| Yorkie |
Hi - new to the forum and first post for me.
My wife drives an 03 and its time for an oil change and tranny fluid change so I decided to do the diff's and transfer case too.
I'm using all Amsoil products except for the diffs. They don't have a product recommended for them. Anyone know why that could be. What is special about the diff that it can't run their fluid? I plan on using the VTM4 Honda fluid. Has anyone else used anything different?
Regarding the transmission, is it recommended to flush? A guy at work has the same year odysey and he told me on his forums they say not to flush, as it can be more detrimental for some reason. Can I get some opinions on this.
Thanks. |
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| dj-mdx2 |
VTM-4 is the only fluid Acura recommends.
DO NOT flush the ATF. A triple drain and fill should be sufficient. More specific answers can be found by searching. |
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| phins2rt |
I have done both on mine. The first time at 30K the Acura dealer told me they no longer do fill and drains, only flushes. So I had them do the flush. Then I read on here and acurazine that flushes may not be the best thing for Honda trannys. But that was the only thing the dealer would do?:confused:
Anyway, at around 60K I did my own 3x drain and fill. I have had no problems thus far (knock on plood) but based on comments here and other places, I will stick with the drain and fill method. |
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| Yorkie |
quote:
Originally posted by phins2rt
Anyway, at around 60K I did my own 3x drain and fill.
Can you explain this in more detail. What is the interval between each drain?
What fluid did you use for your drain? |
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| phins2rt |
quote:
Originally posted by Yorkie
Can you explain this in more detail. What is the interval between each drain?
What fluid did you use for your drain?
Pretty simple really. Drain the tranny, refill with tranny fluid, drive around to get the tranny through all of the gears, repeat 2 more times.
I used ATF-Z1 fluid from Acura. I think mine was around $75 for a case of 12. |
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| richkuan |
quote:
Originally posted by phins2rt
flushes may not be the best thing for Honda trannys. But that was the only thing the dealer would do?:confused:
Well, who cares if it's good for your car or not? Only it's more profit for them. Stay away from that dealership.
3X drain and refill, as stated in the manual, is good enough. Stick to it. |
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| ardvarkus |
The term "transmission flush" got a bad rap years ago with Honda...ever since then all honda (ie Acura, Honda Independents, etc) seem to shy away from any kind of 'assisted fluid change'.
Sad.
A flush where you are using an outside pressure source to 'overdrive' the fluid into or out of the transmission, OR any use of 'solvents' or 'cleaners' MAY BE ILL ADVISED. These can 'loosen deposits' or 'damage seals' resulting in a worse off transmission (or in Honda's case, big time warranty claims... :) )
But a flush, that allows old fluid to drain, to be replaced by fully clean new fluid, all under the same pressures as the tranny already uses to circulate fluid is preferred (IMHO) .... why do a 'drain and fill' when you only can drain 50%? replacing ALL the old, contaminated fluid is always preferred.
All depends on who is doing the work...
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| lucy |
quote:
Originally posted by richkuan
Well, who cares if it's good for your car or not? Only it's more profit for them. Stay away from that dealership.
3X drain and refill, as stated in the manual, is good enough. Stick to it.
I agree. I once went to a dealership and saw an upset driver. His transmission was shot almost right after a "flush" at the dealership. He thought the flush killed the transmission and would like the dealer to take responsibility. But guess what the dealer told him? "We only recommend you to do the flush. You are the one that actually asked us to do it. We just did what you want." So basically the dealer was saying even if the flush killed the transmission, it's you, the owner, that want us to kill it, we, the dealer, just carryout your request. So, it's you, not us. It's pretty scary. But I don't know his car model and year, only it's an Acura.
One of my friends knows car pretty well. He told me, just by following the owner's manual for maintenance is good enough. So, if you can't find "flush" specified in the manual, don't do it because the car doesn't need it. It's something the shop/dealer created to make money, not to care your car. |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by lucy
.... just by following the owner's manual for maintenance is good enough.
Good advice- If you always trade your car in before the warranty is up.
Remember, that maintenance schedule is designed to get the car to the end of the manufacturer-paid warranty period.. NOT to keep the car running for 200k miles.
I will reiterate: there are many ways to "flush" a tranny, the best, which I recommend, is allowing the transmission oil pump to suck up brand new fluid while expelling all the old fluid.
I suppose if you are stuck with using jiffy lube or dealers you want to avoid 'flushes'...
Oh, back to the topic of maintenance schedules- I agree also that dealershps just make up 'maintenance plans' as they go along to help make them money. Sure, stick to the mfg plan if you know no better, but there are certain tasks that will help you car and not cost an arm and a leg. These are generally all lubricant changes.
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| mdxforever |
quote:
Originally posted by ardvarkus
.. the best, which I recommend, is allowing the transmission oil pump to suck up brand new fluid while expelling all the old fluid.
can you explain a little more about this type of flush ? is it identified by a specific name in the trade ? what should I ask the shop to check if they are able to do this type of a flush, or if they do just the "regular" flush ?
[late edit]: being an owner of two honda vehicles from exactly those year models that suffer from this problem, this subject of great interest to me. |
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| JP422 |
I work on cars pretty often, and have owned several Hondas... I like to try aftermarket stuff and recently I tried AMSOIL ATF in my wife's '03 Accord (50k miles)...Amsoil ATF claims they are fully compatible w/ Honda Z1.
All I did so far was drain and fill once. The difference was very noticeable. The shifting got SO smooth, in fact, it's hard to feel when the car is changing gears... almost like a cvt tranny. Even better is when I take it out of "P"... it used to somewhat clunk into drive or reverse, but now that's all gone. Super smooth .
I have an '08 MDX on order right now (being made right now as I type)... :2:
I'm definitely planning on using Amsoil for that too...
(i think it handles higher temps better than Z1 as well. Good
for towing)... I hope. |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by JP422
I work on cars pretty often, and have owned several Hondas... I like to try aftermarket stuff and recently I tried AMSOIL ATF in my wife's '03 Accord (50k miles)...Amsoil ATF claims they are fully compatible w/ Honda Z1.
All I did so far was drain and fill once. The difference was very noticeable. The shifting got SO smooth, in fact, it's hard to feel when the car is changing gears... almost like a cvt tranny. Even better is when I take it out of "P"... it used to somewhat clunk into drive or reverse, but now that's all gone. Super smooth .
I have an '08 MDX on order right now (being made right now as I type)... :2:
I'm definitely planning on using Amsoil for that too...
(i think it handles higher temps better than Z1 as well. Good
for towing)... I hope.
It isn't if Amsoil is better- it is that you may have no warranty if you have an unrelated tranny failure and Acura discovers 'unapproved fluid' was used. It isn't what Amsoil claims, it is what Acura states!
It is surprising that adding 40% new oil to the tranny would have such dramatic effects (no clunk, smoother shift,... taller, better looking and a bigger dcik) but the question is: was this amsoil or would a new fill of z1 do the same?
Folks get so twisted up with really marginal differences in these high end fluids. The difference between new Z1 and new anything is much smaller than the difference between any used fluid and any new fluid- in other words it matters less what you use and more that you change it often!
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| mdxforever |
ardvarkus,
I agree with everything you said. However, the question still remains as which fluid holds up longer. Maybe Amsoil does, since its a synthetic base.
For example, after doing a 'double' drain refill I experienced the same things jp422 did (well except for the shift out of P) but the honeymoon was over pretty quickly - barely 2-3k miles.
and I'd imagine as long as Amsoil has the Z1 'certification' (or whatever they call it), Honda should honor the warranty. |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by mdxforever
ardvarkus,
I agree with everything you said. However, the question still remains as which fluid holds up longer. Maybe Amsoil does, since its a synthetic base.
For example, after doing a 'double' drain refill I experienced the same things jp422 did (well except for the shift out of P) but the honeymoon was over pretty quickly - barely 2-3k miles.
and I'd imagine as long as Amsoil has the Z1 'certification' (or whatever they call it), Honda should honor the warranty.
Abslutely agree- synthetics may hold up longer, and may tolerate temperature better. But in my book these are distinctions without consequence: Any fluid is so degraded by say 30k miles that any 'extra' that synthetic buys you from 30k to 40k, lets say, is really never used!
If there was some 'singular figure of merit' that we could plot versus mileage and find that Z1 and amsoil have significant separation at say 20k miles, or even at zero miles, and this is maintained over the life of the fill, I could buy into it- but as I've seen with most use, the damage to the fluid accumulates over time, and if you change it soon enough it isn't a factor.
Of course those of us who argue this stuff are the least likely to let fluid go 60, 80k miles between changes- hence the least likely to need a synthetic.
I always planned to go to a synthetic at the expiration of the 100k warranty, but jsut never got around to it. Maybe next flush...I'm at 150k on my 01, original tranny and all that. |
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| mdxforever |
I was almost ready for Amsoil but a couple of UOA's on BITOG weren't very exciting, so that plan is shelved for now.
Did I hear that Redline recently introduced a Z1 spec fluid ?
It is also rumoured that honda changed something in its brew for Z1 when they switched again to exclude Z1 for cvt's. They haven't been able to make up their mind on that one. |
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| JP422 |
or whatever toots your horn...
I am simply stating my experiences. Sure a Z1 fluid change MIGHT have given the same results.. but in my personal experiences, that didnt happen. (I did a tranny flush for my ex-gf's '00 accord @50k w/ Honda Z1... same thing.. just drain and fill once), and no big difference. Just peace of mind. ( I am aware that these are different generation cars too)
On my wife's '03 accord, it feels great, and it's been 12k miles so far, and I still am thinking about how amazed I am of it's smooth shifting every single time I'm driving that car. I wasn't expecting much difference.
As for the synthetic oils... yes I am a diehard fan of them... for everything. I have rebuilt several engines and everytime, the
synthetic oils have left the engine block and heads very clean, no varnishing, staining, sludging, etc. If I can use a compatible fluid that performs better, or has higher tolerance (temps) or longer life, then yes, I'm going to try it. The last motor I built is a 1.8L Audi motor that makes 320 whp on 91 pump gas, for daily driving, and I am only going to use the best performing oils for it (Neo, Redline, Amsoil, Motul, etc). I also tow boats, car, and jetski's... so my truck is only getting syntetic ATF that can handle more heat (for extra insurance). (Also Amsoil ATF)
Anyway, you can use whatever makes you happy, and my comment to this tranny fluid drain thread, is that Amsoil worked
great instead of Z1... at least for me.
btw.. I am not an Amsoil dealer.. I just use many products, and
had great experiences/results with them. :1: |
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| Yorkie |
Well, its been some time now since I did the change over and I thought I'd let you know my thoughts.
I did Signature Series motor oil, which is their best and slightly more than Mobil1 but far, far superior to it. I've never used an oil that I could actually feel a difference before. Just from seat of the pants testing, I can feel the engine idles and accelerates smoother and it is quieter. Plus this oil has a really long drain interval so it actually ends up costing me less in the long run!
I did the 3x drain and fill as you suggested with Amsoil ATF. That also made noticable improvement in shifting smoothness.
I used VTM fluid because Amsoil does not make a fluid for that application but I put severe gear oil in the transfer case but thats not something I can notice a difference with.
The engine starts much easier too in the cold -30c mornings.
Overall very very happy with the Amsoil products and I'm a customer for life. Slightly more expensive than off the shelf type stuff but very high quality in my opinion.
Its hard to find it retail but there are lots of independent dealers. I used these guys www.synthetic-direct.ca because I'm up in Canada.
Thanks for your advice on the tranny change. |
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| ardvarkus |
SPAM ALERT
quote:
Originally posted by Yorkie
Well, its been some time now since I did the change over and I thought I'd let you know my thoughts.
I did Signature Series motor oil, which is their best and slightly more than Mobil1 but far, far superior to it. I've never used an oil that I could actually feel a difference before. Just from seat of the pants testing, I can feel the engine idles and accelerates smoother and it is quieter. Plus this oil has a really long drain interval so it actually ends up costing me less in the long run!
BS. "feel a difference".... Bull. this is just silly.
If you don't follow Acura's intervals you void the warranty
quote:
I did the 3x drain and fill as you suggested with Amsoil ATF. That also made noticable improvement in shifting smoothness.
Right. You void the warranty by not using mfgs fluid
quote:
I used VTM fluid because Amsoil does not make a fluid for that application but I put severe gear oil in the transfer case but thats not something I can notice a difference with.
Spam. There is no transfer case
quote:
Overall very very happy with the Amsoil products and I'm a customer for life. Slightly more expensive than off the shelf type stuff but very high quality in my opinion.
Its hard to find it retail but there are lots of independent dealers. I used these guys www.synthetic-direct.ca because I'm up in Canada.
Thanks for your advice on the tranny change.
So, you run the website you linked to, right? |
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| pianoman41 |
quote:
Originally posted by ardvarkus
Right. You void the warranty by not using mfgs fluid
As long as the fluids meet the manufacturers' specs it does not void the warranty to use aftermarket fluids. |
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| ardvarkus |
quote:
Originally posted by pianoman41
As long as the fluids meet the manufacturers' specs it does not void the warranty to use aftermarket fluids.
True.
There is no ATF that fully meets Honda/Acura specs... at least last time I checked the Z1 was the only approved fluid for tranny
There is also no VTM fluid other than Hondas.
But yes, **IF** the fluid (or part for that matter) meets spec it cannot 'void' the warranty. |
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| JP422 |
So it seems that we (who actually tried it) know that certain fluids can perform better than others... You can interpret this however you want... or try them if you want. Nobody is saying that it is the only way to go. We are just stating our experiences.
As for warranty issues... Amsoil claims that their universal ATF is a compatible replacement for Honda Z1. That's good enough for me to try it... however, it just happend to be that my Accord is at 50k miles (warranty is ended) so I had no problem trying it... (and still amazed at how smooth shifting is)... however, I am not comfortable using it in our new MDX. I plan to use oem fluids (besides synth engine oil). Maybe after the warranty is over, I'll use the Amsoil ATF in it. This is just what makes me comfortable.
We only have 500 miles on our new X, so I don't know how long the oil change intervals are, but if they are too long, I plan to change the oil filter once at 50-60% "oil life" (after the change to synth oil).
This is cheap insurance, and again, what makes me comfortable.
(plus since Honda standardized their oil filter, I have a good stock of them in my cabinet, and can use them on both our Honda and Acura). |
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| Ceenit |
Intreresting thread revived.
I have no issues with aftermarket products and agree that many of them can provide improved performance than the mfg spec. I strongly agree however, that when your in warranty period, keep with mft recommended fluids when recommended (ESPECIALLY when it comes to MDX trannies). Don't even give the dealership the excuse they could be looking for.
But as several have posted, those of us who pay attention to these threads 'rarely' every get to the point in their MDX that they could ever see much actual benefit of 'better' fluids. I do think there is benefit for certain vehicles that regularly are pushed to their limits (track cars or off roading)
For those who can feel it by the 'seat of their pants'. I have sometimes felt this too but always chalked it up to being psychological versus physical.....or maybe I just need better pants :).
Point of clarification....there is a transfer case on '03 and newer trannies. This was part of the redesigh. '01-'02 just used tranny fluid that was shared between transfer case and tranny, '03-'06 trannies have a separate housing which uses gear oil instead of tranny fluid. |
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| jhue |
quote:
Originally posted by Ceenit
Point of clarification....there is a transfer case on '03 and newer trannies. This was part of the redesigh. '01-'02 just used tranny fluid that was shared between transfer case and tranny, '03-'06 trannies have a separate housing which uses gear oil instead of tranny fluid.
They call it a "transfer assembly". To me, a real transfer case has an input shaft and two output shafts, and two speeds (for rock crawling). The MDX "transfer assembly" just sorta hangs off the transmission and provides a single output shaft going to the rear, and no low range. |
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