. At best those making such statements are merely misinformed . . . . . |
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| acuramdx300 |
quote:
Originally posted by Mike_TX
I find it interesting that many people seem to equate minor trim issues with "quality". I would FAR rather have a solidly-built, mechanically-correct vehicle that had a piece or two of ill-fitting plastic trim - than a hundred vehicles with perfect trim that were POS's.
My 'X has two such trim mis-fits ... the little one on the end of the dash (covered by the closed door) and a piece at the top of the rear window. Big effin' deal. The car runs like a sewing machine, handles well for such a big rig, has awesome electronics and is attractive. And the dealer has already ordered replacements for these pieces, which just snap right in.
In the meantime, they don't affect the way the 'X runs, or how dependable it is, or how enjoyable it is. They're just 10-cent pieces of plastic trim. When I was blasting down State Hwy. 16 in central Texas at 107 mph today (had to pass that damn line of cars), those pieces of trim were the last thing on my mind. I was just pleased with the way the 'X spooled up over 100 in seconds, and was pulling hard when I eased back over in my lane. No strain, no rattles or squeaks, no sweat.
That's how I define quality.
Way to go Mike. I agree complletely and have no issues on my mdx at all. Woot Woot!
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| JL_SS |
quote:
Originally posted by dfc101a
I understand that on an Acura MDX forum, the members are going to fans of imports, Acura, and the MDX. I started as a proud owner of a 2001 Acura MDX when this board first opened shop. And the 2007 version is an excellent vehicle.
But blanket statements that Honda and Toyota are the only car companies that produce quality vehicles, Buick owners are geezers, only old people care if a vehicle is quiet, GM owners are easily profiled and think a computer is a magic box. At best those making such statements are merely misinformed . . . . .
There will always be exceptions, but the blanket statements come from general truths. If you look at individual CR reliability surveys based on a large pool of unbiased owners, most Honda/Toyota/Lexus/Acura vehicles are at the top of the pack. That doesn't mean that other manufacturers do not have certain models that are reliable. CR also tracks 10 year reliabilty and GM has about twice as many problems as Honda/Toyota at 10 years.
Also, Buick's marketing director claims the average age of a Buick Owner is 65 (Link) and that's after a 10 to 15 year drop due to the introduction the Rendezvous/Rainier. I don't agree that the elderly are all computer illerate though, my mother is 65 and is quite computer literate. |
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| dfc101a |
quote:
Originally posted by JL_SS
There will always be exceptions, but the blanket statements come from general truths. If you look at individual CR reliability surveys based on a large pool of unbiased owners, most Honda/Toyota/Lexus/Acura vehicles are at the top of the pack. That doesn't mean that other manufacturers do not have certain models that are reliable. CR also tracks 10 year reliabilty and GM has about twice as many problems as Honda/Toyota at 10 years.
Also, Buick's marketing director claims the average age of a Buick Owner is 65 (Link) and that's after a 10 to 15 year drop due to the introduction the Rendezvous/Rainier. I don't agree that the elderly are all computer illerate though, my mother is 65 and is quite computer literate.
Blanket statements also come from misinterpreting information and selectively using the information available. Rolling those blanket statements under of the guise of general truths conveniently provides cover from needing to provide any real facts.
Age. The average age maybe 65 for a Buick - and your article is nearly 18 months out of date. Do you think the average age is 65 for the Enclave? It certainly is not, but it sure is easy to build a general truth that Buicks only sit in front of nursing homes. Selective information #1.
Quality. Has no one on this forum heard of the Honda/Acura tranny issues? The MDX, Pilot, Odyssey -- all impacted. We thoroughly enjoyed our 2001 MDX, 1999 Odyssey, and still own a 2005 Odyssey. But, the fact is Honda is not immune to quality issues and this thread alone has mentioned Toyota Sienna issues multiple times. Meanwhile, Buick has been steadily increasing in quality measurements and tied Lexus in one. Selective information #2.
Consumer Reports. I am a subscriber to CR and have always been a big fan. But, CR is not unbiased. The Tundra gets a recommended because it has a Toyota badge and the launch has been a train wreck. One example of many where the results posted are subjective. And a large pool of unbiased owners -- try a pool of subscribers who return the survey.
GM Owners are Easily Profiled. This statement and defending it is just plain ridiculous. |
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| BostonX |
| They'd kick me out of the country club if they saw me pulling in with a Buick Enclave! |
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| machz990 |
| I am quite happy with the fit and finish of my MDX. I have a late build and it was delivered on August 28th so maybe many of the fit issues were taken care of during the year. |
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